View Full Version : 2013 Moore Public Schools Bond Package



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Plutonic Panda
02-07-2013, 11:14 PM
Another big one. Wow, it seems OKC is really tackling education and going along good. 120+ million.

Moore Voters To Decide $127 Million School Bond Package - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/21078363/moore-voters-to-decide-127-million-school-bond-package)

Easy180
02-08-2013, 04:25 AM
This should pass pretty easily cause the one negative I always hear about our school district is overcrowding

shawnw
02-08-2013, 02:31 PM
Question, if you live in the Moore school district, but technically live in OKC, will you get a vote?

Midtowner
02-08-2013, 02:56 PM
Question, if you live in the Moore school district, but technically live in OKC, will you get a vote?

You should.

SOONER8693
02-10-2013, 10:48 AM
This should pass pretty easily cause the one negative I always hear about our school district is overcrowding
People on the "West" side of he district have many negatives in mind, regarding misappropriation of funds slanted to the "south" and the district showing favoritism to the "south" over the "east" and "west" side schools in other areas. Could be tight.

Easy180
02-10-2013, 11:03 AM
People on the "West" side of he district have many negatives in mind, regarding misappropriation of funds slanted to the "south" and the district showing favoritism to the "south" over the "east" and "west" side schools in other areas. Could be tight.

I hear ya but I don't believe there is any chance in hellz that a bond adding new schools in Moore will go down

SOONER8693
02-10-2013, 12:43 PM
I hear ya but I don't believe there is any chance in hellz that a bond adding new schools in Moore will go down
You are probably right.

SoonerDave
02-11-2013, 06:47 AM
Question, if you live in the Moore school district, but technically live in OKC, will you get a vote?

Absolutely. Lived in OKC proper nearly all my life, but went to Moore schools, as do my kids. Voted in every bond issue I knew about. The OKC/Moore district crossover thing is a really odd duck, as the Moore school region extends into SW OKC all the way up to SW 82nd.

SoonerDave
02-11-2013, 06:53 AM
You are probably right.

Hmmm...this is based solely on memory - haven't take the time to actually look it up - but I believe a bond went down just a few years ago? Think it didn't hit the state-mandated 60% supermajority. As I said, that's a very sketchy memory, but I believe it has happened.

Will say this much - there's been a lot of, oh, shall we say, increased tensions across the district over what's perceived by some (again, I emphasize perceived, not saying I agree or disagree) as the preferential the treatment of Southmoore primarily at the expense of Old Moore, and whether that "tension" translates to a punitive shootdown of a bond issue remains to be seen. It may well pass, but to say it's a fait accompli is not entirely accurate.

SOONER8693
02-12-2013, 04:24 PM
Hmmm...this is based solely on memory - haven't take the time to actually look it up - but I believe a bond went down just a few years ago? Think it didn't hit the state-mandated 60% supermajority. As I said, that's a very sketchy memory, but I believe it has happened.

Will say this much - there's been a lot of, oh, shall we say, increased tensions across the district over what's perceived by some (again, I emphasize perceived, not saying I agree or disagree) as the preferential the treatment of Southmoore primarily at the expense of Old Moore, and whether that "tension" translates to a punitive shootdown of a bond issue remains to be seen. It may well pass, but to say it's a fait accompli is not entirely accurate.
The increased tensions across the district are serious and run deep. Hard feelings abound on both "West" and "East" side pertaining to "South" moore and many people are tired of things that are overlooked, in many areas, and are ready to do something about it. Now whether that happens remains to be seen. People are looking into financial issues in the district and the district hasn't been exactly forthcoming wiht information. Dragging of feet. A lot of unhappy people.

Easy180
02-12-2013, 09:14 PM
Looks like they both passed in the 70's

SoonerDave
02-13-2013, 06:43 AM
Looks like they both passed in the 70's

Yup. Looks like about ~4K people out of the entire district voted. Kinda pathetic. At 5pm yesterday, I was the 88th voter in my precinct.

