^^^ Yup and with the GE Global Research center looming across the highway, that little stretch of 235 is going to have a completely different vibe in a year.

They're bricking up the portion with scaffolding in that picture. Looks great.

That portion of 235 is the most massed section of interstate in the entire city.

http://i.imgur.com/xnUUkk5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Sft0bOE.jpg

This place is really coming together quick:

11428 11429

It better... They plan to starting moving people in before the end of the year.

It better... They plan to starting moving people in before the end of the year.

Wow, didn't realize it was that soon!

A few more pics from yesterday.

11435

11435

11437

They have some pricing info coming out now [Craigslist].

They have many different floorplans, but generally looks like:
$1550 for 994sqft 2 bedroom
$1390 for 790sqft 1 bedroom

Move-in set for January 2016.

good golly...

The impact of this one will be interesting to watch, as it should be a boost to both Deep Deuce and AA.

It's just, I paid less for more at The Classen...

Yes, will be a nice bridge between the two districts and help them grow together.

Regarding the rents, pretty typical for the newer apartments downtown these days. In fact Maywood II, which was purposely built a bit cheaper to keep rents down, have already raised their rents to be almost on par with Level, Mosaic, DD Apartments, the Edge, etc.

Very, very curious to see if there is any ripple in the rates once Mosaic, LIFT and Metropolitan all hit the market in close order. I suspect it will take a bit of time to absorb all the new units then rents will start trending up once more.

I know Metropolitan already has a bunch of commitments.

If I hadn't just purchased a house, I would have taken a long look at these. Especially since they are located a good distance between the DD, MT, and BT. The rates don't seem too bad.

The high rents explain why they wanted to open ASAP while the local developers move very slow. Right now there is so much pent-up demand that they can easily get these rents.

Those rents are on par with pretty much everything new opening up in this area and most Midtown Renaissance units (which don't offer the amenities that these larger complexes have). It'll be interesting to see how rents are effected over the next year or two once these other complexes come on line.... or if there truly is that big a demand for downtown, rental living.

My prediction is that all the new units get absorbed in about 6 to 9 months and that rents hold for about a year, then start to climb again.

Here is a quick summary of all the units in the pipeline:

Around the first of the year:
Metropolitan 330
LIFT 327
Mosaic 97

2016
Steelyard 349
The Frank 45
Maywood II 160

2017
Page Woodson 136
Residences at 21c 320
Haven New Build 66
Clayco? 253

My prediction is that all the new units get absorbed in about 6 to 9 months and that rents hold for about a year, then start to climb again.

Here is a quick summary of all the units in the pipeline:

Around the first of the year:
Metropolitan 330
LIFT 327
Mosaic 97

2016
Steelyard 349
The Frank 45
Maywood II 160

2017
Page Woodson 136
Residences at 21c 320
Haven New Build 66
Clayco? 253

If that doesn't get a grocery store down here I don't know what will.

Those rents are on par with pretty much everything new opening up in this area and most Midtown Renaissance units (which don't offer the amenities that these larger complexes have). It'll be interesting to see how rents are effected over the next year or two once these other complexes come on line.... or if there truly is that big a demand for downtown, rental living.

Sure. The locals and anyone else whose currently got a dog in the race is benefiting from a market that still isn't building product fast enough. Demand is outpacing supply. Developers like McKown pretend to be cautious and concerned at growth to try to discourage more out of state players getting involved. On one hand with a developer like McKown who WILL execute the best possible project, that rent gap allows him to pull off a project that much more advanced. However, for guys like "SoSA Heights," it does allow a developer to do a simple flip and then take advantage of premium rents..

From a macro perspective however (for instance, how the city should be looking at this), we are nowhere close to building the amount of downtown housing we need. We had a market study back in 2008 or 2007 (outdated, lowball demand analysis) that we aren't even keeping up with.

Demand is outpacing supply. Developers like McKown pretend to be cautious and concerned at growth to try to discourage more out of state players getting involved. On one hand with a developer like McKown who WILL execute the best possible project, that rent gap allows him to pull off a project that much more advanced.

