Forget politics, here's what's wrong with America...


Jan 8 2013 04:37 PM ET

Good lord, she’s more popular than ever: TLC’s Sunday airing of Here Comes Honey Boo Boo: A Very Boo Halloween attracted the show’s biggest audience to date.

More than 3.1 million people tuned into the “holladay” special — besting all season one episodes of Here Comes Honey Boo Boo. The special also ranked No. 2 among all ad-supported cable in its Sunday at 9 pm. slot. In the episode, Honey Boo Boo’s mom June faced her phobia of mayonnaise, she dyed her hair blonde and dressed as Marilyn Monroe. The family also tried on costumes in a costume shop and went in a corn maze — where June decided to pee.

In November, TLC announced there would be four “holladay” specials featuring Honey Boo Boo’s clan. The next one involves Thanksgiving and will air on Jan. 13.

We are getting closer and closer to this movie

Idiocracy - Trailer (Idiocracy) - IMDb (http://m.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi1622016281)

We are getting closer and closer to this movie

Idiocracy - Trailer (Idiocracy) - IMDb (http://m.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi1622016281)

Dude...that movie is awesome. Dax Shepard is the best dumbest guy and Luke Wilson being the smartest guy...great comedy.

Honey Boo Boo is a train wreck to begin with, almost as bad as Duck Dynasty, but at least the mom isn't totally wacko. There was a story where she disclosed all money from the show goes directly into trust accounts for all the kids that they can access only for school at 18 and everything else at 21.

What next? Jackass 4?

I think Honey Boo Boo is Jackass 4

Read "The Marching Morons" by C.M. Kornbluth. It makes you wonder.

I agree with--and "Like"--everything that has been posted on this thread to this point. I have to wonder who is going to jump in with some feverish denial or argument with these observations. I have often done brief Google searches for opinions on the question: "Are People Getting Dumber?" There is a lot of evidence out there indicating the answer to that question is "Yes".

Still . . . I have to wonder: What is the root cause of the symptoms of increasing stupidity? (e.g. the popularity of Honey Boo Boo and Honey Boo Boo Marathons on TLC--The Lamebrain Channel).

Still . . . I have to wonder: What is the root cause of the symptoms of increasing stupidity? (e.g. the popularity of Honey Boo Boo and Honey Boo Boo Marathons on TLC--The Lamebrain Channel).

Wow. This is so close to a loaded question that I should probably not answer it :) But I'm going to try very carefully...

First and foremost, at least part of the BooBoo business is like rubbernecking at a car wreck. No one wants to see it, but everyone slows down and looks. Fortunately, however, that will pass.

As for Boo Boo herself...I dunno. Keep in mind they're not broadcasting anything that isn't already out there. BooBoo has lived in that part of the country for a lot longer than TLC's cameras. So don't be tricked into the notion that its a recent discovery.

Why are we getting more stupid, though?

Well, for me, I think the root of most of it is the breakdown of the family. We have kids raising kids because parents have checked out. Dads have been marginalized (even trivialized) in contemporary society. Heck, they're routinely ridiculed and portrayed as idiots in popular TV and media. More broadly, authority in general is mocked and ridiculed. Now, is that broad social fact a direct cause of the dumbing down of the country? No. But its darned sure, IMHO, an indirect cause.

If you don't have parents, you have "Home Alone" in too much reality, where Kevin sits at home on the easy chair "Eating junk and watching rubbish," with no one there to say "No, don't do that." But society even ridicules folks who say "No" at any level, misappropriating the concept of personal rights and liberties as a license to do as one wishes carte-blanche. And when no one says "no," not even the parents with the authority to do so, Kevin grows up from a fictional comedy movie character to a social parasite - because all he's been fed is garbage. It isn't "Kevin's" fault.

I realize I'm taking a vivid rhetorical liberty between the Kevin character and society, but hopefully the intent to illustrate a point is clear. I hear my wife tell me stories about how parents at her school, if they show up, are often loathe to come to parent-teacher conferences because their kiddo is having problems, or is a behavior problem, or whatever, and they don't want to deal with it. They feel its the schools problem. Or its ADD. Or its not their problem. Or they're too busy. Or they can't be bothered.

When the student is never compelled to learn, to behave, to interact properly with broader society, when the notion of learning is couched in the implicit requirement and expectation that the learning be "fun," anything that requires effort, hard work, discipline, and dedication becomes stuff of the nerds, the social outcasts, the "uncool" side of society. Then it becomes fairly obvious why society seems to be getting dumber - because it unquestionably IS becoming dumber. They're not learning. They're not learning because no one makes them learn. Those kids grow up with WalMart for a brain. And I won't even go into the fact that, as a society, we've chosen to thumb our nose at God - again, in the family...but that delves dangerously into the theological and political, and I'm simply not going to do that here.

Bottom line, when society devalues the family, it devalues itself. With its simplistic, throwaway divorce laws and twisted notions of parental authority, the devaluation is becoming socially engrained. Hopefully, some of these kids fall into the sphere of influence of those who do have the ability, resources, time, and skill, to compel them to overcome their environment and engage in the discipline and effort necessary to learn and become productive members of society. For the rest, they go along unfettered, unbothered, untouched, and it takes barely a generation or two before society pays the price.

And we're starting to pay it right now. Dearly. BooBoo's popularity and existence are merely symptoms.

And we're starting to pay it right now. Dearly. BooBoo's popularity and existence are merely symptoms.

Good analysis. Still . . . I don't think Honey Boo Boo is any more stupid than Scooby-Doo, The Newlywed Game or The Dating Game. I actually TRIED to sit through an entire episode of The Dating Game, back in the day, and could physically and mentally not bring myself to do so. It was like I felt brain cells dying every second that my eyes and ears were focused on the screen and I had to get up and change the channel (this was in the pre-remote days). I probably should mention that about one minute of Youtube viewing of Honey Boo Boo is more than I can stomach. =)

BTW: You mentioned some of the influences of modern education (i was a teacher/instructor for several years). This opinion is neither liberal nor conservative yet it is my observation that while building self-esteem in children it is important--in nearly all cases--for them to have that self-esteem based on or supported by something they actually know or can do that goes beyond artifically inflating their little egos. I also think that the overapplication of medications to keep them artificially pacified in the classrooms may be a factor here. (don't anyone get all defensive and mad about that statement, it is simply a conjecture based upon personal observation of a number of "at-risk" youth after they fell through the cracks of "mainstream" school philosophies.)

