I went to go see a ballgame Sunday night, and a thought came to my mind....if we get too many more chain restaurants in Bricktown, it will ruin Bricktown for good. I thought this as I saw the IHOP sign and blue tower going up at the old restaurant supply building. Tourists aren't going to be attracted to an area where you have your typical row of chain restaurants which can be found in any suburban area. A row of restaurants like IHOP, Sonic, Marble Slab, and Nothing But Noodles simply isn't what we need in Bricktown. No, instead we need more restaurants like Nonna's, The Mantel, Daddy Hinkles, Mickey Mantle Steakhouse, Bricktown Brewery, Chelinos, etc. Bricktown needs to remain a unique place. I only hope the addition of Firefly and Boone's General Store will start a new trend of unique retail stores in the area, a trend that will compliment Laughing Fish Gift Shop and the Painted Door Gallery.

I agree...

But we darn sure would take a Cheesecake Factory! :)

Sorry, I disagree.

Bricktown (in my view) is or should be a melting pot for all kinds of good things to do downtown, and for all people who have a wide range of interests. I think that "melting pots" are a good thing, which, I think, is what this country actually is. An Ihop will be very comfortable for many who like such things. It shouldn't be considered as offensive to those who don't. A Nonna's will be good for those who want something special and upscale. It shouldn't be considered as a "don't come here" sign to those who just want a hot pancake breakfast.

Bricktown's value is that it attracts ALL of us to downtown and for many different reasons. And, so, my vote goes to, "The more, the merrier." I think that there is plenty of room for all.

No need exists for any viewpoint to be mutually exclusive of the other, in my opinion. I see it as a good thing for everyone to be attracted, participate, and enjoy Bricktown, which is to say, downtown Oklahoma City. I mean, it's not like an Ihop is going to ruin Bricktown, is it?

If that's so, isn't Spaghetti Warehouse, which I consider to be the spark that got Bricktown going, and at considerable risk in their venture in Bricktown, a chain? See http://www.meatballs.com/restaurant_locator.cfm

As I see it, there ought to be places in Bricktown for those who want to find anything their hearts desire. And, the more, the merrier. In the downtown Oklahoma City of old (pre-urban renewal), that was certainly the case, and, I think, it ought to be so now.

I don't think that downtown Oklahoma City's entertainment area, presently Bricktown, will be well served by catering ONLY to that part of the population which has the greater wealth. Nonnas is not going to be harmed by an Ihop, or vice versa, as I see it. I mean, is anyone old enough here to remember the pre-urban renewal days ... did a Katz Drug Store, or an Anna Maudes, or even a 5 and dime store, keep you from going to the Cooper Cinerama, or to Rothschilds, or to Browns? What is going on here with this snobbish sense about what Bricktown, "our" (all Oklahoma Citians) entertainment district should be limited to? Personally, I consider an elitist attitude about what Bricktown to be generally unfriendly, even hostile, to the majority of Oklahoma City's population (and, Patrick, that's how I see your post).

Shouldn't downtown be a place for us all to come togehter and enjoy and relish in our sense of pride in this great city? Or, should it just be for some.

Bricktown belongs to all of us, affluent or not. That's my opinion.

Doug, I agree with you to some extent. My only fear is that some of these smaller chain restaurants moving in will attract more suburban chain restaurants like Olive Garden, Red Lobster, etc. Those simply aren't unique and can be found in any suburban area. And once suburban restaurants start moving in, you never know what could come next. A Wal-Mart? Sam's Club? Lord help us.

I said before that IHOP would fill a void in the area, as we don't have a breakfast place in Bricktown.

As MalibuSooner hints at though, we simply need to pick and choose what chains we allow down there. For instance I wouldn't mind having a Cheesecake Factory in Bricktown, but I would be oppose to a Chili's.

What makes tourists want to come to Bricktown are the unique one of a kind of extablishments. If Bricktown becomes a replica of Memorial Rd., tourists simply won't have an interest in Bricktown.

Ask anyone in San Antonio or Dallas and they'll tell you chains ruined the Riverwalk and West End respectively.

In the modern era, there is a clear trend toward chain restaurants and retail in general.

Things have become much more competitive and there are great efficiencies gained through have multiple locations and it certainly makes it easier to advertise.

If you think about it, there are very few areas left that don't have a good chunk of national/regional chains. Campus Corner in Norman and Dowtown Edmond are the only two I can think of in the Metro, and both are pretty small.

I don't like them either, but iIt seems if you're going to have a commercial development of any significance, a certain amount of chains are a necessary evil.

Bricktown belongs to all of us, affluent or not. That's my opinion.

