Capstone Affluent Strategies CEO Pastor interested in NHL's Coyotes - L.A. Biz (http://www.bizjournals.com/losangeles/news/2013/04/01/pastor-expresses-interest-in-coyotes.html)

Yes please

Could OKC support a second major league franchise?

Could OKC support a second major league franchise?
No, especially not NHL. I love the NHL and would love to have an NHL team here, but it's not happening. Not enough hockey support in this town to sustain anything. Purely a pipe dream.

Could OKC support a second major league franchise?

No.

Seriously, can we just enjoy the Thunder and what they've done for the city instead of chasing something new that won't be supported?

I can guarantee you, the effect of a city going from 0 to 1 professional team is FAR greater than from 1 to 2.

I'm a huge hockey fan. I type this as I sit in my office looking at my shelves of Blazer, Barons and Colorado Avalanche memorabilia. Still, OKC doesn't need and couldn't support an NHL team. If not for the NHL teams having to have farm teams the Barons probably wouldn't still be here.

We had similar comments re the NBA in OKC when Hornets temporarily relocated here, now look, LOL.

look at the attendance for the barons its horrible.

Hockey in OKC right now is a bad idea.

In 20 years, it may be another story. So few in this state care about hockey. It's not really in schools, it's never talked about on the college level, it's never played on television, and the worst thing about hockey, is that the season happens at the exact same time that the NBA season occurs.

I understand the Blazers attendance sucking...that was just crap hockey. But until we can get the Baron's attendance up, there's no way to think that we can support an NHL team.

Thought the NHL in general was suffering from expansion fatigue, and struggling to get any kind of decent TV rights contract...no offense to the hockey fans, but I'm not sure why we'd want to risk that right now.

Generally, rule of thumb that's come up repeatedly in the NFL threads is 1 pro sports franchise per 1M people. The greater OKC area is around 1.3M right now, so supporting any other pro franchise right now is a pretty dicey idea IMHO, and particularly so with the NHL.

Hockey in OKC right now is a bad idea.

Disagree. Major league professional hockey in OKC right now is a bad idea (although I think that's what you meant -- it's just that I love watching live hockey and wouldn't want it that thought to be agreed with like the "you're going the wrong way" comment in Planes, Trains and Automobiles).


I understand the Blazers attendance sucking...that was just crap hockey. But until we can get the Baron's attendance up, there's no way to think that we can support an NHL team.

Blazers attendance did NOT suck -- until there was a better competitor for the live sports dollar. The Blazers attendance (at its peak) was often much better than some NHL attendance. Agreed, we're talking about comparing the Blazers average attendance with the Hartford Whalers average attendance for the same year, but it's still a fact that Blazers attendance set records for that level of hockey. There are many that would say that Blazers attendance numbers was attributable to give-aways and as such made the Blazers a financial disaster. I wouldn't know about that. I paid for every game I attended and loved it. I don't know anybody who received free tickets except throught the occasional radio give-away, etc. Even the Thunder give away a few tickets here and there. Further, I would hesitate to call Blazers hockey "crap" hockey. Live hockey with a regular stable of players that don't change out with the host club (non-farm club -- what do you call who the Edmonton Oilers are to the OKC Barons?) every other week is a lot of fun to watch. Agreed, the Barons are on a different level (and we pay for that in higher tickets) and NHL talent is a much better level, as well, but you really pay for that, too. Also, Barons attendance IS increasing and they are only in their second (or third) year of play with a year sabbatical of live hockey in OKC.
I cannot conceive that OKC could support a second major league team at this time and certainly would not want to have to pay NHL prices to watch live hockey.

We had similar comments re the NBA in OKC when Hornets temporarily relocated here, now look, LOL.I hope you're being sarcastic. If not, this is completely different. The Hornets attracted a huge following. Proving that OKC was ready for the NBA. The Barons, and AHL hockey is good hockey, would barely fill the center sections of the lower bowl if everyone sat together.

I went to a fight once and a hockey game broke out.

I think we need a decent amount of growth before we could seriously look at supporting a second pro league. We need to re-establish the hockey fervor that we once had, and I think we need more people and money so that we're not relying on the entirely same crowd.

I think we need a decent amount of growth before we could seriously look at supporting a second pro league. We need to re-establish the hockey fervor that we once had, and I think we need more people and money so that we're not relying on the entirely same crowd.

Most studies show that a city needs around a million people per pro franchise (of course there are variables). So, OKC needs approximately 700,000 more people to support another pro franchise.

We had similar comments re the NBA in OKC when Hornets temporarily relocated here, now look, LOL.