I wonder if They started mandating the viewing of "Idiocracy" in the public schools if it would make a positive difference in the educational outcomes. =)

Edited to Add:
Perhaps this needs to be re-introduced to The Curriculum?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloyd

And here is something, for the Visual/Kinestheic Learner, on the same topic.
(it requires some sort of "Flash Player" version that isn't on my old, hand-hewn, computer. i did, however, see the show in "real time" on "Create" Channel. =)
http://video.pbs.org/video/1772022559/

I think the difference is that Honey Boo Boo is pitched at adults. Scooby Doo was for kids and the Dating Game, Newlywed Game was sort of a mindless thirty minute show people watched between the news and the Movie of the Week. Admittedly, all are stupid.

I think the difference is that Honey Boo Boo is pitched at adults. Scooby Doo was for kids and the Dating Game, Newlywed Game was sort of a mindless thirty minute show people watched between the news and the Movie of the Week. Admittedly, all are stupid.

I think this is an important point. At least the kids Scooby Doo depicted were working together constructively to find the "bad guys." Heck, the kids were portrayed as reasonably smart, which is more than what I can say for 90% of what passes on some of the "tweenage" TV show cable channels these days. Heck, those things have gotten so dumb my own kids (presumably still within the target demographic) won't watch them because they're "too stupid."

Another show that bugs the fire out of me is "Teen Mom." I won't generally watch it (because I loathe it), but my wife has the occasional morbid curiosity for it, and it just makes me kinda throw up in my mouth a bit. It's a showcase of precisely what I talked about earlier - the cheapening and destruction of the family. I admit I've watched enough of it to know that maybe one of the kids on that show realizes just how thoroughly they've screwed up their lives, and at least tries to make the best out of it. Small consolation for the rest, many of whom end up on some variety of public assistance...

I think the difference is that Honey Boo Boo is pitched at adults. Scooby Doo was for kids and the Dating Game, Newlywed Game was sort of a mindless thirty minute show people watched between the news and the Movie of the Week. Admittedly, all are stupid.

I am still undecided on "The Gong Show" (Chuck "X-CIA" Barris and all) . . .
Yet, I do know that "The Beverly Hillbillies" and it's spinoff, "Green Acres", served to increase the national consciousness about the plight of ruralites on TV.
The only positive thing I can say about that other "Paul Green"? spinoff--"Petticoat Junction"--is that it gave Bea Benadarette something to do and provided an opportunity to annoy Torea all these years later. Uncle Joe was one of the most slovenly, stupid, lazy and anti-white, stereotypes ever. But my offensive reference was to the whistle on The Hooterville Express. =)

Cultural Decline: (maybe someone could come up with a Downton Abbey/Fawlty Towers) for the New Millenium?)

I think this is an important point. At least the kids Scooby Doo depicted were working together constructively to find the "bad guys." Heck, the kids were portrayed as reasonably smart, which is more than what I can say for 90% of what passes on some of the "tweenage" TV show cable channels these days. Heck, those things have gotten so dumb my own kids (presumably still within the target demographic) won't watch them because they're "too stupid."

Another show that bugs the fire out of me is "Teen Mom." I won't generally watch it (because I loathe it), but my wife has the occasional morbid curiosity for it, and it just makes me kinda throw up in my mouth a bit. It's a showcase of precisely what I talked about earlier - the cheapening and destruction of the family. I admit I've watched enough of it to know that maybe one of the kids on that show realizes just how thoroughly they've screwed up their lives, and at least tries to make the best out of it. Small consolation for the rest, many of whom end up on some variety of public assistance...

Have you ever availed yourself of the opportunity to watch reruns of "Rocky and Bullwinkle"?
"Fractured Fairytales" is just as funny--and cerebral--now as it was then. =)

Please do not misinterprete that as any sort of disagreement with your quoted opinion on these matters. =)

almost as bad as Duck Dynasty
This is a great show....HAPPY, HAPPY, HAPPY

Have you ever availed yourself of the opportunity to watch reruns of "Rocky and Bullwinkle"?
"Fractured Fairytales" is just as funny--and cerebral--now as it was then. =)

Please do not misinterprete that as any sort of disagreement with your quoted opinion on these matters. =)

Not at all!!

"Rocky and Bullwinkle" was some of the most brilliantly written and conceived adult (meaning intelligent, not dirty) humor targeted simultaneously for kids ever assembled. Watched it with great chuckles as a kid, and reflect happily on it as an adult. I've made numerous clumsy attempts to leverage "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat" into something funny in my own life...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but the folks who remember Bullwinkle at least appreciate the effort.

I think this is an important point. At least the kids Scooby Doo depicted were working together constructively to find the "bad guys." Heck, the kids were portrayed as reasonably smart, which is more than what I can say for 90% of what passes on some of the "tweenage" TV show cable channels these days. Heck, those things have gotten so dumb my own kids (presumably still within the target demographic) won't watch them because they're "too stupid."

Another show that bugs the fire out of me is "Teen Mom." I won't generally watch it (because I loathe it), but my wife has the occasional morbid curiosity for it, and it just makes me kinda throw up in my mouth a bit. It's a showcase of precisely what I talked about earlier - the cheapening and destruction of the family. I admit I've watched enough of it to know that maybe one of the kids on that show realizes just how thoroughly they've screwed up their lives, and at least tries to make the best out of it. Small consolation for the rest, many of whom end up on some variety of public assistance...

You know what freaks me out? And I mean FREAKS ME OUT. It is the way we are turning our little girls into pink princesses, divas, etc. What in the world are we thinking? A sassy little girl with her hand on her hip, displaying no empathy or consideration for the wants or needs of others, demanding that she be given attention and that others fetch and carry is met with delight.

