View Full Version : If the liquor laws in OK were modernized...



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bchris02
12-07-2012, 10:04 PM
If grocery stores could sell wine and high-point beer in Oklahoma, do you think it would really attract stores like Costco and a much needed mid-high end grocery chain like Publix? Or would it simply hurt the local liquor stores because Wal-Mart can now sell wine and strong beer. Stores like Costco, Trader Joe's, etc exist in other 3.2 or package-store only wine states so I don't 100% buy that excuse. Thoughts?

Plutonic Panda
12-07-2012, 10:57 PM
It is time for Oklahoma to get with the friggin program!!!!!

Prunepicker
12-08-2012, 12:50 AM
If the liquor laws of Oklahoma were modernized then Oklahoma would
have more alcoholics. Ya gotta love it!

There's nothing quite as nice as so-called progress. As we always say,
"to hell with family and neighbors, let's get drunk!"

It's a wonderful world.

Dustin
12-08-2012, 01:26 AM
If the liquor laws of Oklahoma were modernized then Oklahoma would
have more alcoholics. Ya gotta love it!


Where are the studies from other states with modern liquor laws that would support this? Your logic is flawed.

Edmond_Outsider
12-08-2012, 07:02 AM
That is an unreasonable request. "Studies" and "facts" are what the resident expert on all things define them as. I believe there is a wiki which explains some of these customized and alternative definitions of various concepts.

stick47
12-08-2012, 07:46 AM
I think Oklahoma needs to be rid of all the special interest regulations that protect certain businesses at the expense of the public's right to free choice. Liquor laws, whether they bring about an elevated risk of associated drunk driving, etc need to be brought into at minimum, the 20th century. And that's just one of the special interests that make our great state look so backwards.

RadicalModerate
12-08-2012, 08:16 AM
I think Oklahoma needs to be rid of all the special interest regulations that protect certain businesses at the expense of the public's right to free choice. Liquor laws, whether they bring about an elevated risk of associated drunk driving, etc need to be brought into at minimum, the 20th century. And that's just one of the special interests that make our great state look so backwards.

"Don't make me call the flying monkeys . . ."
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9JVNSHI7Ps/TonmDSqN1nI/AAAAAAAAJIk/k-zWsokDMks/s1600/carrie.jpg

Sabbathhead
12-08-2012, 09:05 AM
If grocery stores could sell wine and high-point beer in Oklahoma, do you think it would really attract stores like Costco and a much needed mid-high end grocery chain like Publix? Or would it simply hurt the local liquor stores because Wal-Mart can now sell wine and strong beer. Stores like Costco, Trader Joe's, etc exist in other 3.2 or package-store only wine states so I don't 100% buy that excuse. Thoughts?

We moved here from South Carolina (Bible belt)this year and they didnt have these crazy laws.A liquor store sells liquor not beer ! We had bars all over the place like Oklahoma has liquor stores on every corner. We werent overrun with liquor stores on every corner and strip mall. I love living here now, but damn the laws need to get up with the rest of the country ! Its also not called " strong beer" its normal beer, unlike the watered down **** here. I only buy Corona's here or i pickup a couple cases of Bud when i'm near the Texas border.

mcca7596
12-08-2012, 10:36 AM
If the liquor laws of Oklahoma were modernized then Oklahoma would
have more alcoholics. Ya gotta love it!

There's nothing quite as nice as so-called progress. As we always say,
"to hell with family and neighbors, let's get drunk!"

It's a wonderful world.

I see more family friendly qualities in states that are modern and not stuck in 1950.

bchris02
12-08-2012, 10:59 AM
If the liquor laws of Oklahoma were modernized then Oklahoma would
have more alcoholics. Ya gotta love it!

There's nothing quite as nice as so-called progress. As we always say,
"to hell with family and neighbors, let's get drunk!"

It's a wonderful world.

I suppose you would support a ban on alcohol entirely. We tried that before and it didn't work. Like it or not American culture is loosening up its views on alcohol and there are a lot of moderate drinkers out there (while at the same time tobacco is becoming a taboo). Prohibition actually encourages alcoholism as it causes people to binge drink rather than drink responsibly.

