View Full Version : Oklahoma Indians Baseball ?????



Lurker34
12-17-2012, 08:41 AM
Heard a rumor that the Cleveland Indians are it talks with Oklahoma City about relocation. Like I said, it's a rumor. Anyone hear anything concrete about it?

thundersooner
12-17-2012, 09:17 AM
Where did you hear this? I can't find any info on this anywhere.

venture
12-17-2012, 10:15 AM
Sounds like a bunch of bull, IMO. I can't see the Indians leaving Cleveland.

onthestrip
12-17-2012, 10:44 AM
And where exactly do you think they would play games?

Pro sports teams dont move to cities that dont have proper stadiums/arenas. There is no way this is happening.

jedicurt
12-17-2012, 10:48 AM
i seem to recall a story on the bleacher report a few months ago that showed the top X# of places that the Cleveland Indians should move to if they were to relocate (cause they have been at the bottom of attendance numbers for a few years... and i remember OKC being on that list (and very low on that list) so i think someone probably just saw that and thought it was something that people were actually thinking about doing

dankrutka
12-17-2012, 11:10 AM
Zero chance of this happening. First, OKC would be a bad relocation destination. OKC could not support 30-40,000 fans for 81 games a year AND the Thunder. OKC is a perfect market for one major sports team and it would be a mistake to dilute the Thunder support now, which is already bolstered by their tremendous success. The real test for OKC is how well fans support the team once they're not new anymore or successful. It's not easy to get up for Milwaukee Bucks games 81 times a year. Second, the Indians are not leaving Cleveland.

Bellaboo
12-17-2012, 01:04 PM
Heard a rumor that the Cleveland Indians are it talks with Oklahoma City about relocation. Like I said, it's a rumor. Anyone hear anything concrete about it?

Seriously doubt it, on the other hand, it could be for their AAA affiliation after the Houston contract is up.

milkmandude
12-17-2012, 01:10 PM
What about Tulsa? Driller games are always way more packed than Redhawk's games from my perspective. The ONEOK Field is new, but was a fight between Jenks to do so. If they did something similiar to OKC with MAPS to get the Thunder, would they pull it off? There is no other MLB in range from KC to Dallas.

dankrutka
12-17-2012, 01:55 PM
I don't think Tulsa could support a MLB team, but maybe... One sports towns have to be passionate and I'm sure Tulsans would be. Having said that, they probably don't have the corporate support necessary. There are too many better city options. I see MLS or NHL as the best fits if Tulsa could ever get a big league team.

OKCisOK4me
12-17-2012, 03:30 PM
Zero chance of this happening. First, OKC would be a bad relocation destination. OKC could not support 30-40,000 fans for 81 games a year AND the Thunder. OKC is a perfect market for one major sports team and it would be a mistake to dilute the Thunder support now, which is already bolstered by their tremendous success. The real test for OKC is how well fans support the team once they're not new anymore or successful. It's not easy to get up for Milwaukee Bucks games 81 times a year. Second, the Indians are not leaving Cleveland.

And thirdly, there is no support for the Redhawks or whatever they're called now in their whatever it's called park. That stadium has never been filled to capacity. The owners of the Indians aren't going to build a new stadium here and OKC isn't going to have an impromptu vote on a MAPS 3 1/2 tax to build a stadium. If they were looking to relocate, they'd pick somewhere that already has the facilities in place.

Hawk405359
12-17-2012, 08:21 PM
There's probably a better chance of them relocating to my backyard than to OKC, honestly. We really can't be that high on the list as potential MLB destinations.

Snowman
12-17-2012, 09:07 PM
What about Tulsa? Driller games are always way more packed than Redhawk's games from my perspective. The ONEOK Field is new, but was a fight between Jenks to do so. If they did something similiar to OKC with MAPS to get the Thunder, would they pull it off? There is no other MLB in range from KC to Dallas.

Like our stadium, their's is well below capacity for a MLB team but it would not have to have as many comprises as ours to add upper decks and outfield seats.

Since there is a school of thought that a city should have a million people per pro team it would be right on the edge of supporting a team. Though due to the respective CBA's it is much harder for Tulsa (who would be the smallest market in the league) to build a competitive MLB team compared to the NFL or NBA and practically impossible to build a dominate team.