That's an interesting point. Never thought about that tactic.

But I'm not sure I'd credit McKown with always executing the best possible project. Personally, I think a lot of what he's done could have been much better with a few simple material changes, better landscaping, taking more care in construction, and maybe a little more consideration for the neighborhood as a whole. On paper I think the Met looks better, but you never know until a couple of years go by before you really know the quality of the build (or at least I don't. I have no contractor experience). I do like what he's doing with the Plow though.

Sure. The locals and anyone else whose currently got a dog in the race is benefiting from a market that still isn't building product fast enough. Demand is outpacing supply. Developers like McKown pretend to be cautious and concerned at growth to try to discourage more out of state players getting involved. On one hand with a developer like McKown who WILL execute the best possible project, that rent gap allows him to pull off a project that much more advanced. However, for guys like "SoSA Heights," it does allow a developer to do a simple flip and then take advantage of premium rents..

From a macro perspective however (for instance, how the city should be looking at this), we are nowhere close to building the amount of downtown housing we need. We had a market study back in 2008 or 2007 (outdated, lowball demand analysis) that we aren't even keeping up with.

Hadn't thought about that. While most of the early development has been local, we're starting to see national groups come in (Milhaus).... barring something unforseen in the market and the assumed success of these developments, I can imagine it's only a matter of time before more national groups move in.

Milhaus will definitely be doing more and this development is by a big group out of Houston.

If Clacyo can ever get their act together, they would also be building multi-family downtown.

That's three pretty big players to come into the market in just the last couple of years.

We all want to support local businesses, but sometimes the local market produces lower quality product that creates supply and drives down prices. We haven't always been competitive price wise with what can be developed in other markets. So if a non-OKC developer has an opportunity here or elsewhere they will usually take the highest known return with the least risk. The nationals enter when the costs to enter are so low as the change the risk/reward ratio, or the projected returns do. With some locals upping their game they have shown that they can produce higher rent and so the nationals get interested. The strong demand for nationally price competitive units reduces their perceived risk.

I've said this before, but I really do get the feeling that developers are waiting to see how Metropolitan + LIFT + Mosaic + The Frank affect the market (and potentially Maywood II + Steelyard). If occupancy rates are still overflowing after those 3/4 (+2?) come on the market, then I wouldn't be surprised if at least another 1,000 units get announced by the 2nd quarter of 2017.

I've said this before, but I really do get the feeling that developers are waiting to see how Metropolitan + LIFT + Mosaic + The Frank affect the market (and potentially Maywood II + Steelyard). If occupancy rates are still overflowing after those 3/4 (+2?) come on the market, then I wouldn't be surprised if at least another 1,000 units get announced by the 2nd quarter of 2017.

If you're reactive vs. proactive though you may be fighting an uphill battle.

Right, takes at least two years to get something to the market and lots more time before that to put together an acquisition, financing, design, etc.

Waiting to see how the market does just puts you 3 years behind everyone else and by that time the market is likely to be completely different anyway.

New urbanism is here to stay and although there are always ups and downs in any real estate market, investments in these ares are very good long-term bets.

Right, takes at least two years to get something to the market and lots more time before that to put together an acquisition, financing, design, etc.

Doesn't that depend on the developer though? And perhaps it's the banks that are waiting to see how well the market absorbs all this new, expensive (by OKC's standards) lease-based housing.



Waiting to see how the market does just puts you 3 years behind everyone else and by that time the market is likely to be completely different anyway.

New urbanism is here to stay and although there are always ups and downs in any real estate market, investments in these ares are very good long-term bets.

I tend to agree and would personally think that, with the right plan, you could (re)develop every vacant or under-utilized lot downtown within the next 5 years and the whole thing would go off without a hitch. I have no doubt that new urbanism works and is in demand.

Unfortunately, the people with money seem to be not so prescient.