The current laws don't keep people from drinking but they, by some measures, could be keeping business out of this state that would otherwise be here, lowering quality of life for everyone, drinkers or not.

EDIT: One more thing is that the current liquor laws keep many high-quality, craft beers out of the state that are sold in neighboring states. People who go after these expensive beers drink for the flavor and are more likely to be responsible drinkers. All these laws do is give a bad image of our state to young people, keep businesses out like Costco or a good grocery chain, and make it more difficult for the responsible drinker while doing nothing for the binge drinker who can get drunk on cheap Whiskey from a liquor store or 3.2 Budweiser.

Bunty
12-08-2012, 11:03 AM
If the liquor laws of Oklahoma were modernized then Oklahoma would
have more alcoholics. Ya gotta love it!

There's nothing quite as nice as so-called progress. As we always say,
"to hell with family and neighbors, let's get drunk!"

It's a wonderful world.
Your parents must have thought the very same thing back in 1959 when Oklahoma was crazy enough to vote to repeal prohibition of alcohol. Strange how Oklahoma took so long to do that while Utah was one of the states to ratify the 21st Amendment in 1933, which repealed alcohol prohibition. Oklahoma was one of the 8 states that never did.
It's a wonderful world.

Bunty
12-08-2012, 11:06 AM
It is time for Oklahoma to get with the friggin program!!!!!

We're probably lucky, though, that Oklahoma alcohol laws are more consistent and less confusing than in some of the other states.

ljbab728
12-08-2012, 08:39 PM
How funny that pp rants all of the time about constitutional laws. Where is it in the constitution that the government should regulate alcohol? He thinks we should have no laws that regulate weapons of any category but that we should regulate alcohol availability. But then consistency is never his strong point. We can all agree with that.

Prunepicker
12-08-2012, 09:36 PM
I suppose you would support a ban on alcohol entirely...
Yes, I would. Drunkenness is a horrific problem to our society.
As are drugs, whiskey and the like should be totally banned. It causes
more problems than solutions.

CaptDave
12-08-2012, 10:53 PM
And yet bourbon distilling was started by the right Reverend Elijah Craig.......another inconvenient truth. But he was probably the "wrong" kind of reverend......

ljbab728
12-08-2012, 10:55 PM
Yes, I would. Drunkenness is a horrific problem to our society.
As are drugs, whiskey and the like should be totally banned. It causes
more problems than solutions.

Just as crimes commited with guns are and we know how you feel about weapons. Conflicted much when it comes to government intrusion into our lives?

Bunty
12-09-2012, 12:02 AM
Yes, I would. Drunkenness is a horrific problem to our society.
As are drugs, whiskey and the like should be totally banned. It causes
more problems than solutions.

As deeply as you abhor taxation, how would it be possible to find the funding to build a bunch of new prisons to put criminal drinkers? The U. S. is the most highly imprisoned nation in the world as it is. Yet, there is still drunk driving and getting high going on. So I assume it would take a lot more imprisonment to try to get rid of drinkers. And then the problem about outsiders throwing whiskey over the prison fence late at night. However, much of the desire to ban substances is motivated due to prejudice against race. Ban a substance a race of people you don't like uses, and you have a means of getting rid of such people by putting them in prison. So Prunepicker, is much of your desire to ban alcohol based on racism?

rcjunkie
12-09-2012, 08:08 AM
It is time for Oklahoma to get with the friggin program!!!!!

Right on brother, how can we have a thriving, successful, society when you can't be liquor or high point beer on every street corner.

bchris02
12-09-2012, 08:38 AM
Yes, I would. Drunkenness is a horrific problem to our society.
As are drugs, whiskey and the like should be totally banned. It causes
more problems than solutions.

