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soonerguru
05-08-2013, 10:17 PM
Yes it does, however, Oklahoma will never have the business acumen and talent that Texas has. Oh by the way, looks like the wonderful city of Plano, my current place I live, just landed another major corporate relocation. See below... Texas seems to attract the "top" business talent.






NTT Data Inc. to move its North American HQ to Plano - Dallas Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2013/05/08/ntt-data-inc-to-move-its-north.html)

Texas is a really, really big state. Per capita, it doesn't have more "talent" than Oklahoma. This is just an asinine statement.

Also, Texas has more dumb douches like Rick Perry and other racist blathering morons than just about anywhere else on the planet. It's not the land of milk and honey.

Without the money, Dallas would be a cultural wasteland. It is not even in the conversation of the great world cities. It's a place where transient mercenaries go to work.

Plutonic Panda
05-08-2013, 10:45 PM
Texas is a really, really big state. Per capita, it doesn't have more "talent" than Oklahoma. This is just an asinine statement.

Also, Texas has more dumb douches like Rick Perry and other racist blathering morons than just about anywhere else on the planet. It's not the land of milk and honey.

Without the money, Dallas would be a cultural wasteland. It is not even in the conversation of the great world cities. It's a place where transient mercenaries go to work.You couldn't be more wrong. I've talked to people in South America (my stepmother is from there, Brazil to be exact), I have friends in London, and most of my family is middle eastern (my grandfather was born in Iran). I'm Caucasian, as I was adopted hours before birth, and I've talked to people from all over the world, and they all speak highly of Dallas, VERY highly. I've had friends from London tell me they thought Dallas was bigger than London. They love the highway system and what the city has to offer.

It seems reality is lost on this board quite often, most of the time I bite my lip and don't say anything. Dallas in a nice city. It does have more pretentious people their, but it's a nice city. OKC is my city and I'll always love it, mainly because it's my hometown, and in the end, this is where I'll end up and I'll defend it to the death, but Dallas is not just endless suburbia and transient mercenaries or a potential cultural wasteland.

Also, I do agree that Perry is not the brightest apple in the bunch, but as far as the number of racist there, I don't agree with that.

Oh, and I do agree heavily with your first statement!

soonerguru
05-08-2013, 11:07 PM
You couldn't be more wrong. I've talked to people in South America (my stepmother is from there, Brazil to be exact), I have friends in London, and most of my family is middle eastern (my grandfather was born in Iran). I'm Caucasian, as I was adopted hours before birth, and I've talked to people from all over the world, and they all speak highly of Dallas, VERY highly. I've had friends from London tell me they thought Dallas was bigger than London. They love the highway system and what the city has to offer.

It seems reality is lost on this board quite often, most of the time I bite my lip and don't say anything. Dallas in a nice city. It does have more pretentious people their, but it's a nice city. OKC is my city and I'll always love it, mainly because it's my hometown, and in the end, this is where I'll end up and I'll defend it to the death, but Dallas is not just endless suburbia and transient mercenaries or a potential cultural wasteland.

Also, I do agree that Perry is not the brightest apple in the bunch, but as far as the number of racist there, I don't agree with that.

Oh, and I do agree heavily with your first statement!

Fair enough, but it's not the utopian world city progressiveboy makes it out to be. I actually kind of like Dallas. It's a sugary confection. But it is not a national -- let alone -- international cultural treasure.

progressiveboy seems to lack perspective of the fact that Texas is just a lot bigger and that's why there's more "there" there.

Plutonic Panda
05-08-2013, 11:42 PM
Fair enough, but it's not the utopian world city progressiveboy makes it out to be. I actually kind of like Dallas. It's a sugary confection. But it is not a national -- let alone -- international cultural treasure.

progressiveboy seems to lack perspective of the fact that Texas is just a lot bigger and that's why there's more "there" there.I agree with you, for the most part. I understand mostly what you were saying and defending Oklahoma. Sorry if I sounded argumentative, I wasn't trying to be, just wanted to get my thoughts out there.

(I also lost a few games on GTA4, so I wasn't in the best mood when I wrote that ;) I just got back from a midnight walk ;P)

adaniel
05-08-2013, 11:48 PM
Yes it does, however, Oklahoma will never have the business acumen and talent that Texas has. Oh by the way, looks like the wonderful city of Plano, my current place I live, just landed another major corporate relocation. See below... Texas seems to attract the "top" business talent.