Tulsa already has a thing similar to MAPS which runs through 2017, getting more tax given the current economic climate and and risk of loosing current jobs from American Airlines would make raising that higher difficult now, granted the mix of projects was a bit iffy but they just turned down an extension on it this year. If there is a window to get the team it probably will not last, in any case the first thing you need to look at with relocation talks is if the team is just using other cities to get better teams on leases, tax breaks or a new stadium in the city they are in.

ljbab728
12-17-2012, 09:16 PM
Tulsa already has a thing similar to MAPS, so could be an option.

Probably not. Tulsa's Vision 2 vote recently failed.

dankrutka
12-17-2012, 09:24 PM
Obviously Tulsa would have to build a new stadium. People might change their tune if a MLB team was a realistic option. Just sayin'. It's obviously not happening.

bluedogok
12-17-2012, 09:42 PM
There was an Oklahoma City Indians minor league team over the years before the 89'ers. They were a farm club for many teams including the Cleveland Indians during the 40-50's.

Baseball is a sport that has no salary cap and your local television contract is key to financial success. The Red Sox and Yankees own their own networks (NESN and YES), the Cubs may still own theirs. Fox has paid big money for the Rangers and Dodger broadcasts, the smaller market teams are at a severe disadvantage even with the luxury tax. Basketball at least has some revenue sharing and a salary cap in place to equalize the revenues to some extent. I would think San Antonio would have a better chance, they have actively pursued some teams in the past, notably Miami before the new stadium initiative was passed. The populations numbers in Central Texas are much more favorable.

Spartan
12-17-2012, 09:45 PM
This thread makes me laugh.

ljbab728
12-17-2012, 09:46 PM
Everyone is always pleased to put you in a jolly mood, Spartan.

Spartan
12-17-2012, 09:49 PM
I wonder if anyone knows what my avatar for most of this year is

ljbab728
12-17-2012, 09:55 PM
I wonder if anyone knows what my avatar for most of this year is

Looks like Slider to me.

Spartan
12-17-2012, 10:14 PM
Looks like Slider to me.

Good job Lj! Or as I like to call him, PURPLE THING!! Such a lovable mascot

skanaly
12-18-2012, 09:54 AM
I go to three or four Redhawks games a year, and the stadium is never pact. I don't think we're a baseball city. I mean if we got a proffesional team, I think things would change a bit, but from my opinion they're better off staying in Cleveland.

SoonerDave
12-18-2012, 10:06 AM
The Redhawks nee 89ers were a great draw when there was little else compelling to visit during the summer, but that's changed these days. Besides that, in terms of notoriety, I don't think the current owners do much beyond squat to promote the Redhawks. That's where I fondly recall the days of Patty Cox Hampton, widow of the venerable old Bing Hampton, who knew how to market minor league baseball in OKC.

Decades ago, they did a fabulous job of marketing affordable, family-friendly entertainment, not just baseball. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, many of their marketing methods became all-but textbook models for how other cities marketed their similar teams. What they realized quickly: You can't just sell baseball, particularly minor league baseball, as a product by itself because the team won't stay together. That's the basic, inviolate nature of farm-team ball. So you market a broader product - family entertainment. And that's what made the 89ers marketable and successful downstream, and now as the Redhawks, but less so after a move - guess what - to devoting what little advertising I do see back to selling baseball rather than entertainment.

Now, don't get me wrong, to say that's the sole reason interest in the Redhawks has possibly ebbed would be a ridiculous oversimplification. But I do believe its an important element. Baseball in Oklahoma has been on the slide IMHO because neither of the state school teams have been anywhere near what they were in their heyday...OSU's past successes and contemporary troubles are well documented, and OU is obviously a long way from its great days under Enos Semore. OU-OSU baseball used to pack 15K+ SRO into old One Sport Stadium, and 13K in the early days of The Brick, but not anymore. Pro sports in OKC right now is obviously Thunder-centric, making a Redhawks sell just that much harder. And that we lost the affiliation with the Rangers in favor of one with one of the worst organizations in pro ball - the Astros - doesn't help perceptions.

Don't know if or how you can rebuild that interest. And I don't think there's two chances in heck you'd ever spin up enough interest around here to sustain a full MLB franchise for 81+ games per year....eventually, you just run out of discretionary sports dollars.

