Durant Daily Democrat - TEX 21 discusses the future of Highway 69 75 (http://durantdemocrat.com/pages/full_story/push?article-TEX-21+discusses+the+future+of+Highway+69-75%20&id=21674277&instance=top_stories)

Texoma towns discuss turning Hwy 75/69 into an interstate (http://www.kxii.com/news/headlines/Texoma-towns-discuss-turning-Hwy-7569-into-an-interstate-190469191.html)

Task force working to make U.S. Highway 75 an Interstate | Herald Democrat (http://heralddemocrat.com/sections/news/local/task-force-working-make-us-highway-75-interstate.html)

69/75 runs right through my hometown of Durant, so it'll be interesting to see what comes of this. Most of the highway is already interstate status from downtown Dallas to the Oklahoma border. Not so much in Oklahoma, though. It'll take a TON of work to get the highway to interstate status because 69/75 runs through towns at-grade, with stoplights and such.

This sounds very much like the evolution of US-78 between Memphis, TN and Birmingham, AL.

Many years ago (a decade+?) there was a recognition of the absence of an Interstate-quality route from the central US to the SE. Subsequently, a project referred to as the "Appalachian Corridor" was started, centering on how the existing US-78 could be migrated to Interstate quality. That project became the groundwork for what's called "Future I-22," which is what US-78 is being referred to as it is being rebuilt into a full interstate highway between those two points. The part linking I-22/US-78 into Birmingham is slated for completion next year. Not sure if the west end is literally slated for interconnection into the metro Memphis-area Interstate, but it would sure seem a logical next-step. Having driven the route a few times times (years apart) in the last 10 years, its been amazing to watch the overhaul!

The great part about it is that I-22 is that the completed portions include some of the nicest highway I've driven, and it looks like they're really trying to make this a premiere stretch of interstate, not just some road slapped down between two mile markers. Here's hoping this OK stretch gets a similar treatment!

Anyway, all that minutiae is to say that it sounds like the same kind of attention is being brought to bear on this stretch of road. Could be a great project for that highway and a real boon to that part of the state!

Yep. Highway 71 between Joplin & Kansas City was recently (as of December) designated I-49, which will eventually run its course all the way down to Louisiana where it is currently I-49. I'd say it took 4 years or so to get rid of all the 4 way crossings and build new bridges over the interstate for gaining various access roads and for interchanges as well. Interesting thing about Missouri interstates is that there's marker every .2 miles. Sounds like a waste of money to me.

Interesting thing about Missouri interstates is that there's marker every .2 miles. Sounds like a waste of money to me.

Last fall, I drove through part of Missouri for the first time in probably 30 years, and noticed those .2 mi increment mile markers. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why you'd have those so close! LOL Unless the highway folks just had a nice contract with someone for 5x the average density of milemarkers :)

Wow, this is awesome. Hope they make this really nice.

Would be great for the SE part of the state, although I think a lot of those small towns would balk at the, ahem, lost "law enforcement revenue." I could definitely see the I-45 numbering along what is now US75 through Dallas, Collin, and Grayson counties, TX, then into Oklahoma.

Would be great for the SE part of the state, although I think a lot of those small towns would balk at the, ahem, lost "law enforcement revenue." I could definitely see the I-45 numbering along what is now US75 through Dallas, Collin, and Grayson counties, TX, then into Oklahoma.

The upgrade to interstate-quality would be such a tremendous boon for safety. Those few times I've driven that exact stretch I mentioned above from I-240 in Memphis to the first interstate-quality portion of US-78/I-22 takes you right through a very industrial, very busy, very stoplight-laden stretch of road, with a lot of big transport trucks and freight vehicles. Getting and keeping everyone at highway speeds will be great.

Last fall, I drove through part of Missouri for the first time in probably 30 years, and noticed those .2 mi increment mile markers. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why you'd have those so close! LOL Unless the highway folks just had a nice contract with someone for 5x the average density of milemarkers :)

Its for roadside emergencies. If you break down in the middle of nowhere, would you remember what mile marker you passed last?