The thing about the bonds they just agreed to issue is that the interest rate can ramp up to 10%. Maybe I can sell some blood and buy some of the bonds I'm going to be paying the interest on and get some of my money back.....

I wish the monies WERE targeted to education...but...several million are tagged for the purchase of large buses to transport athletic teams....all while older schools crumble and teachers go along with insulting salaries and administrators just kinda continue to fiddle while the rest of Rome burns....kinda sobering.

Okay, okay, I won't turn this into a rant. I won't. Going away.

Just the facts
02-13-2013, 07:02 AM
I wish the monies WERE targeted to education...but...several million are tagged for the purchase of large buses to transport athletic teams....all while older schools crumble and teachers go along with insulting salaries and administrators just kinda continue to fiddle while the rest of Rome burns....kinda sobering.

Okay, okay, I won't turn this into a rant. I won't. Going away.

Darn good points SoonerDave. One of the biggest problems with education funding is that far too much of it goes to capital expenditures. We have gotten build, abandon, replace down to a science. It is a shame that existing homeowners have to shoulder the burden of growth, when growth itself is sold (and bought) as the solution.

Moore to vote on historic bond Headlines The Norman Transcript (http://normantranscript.com/headlines/x730435912/Moore-to-vote-on-historic-bond)


Residents in the Moore Public School District will decide Tuesday, Feb. 12, on a $126.4 million school bond issue that includes the construction of two elementary schools and one junior high school. If approved, it would be the largest bond issue in the district’s history.
...

Cost to taxpayers would be approximately $12 extra per year for every $100,000 in home value. The tax would last for five years.

...

Moore Public Schools currently has the third largest enrollment for school districts in Oklahoma. Moore Public Schools is growing rapidly, with about 23,000 students and nearly 2,000 new enrollments in the past five years.

With more than 5,000 new home starts expected and continuing business and commercial growth in and near the school district’s boundaries, growth in Moore Public Schools is expected to continue.

You would think that people would wake up to that fact, but they just never seem to.

The Growth Ponzi Scheme - Strong Towns (http://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme/)

G.Walker
02-13-2013, 07:03 AM
Since I live in Moore, and my kids go to Moore Public Schools, I believe this is very good for the district. These additional elementary schools are much needed as the elementary school my kids attend has the largest attendance and its over crowded. Moore is one of the fastest if not the fastest growing city in the metro area...I am glad to see this passed, and I voted.

Just the facts
02-13-2013, 07:13 AM
I guess I have to ask then, why aren't the Moore schools self supporting through existing property taxes? If the system expects constant growth why aren't normal property taxes high enough to fund the growth and stop the over-crowding before it happens? Many schools are over-crowded the day they open. Instead of building 2 elementary schools - build 4.

G.Walker
02-13-2013, 07:19 AM
I guess I have to ask then, why aren't the Moore schools self supporting through existing property taxes. If the system expects constant growth why aren't normal property taxes high enough to fund the growth and stop the over-crowding before it happens? Many schools are over-crowded the day they open.

I really don't think Moore city leaders expected this type of fast growth. From 2000-2010 Moore's population grew at the rate of 34%. Its growing even faster now...

G.Walker
02-13-2013, 07:22 AM
I believe Moore's fast growth is contributed by Moore being a 'family friendly city'. A lot of Moore's economic development is focused on retail, parks, and schools, which all caters to bring in young families to establish roots. The cost of living in Moore is pretty low compared to cities like Norman, and has easier access Oklahoma City. I wouldn't be surprised if the Moore/Norman area is the fastest growing area in the state.

Just the facts
02-13-2013, 07:32 AM
Actually, never mind. Thanks for your answers G.Walker

Plutonic Panda
02-13-2013, 04:40 PM
Moore is a very nice city. My father owns a car dealer/rental dealership there. I go just about everyday and it is really coming along nicely. There's this section of 12th St. that has been taking forever to reconstruct in pavement, which is kind of weird. It seems progress has come to standstill.