The Bible does not forbid all alcohol consumption, simply drunkenness. Jesus himself drank wine. You have probably been told it was only grape juice but there is nothing to back that up in Scripture or extra-biblical evidence. It's simply a person's opinion. The anti-alcohol movement in this country is rooted entirely in the late 19th century temperance movement. Prohibition does not work as its been tried before and it was such a disaster it was repealed very quickly. What needs to be encouraged is responsible drinking vs binge drinking which is largely a result of the fact alcohol is considered a taboo to young people.

Hawk405359
12-09-2012, 08:43 AM
It should be up to the market to determine it. The government doesn't much business trying to regulate morality based on the more puritanical of people in the country.

We already saw what happened the last time the government tried to ban alcohol. It practically created gang violence in this country and crime rates went up significantly, the complete opposite of what Billy Sunday claimed was going to happen.

kelroy55
12-09-2012, 09:16 AM
Why do you folks, myself included, argue or try to make sense out of PP's posts? It doesn't change his way of thinking, notice I didn't say logic. 95% of the posts are intelligent and add to the topic but we focus on the small percentage that don't.

Bunty
12-09-2012, 01:19 PM
Why do you folks, myself included, argue or try to make sense out of PP's posts? It doesn't change his way of thinking, notice I didn't say logic. 95% of the posts are intelligent and add to the topic but we focus on the small percentage that don't.

I thought it was 50%.

onthestrip
12-09-2012, 04:12 PM
If the liquor laws of Oklahoma were modernized then Oklahoma would
have more alcoholics. Ya gotta love it!

There's nothing quite as nice as so-called progress. As we always say,
"to hell with family and neighbors, let's get drunk!"

It's a wonderful world.

So why dont we limit the amount of liquor stores in the state. Maybe a moratorium on new liquor store openings? Since, according to you, it causes more alcoholism

onthestrip
12-09-2012, 04:16 PM
Right on brother, how can we have a thriving, successful, society when you can't be liquor or high point beer on every street corner.

We already do.

Celebrator
12-09-2012, 07:08 PM
I don't drink at all and I want the laws changed because of the effect it will have on the grocery business in this market. I have lived in other states with more liberal or modern liquor laws and I did not notice that alcohol-related problems were any worse than they are here. I can't tell the difference in that area, but I sure can in the area of the grocery choice. All though even that is MUCH better now than it was about 16 months ago!

Mel
12-09-2012, 07:20 PM
I always found the public acceptance and enthusiasm for pubs, bars, boozers, whatever, kind of hypocritical with their equal loathing of drunkenness and all the harm and sorrow that has caused. Not just driving but alcoholic parents aren't much fun. Maybe it should be regulated a bit more. Would licensed drinkers be to far a push? Saying that, I do wish a could pick up my Hakutsuru Sake at the same time I'm getting supplies for making sushi and sashimi.

Hawk405359
12-09-2012, 07:59 PM
How would you license drinkers?

Bill Robertson
12-10-2012, 08:08 AM
Its also not called " strong beer" its normal beer, unlike the watered down **** here. I only buy Corona's here or i pickup a couple cases of Bud when i'm near the Texas border.There's really not as much difference as most think. "Normal" Corona is 4.6 percent by volume. Oklahoma beer 3.2 percent by weight. When you do the conversion, 3.2 percent by weight would be 4.0 percent by volume. So it's 4.6 compared to 4.0. Only a .6 percent difference, not 1.4 percent. Most also refer to Texas beer as 6-point. All the Texas Bud or Coors varieties are between 4.0 and 5.9 percent by volume or 2.8 to 4.13 percent by weight.

kevinpate
12-10-2012, 09:13 AM
How would you license drinkers?

Have them take a timed written tests after several shots of good rum?

hrdware
12-10-2012, 10:34 AM
How would you license drinkers?