NTT Data Inc. to move its North American HQ to Plano - Dallas Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2013/05/08/ntt-data-inc-to-move-its-north.html)


You couldn't be more wrong. I've talked to people in South America (my stepmother is from there, Brazil to be exact), I have friends in London, and most of my family is middle eastern (my grandfather was born in Iran). I'm Caucasian, as I was adopted hours before birth, and I've talked to people from all over the world, and they all speak highly of Dallas, VERY highly. I've had friends from London tell me they thought Dallas was bigger than London. They love the highway system and what the city has to offer.

It seems reality is lost on this board quite often, most of the time I bite my lip and don't say anything. Dallas in a nice city. It does have more pretentious people their, but it's a nice city. OKC is my city and I'll always love it, mainly because it's my hometown, and in the end, this is where I'll end up and I'll defend it to the death, but Dallas is not just endless suburbia and transient mercenaries or a potential cultural wasteland.


I think both of you need to understand that this is an OKC board. Yeah its nice to keep tabs on what's going on there, but 99% of people come on here to find out what's going on in their community.

I will say this, as a Plano native myself, that DFW will always have a special place in my heart. But I am quite happy here and am frankly, too wrapped up in all that is going on in OKC to pay much attention to whats happening in Dallas. I have noticed a lot of Texans here in the past few years, including a few from my high school. It makes sense given that OK now has experienced net inmigration from TX for the past few years. Yet sometimes we can get into the "snotty transplant mode" of, well where I'm from we do it like this blah blah blah. I'm guilty of it myself sometimes.

And given the whole "Texas Pride" thing, we can do it a little worse than most. There's no malevolent intentions. But I don't think most Texas transplants realize how it comes across. One of my friends in Denver who I went to HS with in Plano says the same thing about TX transplants up there.

Now I am not saying that we cannot look down there to see what is done and maybe improve on some things. But we should look at ALL cities for inspiration. And what to not do as well. I like and miss TX but they are doing some things down there that are deeply flawed IMO. I mean, progressiveboy is quick to point out when a new company relocates to TX but does he ever link a story when TX gets blasted for its atrocious rankings in health and education?

Plutonic Panda
05-09-2013, 12:09 AM
I think both of you need to understand that this is an OKC board. Yeah its nice to keep tabs on what's going on there, but 99% of people come on here to find out what's going on in their community.

I will say this, as a Plano native myself, that DFW will always have a special place in my heart. But I am quite happy here and am frankly, too wrapped up in all that is going on in OKC to pay much attention to whats happening in Dallas. I have noticed a lot of Texans here in the past few years, including a few from my high school. It makes sense given that OK now has experienced net inmigration from TX for the past few years. Yet sometimes we can get into the "snotty transplant mode" of, well where I'm from we do it like this blah blah blah. I'm guilty of it myself sometimes.

And given the whole "Texas Pride" thing, we can do it a little worse than most. There's no malevolent intentions. But I don't think most Texas transplants realize how it comes across. One of my friends in Denver who I went to HS with in Plano says the same thing about TX transplants up there.

Now I am not saying that we cannot look down there to see what is done and maybe improve on some things. But we should look at ALL cities for inspiration. And what to not do as well. I like and miss TX but they are doing some things down there that are deeply flawed IMO. I mean, progressiveboy is quick to point out when a new company relocates to TX but does he ever link a story when TX gets blasted for its atrocious rankings in health and education?I was born and raised here amigo :)

BTW, great post!

dcsooner
05-09-2013, 04:16 AM
I think both of you need to understand that this is an OKC board. Yeah its nice to keep tabs on what's going on there, but 99% of people come on here to find out what's going on in their community.

I will say this, as a Plano native myself, that DFW will always have a special place in my heart. But I am quite happy here and am frankly, too wrapped up in all that is going on in OKC to pay much attention to whats happening in Dallas. I have noticed a lot of Texans here in the past few years, including a few from my high school. It makes sense given that OK now has experienced net inmigration from TX for the past few years. Yet sometimes we can get into the "snotty transplant mode" of, well where I'm from we do it like this blah blah blah. I'm guilty of it myself sometimes.

And given the whole "Texas Pride" thing, we can do it a little worse than most. There's no malevolent intentions. But I don't think most Texas transplants realize how it comes across. One of my friends in Denver who I went to HS with in Plano says the same thing about TX transplants up there.

Now I am not saying that we cannot look down there to see what is done and maybe improve on some things. But we should look at ALL cities for inspiration. And what to not do as well. I like and miss TX but they are doing some things down there that are deeply flawed IMO. I mean, progressiveboy is quick to point out when a new company relocates to TX but does he ever link a story when TX gets blasted for its atrocious rankings in health and education?