Zuplar
02-14-2013, 08:58 AM
I'm glad the bond issue for the schools passed. I live in a part of OKC that has Moore schools, yet the closest "building" is at least 8 miles away. Although I don't currently have kids it seems as though the school is building my direction, close to Mustang, which I can only imagine will in the long term increase property values. I was hoping that the MNTC bond didn't pass as I have never been a huge fan of Vo-Tech's. I really can't complain as I unfortunately forgot to vote. I had the best intentions but due to the snow and everything going on, I just forgot.

I was curious, does anyone know where MPS will be buying land for future schools? I've never seen any areas in which they were looking, although I know it's been mentioned they wanted to acquire some. I think it's smart planning as the Southwest area continues to develop land is only going to become less available and more expensive.

SoonerDave
02-14-2013, 11:58 AM
I guess I have to ask then, why aren't the Moore schools self supporting through existing property taxes? If the system expects constant growth why aren't normal property taxes high enough to fund the growth and stop the over-crowding before it happens? Many schools are over-crowded the day they open. Instead of building 2 elementary schools - build 4.

Because property taxes in and of themselves aren't a mathematically sound mechanism for apportioning/distributing public costs for education. In reality, its a redistribution of income mechanism. It forces two otherwise identical families with two kids attending different schools in the same district to pay entirely different amounts for, theoretically, the same education. I realize property taxes aren't going away, but I've yet to be given a sound argument why my house means I should pay more for my kids' education than someone else's.

There's also a separate argument that it forces people with no kids to pay into a system from which they derive no direct benefit, but that's obviously offset by the counterargument that everyone benefits from an educated populace.

Zuplar
02-14-2013, 12:06 PM
I understand the argument against 2 families paying different prices for education, but at the same time you do still get a good education even if you are one of those that are paying more than the average family pays. Unfortunately it seems as though the more money you make, the more you spend, bigger house you buy, etc, you always wind up paying more.

SoonerDave
02-14-2013, 12:33 PM
I understand the argument against 2 families paying different prices for education, but at the same time you do still get a good education even if you are one of those that are paying more than the average family pays. Unfortunately it seems as though the more money you make, the more you spend, bigger house you buy, etc, you always wind up paying more.

And that's the core of the redistribution mechanism. A larger house implies its owner is "obviously" able to pay more, so its "fair" to take from their pockets and burden them with a tax increase that may be several hundred percent higher than someone living just a few miles away.

If I, as an individual, benefit from public education by virtue of an educated populace in the same general way a single person does (or a couple with no kids, for that matter), then we ideally should bear an equal amount of that base expense in providing it - on a per-capita basis. But the day-to-day education costs are tied more to the actual bodies in the classrooms, which means a case could be made that I, with my two kids, should subsidize more of that direct expense than that theoretical no-child couple/single. And a family with 4 kids should be paying more than my family of 2 kids, and so on. But we know that'll never happen, because those who benefit the most from the subsidy aren't about to support any notion to make the distribution of expense more equitable.

On a side note, does anyone here know if there is a constitutional or legislative cap (or floor, for that matter) on the interest rate that school systems can offer on bonded indebtedness? I was STUNNED to read that the cap on the bonds being issue in Moore was 10%. There was no mention of the starting level, or how that level changes, but that it could escalate to 10% all made me gasp in disbelief. In this economy, an investment paying back 5% is pretty attractive! If there's some broader reason for that, I'd be willing to listen...

Zuplar
02-14-2013, 01:18 PM
Wealth distribution always benefits those at the bottom, yet they tend to be the ones that complain. Taxes in Cleveland county seem to be ridiculous anyways. I can't believe that my property taxes are double what my homeowners insurance is, and I live in a decent size newer home. I was hoping new retail development and the new schools closer would help improve my property value, but the catch to that is that I'd have to pay higher taxes. Luckily the only saving grace is I got a good deal on it to begin with.

And sign me up a 5% return on my money. Six years ago it was pretty common, anymore it seems to be a pipe dream.

bille
02-14-2013, 01:21 PM
I was curious, does anyone know where MPS will be buying land for future schools? I've never seen any areas in which they were looking, although I know it's been mentioned they wanted to acquire some. I think it's smart planning as the Southwest area continues to develop land is only going to become less available and more expensive.