OMG! Can you imagine being married to that child once she gets to be about thirty five? I'm not saying that these little darlings can't grow up to be productive citizens with loving hearts but encouraging being high maintenance and praising her for being self centered and "pretty" is liable to lead to one of those large young women at Wal Mart dressed in pink leopard tights who honestly believes she really is a diva - the proof being the four children she has had with four different guys who told her so...

Not at all!!

"Rocky and Bullwinkle" was some of the most brilliantly written and conceived adult (meaning intelligent, not dirty) humor targeted simultaneously for kids ever assembled. Watched it with great chuckles as a kid, and reflect happily on it as an adult. I've made numerous clumsy attempts to leverage "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat" into something funny in my own life...sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but the folks who remember Bullwinkle at least appreciate the effort.

Run this up the flagpole [at a management meeting] sometime and see who salutes:
"Hey Rocky! Watch me pull a policy out of my ass!"

You probably should be careful about picking the right moment, and the right room, but timing is what comedy is all about. =)

You know what freaks me out? And I mean FREAKS ME OUT. It is the way we are turning our little girls into pink princesses, divas, etc. What in the world are we thinking? A sassy little girl with her hand on her hip, displaying no empathy or consideration for the wants or needs of others, demanding that she be given attention and that others fetch and carry is met with delight.

OMG! Can you imagine being married to that child once she gets to be about thirty five? I'm not saying that these little darlings can't grow up to be productive citizens with loving hearts but encouraging being high maintenance and praising her for being self centered and "pretty" is liable to lead to one of those large young women at Wal Mart dressed in pink leopard tights who honestly believes she really is a diva - the proof being the four children she has had with four different guys who told her so...

I think that now is the time to start investing in that company that will begin producing the next generation of helicopter soccer mom baseball caps--with the adjustment strap in the back through which a ponytail can be inserted--that look more like tiaras than . . . well . . . baseball caps.

Run this up the flagpole [at a management meeting] sometime and see who salutes:
"Hey Rocky! Watch me pull a policy out of my ass!"

You probably should be careful about picking the right moment, and the right room, but timing is what comedy is all about. =)

I *can* tell you about a real-life incident I heard about once...at an HS football game a couple of years ago...game's going on, one team is getting a lot of flags, home team not (pretty typical HS ballgame), and then some guy on the visitor's side yells "Hey, Rocky, Watch Me Pull a Penalty Out of My Hat! HOLDING!"

Supposedly broke up the crowd on that side of the stadium.

Story was so ridiculous I almost have to believe it was true.

Those hats I mentioned could have a little whirly-gig deal on the top that could serve to keep both the batteries of the earring/earlobe-stretcher implanted cellphone and the fore-brain microchip charged. After all, Tom Terrific only had an upside down funnel on his head to create miracles . . . =)

P.S. Not only do I "have" to believe your story is true. I WANT to believe it! =)
In fact, I'm almost tempted to go out and get a tattoo to celebrate the occasion!
It will be a representation of that poster in Fox Muldars office: The Truth Is Out There. =)

A sassy little girl with her hand on her hip, displaying no empathy or consideration for the wants or needs of others, demanding that she be given attention and that others fetch and carry is met with delight.

I know what would have happened growing up in my family if one of the girls did that.

I know what would have happened growing up in my family if one of the girls did that.

Let me guess . . . Instead of cutting her loose for Medical Experimentation (monty python sketch) . . . How about . . . Giving her into service for the staff at Downton Abbey (also pbs) =)

Thanks, OP, for letting me know that I didn't divert The Topic.

(did i forget: "Get Thee to a Nunnary!!!" or "Hie Thee Posthaste to Stepford!!" . . . ?)

(brace yourself for unauthorized and insensitive use of the term 'the girls' . . . remember mitt romney and the binders = )

"Mitt Romney and The Binders" . . .
(what a great name for an all-girl rock and roll band)
~ Dave Berry (i know . . . Barry . . .)

Can you imagine being married to that child once she gets to be about thirty five? I'm not saying that these little darlings can't grow up to be productive citizens with loving hearts but encouraging being high maintenance and praising her for being self centered and "pretty" is liable to lead to one of those large young women at Wal Mart dressed in pink leopard tights who honestly believes she really is a diva - the proof being the four children she has had with four different guys who told her so...

I was married to that person - it is far worse than you imagine Penny. Entitlement and greed to an extreme degree and it was hell to pay when I attempted to head off those qualities in her angel boy. She also did not fit your image - she only has one child because she "got it right the first time" and all the rest of us with "litters" couldn't manage the same. But she is pretty good at the short term con - be careful who you hire as a real estate agent! As I told my attorney, "No good deed goes unpunished" with people like that.

I forgive give folk their HBB, and ask only that they kindly do the same for me when I decide to share some quality family time with Phil, Si, Ms Kay and all their lil' ducklings.

OK, they ain't truly my kin ... but they be close 'nuf I'll count 'em.

Wow . . . (sorry, amigo, best response i could muster there in the face of all that honesty)
Not to make light of any of it, perhaps a clue to "What's Wrong With America" is the possibility that "Venus and Mars" are NOT all right tonight?

(On account of women--from Dolly Madison to Hillary Clinton--really do pull the strings in the background of nearly every endeavor from choosing how "glittery" something should be to shades/hues of paint?)

Obviously, "If Mama Ain't Happy, Ain't NoBody Happy" is A Given . . . Yet when "Mama" starts thinkin' and actin' like "Honey Boo Boo" is some sort of role-model for the future then it's time to draw the line. Isn't it? 'scuse me: "Ain't It?" =)

On the other hand . . . as Red Green and the rest of the Possums are so fond of saying . . .
"I'm a man . . . and I can change . . . if i want to . . . i guess . . ." =)

Frankly, I am glad that "Mom's" quit wearing dresses and pearl necklaces to do housework.
Like Theodore and Wally's housekeeper.

And I am thankful, every day, for the fact that I was blessed with a Real angel . . . The second time around.