The upgrade to interstate-quality would be such a tremendous boon for safety. Those few times I've driven that exact stretch I mentioned above from I-240 in Memphis to the first interstate-quality portion of US-78/I-22 takes you right through a very industrial, very busy, very stoplight-laden stretch of road, with a lot of big transport trucks and freight vehicles. Getting and keeping everyone at highway speeds will be great.

the north connection of I22 will be I269 (the new beltway for memphis and northern memphis)

Would this be a toll road?

these things usually take years to come to fruition though...they've been trying to make US-59 into I-69 for years I think.

Would this be a toll road?Hopefully not.

Last fall, I drove through part of Missouri for the first time in probably 30 years, and noticed those .2 mi increment mile markers. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why you'd have those so close! LOL Unless the highway folks just had a nice contract with someone for 5x the average density of milemarkers :)

Michigan and Ohio have them every .2 miles as well. They rolled them out probably 15 years ago and can definitely come in handy.


Hopefully not.

Why would you say that? This is a relatively low population area...shouldn't people who are using it pay tolls to keep it updated?

Why would you say that? This is a relatively low population area...shouldn't people who are using it pay tolls to keep it updated?ODOT can keep them funded through the taxes people already pay. Interstates do NOT need to be tolled. If this highway were to have a 90MPH speed limit, then I will definitely warm up to the idea of it being tolled. I don't mind seeing some intercity highways being tolled either, but not interstates.

Michigan and Ohio have them every .2 miles as well. They rolled them out probably 15 years ago and can definitely come in handy.



Why would you say that? This is a relatively low population area...shouldn't people who are using it pay tolls to keep it updated?

People using the Turner Turnpike will be paying for the up keep, not anybody down there.

ODOT can keep them funded through the taxes people already pay. Interstates do NOT need to be tolled. If this highway were to have a 90MPH speed limit, then I will definitely warm up to the idea of it being tolled. I don't mind seeing some intercity highways being tolled either, but not interstates.

They can barely afford what we have. That's why major construction projects are dragged out over 7 years. They don't have enough money in the budget to do quick construction. Now add more interstate with no revenue increase?

They can barely afford what we have. That's why major construction projects are dragged out over 7 years. They don't have enough money in the budget to do quick construction. Now add more interstate with no revenue increase?

Actually, the new interstate would cause a revenue decrease. Cars would get better gas mileage without having to stop at lights and it could save someone a 100 miles on the drive. More to maintain with less money to maintain it is not the way we need to be going.

Can you cite your source?are you suggesting people don't pay taxes that go to roads and highways?

Actually, the new interstate would cause a revenue decrease. Cars would get better gas mileage without having to stop at lights and it could save someone a 100 miles on the drive.yeah, let's force people to use more gas and lengthen their commute time, brilliant!

I'm not forcing people to drive anywhere. I am on the side of transportation choice.

They can barely afford what we have. That's why major construction projects are dragged out over 7 years. They don't have enough money in the budget to do quick construction. Now add more interstate with no revenue increase?major construction projects are dragged out because ODOT can't borrow money for road construction. The revenue will increase as the local economy there strengthens from having an interstate going through it. Nearly Every major city has an interstate either running through it or right next to it.

I'm not forcing people to drive anywhere. I am on the side of transportation choice.I am too, but we are talking about a rural community. What other transportation choices do they want?

How to kill a small town:

Step 1) Put an interstate through it
Step 2) done

How to kill a small town:

Step 1) Put an interstate through it
Step 2) doneI'm not understanding the reasoning behind that. Many many small towns have thrived due to interstates. A bunch even abuse it and have cops tagging people for going 5mph over the speed limit, making them hundreds of thousands of dollars, for towns of 1,000 people, that is a lot.

I'm not understanding the reasoning behind that. Many many small towns have thrived due to interstates. A bunch even abuse it and have cops tagging people for going 5mph over the speed limit, making them hundreds of thousands of dollars, for towns of 1,000 people, that is a lot.

Thrived? Name one.

Thrived? Name one.The town where I live, does Edmond work for you?

Need me to be more specific, tell me. Many interstates were built to connect to large cities and I know there were small towns that directly benefited from the interstate system. If you want proof, I'll do some research when I get a chance.