I can't say for the junior high but the elementary school will be located at SE34th and Sunnylane. The land hasn't been purchased yet to my understanding but dirt work began on that area (to build up the pad) probably a year ago. The initial dirt work has been done for quite some time now. My understanding is due to it being a two story school and the fact that it is in a flood zone a lot of build up was necessary. I can't speak for sure as I have no knowledge in that field, all I know is they added A LOT of dirt and built the majority of that corner up several feet. If you've driven by that corner you can't miss it.

Roger S
02-14-2013, 01:24 PM
There's also a separate argument that it forces people with no kids to pay into a system from which they derive no direct benefit, but that's obviously offset by the counterargument that everyone benefits from an educated populace.

That's the category I fall in and I don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth from the educated populace.

Zuplar
02-14-2013, 01:33 PM
I can't say for the junior high but the elementary school will be located at SE34th and Sunnylane. The land hasn't been purchased yet to my understanding but dirt work began on that area (to build up the pad) probably a year ago. The initial dirt work has been done for quite some time now. My understanding is due to it being a two story school and the fact that it is in a flood zone a lot of build up was necessary. I can't speak for sure as I have no knowledge in that field, all I know is they added A LOT of dirt and built the majority of that corner up several feet. If you've driven by that corner you can't miss it.

I actually live on the West side of Will Rogers, so I'm almost never on that side of town. I know the other elementary is going to be off of Portland (will be the closest school to me), and the Junior High off of Penn (which will also be the closest Junior High), but I was actually curious about the land for future schools that was referenced.

SoonerDave
02-14-2013, 01:36 PM
I actually live on the West side of Will Rogers, so I'm almost never on that side of town. I know the other elementary is going to be off of Portland (will be the closest school to me), and the Junior High off of Penn (which will also be the closest Junior High), but I was actually curious about the land for future schools that was referenced.

Don't now about the rest, but my understanding is that the land for the Portland elementary has been owned by the district for years. In fact, there used to be a sign in front of the property eons ago that said "FUTURE HOME - New Moore Elementary School." In fact, I think building that location was deferred a few years ago because of Bonds on May, but I won't swear to that.

Zuplar
02-14-2013, 02:21 PM
Interesting. I wonder if they are going to start work on that school sooner rather than later then.

Zuplar
06-24-2013, 08:25 AM
Anyone know any updates on these schools? I've been curious since the loss of the other 2 elementary. My neighbor is a teacher in Moore and said she was told they would continue to build the new schools, but I haven't seen any kind of dirt work off of Portland for the school.

SOONER8693
06-24-2013, 08:58 AM
Anyone know any updates on these schools? I've been curious since the loss of the other 2 elementary. My neighbor is a teacher in Moore and said she was told they would continue to build the new schools, but I haven't seen any kind of dirt work off of Portland for the school.
Dirt work is underway at SW 164th and Penn for the new Jr. High.

kevinpate
06-24-2013, 09:14 AM
A growing community, loss of two elementary schools ... I do not envy their school board the headaches they face.

Zuplar
06-24-2013, 10:45 AM
Dirt work is underway at SW 164th and Penn for the new Jr. High.

Wow didn't realize that it was going to be so far south. The elementary is going to be off of Portland I know, but is it between 119th and 134th? or further south?

adaniel
06-24-2013, 11:04 AM
A growing community, loss of two elementary schools ... I do not envy their school board the headaches they face.

Just curious...would they not have insurance on those schools?