Changing this so that it won't be out in cyberspace, causing trouble. :)

RM / PQ - It's fine now, I have a good attorney and things wrap up very soon. Definitely not my puppy - whew!

Not going to say anything else. That is more than I have publicly mentioned before - going back to my "rising above" altitude now. :)

:backtotop

I forgive give folk their HBB, and ask only that they kindly do the same for me when I decide to share some quality family time with Phil, Si, Ms Kay and all their lil' ducklings.

OK, they ain't truly my kin ... but they be close 'nuf I'll count 'em.

Uh . . . HBB?
(i'm so dumb that i "don't know what a whole lotta nines are" (lenny bruce measurement analogy)
(not t' mention Javaskirts? vs Java)
(or the real meaning of BFFs)

[Voiceover on The Newz] . . .
And this is but a microchasm of all "what's wrong with America" . . .


Not going to say anything else. That is more than I have publicly mentioned before - going back to my "rising above" altitude now.
BTW: Is the correct expression of intended meaning "attitude" or "altitude"?

(english is a bitch, ain't it? all that pesky stuff "we rebelled against" way back when, et. and so forth =)

Kudos to Keyword from Kevin: "Kindness" (the missing piece to restoration of "the republic" as envisioned by . . . those dudes (and their wives) way back when.=)

All Things Considered . . .
There is far too little Jean Shepherd in The Collective Mind than there oughta' be . . .
(except, of course, for "A Christmas Story" =)

(from "radio" "the theater of the mind" c.'62)
["unnecessary pictures added by anon" c. whenever]
7QF8C6tkA7I
(don't worry about clicking the anti-embedding link . . . or do =)

I think you can argue the point from several angles, as has been done above. Whether it's god or morality or the demise of the nuclear family and subsequent efforts by the state to replace what's missing, the inexorable slide toward stupid is gathering speed at an alarming rate. Stupid is now as ubiquitous as dark matter, except it won't hold this universe together very much longer, I fear.

Part of it is the abdication of parental responsiblity in any part of their children's rearing except to bitch at someone else for doing it incorrectly or to give them the latest electronic toy to replace the hard, often exhausting work of actually parenting. Another part of it is a natural offshoot of that. Since we no longer wish to be parents, we have ordered the schools to do that, and they were never designed for that function. Teachers are supposed to impart knowledge and teach not only facts, but the process of learning itself: to synthesize, to take two knowns and extrapolate an unknown, to follow a single thought through to a logical conclusion, to know which questions to ask, etc.

My oldest daughter, a 4.0 valedictory scholar at a large metro suburban high school, now attending OU and living with me is woefully lacking in her knowledge of American history. I was appalled to learn by accident while watching some "learning channel" fluff about two yokels with metal detectors, that she had no idea of what the Whiskey Rebellion was, when it was, and what it meant to the infant republic. Of course, those are teachable moments that one should seize when they fall into one's lap, but still, what the hell are they teaching in US history?

My copies of the Federalist and Anti-federalist papers are dog-eared and highlighted, with margin notes, and yet, it is unlikely that one student out of a hundred could tell you what they were, what their purpose was, who the primary players were, and what document they sought to replace.

The buzz phrase of the day, used by both left and right to characterize all who disagree with them is "low information voter". Depending upon who you ask, it's a euphemism for Tea Party members, or a 'dog whistle' , a thinly veiled racial epithet. However, it's safe to say that we're a low information society. Each new advance in technology is newer, brighter, faster, and it has taught us, conditioned us, even, to go for the immediate answer, the faster the better. Wikintelligence has replaced critical thought and it encourages and rewards the facile, the sound bite, the 143 character or less answer, and life just doesn't work that way.

Learning is a ritual, just like brushing one's teeth, or a pitcher's superstitious warmup before a championship game. It is an experience in and of itself, to be savored and indulged in, not a wham-bam-thank-you-maam, one-off proposition. It's the same reason I don't use a Kindle or Nook. I *like* the ritual of reading itself, the opening of the book, the smell of the paper and ink and age, the feel of the pages under my fingers, and the rustle of the turning pages, the progress through the book itself as noted (in my library) by the ever-progressing dogears moving left to right.

We've stripped everything down to it's barest, basest, most superficial element and in doing so, removed most of the value of having done it in the first place. Condensed milk, condensed books, condensed conversations, no long sonnets, just "yo, Juliet holla atcha boy!"

America is a victim of her own collective short attention span. We're bored with the destination before we arrive and forget that it's, ultimately, about the journey.

America is a victim of her own collective short attention span. We're bored with the destination before we arrive and forget that it's, ultimately, about the journey.

This.

And this:


Learning is a ritual, just like brushing one's teeth, or a pitcher's superstitious warmup before a championship game. It is an experience in and of itself, to be savored and indulged in, not a wham-bam-thank-you-maam, one-off proposition.

Uh . . . HBB?
(i'm so dumb that i "don't know what a whole lotta nines are" (lenny bruce measurement analogy)
(not t' mention Javaskirts? vs Java)
(or the real meaning of BFFs)

[Voiceover on The Newz] . . .
And this is but a microchasm of all "what's wrong with America" . . .


BTW: Is the correct expression of intended meaning "attitude" or "altitude"?

(english is a bitch, ain't it? all that pesky stuff "we rebelled against" way back when, et. and so forth =)

Kudos to Keyword from Kevin: "Kindness" (the missing piece to restoration of "the republic" as envisioned by . . . those dudes (and their wives) way back when.=)

All Things Considered . . .
There is far too little Jean Shepherd in The Collective Mind than there oughta' be . . .
(except, of course, for "A Christmas Story" =)

(from "radio" "the theater of the mind" c.'62)
["unnecessary pictures added by anon" c. whenever]
7QF8C6tkA7I
(don't worry about clicking the anti-embedding link . . . or do =)I won't and I must thank you for posting a video I will never watch. Because, for the life of me, I just don't feel like navigating to YouTube. Primarily due to the Chinese government and you knowing embedding was disabled, but another video wasn't "in" the works. But, that's okay. :)

What's wrong is simply that we have more tv slots than we have money to make quality programming for. So with that comes more desire for cheap-as-dirt programming to fill it. Since we know reality shows cost pennies compared to real shows, we're seeing a lot more of than than when there were fewer channels and more money in them to spread around. It's not a dumbing of America, it's just over-saturation of the media market. TLC figured out what was best for their bottom line years ago, and that was finding trainwrecks and passing it off as "learning."