First we set up a training class that anyone who wants to drink must take. This class would educate drinkers on all OK laws regarding consumption of alcohol and when and where it is appropriate. A test would be given covering the laws that those persons would be held accountable for. The test would also include safety related questions such as, "You have had 10 beers over the course of a 4 hour football game. Are you in a safe condition to drive yourself home?". Upon passing the class, the drinker would be issued a certificate. The drinker must then fill out an application for a "Drinking License" and submit the application, certificate of course completion and $100 to the OSBI. OSBI would then have 60 days to do a background check on this person to check their mental health and driving record. Upon finding no reason the person should not be allowed to drink, the Drinking License shall be issued.

The drinker must be in possession of their Drinking License any time they wish to enjoy an adult beverage. Any Law Enforcement officer of the state may demand to see the Drinking License at any time they see someone drinking although no law is being broken. This drinking license is only good for 5 years and may be renewed for the cost of 85 for an additional 5 years.

We already have a system in place for licensing law abiding citizens to do legal things.....we just need to extend it.

Bill Robertson
12-10-2012, 11:02 AM
First we set up a training class that anyone who wants to drink must take. This class would educate drinkers on all OK laws regarding consumption of alcohol and when and where it is appropriate. A test would be given covering the laws that those persons would be held accountable for. The test would also include safety related questions such as, "You have had 10 beers over the course of a 4 hour football game. Are you in a safe condition to drive yourself home?". Upon passing the class, the drinker would be issued a certificate. The drinker must then fill out an application for a "Drinking License" and submit the application, certificate of course completion and $100 to the OSBI. OSBI would then have 60 days to do a background check on this person to check their mental health and driving record. Upon finding no reason the person should not be allowed to drink, the Drinking License shall be issued.

The drinker must be in possession of their Drinking License any time they wish to enjoy an adult beverage. Any Law Enforcement officer of the state may demand to see the Drinking License at any time they see someone drinking although no law is being broken. This drinking license is only good for 5 years and may be renewed for the cost of 85 for an additional 5 years.

We already have a system in place for licensing law abiding citizens to do legal things.....we just need to extend it.Sounds eerily like a carry license. And it doesn't actually sound like all that bad an idea.

Mel
12-10-2012, 11:18 AM
How would you license drinkers?


It's the folks in pubs that aren't loud and making a jackhole of themselves. ;-) I really don't know. I was just pondering.

ddavidson8
12-10-2012, 11:26 AM
There are PLENTY of thriving liquor stores in Houston.

Just the facts
12-10-2012, 01:39 PM
Oklahoma has made the issue much harder than it needs to be, and it done to protect the liquor industry. All these other 'things' are just decorations.

Soonerman
12-10-2012, 01:44 PM
Do any of you think that these stupid Laws are keeping stores like World Market from coming to OKC? Because they have stores in Kansas and Colorado and they have similar liquor laws that Oklahoma has.

Just the facts
12-10-2012, 01:51 PM
Do any of you think that these stupid Laws are keeping stores like World Market from coming to OKC? Because they have stores in Kansas and Colorado and they have similar liquor laws that Oklahoma has.

It is probably a combination of things, but when take all together they have an effect. Oklahoma has a population density and per capita income problem but allowing wine sales could over come that. But having a population density, low per capita income, AND restricted wine sales makes it a no-go. Strike 1, you are still at-bat. Strike 2, you are still at-bat. Strike 3, you're out.

Hawk405359
12-10-2012, 02:19 PM
First we set up a training class that anyone who wants to drink must take. This class would educate drinkers on all OK laws regarding consumption of alcohol and when and where it is appropriate. A test would be given covering the laws that those persons would be held accountable for. The test would also include safety related questions such as, "You have had 10 beers over the course of a 4 hour football game. Are you in a safe condition to drive yourself home?". Upon passing the class, the drinker would be issued a certificate. The drinker must then fill out an application for a "Drinking License" and submit the application, certificate of course completion and $100 to the OSBI. OSBI would then have 60 days to do a background check on this person to check their mental health and driving record. Upon finding no reason the person should not be allowed to drink, the Drinking License shall be issued.

The drinker must be in possession of their Drinking License any time they wish to enjoy an adult beverage. Any Law Enforcement officer of the state may demand to see the Drinking License at any time they see someone drinking although no law is being broken. This drinking license is only good for 5 years and may be renewed for the cost of 85 for an additional 5 years.