The NHL is not the NBA. The next pro-sports franchise OKC goes after should be the NFL, and that won't be viable for another decade or two.

Most studies show that a city needs around a million people per pro franchise (of course there are variables). So, OKC needs approximately 700,000 more people to support another pro franchise.

It may be a decent rule of thumb, but to be honest, I don't know how exact I'd believe that is. When it comes to sports, not every person is the equal. You don't just need bodies in a city, you need bodies with a ton of money. If an arena was never more than a third full, but you had the money to fill out all of the press boxes, than you'd probably be viable.

People need to remember that OKC is a sports crazed city. 1.75M is probably the target for OKC to start looking at another sports franchise.

I'd rather get a viable opera company before another sports franchise...but that's probably just me...

The NHL is not the NBA. The next pro-sports franchise OKC goes after should be the NFL, and that won't be viable for another decade or two.

... or five...

if an NHL team should come to Oklahoma, i think it should be Tulsa... I don't think the NHL would get the draw it deserves in OKC with us having the Thunder. But i think it might do fairly well in Tulsa, and would finally give them their Pro Sports Team

Honestly I can't see the NHL succeeding here unless the owner was willing to lose his shirt for his hobby.

It may be a decent rule of thumb, but to be honest, I don't know how exact I'd believe that is. When it comes to sports, not every person is the equal. You don't just need bodies in a city, you need bodies with a ton of money. If an arena was never more than a third full, but you had the money to fill out all of the press boxes, than you'd probably be viable.

Which is why OKC should be more cautious. OKC is probably very low in per capita wealth compared to other cities. So, OKC may need more than that 2 million figure.

The NBA and NHL season's occur at the same time, one of the team's attendance numbers would be affected.

OKC can get one in 20 years. Right now would be a bad idea.

Maybe Tulsa could get one sooner. That way the BOK Center could have a tenant. The Tulsa Coyotes don't sound too bad.

if an NHL team should come to Oklahoma, i think it should be Tulsa... I don't think the NHL would get the draw it deserves in OKC with us having the Thunder. But i think it might do fairly well in Tulsa, and would finally give them their Pro Sports Team

I agree. Tulsa is in a much better position to have an NFL franchise than OKC is to have a second pro franchise... It's not even close really.

People need to remember that OKC is a sports crazed city. 1.75M is probably the target for OKC to start looking at another sports franchise.

I'd rather get a viable opera company before another sports franchise...but that's probably just me...

Maybe Maps 4 can include a new NFL-ready stadium.

I agree that since the NBA and NHL have their seasons at the same time, bringing an NHL franchise to OKC would hurt the Thunder. Tulsa should go after the NHL.

i agree. Tulsa is in a much better position to have an nfl franchise than okc is to have a second pro franchise... It's not even close really.

Three letters: CLR

Maybe Maps 4 can include a new NFL-ready stadium.

I agree that since the NBA and NHL have their seasons at the same time, bringing an NHL franchise to OKC would hurt the Thunder. Tulsa should go after the NHL.


The next pro franchise needs to be an NFL team. Maybe by 2020 if OKC continues growing and attracts a few major corporations that can purchase a large number of suites that NFL teams drool over.

What was the size of Charlotte when the NFL came in? What about Nashville's population when the Oilers/Titans came to town. OKC will be there before too much longer.

can we please not turn this back into the NFL in OKC thread? again as for the NHL, while i love hockey, i think that Tulsa at this point and time would be a better fit, plus would still bring money and good PR for the State.

if an NHL team should come to Oklahoma, i think it should be Tulsa... I don't think the NHL would get the draw it deserves in OKC with us having the Thunder. But i think it might do fairly well in Tulsa, and would finally give them their Pro Sports Team

That is similar to what occurred in North Carolina - Charlotte had the Hornets and Panthers; the Hurricanes went to Raleigh. Might work if Tulsa has someone willing to lay out the cash like the Bennett consortium did for the Thunder.

Personally I would prefer a MLS franchise in OKC - build that combination soccer stadium with attached 5000 seat arena concept on the cotton site that was posted in another thread. If I had mega millions to spend I would do it!

It would be very difficult for OKC to support both the NBA and the NHL. We just don't have the population base. We're currently at 1.3 million in the metropolitan area--we need to exceed 2 million to even think about a second major professional franchise.

Tulsa could support an NHL franchise with the help of Oklahoma City; they currently have an arena which could house an NHL franchise.

Something in the neighborhood of an MLS (Major League Soccer) franchise would be great for Oklahoma City in about five years if our population exceeds 1.4 million. Edmond would be a good temporary home until some kind of 20,000 to 25,000 seat soccer and football specific stadium is built.