Awfully stupid (and just plain awful) tv shows have always existed, we just have more exposure now with more than 100 times the channels that we used to have. We're not getting objectively stupider as a country, just more aware of the stupid things that make a buck because people like mindless entertainment.

Not sure at all what it says about me that I truly detest nearly every 'reality' show that has ever been dreamed up, but I find myself taping Duck Dynasty and Lizard Lick ... in series mode.

What's wrong is simply that we have more tv slots than we have money to make quality programming for. So with that comes more desire for cheap-as-dirt programming to fill it. Since we know reality shows cost pennies compared to real shows, we're seeing a lot more of than than when there were fewer channels and more money in them to spread around. It's not a dumbing of America, it's just over-saturation of the media market. TLC figured out what was best for their bottom line years ago, and that was finding trainwrecks and passing it off as "learning."

Awfully stupid (and just plain awful) tv shows have always existed, we just have more exposure now with more than 100 times the channels that we used to have. We're not getting objectively stupider as a country, just more aware of the stupid things that make a buck because people like mindless entertainment.

And its precisely that wave of test-pattern-quality programming that has, for the first time, led me to really think about why on earth I'm paying what I'm paying for umpteen channels of stuff I *NEVER, EVER* watch. Sometimes I think if I had ESPN, Food Network, all the locals, and maybe just two or three other channels, I could ditch the rest...

We have basic Cox Cable (no premium channels). From time to time I do a little test. When a commercial comes on I start surfing for something else to watch. It is amazing how many times there is an ad running on every single channel (except, of course, PBS or TCM.) And THIS is just one more thing that is wrong with America. (i know . . . i know . . . if it wasn't for the ads we wouldn't have Here Comes Honey Boo Boo, Say Yes to The Dress, The Kardashians, Duck Dynasty, et. ad. infinitum.)

We have basic Cox Cable (no premium channels). From time to time I do a little test. When a commercial comes on I start surfing for something else to watch. It is amazing how many times there is an ad running on every single channel (except, of course, PBS or TCM.) And THIS is just one more thing that is wrong with America. (i know . . . i know . . . if it wasn't for the ads we wouldn't have Here Comes Honey Boo Boo, Say Yes to The Dress, The Kardashians, Duck Dynasty, et. ad. infinitum.)

They time their ads breaks carefully enough so that people can't jump ship to other shows during the ad breaks.

They time their ads breaks carefully enough so that people can't jump ship to other shows during the ad breaks.
Does "jumping ship" include picking up the Blue Ray remote, turning on the player, picking up the TV remote, changing the Source to that player, scrolling to Netflix and clicking to the first program in the Instant Que? (a program that is inevitably educational, edifying and entertaining, sometimes all three at the same time.=)

Does "jumping ship" include picking up the Blue Ray remote, turning on the player, picking up the TV remote, changing the Source to that player, scrolling to Netflix and clicking to the first program in the Instant Que? (a program that is inevitably educational, edifying and entertaining, sometimes all three at the same time.=)

I have several different series on my Netflix instant queue that I switch to when TV sucks, which is quite often.

I don't think God or the lack thereof is the problem. People have always been and will continue to be stupid no matter what religion they follow or don't follow. Just because someone identifies as "religious" doesn't mean they're smart or have a working moral/ethical compass.

I think another big problem with Americans is plain old laziness and, in a lot of cases, apathy. Especially among teenagers, who seem a lot dumber, lazier, and more superficial than the members of my generation (I'm about to turn 30). Sure, we had stupid fads and did half-brained things, but these kids are particularly nasty about whether or not they got an iPhone for Christmas or whatever. They use Twitter to spew out every half-baked thought that springs to their feeble little minds. I guess it might not be that teenagers are more stupid, it's just that it's no longer confined to their private diaries and is out in the open where anyone can see it.

Also, let's face it: the Americans that have jobs usually work a lot of hours, often at emotionally draining, stressful jobs. If you want to have kids and also pay a mortgage, car payments, etc. without going on assistance, you pretty much have to have both spouses working. I think a lot of parents are either too overwhelmed with work, too lazy, or too dumb to parent effectively, so they try to make up for it by buying crap for their kids. And there was a lot of backlash against overly harsh "discipline", so a lot of people take it too far in the other direction and try to be their kids' friend instead of an authority figure.

Then there's the culture of "everyone's a special snowflake and deserves to be a rock star", and "everyone's a winner", and being too afraid to let kids lose at something once in a while because we're afraid to hurt their fragile little egos. They grow up thinking they're hot s@#$ and feeling like the world owes them something. They aren't taught much at school and often don't learn much at college either because they take the opportunity for granted.

Another problem with our society is that we expect an awful lot of people, especially women. Burn-out is a very real thing. You're expected to work 40+ hours a week at a job that makes a lot of money, raise kids, keep an immaculate, well-decorated house, cook all your own healthy meals, dress nice, have nice hair, nice makeup, go to church (in some cases), drive shiny new cars, take up crafting or whatever hobby is "cool" or "sophisticated" at the time...the list goes on and on. Frankly, most people aren't cut out to live a life like that. We're not all Type A.

As for entertainment, I don't think it's gotten more insipid, necessarily. I think people just forgot about all the really stupid TV shows from the past. With entertainment, time separates the wheat from the chaff and we only remember the good stuff. I do think that reality TV is a blight, but the secret to its success is mostly economic-- they want to make safe investments. Same thing with movies. That's why we keep seeing so many sequels and remakes. The industry is playing it safe and name recognition will get butts in the seats. Most people simply don't think about what they watch, and most people also don't like change and like to play it safe. The entertainment industry knows that and will exploit it as long as it continues to be true. The #1 objective of a business is to stay in business, after all.