We already have a system in place for licensing law abiding citizens to do legal things.....we just need to extend it.

That'd go over as well as a wet fart in church, and is far too costly and needlessly complicated to allow legal adults to enjoy a glass of wine with their meal.

OSBI has enough on their plates without having to do background checks for the million and a half or so Oklahomans who would be interested in licenses, especially considering that their staff is under 500 people. They'd have to build another agency solely to do these needless background checks, and I don't think that's even something you have to do when getting a car, so why would you need one for a beer? Cops certainly have far more important things to do than troll every restaurant demanding to see drinker's licenses.

And what would be the result? People get driver's licenses and still break the law, why would it be any different from a drinking license? You revoke the license and they can't get a beer? Not likely, they'd just do what kids now do, have a buddy get it for them. The restaurant industry would hate it, considering alcohol is far more of a money maker than food is and you're telling them that their legal-aged customers have to spend $185 over 10 years, as well as time off work to take the course/test, not for a job that helps them get paid and contributes to the economy, but for the right to have a beer with a meal. Are we really at the point where what we eat and drink is considered something that the government should be able to force licenses to do?

All of it just sounds like a terrible idea to me.

Edit: It just occurs to me that I may have missed a sarcastic response comparing getting a drink with owning a firearm. If that is the case, then I apologize and admit that you got me there.

Stew
12-10-2012, 02:50 PM
First we set up a training class that anyone who wants to drink must take. This class would educate drinkers on all OK laws regarding consumption of alcohol and when and where it is appropriate. A test would be given covering the laws that those persons would be held accountable for. The test would also include safety related questions such as, "You have had 10 beers over the course of a 4 hour football game. Are you in a safe condition to drive yourself home?". Upon passing the class, the drinker would be issued a certificate. The drinker must then fill out an application for a "Drinking License" and submit the application, certificate of course completion and $100 to the OSBI. OSBI would then have 60 days to do a background check on this person to check their mental health and driving record. Upon finding no reason the person should not be allowed to drink, the Drinking License shall be issued.

The drinker must be in possession of their Drinking License any time they wish to enjoy an adult beverage. Any Law Enforcement officer of the state may demand to see the Drinking License at any time they see someone drinking although no law is being broken. This drinking license is only good for 5 years and may be renewed for the cost of 85 for an additional 5 years.

We already have a system in place for licensing law abiding citizens to do legal things.....we just need to extend it.

You can never have too much government involvement. Perhaps the government could issue licenses for eating, sex and parenting since those activities too have detrimental consequences to society when done irresponsibly. We need government to fill a role of mentor or a benevolent big brother to save us from ourselves. As individuals we haven't a lick of sense and should be treated as such. That's is the only way we can be free in a responsible way.

bchris02
12-10-2012, 03:06 PM
Do any of you think that these stupid Laws are keeping stores like World Market from coming to OKC? Because they have stores in Kansas and Colorado and they have similar liquor laws that Oklahoma has.

Partially yes. Another huge factor is Wal-Mart's dominance. These speciality stores need to be able to sell wine and import beer to be profitable in a market that is as value-conscious as OKC. If World Market comes to Oklahoma I expect Tulsa first followed by OKC if it's successful. Tulsa looks better on paper due to how marketing "experts" get their research i.e. Wikipedia.

hrdware
12-11-2012, 09:45 AM
That'd go over as well as a wet fart in church, and is far too costly and needlessly complicated to allow legal adults to enjoy a glass of wine with their meal.

OSBI has enough on their plates without having to do background checks for the million and a half or so Oklahomans who would be interested in licenses, especially considering that their staff is under 500 people. They'd have to build another agency solely to do these needless background checks, and I don't think that's even something you have to do when getting a car, so why would you need one for a beer? Cops certainly have far more important things to do than troll every restaurant demanding to see drinker's licenses.