Spartan
12-18-2012, 10:39 AM
I go to three or four Redhawks games a year, and the stadium is never pact. I don't think we're a baseball city. I mean if we got a proffesional team, I think things would change a bit, but from my opinion they're better off staying in Cleveland.

I would say so, with 3 million in the Cleveland-Akron metro and 6 million in NE Ohio, and a populace with an insatiable appetite for losing franchises

venture
12-18-2012, 02:17 PM
I go to three or four Redhawks games a year, and the stadium is never pact. I don't think we're a baseball city. I mean if we got a proffesional team, I think things would change a bit, but from my opinion they're better off staying in Cleveland.

I thought the Redhawks were professionals? :)

skanaly
12-19-2012, 02:24 PM
I thought the Redhawks were professionals? :)
You know what I mean haha. An MLB team. I think we have a better chance of getting a hockey team because we already have two arenas to choose from, with a baseball team, we would have to build a new arena or add on to the one we already have.

GaryOKC6
12-19-2012, 03:11 PM
I go to a lot of thunder games and only maybe two redhawks games every year. If we "did" have a MLB team I would go very often.

MonkeesFan
12-19-2012, 05:24 PM
Not going to happen

MDot
12-19-2012, 05:30 PM
If we ever got an MLB team I would go to the games most of the season, but right now I'm not that interested in going to baseball games mainly because of the Thunder.

dankrutka
12-20-2012, 11:08 AM
You know what I mean haha. An MLB team. I think we have a better chance of getting a hockey team because we already have two arenas to choose from, with a baseball team, we would have to build a new arena or add on to the one we already have.

Uh, we don't have 2 arenas to choose from. No NHL team would ever play in Cox. Ever. Furthermore, OKC is not getting a 2nd professional team in any sport for a while. The population and money is not there for this to be feasible. One major league pro team is perfect for OKC.

Bellaboo
12-20-2012, 12:49 PM
Uh, we don't have 2 arenas to choose from. No NHL team would ever play in Cox. Ever. Furthermore, OKC is not getting a 2nd professional team in any sport for a while. The population and money is not there for this to be feasible. One major league pro team is perfect for OKC.

This ^^, there are only so many sports dollars to go around, and currently the Thunder have decimated both OU and OSU's basketball programs to the point that both schools have drastically cut some prices just to get butts in the seats. OKC can not come close to supporting another professional franchise, other than a possible MLS team at best......but MLB, NHL or NFL will be a no show for years to come.

Snowman
12-20-2012, 01:00 PM
This ^^, there are only so many sports dollars to go around, and currently the Thunder have decimated both OU and OSU's basketball programs to the point that both schools have drastically cut some prices just to get butts in the seats. OKC can not come close to supporting another professional franchise, other than a possible MLS team at best......but MLB, NHL or NFL will be a no show for years to come.

If they were playing great in the regular season and going deep in the NCAA tournament you can absolutely state that is the Thunder is directly responsible. However OU's basketball team on court quality absolutely fell apart after 2008-2009 season, I do not follow OSU as close but their record indicated they have hit and missed some years. The OU women's team which did not have major drops in performance and did not have a dramatic in attendance.

Bellaboo
12-20-2012, 01:43 PM
If they were playing great in the regular season and going deep in the NCAA tournament you can absolutely state that is the Thunder is directly responsible. However OU's basketball team on court quality absolutely fell apart after 2008-2009 season, I do not follow OSU as close but their record indicated they have hit and missed some years. The OU women's team which did not have major drops in performance and did not have a dramatic in attendance.

I saw that clip on the news the other night when Whitney Hand got hurt and there was hardly a soul in the stands.....OSU had Boone by tickets to just give away for the mens games for the time period where the students are gone because they have no one in their stands either, and they are ranked 24th....it's killing both schools. Personally, after watching the NBA for several years now, I have a hard time watching the college game, looks like a bunch of high schoolers running around...

dankrutka
12-21-2012, 11:14 AM
The Thunder's arrival coincided with OU and OSU hitting their cumulative worst state in at least 30 years. It 's insane how few OU students go to games. It will be interesting to see what happens to attendance if one of them has an elite - top 5 - team again... I'm still skeptical that the support will be there. Very depressing.