Off topic, but can i briefly rant? I'm hearing a lot of people bemoan the high price points of the downtown housing that is coming online. While I understand the frustration, I think people have some naive thoughts on this:

1) There is an ample supply of affordable housing in OKC. 20 years ago if you wanted to live downtown, cheaply, you could easily afford to live in the various flophouses in Midtown or in Classen 10 Penn. Today you can cheaply rent or buy in Capital Hill or numerous other neighborhoods in close proximity to downtown. But those people complaining about the price of housing are, by and large, not living there because...those neighborhoods are not seen as desirable! While I acknowledge that it is a chicken and the egg situation as to how a neighborhood like Midtown or Deep Deuce becomes gentrified, the fact remains that the main reason that the current "desirable" neighborhoods are desirable is because they are nice, and they are nice because developers built expensive buildings there or did expensive rehabs on older buildings there. No expensive buildings and the area is not so desirable. And expensive buildings are, you guessed it, expensive to live in.

So what people who complain about the price of downtown housing are really saying is not, "I want to live downtown but its too expensive." Rather, they are saying, "I want to live in or near all the expensive buildings but I don't want it to be expensive to do so." This is obviously an impossibility.

2) There is also supply and demand to consider, and maybe this can be some solace to those priced out of the market. Let's imagine that we have a world where people want to live in the downtown area of OKC just as badly as in the real world. But in this imaginary world it is impossible to build downtown apartments or fancy houses in SOSA, either due to zoning, economics, lava-filled crevasses, etc. Where are all the people who want to live downtown going to live? In the existing housing. In this imaginary world existing housing and apartment stock in C10P, Gatewood, Mesta, MLK, Capital Hill, etc. becomes especially sought after, as it is literally the only option for people who want to live near downtown. So prices in these areas would skyrocket (much more so then has admittedly already occurred in the real world).

In short, without the high-price downtown housing that has been built, you have several thousand high income people who, instead of buying an overpriced flat downtown, are buying a cottage in Classen 10 Penn and putting in granite countertops and a backyard pool. What does this do to prices in those neighborhoods?

What i am getting at is that while yes, most of the downtown/midtown housing is high-end, the presence of this high-end housing serves as a release valve on overall demand, keeping prices more manageable in the rest of the inner core. So take solace in that, my strapped-for-cash friends! Maybe you can't afford to live in the Metropolitan, but the existence of the Metropolitan keeps you from being priced out of your more modest but still decently nice apartment in the Paseo/your house in Gatewood/etc.

That may or may not have been directed at my initial post about the rates, but either way, for the record, my point in bringing up the rent rates had zero to do with affordability, vs value for what you're paying.

I lived in the Classen for 6+ years and now live in the Regency the last 2+ years. My rent has always been north of 1500. I can afford to live in any of the places downtown. I'm not actually caring about the rent rates in and of themselves. What I care about is, I don't feel like some of the newer places coming online have the same level of amenities (Regency doesn't really fit here perhaps, more referring to the Classen in that regard) for the money. I'm quite possibly wrong in some cases, but having toured some of the newer places, I'm not sure I am in all cases (Maywood I in particular). There's nothing wrong with wanting value for my money, especially when I'm spending a lot of it.

That may or may not have been directed at my initial post about the rates, but either way, for the record, my point in bringing up the rent rates had zero to do with affordability, vs value for what you're paying.

I lived in the Classen for 6+ years and now live in the Regency the last 2+ years. My rent has always been north of 1500. I can afford to live in any of the places downtown. I'm not actually caring about the rent rates in and of themselves. What I care about is, I don't feel like some of the newer places coming online have the same level of amenities (Regency doesn't really fit here perhaps, more referring to the Classen in that regard) for the money. I'm quite possibly wrong in some cases, but having toured some of the newer places, I'm not sure I am in all cases (Maywood I in particular). There's nothing wrong with wanting value for my money, especially when I'm spending a lot of it.

Honestly this was not directed at you, personally. It was more a reaction to a lot of things I've heard around here and on Steve's chats. But I did cram my rant into this particualr thread because you gave me an opening. So, thanks?