I agree 1,000% with this sentiment. I don't know of another metro area that so lathers over another. There are numerous Cities beside Dallas that OKC can inspire to be like. People who look to Dallas should focus that energy to getting involved and making OKC an even more attractive location for business.

progressiveboy
05-09-2013, 06:38 PM
OK Folks:) First of all, as I have stated in previous threads, I am a native of OKC so like Panda, born and raised here. If you look at the first post from this thread it is saying "Why Dallas must you be so dominant"? Am I correct? So my intention is twofold, Dallas truly is becoming such a "dominant" city where it seems that weekly, they announce a move or new HQ coming to the city that it seems to be a city spreading like a massive wildfire with horrendous traffic and sprawl that takes you for miles and miles. I believe I have stated this in previous threads. Yes, I am quick to point out when a new company relocates to TX giving me further affirmation that it is great in one aspect, however, it is beginning to get out of control IMHO. Second, hopefully it provides inspiration to all the OKC movers and shakers of the community that they should be courting new companies because it deserves to be a vibrant, growing city. If OKC attracts high paying jobs then it attracts new wealth and brings in human capital who contribute to the community. Believe me, there are far superior cities to Dallas, my beloved city (LOL) NY, San Diego, Atlanta come to mind. Most importantly, OKC from a geographical point of view, sits right in the middle part of the country with three major interstates running through the city. From a logistical point, OKC should be taking away some of what Dallas has achieved!

Plutonic Panda
05-09-2013, 07:15 PM
^^^^ Like

soonerguru
05-10-2013, 01:36 AM
^^^^ Like

Good post, progressiveboy. Sorry if I came off a bit harsh. It's true that Dallas has many corporate relocations, but there are a lot of reasons for that, including a major airport.

My company has headquarters in an Eastern city and a regional office in Dallas that serves North Texas, Oklahoma, and Arkansas. What I've found interesting is that my regional Dallas corporate management LOVES OKC. They think our city is the bomb. They've actually hosted national meetings here because they like the ease of the hotels, the cost, and the things to do for a night or two in Bricktown.

But the odd thing is they have not hosted a regional meeting here. Why? Because the people from Arkansas cannot fly here direct and would have to connect through DFW.

Sometimes, it's just that simple. If you put a headquarters in Dallas you have a direct flight to all of your territories.

OKC cannot compete with Dallas and Houston as long as we don't have direct flights everywhere. But Austin and Portland are two cities off the top of my head that don't have that either and are doing just fine.

soonerguru
05-10-2013, 01:44 AM
To add to my post above. I've heard lore about OKC and Dallas slugging it out at one time for which city got the airport. Not sure if the urban legend is true or not but Dallas obviously got the airport -- and we didn't -- and that itself was enough to doom our city to second-place status with Dallas.

Thinking about this is instructive as we consider other investment in transportation infrastructure. The point is that to be a world city we have to have this infrastructure. No ifs, ands, or buts. I believe (and at least hope) that our city leadership and our Chamber of Commerce now recognize and consider this point. To say again: WE CANNOT BE A BIG LEAGUE CITY WITHOUT A BIG-CITY TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM.

The time is now. We are ready. OKC now thinks of itself as a big city as do its citizens. Now we need to make the investment in a public transportation infrastructure that will propel us to the next level.

And we have an advantage. Are we behind other cities? Yes, absolutely. But we can learn from their successes and failures and build something that is more modern and technologically advanced.

bluedogok
05-10-2013, 10:34 AM
Good post, progressiveboy. Sorry if I came off a bit harsh. It's true that Dallas has many corporate relocations, but there are a lot of reasons for that, including a major airport.

My company has headquarters in an Eastern city and a regional office in Dallas that serves North Texas, Oklahoma, and Arkansas. What I've found interesting is that my regional Dallas corporate management LOVES OKC. They think our city is the bomb. They've actually hosted national meetings here because they like the ease of the hotels, the cost, and the things to do for a night or two in Bricktown.

But the odd thing is they have not hosted a regional meeting here. Why? Because the people from Arkansas cannot fly here direct and would have to connect through DFW.

Sometimes, it's just that simple. If you put a headquarters in Dallas you have a direct flight to all of your territories.

OKC cannot compete with Dallas and Houston as long as we don't have direct flights everywhere. But Austin and Portland are two cities off the top of my head that don't have that either and are doing just fine.
Austin has some direct flights to markets important to the industry there, many of them are only provided by one carrier so times and pricing tends to be the issue there. I fly from Denver to Louisville about every two weeks, there are some direct flights (United) but the timing of them makes them not optimal. I typically fly through Chicago-Midway (Southwest) because the times they offer work out better for my meeting times in Louisville. Luckily our project is at the airport so I can cut the times closer since the project is on one side of the terminal and the AOB is on the other.