Snowman
12-21-2012, 11:45 AM
I saw that clip on the news the other night when Whitney Hand got hurt and there was hardly a soul in the stands.....OSU had Boone by tickets to just give away for the mens games for the time period where the students are gone because they have no one in their stands either, and they are ranked 24th....it's killing both schools. Personally, after watching the NBA for several years now, I have a hard time watching the college game, looks like a bunch of high schoolers running around...

The women's team slipping in the national rankings is one thing, the men's side was completely different, they went from doing well in the regular season with runs in the NCAA tournament to barely beating any conference opponent in the entire year with many blowout losses.

SoonerDave
12-21-2012, 12:09 PM
Regardless of the Thunder's success, we have to keep in mind that the sport of college basketball is suffering from a gut-punch all on its own due to the rapid departure of talent to the NBA (one and done), and the NBA seems not the least predisposed to do anything about it (not that they should, but if anyone were going to change, it would have to be them).

IMHO, it will be next to impossible for OU or OSU to recapture the kinds of success they were enjoying just a few years ago. Either or both may have a year or two with some success, but not with the kind of regularity to which we had more or less become accustomed.

bluedogok
12-22-2012, 11:31 AM
The women's team slipping in the national rankings is one thing, the men's side was completely different, they went from doing well in the regular season with runs in the NCAA tournament to barely beating any conference opponent in the entire year with many blowout losses.
The OU women's team seems to have had quite a few years with season ending injuries which has decimated the the competitiveness. The men's team shows the effect of what bad hires can do to the program.


Regardless of the Thunder's success, we have to keep in mind that the sport of college basketball is suffering from a gut-punch all on its own due to the rapid departure of talent to the NBA (one and done), and the NBA seems not the least predisposed to do anything about it (not that they should, but if anyone were going to change, it would have to be them).

IMHO, it will be next to impossible for OU or OSU to recapture the kinds of success they were enjoying just a few years ago. Either or both may have a year or two with some success, but not with the kind of regularity to which we had more or less become accustomed.
The "one and done" rule has been a colossal failure in my opinion, it has decimated college basketball. They need to go to something like the college baseball rule, allow drafting out of high school and if you go to college you can't be drafted until your third year out of high school, junior or redshirt sophomore year like football. For the most part college basketball isn't missing out by having a player for only one season and then moving on. A Kevin Durant at UT for one year doesn't really help the college game. If a Kobe or Lebron is good enough out of high school they will make it, if high school players become too big of a risk, then the teams won't take them and they will be forced to go to college for three years or go overseas to play. One-and-done hurts the game at the college or pro level.

dankrutka
12-22-2012, 02:22 PM
Regardless of the Thunder's success, we have to keep in mind that the sport of college basketball is suffering from a gut-punch all on its own due to the rapid departure of talent to the NBA (one and done), and the NBA seems not the least predisposed to do anything about it (not that they should, but if anyone were going to change, it would have to be them).

IMHO, it will be next to impossible for OU or OSU to recapture the kinds of success they were enjoying just a few years ago. Either or both may have a year or two with some success, but not with the kind of regularity to which we had more or less become accustomed.

Your explanation doesn't make any sense. The NBA started seeing NBA early entries in the mi-90s. The NBA required players to go to college for at least one year starting around 2004. OU and OSU both had success during those time periods. I don't think that's the reason...

zookeeper
12-22-2012, 05:36 PM
IMHO, it will be next to impossible for OU or OSU to recapture the kinds of success they were enjoying just a few years ago. Either or both may have a year or two with some success, but not with the kind of regularity to which we had more or less become accustomed.
I agree with you that the NBA has nearly ruined college basketball, but since the rules regarding NBA eligibility applies to all, wouldn't all NCAA schools have the same problem? That levels out the playing field, so to speak.

Spartan
12-22-2012, 08:20 PM
Regardless of the Thunder's success, we have to keep in mind that the sport of college basketball is suffering from a gut-punch all on its own due to the rapid departure of talent to the NBA (one and done), and the NBA seems not the least predisposed to do anything about it (not that they should, but if anyone were going to change, it would have to be them).

IMHO, it will be next to impossible for OU or OSU to recapture the kinds of success they were enjoying just a few years ago. Either or both may have a year or two with some success, but not with the kind of regularity to which we had more or less become accustomed.