:-)

And to add to that excellent post by DoctorTaco, it has to be said there are many more affordable options even in the 'nicer areas' of downtown.

There are older units and studios and houses in C10P are still pretty affordable. The area just north of OCU is still stupid cheap and there are a bunch of inexpensive pockets as well (Capitol Hill, near NE side, etc.) Or, get a roommate or two.

DT is right when he says people are mainly complaining about the prices of the new, nice places but what on earth do they expect? Those waiting for someone to build something new with a decent amount of space in a good area and then only pay $800 / month are going to be waiting a long time. Prices are only going to go up, not down.

In fact, it wasn't that long ago that Jefferson Park and the Paseo were super affordable. If you wait until something 'comes up' you are going to pay for that. Want to pay less, you have to make compromises but that's true of every single other thing there is to buy.

There seems to be this mentality that people are somehow owed reasonable rent in a great location. The world doesn't work that way and never will. These factors have been in play for decades in bigger cities and OKC is just finally joining the party.

And to add to that excellent post by DoctorTaco, it has to be said there are many more affordable options even in the 'nicer areas' of downtown.

In fact, it wasn't that long ago that Jefferson Park and the Paseo were super affordable. If you wait until something 'comes up' you are going to pay for that. Want to pay less, you have to make compromises but that's true of every single other thing there is to buy.


The Paseo and Jefferson Park are gentrifying fast. 8-plexes that were boarded up a few years ago are being renovated and rents are going for $1200+. I think Classen Ten Penn will be next to join the party.

One thing that makes downtown OKC attractive is other than Deep Deuce, the urban core doesn't really have a fully gentrified urban neighborhood yet. By that, I mean a neighborhood where land value has skyrocketed to the point middle-income people have been priced out. You can still find deals in most OKC's best neighborhoods. Barring a significant economic downtown, that probably will be history in ten years. Try finding affordable housing in the "hip" areas of Charlotte, Denver, Austin, etc. It isn't necessarily "fair", but its economics.

In bigger cities, you not only can't find affordable rent in the good areas, you can't find it anywhere near those areas.

All you have to do is go outside downtown OKC 2 or 3 miles -- within easy biking distance -- and there are a thousand affordable options, both to rent and buy.

People choose to live in Edmond and Norman and Yukon because they want to, not because there aren't plenty of affordable options closer in.

One other point...

Even developments like Maywood Apartments end up with higher rents simply due to market conditions.

It was specifically planned and built to be on the lower end of the pricing spectrum but if you check their rents now, they are pretty darn close to all the other newer complexes.

Market forces set rents, not developers and owners.

I think the best possible scenario is that rents stay flat for a year or so while a bunch of new units open up. But then... You have tons of stuff coming, like the streetcar and central park and more office space & workers and tons more bars, restaurants and amenities. Things are only going to get better and better and rents will always follow.

I still laugh when people gawk at $250/sf for downtown for-sale.

Especially if you can afford it. I really don't think we're even a decade away from the Brownstones selling for closer to $400/sf.

I think at some point in the next 5 years there is going to be a massive "over night" jump in values for everything in the interstate loop. Something like a 15% to 20% jump over a 6-month period, on top of the normal activity. If a slow down doesn't happen, everyone, banks included, are going to jump on the urban-core bandwagon. You've already got investment, yes…but I think everything is so tepid because a bunch of buyers and builders and banks are still skeptical of the viability of the business model.

I just hope OKC can get out from under the speculative squatting that has plagued us so much over the last 15 years.

A unit in the Centennial building just sold for around ~$372/sf

Anything in the downtown or even near north neighborhoods of Columbus is going for around $400-500 / SF. It is true that this economic recovery has been uniquely uneven and inequitable. Real estate prices in particular have risen faster than anything else since the bottom of the recession. (of course they were disproportionately impacted as well)

Milhaus will definitely be doing more and this development is by a big group out of Houston.

If Clacyo can ever get their act together, they would also be building multi-family downtown.

That's three pretty big players to come into the market in just the last couple of years.