Bellaboo
05-10-2013, 01:07 PM
Yes it does, however, Oklahoma will never have the business acumen and talent that Texas has. Oh by the way, looks like the wonderful city of Plano, my current place I live, just landed another major corporate relocation. See below... Texas seems to attract the "top" business talent.

NTT Data Inc. to move its North American HQ to Plano - Dallas Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2013/05/08/ntt-data-inc-to-move-its-north.html)

Just a few years back, Grapevine gave Fleming 9 million to relocate. Fleming took the money, relocated and folded within a year and a half.

That's business accumen at it's finest.

All Texas does is 'buy companies' using a slush fund......J C Penny is about to fold, and they were the big relocation prize back in the eighties, at least they did last awhile though.


Like I said, they are attracting them with dollars...

Teo9969
06-23-2013, 07:52 PM
Was in Dallas this week/end doing some work down at the Market Center. Rode the DART 3/4 days down there for Carrollton. Dallas gets a thumbs up from the DART. Good ridership...excellent way for people to not have to deal with traffic and get to their destinations. Intervals are very reasonable.

Drove down there today. Harry Hines Boulevard down by the WTC isn't even DRIVABLE much less walkable. Couldn't find a gas station convenient store after driving around for literally 15 minutes trying to find a coke. So much wasted space.

You know what Dallas really is? ...It's a really really really big current day OKC.

I hope by the time OKC gets to 2,000,000 we've fully departed from the horrible example Dallas has set.

Teo9969
06-23-2013, 07:55 PM
btw...the Dallas WTC is deceptively MASSIVE. Looks like a 6 story building from I-35...It's 14 stories and has the footprint of a Mall anchor.

dankrutka
06-23-2013, 10:09 PM
Was in Dallas this week/end doing some work down at the Market Center. Rode the DART 3/4 days down there for Carrollton. Dallas gets a thumbs up from the DART. Good ridership...excellent way for people to not have to deal with traffic and get to their destinations. Intervals are very reasonable.

I know an OKC board isn't the best place for this question, but maybe someone here knows... Anyway, does anyone know how easy/long it is to get from Dallas to Denton via public transportation? I'd have to take the DART and the A-train, right? I'm moving to the area in August and trying to figure out the possible living options.

Teo9969
06-24-2013, 10:42 AM
I know an OKC board isn't the best place for this question, but maybe someone here knows... Anyway, does anyone know how easy/long it is to get from Dallas to Denton via public transportation? I'd have to take the DART and the A-train, right? I'm moving to the area in August and trying to figure out the possible living options.

DART Green Line Schedule: DART.org - DART Rail Green Line (http://www.dart.org/riding/dartrailgreenline.asp)
DART Travel Times: http://www.dart.org/schedules/rail/traveltimes03dec12.pdf
A-Train Schedule: 11413 A-train| DCTA (http://www.dcta.net/about-dcta/11413-a-train.html)


The northern most DART line to Downtown is ~40 minutes. And it looks like Denton to Green Line is 30 to 40 minutes. So an hour and a half roughly from Denton to Downtown...that's if you don't miss your trains or don't get there super early and sit on the train fro 10 extra minutes. It could easily be a 2 hour trip.

Teo9969
06-24-2013, 10:42 AM
Also, no A-Train on Sunday.

adaniel
06-24-2013, 10:58 AM
I know an OKC board isn't the best place for this question, but maybe someone here knows... Anyway, does anyone know how easy/long it is to get from Dallas to Denton via public transportation? I'd have to take the DART and the A-train, right? I'm moving to the area in August and trying to figure out the possible living options.

It depends on where you are going in Dallas. But as a native of that area, I wouldn't recommend it. At least not for daily use. As teo9969 states, you are looking at 3 hours/day commuting.

Not that its any of my business, but can I ask why would you live so far out? There are many transit oriented developments popping up along DART's main lines that would be much more practical.

Teo9969
06-24-2013, 02:06 PM
Definitely noticed the TODs the entire way from North Carrollton to the Market Center when I was going back and forth.

It seems like the only nice area of Dallas is the Highway 75 corridor.

dankrutka
06-24-2013, 02:51 PM
It depends on where you are going in Dallas. But as a native of that area, I wouldn't recommend it. At least not for daily use. As teo9969 states, you are looking at 3 hours/day commuting.

Not that its any of my business, but can I ask why would you live so far out? There are many transit oriented developments popping up along DART's main lines that would be much more practical.