Whoa… I don't think anyone said that only expensive restaurants should be in bricktown. I have no idea why some people seem to think that the desire for unique destinations in bricktown equates to an elitist and snobbish attitude. That's very knee-jerk and unfounded.

The entire point of the original post was simply that without unique establishments exclusive to bricktown or the region, it loses its competitive advantage. The motivation for someone to leave their comfy house and spend money to travel and park at a destination is greatly diminished if that destination offers nothing different from where they just came. It losses all of the added value necessary to justify the added expense.

Outside of its club scene, Bricktown is resting totally on the laurels of its unique packaging (even then it is unique only to Oklahoma, as many cities in the southwest offer similar packaging), and that has been severely watered down by the design of lower bricktown, which is both unoriginal and a departure from Bricktown itself. Forward thinkers have to be asking themselves, will this novelty last?

People are drawn in by the idea of an urban destination and its inherent synergy. The idea that you can do a lot of things in one area that is full of people and energy is enticing. However, if you get there and realize that the majority of what is available can be found within 15 minutes of every suburban home, what’s your motivation for return?

There is absolutely nothing that says you can not have unique restaurants that serve interesting and tasty cuisine for the same price as the mid-range industry food chains that are in bricktown. Crap, even most well run local places serve the exact same thing, but much better for the same price (Cattlemen’s will kill any steak downtown for the price) There is absolutely nothing that says a local restaurateur can’t serve original and good breakfast fare better and at a comparable price to IHOP (VZDs, Beverly’s, and Classen Grill seem to kick IHOPs ass in selection and originality for the same price). And they are more likely to model their establishments with respect to the area and its culture, as opposed to forcing their model on the area as corporate chains do.

In Bricktown’s gestation period, the major developers have been pretty open about favoring prepackaged restaurants as opposed to unique local ones. As that period comes to an end, I see nothing elitist or snobbish in saying, “hey, you guys have benefited greatly from the investments made by the people of Oklahoma. How about giving back a bit and taking a chance on some its entrepreneurs? They took a chance on you.” Did we really tax ourselves, beautify your property, so that you could bring us another IHOP or Hooters?

Malibu is right when he says chains are a necessary evil. However, if OKC is serious about expanding its draw beyond Oklahoma weekenders and wants to use Brciktown to do it, it has to offer a critical mass of unique destinations. In fact, this may be just as important to maintaining and improving the frequency of visits by locals, and much needed weekday traffic.

In most senses, Oklahoma is playing catch up with just about every market within a days drive. Even when Brciktown lands a coveted chain (and even most new restaurants there), it is nothing new to the region and often times not even the city, resulting in no real long term accomplishment. Hopefully, we will recognize this and realize that our real opportunity to actually leapfrog competing markets and to improve our quality of life lies within our own people, their own ingenuity, and their own desire to bring something new and unique, not only to Oklahoma, but beyond.

And there is nothing that says, or even suggests, that access be limited to only the affluent and, in reality, the more chains that occupy Bricktown the less it belongs to us. It becomes less of a vision of Oklahomans and more of one by outsiders.

You want some good examples? Brookside in Tulsa, there's no IHOP, but it does have BBD's, "Brookside by Day", a very bohemien little breakfast place. The waiters wear tie die and none of the table match. Very popular, long lines, not expensive. BBD is next door to In The Raw, the upscale very trendy and still local sushi bar and the new Ford Filling Station, owned in part by Harrison Ford's son, but not a chain. That's a mix.

There are a lot of examples like this. Webber's Root Beer, a Tulsa institution, burgers and root beer and no tables, but they have been part of Brookside for many decades. Hank's hamburger's is across the street, another decades old burger stand. The Brookside Bar, Tulsa's oldest bar is there, they just added a very nice and inexpensive menu. It's next to Caio, a nice Italian place and Brookside Liau Thai, which is upscale asian. Brookside is home to $3 burgers from local places and $35 steaks from local places. I hate the idea that Charleston's and Fuddrucker's have moved in, hopefully they won't make there, just like Schlotsky's failed recently, at least they are south of 36th and not in heart of Brookside.

Hmmm..looking at the list of restaurants and establishments at Old Town Wichita, I don't see too many chain restaurants.

You want some good examples?

Well, there's plenty of examples in OKC as well, but we're talking about taking those concepts to Bricktown. I think the idea is that more Brookside, Western Ave. Paseo, 23rd., Cherry St. type stuff will benefit bricktown more in the long run than things like IHOP or Charlestons.

Why compare a city half our size? We need to compete with cities our size or larger.

The "Old Town" in Sacramento has very few dining establishments and is nearly ALL shops. Maybe Wichita does have a lot of dining establishments. However, we still have most attractive entertainment district I have seen. We just need to shower it with little twinkle lights year round.

We need to compete with cities our size or larger.