Which is basically nothing. Three national developers (potentially). Puts us in a league with Greenville SC and Little Rock AR.

Truth is downtown OKC development is a uniquely locally-driven enterprise, for better or worse. On one end of the spectrum you have the Corsair and Brewer brothers, and on the other end of the spectrum you have Fred Jones and Bob Howard, totally committed to pulling off innovative and unique developments.

There is a lot to blame for this. OKC real estate speculation is intense. Much is talked about, little ever happens, and it's been this way ever since The Factory or even the String of Pearls. We have a mystified real estate market and low expectations, which is the perfect recipe for locals to get away with practically anything.

There really isn't much community leadership in the realm of downtown development, either. What leadership there is comes more in the form of enabling the race to the bottom, and not empowering a race to the top. If you're a nationally-based firm, surveying local landscapes against each other, you really want some of that? This is why you see so few taking the bait (the uniquely positive market indicators in OKC).

Luckily, on a certain level, all of these pressures that form a low pressure system over downtown development (with the effect of keeping the pace of development slow and locally-driven), certainly is a positive in terms of ensuring rapid absorption of what does get built. Pros and cons of course, but IMO it's hard not to fixate on the reality that OKC could do so much better.

Did some urban exploring this weekend. The units that are close to being complete have very high-quality finishes: nice cabinetry, quartz and granite countertops, etc.

Also, holy cow, does this project make an impression along both Oklahoma and I-235. What density and built right to the street.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/metro092715.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/metro092715a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/metro092715b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/metro092715c.jpg


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http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/metro092715e.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/metro092715g.jpg

Impressive! Thanks for all the photos!

Impressive! Thanks for all the photos!

Seriously. We all benefit when Pete comes to town. :)

Also, holy cow, does this project make an impression along both Oklahoma and I-235. What density and built right to the street.

Driving down/up 235 it does make an impression, especially with GE going up on the other side. Pretty neat.

From the gram:

https://igcdn-photos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t51.2885-15/e35/11356592_490990754407907_1708124587_n.jpg

That was breakneck speed.

I'm guessing the lawsuit involving the name fell through?

I'm guessing the lawsuit involving the name fell through?

I'm guessing they're just counting on the lawsuit moving at a Rick Dowell pace. Should be filed sometime before 2030.

I'm guessing they're just counting on the lawsuit moving at a Rick Dowell pace. Should be filed sometime before 2030.

He first has to get the City to pitch in a few million.

I'm guessing they're just counting on the lawsuit moving at a Rick Dowell pace. Should be filed sometime before 2030.

Seems a little too quick, in my opinion.

I would pay money to watch a Bomasada v. Dowell smack down.

This project is really shaping up very nicely.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/metro111215.jpg

Will probably be completed before the Research Center across the highway is done?

(awaits copious disgruntledness regarding power lines)

Will probably be completed before the Research Center across the highway is done?

Definitely.

They'll be moving their first tenants in within the next two months then finish the rest in phases. Looks fantastic in person.

I am so excited imagining the amount of people that will be in this complex. There will actually be foot traffic all the way down Oklahoma Ave.

Now if only we can get LR to sell that property @ 6th and Oklahoma. And redevelop all that garbage civil engineering buildings @ 5th. And get something going with the triangle gas station/parkinglot/blacktop across the street from it.

And redevelop all that garbage civil engineering buildings @ 5th. And get something going with the triangle gas station/parkinglot/blacktop across the street from it.

Redevelop the office of one of the largest civil engineering firms in the city just because you don't like it? I agree it COULD be something better there, but to call it "garbage" is pretty lame.

I'm guessing the lawsuit involving the name fell through?

I guess I'm out of the loop. What's this about a lawsuit over the name?

The Met

https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xtf1/t51.2885-15/e35/p480x480/12338770_754791171293905_1200270304_n.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/metro121315a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/metro121315b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/metro121315c.jpg

12099

12100

They have about a third of the sidewalk along
Oklahoma poured, and after 5:00 today they were
acid washing some of the masonry North of the parking
garage entrance.