The town where I live, does Edmond work for you?

Need me to be more specific, tell me. Many interstates were built to connect to large cities and I know there were small towns that directly benefited from the interstate system. If you want proof, I'll do some research when I get a chance.

Please do. Edmond did not develop due to interstates. It developed due to its proximity to OKC. We are talking about small towns NOT in proximity to large urban areas.

Please do. Edmond did not develop due to interstates. It developed due to its proximity to OKC. We are talking about small towns NOT in proximity to large urban areas.Ah, yes because OKC is a huge urban area, even after it's urban core was destroyed, Edmond still grew and thrived. I'll do a little research later.

ODOT can keep them funded through the taxes people already pay. Interstates do NOT need to be tolled. If this highway were to have a 90MPH speed limit, then I will definitely warm up to the idea of it being tolled. I don't mind seeing some intercity highways being tolled either, but not interstates.

Many already hit on this...funding is not there for more interstates. That is why major projects like 235/44 and 35/240 are pushed out over many many years.


People using the Turner Turnpike will be paying for the up keep, not anybody down there.

Probably true since I would imagine traffic would be fairly low considering the interstate bypasses Tulsa to east.


major construction projects are dragged out because ODOT can't borrow money for road construction. The revenue will increase as the local economy there strengthens from having an interstate going through it. Nearly Every major city has an interstate either running through it or right next to it.

Interesting. So we should continue raising the debt to build more roads without worrying about actually having the cash to pay for it? So exactly when should we start worrying about being fiscally responsible? I think back to Ohio's GOP governor who recently borrowed against the state's turnpike, which has been profitable and self sufficient for years, to get a couple billion dollars to fund projects no where near it. I'm having a hard time understanding exactly where this love for increasing debt by the billions is coming from from so-called conservatives.


The town where I live, does Edmond work for you?

Need me to be more specific, tell me. Many interstates were built to connect to large cities and I know there were small towns that directly benefited from the interstate system. If you want proof, I'll do some research when I get a chance.

Oh bless your heart. Edmond grew because of being in a major metro area. You mentioned in your next post that they still grew when OKC weakened...that's pretty much the history of every suburb in this country. I would definitely advise on doing more research. Some of the comments you have been making lately really make no sense and are night and day to the ones you use to make. Of course it is also curious on the individual who seems to like every one of your nonsensical posts and where their beliefs lie. I'll chalk this up to just getting bad or biased information from some people that is clouding your better judgement.

Worth a read

http://www.uvm.edu/landscape/learn/impact_of_interstate_system.html

Thrived? Name one.

Even though it's not an interstate, but Kendleton, TX did...for a while

The Biggest Little Speed Trap in Texas - CNN iReport (http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-613081)


The most notorious is Kendleton, a town of 500 southwest of Houston that operated a speed trap on U.S. 59 for more than 20 years. In a series of audits, the comptroller's office found the town failed to pay more than $1.6 million in excess highway fines through the 1990s. Kendleton subsequently declared bankruptcy and disbanded its police force.

Even though it's not an interstate, but Kendleton, TX did...for a while

The Biggest Little Speed Trap in Texas - CNN iReport (http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-613081)

I think you misread their post on what they mean by thrived. The way I took it was how a town has thrived because of the interstate itself, not because of speed trap revenue. The example given by PluPan was Edmond as thriving because of an interstate. So using that context, your response is a little off. :)

One of the things the interstate system did was move commerce from the existing Main St to the off ramps, usually in the form of self-serve gas stations, fast food restaurants, and budget hotels, and lately, Walmart and car lots, and left to rot were the areas the commerce moved from. That is not 'thriving' in my book.

I think you misread their post on what they mean by thrived. The way I took it was how a town has thrived because of the interstate itself, not because of speed trap revenue. The example given by PluPan was Edmond as thriving because of an interstate. So using that context, your response is a little off. :)

I did, but some people thrived in Kendleton (the cops) :)

I did, but some people thrived in Kendleton (the cops) :)

:) And the taxpayers, a bit.

If we had built the interstate system to always begin and end outside of cities, things may have been different. As soon as we started running them through and/or around cities, small towns began to fail.