Perhaps OSU's distance and proximity instead to Tulsa could finally be a good thing

Hawk405359
12-22-2012, 09:28 PM
Your explanation doesn't make any sense. The NBA started seeing NBA early entries in the mi-90s. The NBA required players to go to college for at least one year starting around 2004. OU and OSU both had success during those time periods. I don't think that's the reason...

They had early entries earlier than that. The first player to go straight from high school to the NBA was in the 60's. Although it wasn't until Kobe and Garnett in the 90's that more players began looking at it seriously. But it didn't blow up until the 2000's (between 95 and 2000, there were 11 high schoolers drafted. Between 2001 and 2005, there were 28), and the success rate of players jumping subsequently plummeted since everyone who thought they had a shot jumped rather than just the best.

I think that's had at least some effect on both OU and OSU, although maybe not a huge one. Certainly I don't think it affects who wins the title that much, but in terms over overall competitiveness, I think there's some impact. When the number of top talent jumping to the NBA from high school went up, the Dukes and North Carolinas and Kentuckys weren't getting them either, so fielding a strong team against a traditional power became more about finding players in the rough, because they were likely to stick with you since they weren't already NBA caliber. Schools that were more used to it could do that, so it didn't affect them as much as it would for a team that's used to going after the best and winning them over with prestige and tradition. Now that they can't, the one and done players want the most exposure, so the top schools again have the inside track to the top recruits, so it makes it harder. Of course, you can still field great teams if you aren't on the level of Kansas or Kentucky, but I think reintroducing the one and dones back to the system gave a boost back to the powerhouses.

zookeeper
12-22-2012, 10:01 PM
Bringing things back on topic, the Cleveland Indians have had their attendance problems, but Cleveland is a great city and will keep MLB. Remember, it's a 3 horse town with the Indians, Browns and Cavs and the Cleveland area was hit harder than most during recent recessions due to the flight of manufacturing jobs. Supporting 3 professional franchises is not easy for a lot of cities the size of Cleveland, their economic problems only make it tougher.

RadicalModerate
12-22-2012, 11:31 PM
Obviously, the first order of business, should be to change the name of the team to The OKC Casinos.
No?
Sounded fairly politically correct to me . . . while maintaining the "cultural connection" . . . even within the "sportstalk" format . . .
(i used to love The 89ers . . . regular fan . . . even out at that ballpark by the freeway . . . adjacent to the fairgrounds . . . =)

Sorry to interrupt . . . please excuse my rudeness . . . carry on . . . ?????

Hawk405359
12-22-2012, 11:36 PM
The recession certainly plays a factor, I also think that the fact that Cleveland sports aren't traditionally the highest quality plays a role The one bright spot they had was Lebron, and he bolted to win a title elsewhere. Other than that, they don't just have 3 sports team in a recession, they have 3 bad sports teams in a recession, and that's a hard sell considering how many tickets for all Cleveland sports that are out there.

Here, we've not had to deal with that before. The Thunder were bad at first, but they were still new and unique so we went to the games, and now they're contenders. OKC's stature as a pro sports town will really be tested when the Thunder aren't good and the novelty has worn off, because how you support a bad team is a big element in how good a pro sports town it really is.


Obviously, the first order of business, should be to change the name of the team to The OKC Casinos.
No?
Sounded fairly politically correct to me . . . even within the "sportstalk" format . . .
(i used to love The 89ers . . . regular fan =)

Well, since we're bringing WWLS into it, wouldn't OKC Handicappers be a more fitting name? Maybe OKC Sports Bookies? OKC Fat Jacks?

RadicalModerate
12-23-2012, 12:35 AM
It would be foolish of me to disagree with the assessment of the situation you outlined, above.
(yet . . . somehow . . . i don't think that "The Oklahoma Indians" are going to fly . . . from Cleveland or wherever)

[What is WWLS?]

Just for the fun of it . . .
Here is a cool, entertaining, and educational link . . .
http://www.toonist.com/flash/ravine.html

at least i found it interesting and informative . . .

dcsooner
12-23-2012, 10:14 AM
fully agree with this assessment posted by Hawk. OKC will demonstrate its true allegiance to supporting professional sports when the team is bad which in time will be the case for at least some period of time. I hope the city/state will continue to attend and buy gear because it is Oklahoma's team. We will see at some point if Oklahomans are true fans of the NBA and professional basketball even if the local team is average or worse.