I'd be working in Denton and I'd only have to go there 3-4 days per week. Most my friends live in the downtown Dallas area so I don't want to have to constantly drive there. I figured that I can do a lot of work on the ride, but 1.5-2 hours would be too long probably. I'm not interested in living in suburban areas. Looking for vibrant, urban areas so that rules out most suburbs along the line unless they have a vibrant, old main street (which it seems like most don't have).

Teo9969
06-24-2013, 03:03 PM
What about Frisco? I was there Saturday night for a short bit and they seemed to have a nice set up down there.

EDIT: NVM...you're working in Denton.

Plutonic Panda
06-24-2013, 09:07 PM
Was in Dallas this week/end doing some work down at the Market Center. Rode the DART 3/4 days down there for Carrollton. Dallas gets a thumbs up from the DART. Good ridership...excellent way for people to not have to deal with traffic and get to their destinations. Intervals are very reasonable.

Drove down there today. Harry Hines Boulevard down by the WTC isn't even DRIVABLE much less walkable. Couldn't find a gas station convenient store after driving around for literally 15 minutes trying to find a coke. So much wasted space.

You know what Dallas really is? ...It's a really really really big current day OKC.

I hope by the time OKC gets to 2,000,000 we've fully departed from the horrible example Dallas has set.Dallas is a great example of what an awesome city is. I don't want to say I want to see OKC follow in Dallas's footsteps, as I want each city to grow and define itself in its own way.

There are a few things I'm not happy about Dallas doing, one of them is building a new toll road along the trinity river. Other than that, why is Dallas a bad example?

Teo9969
06-24-2013, 10:27 PM
Dallas is a great example of what an awesome city is. I don't want to say I want to see OKC follow in Dallas's footsteps, as I want each city to grow and define itself in its own way.

There are a few things I'm not happy about Dallas doing, one of them is building a new toll road along the trinity river. Other than that, why is Dallas a bad example?

Because when I'm driving around a district that has as much traffic as a hospital and a Market Center in addition to several major hotels, at least 1 gas station ought to turn up in 15 minutes of driving. I remember staying at the Courtyard Marriott on Market Center Blvd the first time I ever went to Dallas and we had to travel like 4 or 5 miles up Stemmons to find somewhere to eat. The planning and development is ATROCIOUS in that area, truly worthy of shame for a city of 1.2M people.

So much along the I-35 corridor, particularly N of downtown (the main bit I've seen in that corridor) is extremely blighted. It's like 10th St. in OKC.

The 75 corridor is nice, but that highway at midnight looks like rush hour in OKC. Traffic there is truly a nightmare.

For a city with all the resources that it has available, it never ceases to amaze me how inconsistent and incoherent it is laid out. Spend some time in Downtown after 5 and in the Market Center area at any time. Drive around Dallas in general. There's nothing intuitive about the place at all.

I'm not saying OKC is by any means better...but Dallas is also 2x/5x the size of OKC. Houston, the hell hole that it is, is a much more enjoyable city than Dallas. Philadelphia is 10x the city that Dallas is. The short time I was in Austin, I thought it had much more character and quality than Dallas.

What about Dallas over, against *their* peer cities, do you think OKC should aspire to emulate?

dankrutka
06-24-2013, 10:46 PM
What about Frisco? I was there Saturday night for a short bit and they seemed to have a nice set up down there.

EDIT: NVM...you're working in Denton.

My wife's family is near Fort Worth so that's another consideration. The only viable options seem to be Denton, Grapevine, and Dallas.

Plutonic Panda
06-25-2013, 01:14 AM
Because when I'm driving around a district that has as much traffic as a hospital and a Market Center in addition to several major hotels, at least 1 gas station ought to turn up in 15 minutes of driving. I remember staying at the Courtyard Marriott on Market Center Blvd the first time I ever went to Dallas and we had to travel like 4 or 5 miles up Stemmons to find somewhere to eat. The planning and development is ATROCIOUS in that area, truly worthy of shame for a city of 1.2M people.

So much along the I-35 corridor, particularly N of downtown (the main bit I've seen in that corridor) is extremely blighted. It's like 10th St. in OKC.

The 75 corridor is nice, but that highway at midnight looks like rush hour in OKC. Traffic there is truly a nightmare.

For a city with all the resources that it has available, it never ceases to amaze me how inconsistent and incoherent it is laid out. Spend some time in Downtown after 5 and in the Market Center area at any time. Drive around Dallas in general. There's nothing intuitive about the place at all.

I'm not saying OKC is by any means better...but Dallas is also 2x/5x the size of OKC. Houston, the hell hole that it is, is a much more enjoyable city than Dallas. Philadelphia is 10x the city that Dallas is. The short time I was in Austin, I thought it had much more character and quality than Dallas.