Many already hit on this...funding is not there for more interstates. That is why major projects like 235/44 and 35/240 are pushed out over many many years.



Probably true since I would imagine traffic would be fairly low considering the interstate bypasses Tulsa to east.



Interesting. So we should continue raising the debt to build more roads without worrying about actually having the cash to pay for it? So exactly when should we start worrying about being fiscally responsible? I think back to Ohio's GOP governor who recently borrowed against the state's turnpike, which has been profitable and self sufficient for years, to get a couple billion dollars to fund projects no where near it. I'm having a hard time understanding exactly where this love for increasing debt by the billions is coming from from so-called conservatives.



Oh bless your heart. Edmond grew because of being in a major metro area. You mentioned in your next post that they still grew when OKC weakened...that's pretty much the history of every suburb in this country. I would definitely advise on doing more research. Some of the comments you have been making lately really make no sense and are night and day to the ones you use to make. Of course it is also curious on the individual who seems to like every one of your nonsensical posts and where their beliefs lie. I'll chalk this up to just getting bad or biased information from some people that is clouding your better judgement.Obviously Edmond has grown with a huge help from OKC. Edmond has grown when OKC was weak and is still growing when it is strong. It doesn't matter, it continues to grow no matter what OKC is doing. I just used Edmond as a first classic example, and the interstate system has benefited Edmond.

You can't immediately fund multi billion dollar projects and the best way to do them is take a bond out, so you can build the whole thing immediately as opposed to waiting and spreading the projects out over a course of x years. Texas has the best credit rating because they pay back their loans on time, I'm sure we could do the same, as long as we don't take out more than we can handle. Tolling INTERSTATES(i only capitalize that to emphasize the word, a system of nationally connected highways that were paid by the tax payers up front, and should remain free) is not the answer.

Now, if cities want toll themselves to pay for highways that have already been paid for by taxpayer dollars, then thats fine, no problemo. I actually think a new loop is needed around Edmond and I would 100% support a toll road.

We will have the cash to pay for it, ODOT is already redoing 235/44 interchange, so obviously the money is there. The only difference is, ODOT is choosing to spread it out over 10 years as opposed to taking out a loan, just building the damn thing, improving traffic flow and potentially saving lives. and paying the money borrowed later. Yes, I know there interest to account for as well.

:) And the taxpayers, a bit.

If we had built the interstate system to always begin and end outside of cities, things may have been different. As soon as we started running them through and/or around cities, small towns began to fail.Let me turn the tables on you, can provide me any examples of this? Direct examples!

Again, I will provide proof later tonight or tomorrow as I am at school and can't spend a huge amount of time getting all the info I need.

Also, I assume that if interstates started and ended at major cities, you would want a law prohibiting building along them, am I right? If not, correct me. So would we also remove interstates as the city grew? What about truckers and cross country drivers that didn't want to stop in a particular city, would we have bypasses for every single city? Seems like that would be more expensive to have bypasses around every city with an interstate running through it and if we didn't build bypasses, well, what about the impact of delayed freight on the trucks?

I think you misread their post on what they mean by thrived. The way I took it was how a town has thrived because of the interstate itself, not because of speed trap revenue. The example given by PluPan was Edmond as thriving because of an interstate. So using that context, your response is a little off. :)Are you suggesting that I was suggesting the towns were thriving because of a piece of concrete? So, if I understand that right, that is the same thing as saying, the streetcar won't benefit anything because what can some pieces of metal do? The interstates move billions possibly even trillions of dollars of commerce a year, it is what the interstates do! The move things, at peoples own comfort and control. I prefer to drive a car to California as opposed to riding a HSR, and I want nice highways to do it on. Just like people that want nice fast trains to move around on, I support HSR and Mass Transit.

I also heavily support widening and expanding highways when it's due, and it seems like there are a few people round these parts who don't want anything to do with highways at all and want every building right up against the street. I know that isn't entirely accurate, but man it sure seems like a hidden agenda is prevalent every now and then. I guess we just have to fundamentally disagree with the idea of tolling interstates, because I really think that is scam. The damn things have already been paid for and should be used by everyone, if they choose.