So yes, a lot of people are watching drivel like Honey Boo Boo, but I guarantee that a lot of them are just tuning in to see what the fuss is about, or they keep watching out of morbid curiosity, like watching a trainwreck. Do I wish it wasn't the case? Of course, but the fad will pass and people will forget about it and then the next vapid thing will come along, like it always does.

Which came first, the dumbing down of America or Reality TV?

but still, what the hell are they teaching in US history?

I suspect they are teaching the same things they have always taught - the names of events and the date they happened, with very little information about how those events impacted real people. I never enjoyed history when I was in high school or college. It just bored me to tears. But more years later than I care to admit, I'm fascinated with history. The reason I love it now and didn't like it in school is the teachers didn't make it interesting. History is best taught by people who love it and can turn it into a great story, weaving in the important facts and dates. But far too many teachers at all levels don't do that. Perhaps its an impossible task. When I was at OU, there were two standard American History classes freshmen had to choose from: pre-Civil war and Civil War and after. How do you cover all the fascinating things that have gone on since the Civil War in one semester? And how do you make it interesting and relevant?

Which came first, the dumbing down of America or Reality TV?

Well, according to someone, just about every fad, advancement, and achievement in history has caused a decay in society. As for reality tv, it really depends what we consider it, as some of them are just glorified game shows (Survivor, Top Chef, Amazing Race, and so forth), and those have been around for as long as TV. But if we consider it to be just the "Camera follows X around" variety, probably back to Cops, then definitely the so-called dumbing down.

Of course, I'd say the dumbing down is massively over-exaggerated, and teenagers have always been idiots in general. They're just idiots with an opportunity to gain an audience now.

You know what freaks me out? And I mean FREAKS ME OUT. It is the way we are turning our little girls into pink princesses, divas, etc. What in the world are we thinking? A sassy little girl with her hand on her hip, displaying no empathy or consideration for the wants or needs of others, demanding that she be given attention and that others fetch and carry is met with delight.

OMG! Can you imagine being married to that child once she gets to be about thirty five? I'm not saying that these little darlings can't grow up to be productive citizens with loving hearts but encouraging being high maintenance and praising her for being self centered and "pretty" is liable to lead to one of those large young women at Wal Mart dressed in pink leopard tights who honestly believes she really is a diva - the proof being the four children she has had with four different guys who told her so...

Maybe this is why I encouraged my daughters to play sports instead of be cheerleaders.

Also, let's face it: the Americans that have jobs usually work a lot of hours, often at emotionally draining, stressful jobs. If you want to have kids and also pay a mortgage, car payments, etc. without going on assistance, you pretty much have to have both spouses working. I think a lot of parents are either too overwhelmed with work, too lazy, or too dumb to parent effectively, so they try to make up for it by buying crap for their kids. And there was a lot of backlash against overly harsh "discipline", so a lot of people take it too far in the other direction and try to be their kids' friend instead of an authority figure.

I think that part of that stems from people mistaking "wants" with "needs". When we had our 2nd child, we decided my wife would become a stay-at-home mom. At the time she was bringing in more income than I was so we took over a 50% hit to cash flow. It was very difficult at first, and we had to make a lot of adjustments (no more new car every 3-4 years, spending money like there was no tomorrow, etc), but we became really good at prioritizing wants and needs. You'd be surprised of how little you really need to get by. Now that our kids are older, she has re-entered the workplace and things are much easier now. However, we still operate on a good wants/needs balance (though admittedly, relaxed somewhat).

Don't even get me started on the spanking thing.


Maybe this is why I encouraged my daughters to play sports instead of be cheerleaders.
I know what you are trying to say, but my daughter is into competitive cheer, and let me tell you, their workouts are brutal. She works harder than I ever had to playing baseball and football and is in better shape because of it. Maybe it's because it is a competition, not just standing on the sidelines looking pretty, but my daughter is no diva; she's more of a warrior. :)

History??? Who cares about "history"? (fer cryin' out loud?) . . .
"History is written by The Winner!"

The History/Discovery/Learning Channels of the Future (on Cable/Dish/Etc) will be doing a faux Ken Burnsian documentary on "The Rise of Honey Boo Boo: From Toddler With Tiara to The Queen of NAFTAria" . . .

Just kidding.
(although some may disagree =)

(ps to ms proud sooner: "the 'dumbing down of america' vs 'reality tv' are two sides of the same coin and it is a coin not accidentally minted. all the "politcal" whining about the decline in "education" is simply a smokescreen buffering the real agenda =)

You know what freaks me out? And I mean FREAKS ME OUT. It is the way we are turning our little girls into pink princesses, divas, etc. What in the world are we thinking? A sassy little girl with her hand on her hip, displaying no empathy or consideration for the wants or needs of others, demanding that she be given attention and that others fetch and carry is met with delight.

OMG! Can you imagine being married to that child once she gets to be about thirty five? I'm not saying that these little darlings can't grow up to be productive citizens with loving hearts but encouraging being high maintenance and praising her for being self centered and "pretty" is liable to lead to one of those large young women at Wal Mart dressed in pink leopard tights who honestly believes she really is a diva - the proof being the four children she has had with four different guys who told her so...

Is this really a new thing? Cinderella was first written in the late 1600's, and Disney has been pumping out family-friendly princess-fantasies since the late '30's. The sassiness may be a relatively new part (although I'd argue that it's not really any different from previous trends), but overall, girls wanting to be princesses doesn't strike me as something we're just now turning little girls in to.

Is this really a new thing? Cinderella was first written in the late 1600's, and Disney has been pumping out family-friendly princess-fantasies since the late '30's. The sassiness may be a relatively new part (although I'd argue that it's not really any different from previous trends), but overall, girls wanting to be princesses doesn't strike me as something we're just now turning little girls in to.
Yes, it is a new thing to the extent its been taken. I think you put your finger on it - the sassiness, i.e., the high maintenance Diva attitude. But more than that - and this may be because of the era I was raised - there is just so much emphasis on looks and popularity and being loved because you are oh so special. I was raised in the midst of the women's movement and there was so much emphasis on developing our mind, getting an education, not being like our fifties' mom and relying on our looks, the June Cleaver pearls, etc.