MAPS IV will have some kind of stadium on the ballot.

Item #10 Football Stadium of MAPS III proposal was left off: City of Oklahoma City | 2010 State of the City (http://www.okc.gov/council/mayor/state_of_city/2010/index.html)

The hockey fans here in OKC are good ones...but there arent enough. Half the seats at the Barons games I got to are empty, I cant see it happening soon. But Im a die-hard hockey fan so Im all for it! BTW, Go BRUINS!

The hockey fans here in OKC are good ones...but there arent enough. Half the seats at the Barons games I got to are empty, I cant see it happening soon. But Im a die-hard hockey fan so Im all for it! BTW, Go BRUINS!


Again, the Barons are not the same as the NHL. As I said 20 years ago when people were saying that we couldn't support an NBA team because the Calvary were only drawing 5,000 a game.

Sports fans in Oklahoma City-Tulsa area, you think small and therefore that's where you will end up.

Who would have ever thought that Oklahoma City would be a viable NBA market averaging 18,203 per game for the last two seasons. This puts us in the top 12 of the franchises in the NBA and competitive among the smaller markets like New Orleans, Memphis, Indianapolis, Sacramento and Salt Lake City.

ESPN NBA Attendance 2012-13: http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

MLS would be an ideal fit for Tulsa in so many ways. I'd love a MLS team anywhere in the state.

Well the only thing that's good about the half full barons games is that they are all hockey fans and not there just to be seen

The next pro franchise needs to be an NFL team. Maybe by 2020 if OKC continues growing and attracts a few major corporations that can purchase a large number of suites that NFL teams drool over.

What was the size of Charlotte when the NFL came in? What about Nashville's population when the Oilers/Titans came to town. OKC will be there before too much longer.--OKCRT.




Charlotte had about 1.3 million in its metropolitan area when they entered the NFL in 1995; Nashville had about 1.2 million in 1997 when they entered the NFL and NHL.

The next pro franchise needs to be an NFL team. Maybe by 2020 if OKC continues growing and attracts a few major corporations that can purchase a large number of suites that NFL teams drool over.

What was the size of Charlotte when the NFL came in? What about Nashville's population when the Oilers/Titans came to town. OKC will be there before too much longer.--OKCRT.




Charlotte had about 1.3 million in its metropolitan area when they entered the NFL in 1995; Nashville had about 1.2 million in 1997 when they entered the NFL and NHL.

Oklahoma City's population is right at 1.3 million now (2012) and it is projected to have somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.4 - 1.5 million around 2020.

Oklahoma City is going to have to gamble and put a huge sports stadium on its 2017 MAPS IV ballot; something with 50,000 minimum seats with the capability of being expanded to 75,000 - 85,000 in the future; hopefully, you could attract an annual OU & OSU non conference games to be played there and bring in an MLS (Major League Soccer franchise) as an anchor tenant. A few NFL exhibition games could help with financial maintenance of a stadium.

A price tag for a stadium of this size (50,000) is going to be around $500 million without the bell & whistles. In February of 1967 the Oklahoman reported (titled: "Huge City Stadium Asked.") that City leaders were looking at building a 100,000-seat stadium at Fair Park which would have cost $5 to $7 million. Wow! Inflation, inflation, inflation...

Regardless probably long shots for OKC and TUlsa, but still interesting none the less. Me personally I think they should relocate teams like Florida and Arizone before they start expanding. Those markets have never really embraced those teams.

Reports: NHL Plans Expansion, And Soon (http://deadspin.com/reports-nhl-plans-expansion-and-soon-1627363386)

I went to the rally I believe in 94 for hockey okc, I actually still have a puck.

why are they expanding? look at the expansion fees? 1.4 billion plus they need to even out the western conference with the eastern conference

Yeah but it still waters down the product even more.

If it were me I would move Columbus to the Western Central Division. Move the Panthers to either Seattle/Portland in the Western Pacific. Then add two eastern conference teams in quebec city, Hamilton, or Toronto.

Two separate, partially concordant reports on Tuesday indicate that the NHL is in the late stages of finalizing a league expansion in the next few years, with one of them going so far as to claim the NHL will add teams in Las Vegas, Seattle, Quebec City, and a second franchise in Toronto, all by 2017.

The NHL model is broken. Add a franchise in Las Vegas, this is a gamble? The NHL is desperate; this will be like a fox locked in the hen house.

Oklahoma City isn't ready for the another major professional league franchise (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL).

Something on the level of Major League Soccer (MLS) would probably be an area to consider.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

The hockey fans here in OKC are good ones...but there arent enough. Half the seats at the Barons games I got to are empty, I cant see it happening soon. But Im a die-hard hockey fan so Im all for it! BTW, Go BRUINS!
Alot more than half go empty. The Cox Center holds 12,000 and the Barons barely drew 3K.