That's exactly what Witchita is thinking.

BDP: Whoa… I don't think anyone said that only expensive restaurants should be in bricktown. I have no idea why some people seem to think that the desire for unique destinations in bricktown equates to an elitist and snobbish attitude. That's very knee-jerk and unfounded.
Sorry, I misunderstood. I guess I'm a knee-jerk kinda guy ... slow on the uptake, as well, and I appreciate your counsel. Anyway, it's too late for both of us ... we've been passed by:

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/spoof1.jpg
http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/spoof2.jpg

Mabye I'm alone, but I can only eat once in an evening. With so many eating establishments and so few things to do, especially if I'm with children, it's almost not worth paying for parking. The view is great from a restaurant balcony, but if it's busy and you have no choice but to sit inside, then it's no different than eating somewhere on Memorial.

They should build a semi-tall tower with an elevator that goes to the top with a lookout, now that would be cool. Mabye go more out on the landscaping. What about a courtyard with different types of entertainment, music, comedy, etc.

Bricktown is very popular the way it is now, however, all the people I talk to feel the same as I do, they would go every now and then, but it's not a big deal, it's just a strip of restaurants.

I think that if you make a decision to do something that has already been done somewhere else, at least make it better, bigger, more noteworthy.....something.

Freelance street entertainers are a regular scene in New York all the way to San Fransisco, these people (no matter how strange) can be very entertaining.....you can stop and watch for a few minutes then go on. Why do we only see this during an outdoor event and hardly even then.

no more restaurants, at least for a while. there are plenty of local and national eateries there already. what we need is more residential housing, with that i think we'll see more enteresting things. maybe a bookstore, a place to buy video games, drugstore, a little grocery shop. maybe cd warehouse could relocate there. it does'nt have to be exactly in the core, but that would make it more enteresting. just throwing out suggestions; don't know if there good or not. just suggestions.

Oh, fromdust.....there was a little coffee house/bookstore called Paris on the Platte in downtown Denver that had a tiny stage that single folk singers, etc. would entertain for tips and had an adorable patio. Something like that would be awesome.

That's exactly what Witchita is thinking.


I thought you might be interested in seeing some of Wichita's "Old Town". They've done especially well in keeping with the tradition of the area.

A small piece of "Old Town" from above..
http://www.visitwichita.com/NR/rdonlyres/84930451-EDEB-43C0-BB6E-9BCD4EAA6B2E/14306/old_town2.jpg

River City Brewery
http://www.visitwichita.com/NR/rdonlyres/84930451-EDEB-43C0-BB6E-9BCD4EAA6B2E/14313/rivercitybrewery.jpg

Whiskey Creek Steakhouse
http://www.visitwichita.com/NR/rdonlyres/84930451-EDEB-43C0-BB6E-9BCD4EAA6B2E/14357/whiskeycreek1.jpg

Mosley Street Melodrama
http://www.visitwichita.com/NR/rdonlyres/84930451-EDEB-43C0-BB6E-9BCD4EAA6B2E/14358/mosleystreetmelodrama1.jpg

Fine and Decorative Art at Eaton Place
http://www.visitwichita.com/NR/rdonlyres/84930451-EDEB-43C0-BB6E-9BCD4EAA6B2E/14322/fineanddec1.jpg

First Gear -- Wichita's running store with the largest selection of running shoes and accessories in the city.
http://www.visitwichita.com/NR/rdonlyres/84930451-EDEB-43C0-BB6E-9BCD4EAA6B2E/14319/firstgear.jpg

Old Town General Store
http://www.visitwichita.com/NR/rdonlyres/84930451-EDEB-43C0-BB6E-9BCD4EAA6B2E/14321/oldgeneral.jpg

no more restaurants, at least for a while.

I think that sounds reasonable. The restaurant market is already pretty saturated in Bricktown. We need to focus on filling the empty spaces with shops, loft apartments, offices, and other entertainment venues. I'd say the top 2 retail needs in Bricktown currently are a grocery store/market and book store, as has already been mentioned.

BTW, thanks terrared for the pics. I personally don't think the size of Wichita plays a fator here...you guys sem to have a pretty nice downtown retail and restaurant district...I'm impressed!

I guess I'm a knee-jerk kinda guy ... slow on the uptake, as well, and I appreciate your counsel.

I do what I can. But don't worry, you're not alone. Many people think that if it's not done by Wal-Mart, it's going to be expensive.

Did you get those canal renderings from Hogan's office? Seems to represent the vision pretty well (maybe you should go ahead and slap a Wal-Mart in there).


I thought you might be interested in seeing some of Wichita's "Old Town".

Thanks. It looks nice. It looks like your have a higher number of smaller storefronts than our bricktown, which definately helps.