Recently, my best friend and I were having a devil of a time finding some movies for her young granddaughter. One after the other had a female lead who became a rock star or something like that as if it was the best thing you could do - just trivial crap. I would never have chosen that sort of nonsense for one of my girls when they were growing up. In "our" day, we were being told we could do and be anything. I became a lawyer. She is a successful rancher - an unlikely role for a woman! Her daughters are a medical doctor and a psychologist. Mine are both lawyers. This whole pink princess, diva thing is just weird, to me.

I suspect they are teaching the same things they have always taught - the names of events and the date they happened, with very little information about how those events impacted real people. I never enjoyed history when I was in high school or college. It just bored me to tears. But more years later than I care to admit, I'm fascinated with history. The reason I love it now and didn't like it in school is the teachers didn't make it interesting. History is best taught by people who love it and can turn it into a great story, weaving in the important facts and dates. But far too many teachers at all levels don't do that. Perhaps its an impossible task. When I was at OU, there were two standard American History classes freshmen had to choose from: pre-Civil war and Civil War and after. How do you cover all the fascinating things that have gone on since the Civil War in one semester? And how do you make it interesting and relevant?

When I taught American History back in the late 80's (8th grade), we could barely get up to WWII without making the whole thing a foot race. With so much history that has taken place since then, I can't imagine how in the world they could actually teach much in a year.

Well, according to someone, just about every fad, advancement, and achievement in history has caused a decay in society. As for reality tv, it really depends what we consider it, as some of them are just glorified game shows (Survivor, Top Chef, Amazing Race, and so forth), and those have been around for as long as TV. But if we consider it to be just the "Camera follows X around" variety, probably back to Cops, then definitely the so-called dumbing down.

Of course, I'd say the dumbing down is massively over-exaggerated, and teenagers have always been idiots in general. They're just idiots with an opportunity to gain an audience now.

I disagree. Yes, they have a bigger audience, now, but when I was coming up, there is no way I would have been allowed to behave the way these kids do, say the things these kids say. Period. And that was just the way it was for everyone. Not that long ago, kids were taught to be modest, not to brag on themselves, to wait for other people to say nice things about them, not point out their successes, etc. Bragging was taboo. It was just not done. These days, kids don't seem to have any qualms about bragging on themselves, showing off, etc. They seem like they are full of braggarts with little to base it on. When you have to wait for other people to pat you on the back, the way it used to be, I think there is a much better likelihood that you'd bust your but to earn those atta girls. These days, so many of the kids are self centered, narcissistic and seem to think they are a lot more accomplished than their behavior warrants.

Yes, it is a new thing to the extent its been taken. I think you put your finger on it - the sassiness, i.e., the high maintenance Diva attitude. But more than that - and this may be because of the era I was raised - there is just so much emphasis on looks and popularity and being loved because you are oh so special. I was raised in the midst of the women's movement and there was so much emphasis on developing our mind, getting an education, not being like our fifties' mom and relying on our looks, the June Cleaver pearls, etc.

Recently, my best friend and I were having a devil of a time finding some movies for her young granddaughter. One after the other had a female lead who became a rock star or something like that as if it was the best thing you could do - just trivial crap. I would never have chosen that sort of nonsense for one of my girls when they were growing up. In "our" day, we were being told we could do and be anything. I became a lawyer. She is a successful rancher - an unlikely role for a woman! Her daughters are a medical doctor and a psychologist. Mine are both lawyers. This whole pink princess, diva thing is just weird, to me.

I'd say you just grew up in a unique time. Before it, the most girls had to look forward to in general was marrying well and being a good homemaker (heck, one of my favorite American books was basically a how-to guide for girls on doing just that) and kids today aren't as enamored with the prospect of being a CEO or lawyer or politician because it's not a particularly new thing. They didn't see the barriers broken, and they didn't live in a time near when they were up, so they don't appreciate how different it used to be like your parents and you may have. The fantasies of being whisked away by rich men and the fantasies of nobility were there, they just weren't as vapid as the fantasies tend to be now.

That said, I do agree that the sassiness has amped up, and I think a lot of it was hinted at what you said. I think a lot of the tv shows targeted to that audience basically are about girls becoming famous and popular without actually having to work at it. I'd blame Disney, as they're the worst at it with their live-action shows. Their movie heroines don't tend to be that way anymore, but they're not nearly as popular as, say, Hannah Montana was. Add the technology of the time to it and now girls don't even have to move to Los Angeles to try to be discovered, they can just upload videos to youtube, sit on their butts and text while waiting to be discovered and become the next Justin Bieber.


I disagree. Yes, they have a bigger audience, now, but when I was coming up, there is no way I would have been allowed to behave the way these kids do, say the things these kids say. Period. And that was just the way it was for everyone. Not that long ago, kids were taught to be modest, not to brag on themselves, to wait for other people to say nice things about them, not point out their successes, etc. Bragging was taboo. It was just not done. These days, kids don't seem to have any qualms about bragging on themselves, showing off, etc. They seem like they are full of braggarts with little to base it on. When you have to wait for other people to pat you on the back, the way it used to be, I think there is a much better likelihood that you'd bust your but to earn those atta girls. These days, so many of the kids are self centered, narcissistic and seem to think they are a lot more accomplished than their behavior warrants.

I think you were just raised differently, honestly. The tendency for teenagers to be egocentric was considered a pretty well document part of development when I was taking psychology classes in high school, and that's not in the current generation of teenagers. Of course it'll be different depending on how you were raised (I have a teenage nephew, and aside from his choice in music, he's extremely respectful and well-behaved), but I don't think it's new. My parents went to school with kids like that, I went to school with kids like that, and while I don't know the specifics of where you went to school, I'd be surprised if you didn't go to school with kids like that. The only thing that's new is the fact that kids can display their bad attitudes for all the world to see now. We didn't have facebook, twitter and youtube when I was a teenager, the internet was still bought in minutes then, so fortunately most of our stupidity was confined to our social circles and most of us grew out of it. Now we can see their stupidity first hand.