What about Dallas over, against *their* peer cities, do you think OKC should aspire to emulate?It's nothing but opinion and if traffic/ lack of gas stations is all you have against Dallas than that's cool. I think OKC should grow in its own direction, but Dallas is not a bad model. For 6+ million people, traffic is generally not that bad. The city is beautiful in my view and if you can't find character in it, than so be it. I can understand why urbanist wouldn't like, and that's just completely fine.

Also, as I've stated before, OKC shouldn't aspire emulate any city, it should do the best it can do and strive to make a name for itself, being unique and outstanding.

bluedogok
06-25-2013, 09:42 PM
I have no desire to move back to Dallas but you have to understand the different areas of Dallas. 30-40 years ago the area around Market Center used to have a ton of restaurants and shops many years ago but business and more affluent residents left the area and moved to other parts of town leaving the area there to others. Demographic changes and crime has caused many businesses to relocate or close up in the area. The area that I lived in 20 years ago is much different now than when I lived there, it is just a fact of life in a big city. You can drive through any major metro area and find retail dead zones in areas that are struggling or blighted.

dankrutka
06-25-2013, 10:37 PM
For 6+ million people, traffic is generally not that bad.

What? There lots of parts of DFW where the traffic is absolutely ridiculous.

Teo9969
06-25-2013, 10:45 PM
My quick anecdotal evidence is that it took me 20 to 25 minutes to go this far:

https://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&q=frankford+station+carrollton&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&hl=en

Like I said earlier in the thread...75 at midnight is like OKC rush hour.

Plutonic Panda
06-26-2013, 02:22 AM
What? There lots of parts of DFW where the traffic is absolutely ridiculous.Yes there are, but it's generally only during rush hour. For it's size, Dallas has fair traffic. Houston, Atlanta, L.A. to name a few, have insanely worse traffic than Dallas, and Dallas is in the same league or not far behind them. Houston traffic is almost 24/7 nightmare, Dallas is almost only during rush hour. Went to Dallas last week during a Saturday and drove all around the city, it was almost like OKC. There was one major backup on 635, but that was due to construction. I've seen Edmond traffic worse than what Dallas was on that particular Saturday. It gets bad, and again, there are almost 7 million people living in the metroplex, go to Houston and it is smaller than Dallas, if you go by MSA, and it is a million times worse. Houston has OKC rush hour traffic at 2am(ok that might be a little over stretch, but it's still bad!!!lol). I'm not trying to say Dallas has no traffic, but in terms of its size and population, I think to say Dallas has nightmarish traffic is a going a little far.

In_Tulsa
06-26-2013, 07:22 AM
That's because Dallas has one of the most sophisticated infrastructure highway systems in the US.

Plutonic Panda
06-26-2013, 11:58 AM
Is that bad? They are also heavily expanding their light-rail too.

bluedogok
06-26-2013, 09:02 PM
My quick anecdotal evidence is that it took me 20 to 25 minutes to go this far:

https://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&q=frankford+station+carrollton&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&hl=en

Like I said earlier in the thread...75 at midnight is like OKC rush hour.
It's a lot better than when I lived there, that was before 75 was widened, it still had the short ramps and metering lights. I never took it unless I was leaving the office in the middle of the night.

Snowman
07-01-2013, 07:48 AM
So apparently a new section of what could end up another loop around Dallas-Fort Worth has been completed.

Outer Loop Road might be first step in Collin?s future growth | Dallasnews.com - News for Dallas, Texas - The Dallas Morning News (http://www.dallasnews.com/news/community-news/collin-county/headlines/20121008-outer-loop-road-might-be-first-step-in-collins-future-growth.ece)

G.Walker
07-11-2013, 04:25 PM
New State Farm complex in Richardson will allow company to grow to 8,000 Dallas-area workers | Biz Beat Blog (http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2013/07/new-state-farm-complex-in-richardson-will-have-room-for-8000-workers.html/)

UrbanNebraska
07-11-2013, 05:19 PM
Wow that is humungous.

modernism
07-17-2013, 01:24 PM
I was recently in Uptown Dallas, and let me tell you, it has came a long way. Yes, most of Dallas is a sprawling mess, but Uptown Dallas has set the standard for true urbanism. Most high-rises are 20-25 stories, pushed to the street, ground floor retail, with street level interactions, and developments close to a light rail station.

warreng88
08-19-2013, 01:09 PM
So, the wife and I went down to Dallas this weekend to do a little birthday shopping (we don't have a Kate Spade, Tory Burch, Neiman Marcus, Crate and Barrel or Container Store here). We stayed in Richardson at the Hyatt House right off of I-75. We drove around to a lot of areas on Dallas and noticed several things: 1) 635 from 35 to 75 is a cluster, you know what... In the eight mile stretch from 75 to 35 on 635, there was not one area where there were normal roads. The entire section was under construction and I can only imagine how wide it will be. I would guess seven lanes on either side, but I might be wrong. 2) The 635/I-35 interchange has got to be one of the biggest road construction projects I have ever seen and I can't imagine what people who drive it every day have to go through or what the drive time is like. 3) How does Dallas spend billions of dollars constantly expanding their highway system (and I have never been down there and not seen something under construction) and still have a functional mass transit system? Is it their size? Do they get a ton of funding from the state?