No doubt its going to be a pain in the short term

SOONER8693
06-24-2013, 11:39 AM
Wow didn't realize that it was going to be so far south. The elementary is going to be off of Portland I know, but is it between 119th and 134th? or further south?I believe you are correct. Brad Fernberg, asst Supt, gave a presentation to our faculty back before the bond election, and I seem to recall that is what he said.

mike1k
06-24-2013, 11:49 AM
The middle school will be built at 14141 S. Pennsylvania...it's on moore schools webpage under 2013 bond info.

mike1k
06-24-2013, 11:52 AM
The new elementary school will be at 12627 S. Portland Ave

SOONER8693
06-24-2013, 12:02 PM
The middle school will be built at 14141 S. Pennsylvania...it's on moore schools webpage under 2013 bond info.
You are right, it does say that. But, when this first came up, a couple of years ago, it was announced to be at 164th and Penn. There currently is a tremendous amount of dirt work and land prep going on at 164th and Penn. You could be right and I'm wrong. I don't know for sure. The location cited on the web site makes more sense, however, it is not a very large partial of land.

euphjay
06-24-2013, 12:47 PM
That dirt work going on at SW 164th and Penn is for a new Ideal Homes community.

Zuplar
06-24-2013, 01:23 PM
Just curious...would they not have insurance on those schools?

No doubt its going to be a pain in the short term

I read something in the paper that said Insurance was covering everything. It's just a lot going on. Moore was already building 3 new schools, now they have to build an additional 2, repair another and from what I've heard the admin building is going to need major repair or replaced.

SOONER8693
06-24-2013, 01:23 PM
That dirt work going on at SW 164th and Penn is for a new Ideal Homes community.
I stand corrected. Thank you.

SOONER8693
06-24-2013, 01:27 PM
I read something in the paper that said Insurance was covering everything. It's just a lot going on. Moore was already building 3 new schools, now they have to build an additional 2, repair another and from what I've heard the admin building is going to need major repair or replaced.
Those buildings were insured. FEMA will also be involved to some degree with the rebuilding of those, after the red tape is dealt with, and it is substantial, the red tape. Moore schools have been and are still being bombarded with donations of all kinds. Financial, gifts, building basketball courts at the affected sites, on and on.

kevinpate
06-24-2013, 04:01 PM
Yeah, I wasn't even lamenting any financial considerations. But when you're a growing community and needing more school space, then lose two schools, and classes are kicking back up under 100 days away, .. even assuming safely cleared sites and bringing in a passle of used modular classrooms, there are still the basics of addressing chow, indoor and outdoor play, potties and admin spaces on top of instruction space reassembled, set in place properly and powered up with HC access, and doing it many times over per site. It's a full out blitz to set up two complete schools, or shuffle folk around into every available nook and cranny at other schools.

As I said, I do not envy them this summer.

Mustangking1
07-17-2013, 09:54 PM
Anyone know if they are still going ahead with the new buildings in the bond issue or are they on hold?

Zuplar
07-19-2013, 04:15 PM
It's bond money. They will have to spend it.

MWCGuy
07-21-2013, 02:07 AM
The bond issue items will likely go on as planned. The buildings damaged in the Tornado will likely be rebuilt with insurance, state and federal funds. For the time being the students will be housed at Central Junior High and a local church. The schools should be open around or about the start of the 2014-2015 school year.

Zuplar
08-12-2013, 02:33 PM
I still haven't seen much on the progress of the new schools. My guess is they really haven't started on them. I understand there has been a lot going on, but I feel as though our tax money should be going where we voted for it too.

SoonerDave
08-12-2013, 06:29 PM
At a district-wide meeting today, it was announced that the two new schools are being postponed while both Plaza Towers and Briarwood Elementary are being rebuilt. It was felt that having four large constructions projects going on at the same time (the two rebuilds plus the two new schools) was not a smart or practical move for the district. Mind you, the monies already earmarked for the new schools in the bond issue remain so earmarked - the projects are just being delayed. The replacements for the destroyed schools are being funded through insurance proceeds.

Zuplar
08-12-2013, 09:11 PM
At a district-wide meeting today, it was announced that the two new schools are being postponed while both Plaza Towers and Briarwood Elementary are being rebuilt. It was felt that having four large constructions projects going on at the same time (the two rebuilds plus the two new schools) was not a smart or practical move for the district. Mind you, the monies already earmarked for the new schools in the bond issue remain so earmarked - the projects are just being delayed. The replacements for the destroyed schools are being funded through insurance proceeds.