No question I was raised "old school." My grandparents raised me and my great grand mother lived in the home. So I grew up hearing stories of the horse and buggy days and was raised pretty much the same way they were. I have the pleasure of an 87 year old father-in-law still living and he was pretty much raised the same way - lots of freedom and lots of responsibility with little tolerance for showboating and an expectation that if you got a pat on the back, it was because you did something to earn it. Oh, we got plenty of hugs but praise was given for something we did exceptionally well - it had nothing to do with building our self esteem. That wasn't even on the radar. Still, it meant something more than we were just swell people. It meant we'd done a good job. And if it was something we should have been doing, anyway? Not much praise offered - the bar was higher than that. As a result, I'm not particularly angst ridden and most of my peers aren't either. That seems to come with people who think there is something wrong if they aren't constantly being reassured. "Good job" was a description and you felt happy to have done a good job. It didn't have much to do with our character or personality or emotional well-being.

As far as looking for a man to marry up with, I think that has gone in and out of style but was actually a fairly late developing thing for most women in the past century. The fifties little girl women post WWII weren't the same persona as the hard working women of the thirties and forties - many of whom worked during the war and before. Even in the twenties and the teens, upper middle class families educated their daughters. Acting like fluffy bunny rabbits who needs a man to take care of them and give them the finer things in life just looks stupid when you and your peers are still using an outhouse/chamber pot and killing and cooking your own chickens - don't forget, that is the kind of life even the middle class tended to live back in those days. Even if you were casting your net, so to speak, you generally didn't do it by acting like a vapid airhead. Men looked for women who would be good looking, sure, but they also expected them to be raising their kids.

My great grandmother was a maid and a seamstress (common occupations for the times but definitely full time jobs). My grandmother always worked until she retired - she had menial jobs, worked as an editor during the war, had her own business (a bar), etc. My mother always worked, too - she was a timekeeper most of the time I was growing up although she was a stewardess in the early days of aviation. Both my mothers-in-law (born in the 20's) always worked full time out of the home. The difference was that instead of dropping off the kids at daycare or school for extended day, most of the kids ran wild at a certain age and stayed with grandma when they were younger. Just the way it was done.

I'm probably in the minority but I think the kids today are pretty awesome and I truly feel for the bad circumstances they were born into. They certainly aren't going to grow up with the ease and oportuntities the baby boomers enjoyed. Instead of derision today's youth deserves an apology.

I'm probably in the minority but I think the kids today are pretty awesome and I truly feel for the bad circumstances they were born into. They certainly aren't going to grow up with the ease and oportuntities the baby boomers enjoyed. Instead of derision today's youth deserves an apology.

An apology? You're kidding. I feel bad for the ones born into poor homes - that is never a good thing but it isn't new. As far as an apology, they still have it better, as a group being raised, than any generation, to date. All the materialism of their parents/grandparents have gone straight to them and if they were rejecting that value, they wouldn't be begging for entitlements and government solutions to their problems. They are at least as bad as the generations that you claim owe them an apology. Jeeze, it isn't like they've lived through the Great Depression, WWII or been drafted to fight in Vietnam. What an entitlement mentality. This generation didn't head off to war whether they wanted to, or not. After seeing the sacrifices of our Vietnam era vets, I am just amazed that a generation that has never been forced to do one.darn.thing. for their country thinks it owes THEM just for breathing.

I always laugh at old people complaining about younger generations. I work with youth and they're fine. Probably better than my generation. They definitely don't think everyone owes them something. That's just something grumpy people complain about.

While I mostly agree with your original statements on this topic PQ, I think you are overgeneralizing about today's younger people. I understand my perspective will differ from society due to my job, but I have seen countless selfless acts by young kids in extraordinary situations. The average age of those serving in Afghanistan is somewhere around 20. I have also met numerous younger people in OKC who have stepped up and become involved in civic matters. Of course there are always some who exhibit poor attitudes, but I don't think it is fair to assign all of what is wrong with America to young people. Those that feel entitled to anything they want most likely learned those behaviors from their parents....and other older people.

But if we consider it to be just the "Camera follows X around" variety, probably back to Cops, then definitely the so-called dumbing down.

Really the first show of that kind was "American Family" on PBS back in the early 70's. It documented the decay and destruction of the Loud family in California. Much of it was very riveting viewing at the time. We had never seen anything like it.

I always laugh at old people complaining about younger generations. I work with youth and they're fine. Probably better than my generation. They definitely don't think everyone owes them something. That's just something grumpy people complain about.

Exactly...The old "back in my day" nonsense is annoying...Kinda like the best neighborhood debates that go nowhere where you get all of the "mine is best" posts

How many of the topics here go into impotent rage old people mode of argument? "Back in my day, we didn't expect anything. I was raised by good people...not the entitlement mentality iphone wanting credit card abusing liberals...

Isn't it interesting how much folks can project on "others" they really don't know anything about with the possible exception of a few bad actors?

Let's judge the entire world by the examples of the few of humanities worst so we can frame ourselves as superior in everyway all the while doing most of the things we deplore in others.

Reality TV shows aren't new. The current form has been around since the early 90's but even that had precursors.

And, the past wasn't so great even if you were raised "old school" or whatever mythical ideal one holds out as the arbiter of all good.

In my day, old school meant you could beat your wife and kids with extreme force and not really be held accountable. Man, those were the days.

To think about it for a minute, reality shows are full of american values. A producer takes nothing and creates a multimillion dollar mouse trap the world beats a pathway to his door to buy.

It's really pure america like Rockafeller, Edison, P.T. Barnum, Ben Franklin, Mark Twain....etc.

Except, they were good americans, not like today's bad hollywood liberals teach everybody to be entitlement mentality self-esteem addicts who don't know american history like everybody knew back in my day.

Reminds me of being in a bookstore recently and telling the clerk about Karen Silkwood. That was a pretty big deal 30 years ago. A third party, female about 50, joined in the conversation and said, "What books did Silkwood write, murder mysteries?"

Then, they didn't teach real history 35 years ago either.