Two separate, partially concordant reports on Tuesday indicate that the NHL is in the late stages of finalizing a league expansion in the next few years, with one of them going so far as to claim the NHL will add teams in Las Vegas, Seattle, Quebec City, and a second franchise in Toronto, all by 2017.

The NHL model is broken. Add a franchise in Las Vegas, this is a gamble? The NHL is desperate; this will be like a fox locked in the hen house.

Oklahoma City isn't ready for the another major professional league franchise (MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL).

Something on the level of Major League Soccer (MLS) would probably be an area to consider.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

why do u say the NHL model is broken?

the last 2 Stanley cup playoffs have had record tv ratings, attendance is up league wide, just got a huge new tv deal in Canada.

Why the NHL model is broken?

Markets: The NHL attempted early to grow the game (expansion & relocation) into a lot of non traditional markets. Thank God the NHL selected Columbus over Oklahoma City. Our franchise would probably have relocated to Quebec.

...now they are talking about Las Vegas?

Revenue sharing:

The TV revenue which is their greatest source goes mostly to the richer teams. They don't distribute the revenue to improve the league overall.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

Forget NHL and look to the future for NFL. I am not talking about next year but it's time to start putting the message out for down the road. You need a stadium that can hold 60-65k with all the bells and whistles and at todays cost your looking at somewhere around 800mil to 1 bil. That price will only go higher so OKC might as well start collecting some funds for this future project. OKC needs a giant cookie jar to hold that coin and no one better be caught with their hand in it..Lets get going OKC!

Forgive me for getting :ot: :

Consider a basic stadium (45,000-50,000) for MAPS IV; later if needed expand--bowl over & add an upper deck to reach 70,000-seat range. The City has land; therefore you could get something basic built for under $200 million with some amenities (suites, boxes, reserve seats) in hopes of luring an MLS tenant along with some OSU neutral site games, college bowl classic & NFL exhibition games etc. Our Metro population is on track to reach about 1.6 million come 2020; by then, our total hotel rooms in the area could reach 27,000.

https://sp2.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608043940612735166&pid=15.1&P=0 https://sp3.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608004207867004439&pid=15.1&P=0 https://sp2.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608008700410596746&pid=15.1&P=0

Gerald J. Ford Stadium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_J._Ford_Stadium) 32,000-seats - attendance record: 36,742, Construction cost:
$42 million ($57.5 million in 2014 dollars).

A similar stadium configuration could easily be bowled or horse-shoed to a 50,000 seat venue without all the bells & whistles. Half of the seats (middle sections) could be chair back with bleacher style end zone seats--sectioned off when not in use. This will give us a basic structure, much like when we built the Chesapeake Energy Arena which was retrofitted (NBA specs., revenue amenities, additional suites) to fit our needs. Voters would approve a stadium less than $200 million; however you're not going to get an $800 million facility approved with MAPS IV without a committed NFL tenant as we did with the NBA's 2007 arrival with MAPS for HOOPS.


Here’s a quote from then-OKC mayor Kirk Humphreys in 2002: “We spent $90 million for a sports arena and got one of the best deals in America. Could we have had a nicer building? Of course. That becomes a value decision for voters, and I think the majority would agree with the course of action we’ve taken.”

Ford Center improvements | News OK (http://newsok.com/ford-center-improvements/article/3772238)

If something big after 2020 like NFL expansion/relocation presents itself, we will be in a position to be considered. Our 'can do' reputation as a city with previous MAPS projects would have value.


The NHL hockey season runs concurrent with the NBA which would conflict with basketball. Several cities possess a combination of two franchises:

MLB-NBA (Milwaukee)
NFL-NBA (Charlotte, Indianapolis, New Orleans)
NFL-NHL (Nashville)
MLB-NFL (Baltimore, Cincinnati, Kansas City, San Diego)

There aren't any U.S. cities with a two-combination of just NBA-NHL.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

The NHL in OKC is one of the dumbest ideas in the history of ideas.

No.

Forgive me for getting :ot: :

Consider a basic stadium (45,000-50,000) for MAPS IV; later if needed expand--bowl over & add an upper deck to reach 70,000-seat range. The City has land; therefore you could get something basic built for under $200 million with some amenities (suites, boxes, reserve seats) in hopes of luring an MLS tenant along with some OSU neutral site games, college bowl classic & NFL exhibition games etc. Our Metro population is on track to reach about 1.6 million come 2020; by then, our total hotel rooms in the area could reach 27,000.

https://sp2.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608043940612735166&pid=15.1&P=0 https://sp3.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608004207867004439&pid=15.1&P=0 https://sp2.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608008700410596746&pid=15.1&P=0

Gerald J. Ford Stadium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_J._Ford_Stadium) 32,000-seats - attendance record: 36,742, Construction cost:
$42 million ($57.5 million in 2014 dollars).