You can bypass intercity highways with ease and not much time lost, depending on traffic. Traveling from state to state, that's a different story.

Worth a read

http://www.uvm.edu/landscape/learn/impact_of_interstate_system.htmlI'll check it out later.

Let me turn the tables on you, can provide me any examples of this? Direct examples!

Also, I assume that if interstates started and ended at major cities, you would want a law prohibiting building along them, am I right?

The interstate system as it was originally conceived was designed to stop well outside a city and take on the character of an Avenue the rest of the way into town, and the town would not be allowed to grow up around the exit ramps. The concept was know as the 'Townless Highway and Highwayless Town'. Freeways were implemented that way widely in Europe and in the UK to this day. Pick any motorway in the UK and they almost never go through a town and there are few exit ramps, and the ones they have are usually in rural areas well outside of town.

http://massengale.typepad.com/venustas/images/lexicon_town_highway.jpg

The interstate system as it was originally conceived was designed to stop well outside a city and take on the character of an Avenue the rest of the way into town, and the town would not be allowed to grow up around the exit ramps. The concept was know as the 'Townless Highway and Highwayless Town'. Freeways were implemented that way widely in Europe and in the UK to this day.

http://massengale.typepad.com/venustas/images/lexicon_town_highway.jpgThat's cool and all. If a town wants to be that way, then they could create a spur or something. How has that helped Europe, and even more so, Europe is not in good shape, at all! So using them as an example seems a bit off. I am for freedom of what people want, and if they want the top option on your photo, then great, I would probably even opt for that. But, if they want the lower town, then people should be able to live that way. I also think it would be great if we removed a bunch of entries and exits on highways, making them more limited access. I just flat out disagree with the notion of tolling interstates.

How about this, I-40, I-35, I-44, and I know there are about 5 others, I don't think should be tolled. Now, if a tollway were to be built across multiple states with very high speed limits, then I would be all game for one.

http://www.okctalk.com/transportation/35004-toll-every-interstate.html

http://www.okctalk.com/transportation/35004-toll-every-interstate.htmlSorry, I didn't realize how far I had gotten off topic. :p

that graphic displays what you see in many small towns along interstates as "Business Routes" but even still, development springs up along the main interstate and still takes away from the old downtown in some cases.

You can't immediately fund multi billion dollar projects and the best way to do them is take a bond out, so you can build the whole thing immediately as opposed to waiting and spreading the projects out over a course of x years.

So exactly how much debt should we take on? When does it stop? Toll roads give an option to pay as you go essentially, but thats a top for the other thread. Projects are already being spread out over many years because of funding limitations. I-35 has been a great example of that as it has been going on for well over 15 years - which I don't expect you to remember much of that. :)


Texas has the best credit rating because they pay back their loans on time, I'm sure we could do the same, as long as we don't take out more than we can handle.

Would you like to use a lifeline on that statement? You make a lot of claims about how great Texas is (consider moving?) but you don't back up your claims. Texas does not have the best credit rating according to S&P. Texas as an AA+ raiting, the same as Oklahoma. Who has a better, AAA, credit rating? Alaska, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Maryland, Missouri, Nebraska, North Carolina, Utah, Virginia, and Wyoming. No Texas.


Tolling INTERSTATES(i only capitalize that to emphasize the word, a system of nationally connected highways that were paid by the tax payers up front, and should remain free) is not the answer.

I think we all know what the interstates are, but that's for the elementary definition. Tolling interstates has been around since the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956. What did this law also do? It removed federal aid from construction costs for the toll roads. Of course that changed and now federal funds can be used for toll roads. Of course at this point we can't go back and toll existing interstates without congressional approval, but anything new is fair game. The Fed doesn't have the money to pay for the roads we have now, so that makes tolling the next logical funding method. Of course we could follow your plan to just keep racking up Debt, but at some point the investors are going to want their money - in which case more debt will be taken on to pay down other debt.


Now, if cities want toll themselves to pay for highways that have already been paid for by taxpayer dollars, then thats fine, no problemo. I actually think a new loop is needed around Edmond and I would 100% support a toll road.