This is what I was afraid of. So now we pay higher taxes for something that is delayed. I'd like my property taxes to remain the same until they decide they'd like to start building.

SoonerDave
08-12-2013, 09:15 PM
This is what I was afraid of. So now we pay higher taxes for something that is delayed. I'd like my property insurance to remain the same until they decide they'd like to start building.

You mean taxes, don't you?

Zuplar
08-12-2013, 09:23 PM
You mean taxes, don't you?

Yes, wow, lol, bad typo.

MWCGuy
08-12-2013, 11:42 PM
I graduated from Westmoore in 1995. The Moore District have always been good stewards with tax dollars and it appears they made the right decision. Building too many schools at once can result in quality control issues that are not usually found out about until the school has been open for a year or more.

I have yet to see a bond issue fail in Moore because they spend their money exactly as promised. If the project or expenditure comes in cheaper than what they anticipate they put the funding in trust for other school needs.

The blessing in disguise in all this is kids at Plaza Towers and Briarwood will get new state of the art schools instead of aging schools that were built to the needs of the district in the 70's and 80's.

Easy180
08-13-2013, 04:54 AM
This is what I was afraid of. So now we pay higher taxes for something that is delayed. I'd like my property taxes to remain the same until they decide they'd like to start building.

I agree...How convenient for them to use the F-5 that wiped out a huge chunk of our city, killing children in its path as cover for delaying construction of the new schools

Zuplar
08-13-2013, 07:20 AM
I agree...How convenient for them to use the F-5 that wiped out a huge chunk of our city, killing children in its path as cover for delaying construction of the new schools

There was really zero need to come in here and pull that card. Never was it stated that it was a poor excuse, simply wishing that tax increases could be delayed as well so as to make sure the bond gets used as it intended. I'd hate to see the district sacrifice anything.

Zuplar
08-13-2013, 07:23 AM
I graduated from Westmoore in 1995. The Moore District have always been good stewards with tax dollars and it appears they made the right decision. Building too many schools at once can result in quality control issues that are not usually found out about until the school has been open for a year or more.

I have yet to see a bond issue fail in Moore because they spend their money exactly as promised. If the project or expenditure comes in cheaper than what they anticipate they put the funding in trust for other school needs.

The blessing in disguise in all this is kids at Plaza Towers and Briarwood will get new state of the art schools instead of aging schools that were built to the needs of the district in the 70's and 80's.

This is good to know, and I agree with your last comment. It's unfortunate the life loss, but the silver lining if you can look at it that way is that all facilities being rebuilt will be top of the line and safer for the incoming children. There has been so much donated that I anticipate that the district will take advantage of this and use the money to better the district.

Easy180
08-13-2013, 07:27 AM
There was really zero need to come in here and pull that card. Never was it stated that it was a poor excuse, simply wishing that tax increases could be delayed as well so as to make sure the bond gets used as it intended. I'd hate to see the district sacrifice anything.

Sorry your post came across as a little ridiculous given the circumstances...No need to worry as there is zero chance the city will divert funds from schools...zero

Zuplar
08-13-2013, 07:30 AM
Sorry your post came across as a little ridiculous given the circumstances...No need to worry as there is zero chance the city will divert funds from schools...zero

I'm not wanting it diverted, would just like to see the tax increase delayed until they actually decide to start on the schools.

Zuplar
10-15-2013, 02:37 PM
Glad to finally see something about this. I guess they didn't end up getting delayed like someone had said.

News | Moore Monthly (http://mooremonthly.com/news/new-construction-in-progress-for-schools-and-gyms)

Zuplar
12-11-2013, 10:35 AM
Elementary on Sunnylane to be called Timbercreek Elementary and the one on S Portland to be called Soutlake Elementary. I haven't seen anything on what the districts will be for these schools, but I'm sure those will be established at a later time.

Zuplar
01-18-2014, 08:37 PM
Just curious if anyone has seen anything on the boundaries. I saw on the agenda that was to be talked about at the last meeting, so was curious if anyone had some insider info. I'm sure it will be out there once they release the minutes.