And what would be the result? People get driver's licenses and still break the law, why would it be any different from a drinking license? You revoke the license and they can't get a beer? Not likely, they'd just do what kids now do, have a buddy get it for them. The restaurant industry would hate it, considering alcohol is far more of a money maker than food is and you're telling them that their legal-aged customers have to spend $185 over 10 years, as well as time off work to take the course/test, not for a job that helps them get paid and contributes to the economy, but for the right to have a beer with a meal. Are we really at the point where what we eat and drink is considered something that the government should be able to force licenses to do?

All of it just sounds like a terrible idea to me.

Edit: It just occurs to me that I may have missed a sarcastic response comparing getting a drink with owning a firearm. If that is the case, then I apologize and admit that you got me there.

Yeah, I was being sarcastic while at the same time trying to point out that regulating things doesn't work well at all. :evilsmile

bille
12-11-2012, 01:14 PM
If grocery stores could sell wine and high-point beer in Oklahoma, do you think it would really attract stores like Costco and a much needed mid-high end grocery chain like Publix? Or would it simply hurt the local liquor stores because Wal-Mart can now sell wine and strong beer. Stores like Costco, Trader Joe's, etc exist in other 3.2 or package-store only wine states so I don't 100% buy that excuse. Thoughts?
Yes and yes. The argument for the 'high-point beer' and wine sells in establishments other than a liquor store is a pretty loaded argument. Those pushing for this a year or two ago found that out and opted to take a step back and reevaluate the end goal with a board of diversified folks determined to educate themselves and the public on alcohol, the current laws and how they intend to move our state forward with the passing of more modern laws...at least that's what I like to think anyway.

If/when it becomes legal, sure, we'll see more of those stores come into the market and sure you could expect to see a percentage of liquor stores close up shop due to losses in revenue, however, it's my honest opinion that those that see losses so great they have no other choice than to close are going to be the stores that were/are only in it for the money and failed to write 'customer satisfaction' into their business plan by offering what the customers really want. The big box stores, etc. won't bother carrying a full line of brand X nor will they stay on top of all the seasonals, special releases, etc. Additionally most won't have more than one (if they even have one) beer, wine, and/or spirits connoisseur and that'll make a difference to a lot of people that are out shopping for $50 bottle of wine or spirits. Most of you that have been in any number of liquor stores know the difference between a dedicated store and one that just exists. #hint: many stores that exist have an uncanny ability to materialize in 7 Eleven commercial strips as of late..


The Bible does not forbid all alcohol consumption, simply drunkenness. Jesus himself drank wine. You have probably been told it was only grape juice but there is nothing to back that up in Scripture or extra-biblical evidence. It's simply a person's opinion. The anti-alcohol movement in this country is rooted entirely in the late 19th century temperance movement. Prohibition does not work as it's been tried before and it was such a disaster it was repealed very quickly. What needs to be encouraged is responsible drinking vs binge drinking which is largely a result of the fact alcohol is considered a taboo to young people.

Prohibition has in fact been tried before, failing experiments in other countries prior to AmericanProhibition V2.0 and yes, as in other attempts it was a disaster. Repealed very quickly? Eh, I wouldn't say that. Worse is we are still feeling the lingering effects of prohibition (hence the thread topic) and which brings me to...


Oklahoma has made the issue much harder than it needs to be, and it done to protect the liquor industry. All these other 'things' are just decorations.
Is that a fact? My understanding is the laws that bind our hands here, now are leftover remnants of prohibition. Now, defending of those archaic laws is being done in part to protect the industry, I do agree there. It's largely about money, it was back then when prohibition was repealed and it is now too as folks push to have laws relaxed, overturned, etc. The best step is going to be educating those pushing for these changes so that they can speak eloquently to those that aren't educated, those that have no desire to be educated, as well as those that are just opposed to change in general. Understanding and being able to explain potential outcomes with the passing of these types of laws is imperative.