Just the facts
08-19-2013, 02:18 PM
3) How does Dallas spend billions of dollars constantly expanding their highway system (and I have never been down there and not seen something under construction) and still have a functional mass transit system? Is it their size? Do they get a ton of funding from the state?

They borrowed it and now their debt payments are higher than what they spend on roads. Texas DOT has a $31 billion debt burden and last month they had to transfer $4 billion from the states rainy day fund just to maintain what they already built. The future is not looking too bright for Texas roads.

Plutonic Panda
08-19-2013, 02:24 PM
They borrowed it and now their debt payments are higher than what they spend on roads. Texas DOT has a $31 billion debt burden and last month they had to transfer $4 billion from the states rainy day fund just to maintain what they already built. The future is not looking too bright for Texas roads.The future looks very bright for Texas roads and Texas in general.

Just the facts
08-19-2013, 02:33 PM
The future looks very bright for Texas roads and Texas in general.

If their money is going to debt payments and they can't afford to build more or maintain what they already built how do you figure the future looks bright? How much more empirical evidence do we need that the growth model doesn't work? Google 'Texas DOT debt' and you will find every tax group, every newspaper, and nearly every state official sounding the alarm. When you have democrats AND republicans in the state legislature saying they can't afford it anymore there is a real good chance they really can't afford it anymore.

Plutonic Panda
08-19-2013, 02:52 PM
If their money is going to debt payments and they can't afford to build more or maintain what they already built how do you figure the future looks bright? How much more empirical evidence do we need that the growth model doesn't work? Google 'Texas DOT debt' and you will find every tax group, every newspaper, and nearly every state official sounding the alarm. When you have democrats AND republicans in the state legislature saying they can't afford it anymore there is a real good chance they really can't afford it anymore.Texas has one of the best credit ratings in the U.S. Everything is so expensive anymore, how do you figure Utah spending billions on their light-rail in SLC and California spending nearly 100 billion on their HSR is different than what Texas is doing, well Texas actually pays back their loans, and fairly quickly on some of their projects. Texas is also growing EXTREMELY fast, so that accounts for some.

HangryHippo
08-19-2013, 03:05 PM
Texas has one of the best credit ratings in the U.S. Everything is so expensive anymore, how do you figure Utah spending billions on their light-rail in SLC and California spending nearly 100 billion on their HSR is different than what Texas is doing, well Texas actually pays back their loans, and fairly quickly on some of their projects. Texas is also growing EXTREMELY fast, so that accounts for some.

It seems like you're assuming that the growth they're so reliant upon will continue indefinitely. It will not.

Jersey Boss
08-19-2013, 03:11 PM
The future looks very bright for Texas roads and Texas in general.

I think I would rather have Oklahoma water, you can keep the roads, thank you very much.

RodH
08-19-2013, 03:30 PM
If I remember correctly, 635 is being rebuilt by a private company and part of the new highway will be toll. Over a billion dollars of the money that SLC id spending on their transit systems is federal assistance.

warreng88
08-19-2013, 03:51 PM
Texas is also growing EXTREMELY fast, so that accounts for some.

And with that growth comes more need for more money on improved infrastructure. Since Texas does it by debt and not cash like Oklahoma, wouldn't it mean they would continue to dig themselves deeper into debt as the need arises?

CaptDave
08-19-2013, 03:57 PM
The future looks very bright for Texas roads and Texas in general.

Really? Might want to reconsider.... A different kind of Stone Age (http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/08/19/20092412-a-different-kind-of-stone-age?lite)

I can see Oklahoma doing the same with some of the more remote roads. It actually makes sense to do so.

ou48A
08-19-2013, 04:26 PM
It seems like you're assuming that the growth they're so reliant upon will continue indefinitely. It will not.

Even if the growth doesn’t continue their higher incomes and low state taxes put them in a pretty good potion to maintain what they have for a very long time. But because of their state tax structure the growth will very likely contiune for many decades to come.