We are getting too far off course at this point, but I just have to scratch my head at the logic being used to propose yet another loop through Edmond.


We will have the cash to pay for it, ODOT is already redoing 235/44 interchange, so obviously the money is there. The only difference is, ODOT is choosing to spread it out over 10 years as opposed to taking out a loan, just building the damn thing, improving traffic flow and potentially saving lives. and paying the money borrowed later. Yes, I know there interest to account for as well.

So...we have the cash to pay for it...but don't have the cash in reality for it, hence the part of spreading the project out over 10 years. I can't possibly be the only one seeing the logical fallacies in your argument on this.

that graphic displays what you see in many small towns along interstates as "Business Routes" but even still, development springs up along the main interstate and still takes away from the old downtown in some cases.

Wal-Mart is was what mainly takes away from the downtown. If the town is declining in population, together with an entrepreneurial spirit on Main St. that is lacking and not encouraged in some way, that's what happens.

:) And the taxpayers, a bit.

If we had built the interstate system to always begin and end outside of cities, things may have been different. As soon as we started running them through and/or around cities, small towns began to fail.

Can you cite an Oklahoma town or two as an example? I don't think you can cite Perry. It was already a stagnant town when Interstate 35 came by it and now a half century later is still stagnant and not failing. I think how a local town's economy is doing is a bigger factor to take into consideration than an Interstate highway.

To see why many small towns fail, one must look at many factors such as why the town began in the first place. If a town boomed nearly overnight due to some natural resource, it is more likely to fail overnight. Most small towns arose because farmers needed supplies and markets close enough to their farms to be able to ride a horse to town and back in a day. With the cars of today, you don't need towns placed nearly as close together so many small towns are doomed---and it has nothing to do with Wal Mart. Interstates simply exacerbate this situation. However, some towns thrive with interstates such as Ardmore, Elk City, Gainsville, because they have adapted and sold themselves as lower cost alternatives to large cities. This is the same reason OK doesn't need 77 counties or 300 ( or somesuch number) of school districts. There is simply a natural progression that muzt be accepted.....its evolution.

This has been discussed before. With increasing traffic and the general northward growth of DFW it seems to be gaining more traction. This new interstate could be an extension of I-45, and could eventually connect Tulsa to Dallas.

From Wikipedia:
In the early 1990s, some portions of US-75 in Oklahoma were slated to become part of the Interstate Highway System. The 1991 Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act (ISTEA) states that "upon the request of the Oklahoma State highway agency, the Secretary shall designate the portion of United States Route 69 from the Oklahoma-Texas State line to Checotah in the State of Oklahoma as a part of the Interstate System."[3] This would have created an Interstate route from Interstate 40 south to the Texas line, including the portion of US-75 co-signed with US-69 south of Atoka. The legislation was unclear whether the route would enter Texas to connect with or become an extension of Interstate 45. A current plan is to construct a new segment of the Oklahoma Turnpike along the US-69 corridor to bring it to corridor standards.

US 75 in planning phase to become six lanes from Collin County to the Red River. Any significant work on US 75 isn't anticipated to start until 2019.

Today's Grayson County leaders discuss future growth of US 75 (http://www.kxii.com/home/headlines/Todays-Grayson-County-leaders-discuss-future-growth-of-US-75-369279601.html)

I agree with the safety aspect. Back in February 2015, my sister and her husband, along with 3 of their grandchildren were on their way back from the Ft Worth , headed to the Eufaula area in their mini van when they stopped at one of the lights on hwy 69 in Calera and were rearended by an F-250. Impact speed was around 65mph. One look at the remains of their van and it's a wonder anyone survived let alone all of them.

US 75 in planning phase to become six lanes from Collin County to the Red River. Any significant work on US 75 isn't anticipated to start until 2019.

Today's Grayson County leaders discuss future growth of US 75 (http://www.kxii.com/home/headlines/Todays-Grayson-County-leaders-discuss-future-growth-of-US-75-369279601.html)

It's already started. They're expanding for miles currently north of McKinney for a ways north. I don't remember just how far but it's a large project.

^ Yes, but the story was only referring to the portion of 75 within Grayson County.