There's really not as much difference as most think. "Normal" Corona is 4.6 percent by volume. Oklahoma beer 3.2 percent by weight. When you do the conversion, 3.2 percent by weight would be 4.0 percent by volume. So it's 4.6 compared to 4.0. Only a .6 percent difference, not 1.4 percent. Most also refer to Texas beer as 6-point. All the Texas Bud or Coors varieties are between 4.0 and 5.9 percent by volume or 2.8 to 4.13 percent by weight.
This is pet peeve of mine when discussing alcohol laws/reform/etc. Thanks for explaining it so I didn't have to!

RadicalModerate
12-11-2012, 01:18 PM
Oklahoma has made the issue much harder than it needs to be, and it done to protect the liquor industry. All these other 'things' are just decorations.

Perhaps you meant: The Liquor Distribution Cartel?
(carry on . . .)

jerrywall
12-11-2012, 03:20 PM
I always hate when people use "modernize" as a goal for liquor laws. Be specific. Because otherwise, "modernize" just means "the various laws I want".

I mean - look at the list of laws for states across the country - List of alcohol laws of the United States by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_the_United_States_by_state)

What's the "standard" or "modern" law sets? What's the example state? The most liberal laws? Why? Oklahoma sits somewhere in the moderate area of laws, between stupid restrictive, all state owned liquor sales, and fully liberal, anything goes liquor laws. In many ways, our laws are less confusing that more "modern" or "liberal" states. I remember trying to find a case of beer in Baltimore. And drinking club cards in Dallas metro? I mean, really?

Maybe modern means drive through frozen daiquiri stands?

My wish list? Refrigeration in liquor stores, and 7 days a week. Don't really care about grocery sales, since I pass 3 liquor stores heading to any grocery store, and I can get in and out of a liquor store quicker.

Just the facts
12-11-2012, 07:55 PM
Yes - I meant the The Liquor Distribution Cartel.

RadicalModerate
12-12-2012, 04:43 PM
I think that Oklahoma needs to look to Missouri and Wisconsin as models for the New State o' The Art liquor laws.
Maybe just Missouri. It's closer.

bille
12-13-2012, 09:54 AM
I always hate when people use "modernize" as a goal for liquor laws. Be specific. Because otherwise, "modernize" just means "the various laws I want".

I mean - look at the list of laws for states across the country - List of alcohol laws of the United States by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_the_United_States_by_state)

What's the "standard" or "modern" law sets? What's the example state? The most liberal laws? Why? Oklahoma sits somewhere in the moderate area of laws, between stupid restrictive, all state owned liquor sales, and fully liberal, anything goes liquor laws. In many ways, our laws are less confusing that more "modern" or "liberal" states. I remember trying to find a case of beer in Baltimore. And drinking club cards in Dallas metro? I mean, really?

Maybe modern means drive through frozen daiquiri stands?

My wish list? Refrigeration in liquor stores, and 7 days a week. Don't really care about grocery sales, since I pass 3 liquor stores heading to any grocery store, and I can get in and out of a liquor store quicker.

I don't really take it that way. Honestly though, I looked up 'modern' before replying to make sure I understood the context. That said I still agree that OK as well as most other states' alcohol laws could use some reform. There are just too many things related to a lot of these laws from 10, 20, or 80 years ago that no longer apply or makes sense. Actually, it probably never made sense back then either but the education wasn't there for those making the decisions so we are dealing with the repercussions now. How they defined 'non-intoxicating' alcohol is a perfect example (that's a great story btw).

As far as your wish list goes I agree! I've said it many times that the first step is overcoming the refrigeration issue. Teaching the public that it's about quality/storage of the product and not so 'we' can have a chilled bottle of merlot or 12% barleywine to chug on the drive home isn't going to be easy but it's certainly the first hurdle imo.

Just the facts
12-13-2012, 10:22 AM
I like the Florida laws.

bchris02
01-24-2013, 06:17 PM
I have been thinking about this, and I wonder why Oklahoma doesn't model its liquor laws after neighboring Arkansas, also a conservative state.

Strong beer and Oklahoma-made wine in grocery stores. Everything else in package stores. Such a policy would be a boon for state wineries but would still preserve liquor stores as the exclusive place for wide selection and hard liquor. Anybody disagree with that approach?