A similar stadium configuration could easily be bowled or horse-shoed to a 50,000 seat venue without all the bells & whistles. Half of the seats (middle sections) could be chair back with bleacher style end zone seats--sectioned off when not in use. This will give us a basic structure, much like when we built the Chesapeake Energy Arena which was retrofitted (NBA specs., revenue amenities, additional suites) to fit our needs. Voters would approve a stadium less than $200 million; however you're not going to get an $800 million facility approved with MAPS IV without a committed NFL tenant as we did with the NBA's 2007 arrival with MAPS for HOOPS.



Ford Center improvements | News OK (http://newsok.com/ford-center-improvements/article/3772238)

If something big after 2020 like NFL expansion/relocation presents itself, we will be in a position to be considered. Our 'can do' reputation as a city with previous MAPS projects would have value.


The NHL hockey season runs concurrent with the NBA which would conflict with basketball. Several cities possess a combination of two franchises:

MLB-NBA (Milwaukee)
NFL-NBA (Charlotte, Indianapolis, New Orleans)
NFL-NHL (Nashville)
MLB-NFL (Baltimore, Cincinnati, Kansas City, San Diego)

There aren't any U.S. cities with a two-combination of just NBA-NHL.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

That stadium was largely paid for by a billionaire and its primary purpose was for a private D1 football program with a weak fan base. So when this was built, a tenant was already committed. What school or entity would the taxpayers pay to put in there? I know in your heart of hearts the NFL would be a fit here, but with a weak corporate base and cities such as LA and SA in a better position, I do not see it before 2050. With bowl games played in the winter months, good luck getting a game in OKC that does not have a roof.

As far as your two franchise statement and the NHL conflicting with the NBA, the following cities have no problem with franchises in these two sports that run at the same time.
New York
Chicago
Boston
Toronto
Dallas
LA
Washington
Philly
ATL
Denver

I often wonder if the Hornets had not relocated here whether or not we would have the NBA today. I feel that the Hornet relocation had more to do with the Sonics coming here than the Ford Center with no tenants.

The NHL in OKC is one of the dumbest ideas in the history of ideas.

No.

Why?

This seriously has to be explained?

Let's see.......better franchise locations.......no need for expansion (league is too big as it is).......OKC is a one horse town, sports entertainment wise..........hockey has been dead in Oklahoma for well over 8 years (have you been to a Barons or Tulsa Oilers game lately?)......

Look....I've followed hockey for 35 years......seen the game in 8 countries......grew up with the game........would love to see it on a personal level......but the thought of having pro hockey in Oklahoma City is laughable....would be doomed to fail....and would only hurt your city in the long run.

Trust me....you don't want this.

Don't know if you put enough ellipses.

Not really much to do with OKC but interesting anyway. I don't understand why the NHL wants to expand. Vegas and Quebec were the only two cities to submit bids. Why not just move Arizona and Florida to those cities (even though I think Vegas is a bad idea). Doesn't make much sense to me

Why Only Two Cities Submitted Bids For NHL Expansion Teams (http://deadspin.com/why-only-two-cities-submitted-bids-for-nhl-expansion-te-1719241737)

Not really much to do with OKC but interesting anyway. I don't understand why the NHL wants to expand. Vegas and Quebec were the only two cities to submit bids. Why not just move Arizona and Florida to those cities (even though I think Vegas is a bad idea). Doesn't make much sense to me

Why Only Two Cities Submitted Bids For NHL Expansion Teams (http://deadspin.com/why-only-two-cities-submitted-bids-for-nhl-expansion-te-1719241737)

Yeah, the NHL needs to expand like ... oh, like a fish needs a bicycle.

Yea the $500 expansion fee is the reason why the owners want to expand. They get to split that with the other owners and don't have to pay the players a dollar on that.

Also kind of surprised that Tulsa wouldn't place a bid. I mean if they are going for the Olympics why not the nhl?
They already have an arena, and would be a great first tenant

Not only do they get to spilt the $500 million, but it increases the value of half the league.

I kinda thought with the rumors starting a few weeks ago with the Shock that they would submit a bid for an expansion team. Granted I don't think I would have happened. Also surprised Kansas City didn't submit one either with the Sprint Center still without a tenant.

Wonder if Okc would have bid had we not gotten the thunder?