But many people on this board utterly fail to grasp the amounts of new oil money that will be flowing into the state of Texas and to many local governments as well. Texas is talking about starting another state endowment form oil. Texas already has an endowment for parts of its higher eduction and it came from OIL.

ou48A
08-19-2013, 04:34 PM
I think I would rather have Oklahoma water, you can keep the roads, thank you very much.

Texas has butt loads of water. Its just not in the right places or sometimes not high quality. It would be much cheaper for the Dallas area to buy our water than to build new pipelines to lakes on the eastern side of their state.... or to construct water treatment plants that could clean up very large amounts of lower quality raw water.

ou48A
08-19-2013, 04:36 PM
And with that growth comes more need for more money on improved infrastructure. Since Texas does it by debt and not cash like Oklahoma, wouldn't it mean they would continue to dig themselves deeper into debt as the need arises?


Texas has the best debt in the USA.. and as a state their debt is in no trouble.

Plutonic Panda
08-19-2013, 04:37 PM
I think I would rather have Oklahoma water, you can keep the roads, thank you very much.What does Oklahoma water have to do with the roads in Texas?

adaniel
08-19-2013, 04:38 PM
^
Texas does not have butt loads of water, not even close. They took us to the freakin Supreme Court for christ sakes, they are that desperate.

Plutonic Panda
08-19-2013, 04:39 PM
And with that growth comes more need for more money on improved infrastructure. Since Texas does it by debt and not cash like Oklahoma, wouldn't it mean they would continue to dig themselves deeper into debt as the need arises?I wouldn't say they would need to keep digging and digging until it collapses, but I think they can pay back some of the current debt along with interest and take out new debt responsibly. I believe it is possible.

Plutonic Panda
08-19-2013, 04:39 PM
If I remember correctly, 635 is being rebuilt by a private company and part of the new highway will be toll. Over a billion dollars of the money that SLC id spending on their transit systems is federal assistance.Yes, they are going to have elevated express toll lanes, 4 total, 2 each way.

Plutonic Panda
08-19-2013, 04:41 PM
It seems like you're assuming that the growth they're so reliant upon will continue indefinitely. It will not.Everything will grow and then recess and then grow and recess. It's a cycle that has happened forever and will continue to happen. Right now, Texas is growing at a rate most people can't(or choose) not to comprehend and they are taking advantage of that by improving their infrastructure.

Plutonic Panda
08-19-2013, 04:42 PM
^
Texas does not have butt loads of water, not even close. They took us to the freakin Supreme Court for christ sakes, they are that desperate.I don't think that means they're desperate, more as just trying to be cheap, like ou48a said, it is cheaper to buy our water.

ou48A
08-19-2013, 05:04 PM
^
Texas does not have butt loads of water, not even close. They took us to the freakin Supreme Court for christ sakes, they are that desperate.

Yes they do and as I said its in the wrong places of not good quality. They have used the cheap water.

ou48A
08-19-2013, 05:05 PM
If their money is going to debt payments and they can't afford to build more or maintain what they already built how do you figure the future looks bright? How much more empirical evidence do we need that the growth model doesn't work? Google 'Texas DOT debt' and you will find every tax group, every newspaper, and nearly every state official sounding the alarm. When you have democrats AND republicans in the state legislature saying they can't afford it anymore there is a real good chance they really can't afford it anymore.On thread after thread you keep repeating that Texas has major debt issue that will impact their ability to maintain their highways. The fact is you are wrong and I have shown this evidence to you.
Texas is borrowing money at near history low interest rates. As I have showed you experts have indicated that Texas is the best debt in the USA.

IMHO you are advancing this false narrative to advance your fantasy on choo choo trains and such.


The real facts are that Texas has SP -AAA credit rating.... that's better than the US Federal Government.

As I have show just for facts before his idea that the state of Texas has a major bond debt problem is just not true.

Texas Energy Boom Fuels Best Performance Since ?09: Muni Credit - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-11/texas-energy-boom-fuels-best-performance-since-09-muni-credit.html)



“Texas is the best credit in the U.S.,”

Snowman
08-19-2013, 05:12 PM
^
Texas does not have butt loads of water, not even close. They took us to the freakin Supreme Court for christ sakes, they are that desperate.

That lawsuit was more about money than water, they can take the same water they went to court over at the Texas boarder the water flows to, if they had won it would have been much cheaper to process and likely taste better.

CaptDave
08-19-2013, 05:17 PM
Yes they do and as I said its in the wrong places of not good quality. They have used the cheap water.

Sure they do.... A Texan tragedy: ample oil, no water | Environment | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/aug/11/texas-tragedy-ample-oil-no-water)