Arkansas also gives counties options of stricter alcohol laws than the state requires.

RadicalModerate
01-24-2013, 06:51 PM
I'm glad you have been thinking about this. Perhaps you might direct those thoughts regarding a "model" for revamping our ancient and hackneyed "spirit control measures" slightly to the north? Like Missouri or Wisconsin . . . ? I mean, if you are going to dream of a day when The Local Liquor Cabal/Mafia/Cartel/etc. aren't continuing to perpetuate their interests with "effective lobbying" then dream big. Right? =)

bchris02
01-24-2013, 07:24 PM
I'm glad you have been thinking about this. Perhaps you might direct those thoughts regarding a "model" for revamping our ancient and hackneyed "spirit control measures" slightly to the north? Like Missouri or Wisconsin . . . ? I mean, if you are going to dream of a day when The Local Liquor Cabal/Mafia/Cartel/etc. aren't continuing to perpetuate their interests with "effective lobbying" then dream big. Right? =)

Of course laws like Missouri or Wisconsin would be nice, but I have a difficult time believing they could pass in Oklahoma. In fact, I don't see the current laws changing any time soon. Even if it was put up for a vote, it would probably be a close vote and may not pass. Most of rural Oklahoma is still pretty heavily against alcohol consumption on religious grounds, and being that a change would require a statewide vote it couldn't pass without the support of the rural areas.

Our best bet near term is to lift the restriction on selling cold beer in liquor stores. That is probably the biggest inconvenience to the consumer regarding the current laws. A lot of craft breweries won't even sell in Oklahoma until that law is changed. It doesn't make since you can buy whiskey by the shot but not cold beer. People are FAR more likely to chug hard liquor in their cars than guzzle down a six pack. Another thing that baffles me is you can buy 3.2 beer singles, cold, at gas stations yet strong beer has to be warm to "prevent DUIs." Does anybody know if the legislature could do that or would that also require a change to the Constitution?

NoOkie
01-25-2013, 07:11 AM
Of course laws like Missouri or Wisconsin would be nice, but I have a difficult time believing they could pass in Oklahoma. In fact, I don't see the current laws changing any time soon. Even if it was put up for a vote, it would probably be a close vote and may not pass. Most of rural Oklahoma is still pretty heavily against alcohol consumption on religious grounds, and being that a change would require a statewide vote it couldn't pass without the support of the rural areas.

Our best bet near term is to lift the restriction on selling cold beer in liquor stores. That is probably the biggest inconvenience to the consumer regarding the current laws. A lot of craft breweries won't even sell in Oklahoma until that law is changed. It doesn't make since you can buy whiskey by the shot but not cold beer. People are FAR more likely to chug hard liquor in their cars than guzzle down a six pack. Another thing that baffles me is you can buy 3.2 beer singles, cold, at gas stations yet strong beer has to be warm to "prevent DUIs." Does anybody know if the legislature could do that or would that also require a change to the Constitution?

I still find the distinction between "low point" and "strong beer" to be the strangest thing about the laws.

OKCPhotog
01-25-2013, 09:57 AM
Here are all of the proposed bills in the 2013 Oklahoma Legislature pertaining to alcohol. Hopefully OK's state government has some sense and decides to pass some of these into law except for HB1748, it seems to me that that provision could only hurt our local brewers.

HB1748 - Raises taxes on low-point beer (taxes on barrels of beer)
HB2061 - Bans low-point beer sales when a computer-assisted checkout is an option
HJR1001 - Sell wine in grocery stores; liquor stores sell refrigerated beer, wine, and mixed beverages
HJR1035 - Sell wine through the mail
HJR1041 - Liquor stores can sell accessories (bottle openers)
SB179 - Allows distilleries to sell products on premise and allows samples
SJR 7 - Renames ABLE to Oklahoma Bureau of Alcohol and Drug Enforcement; adds drug laws enforcement to responsibilities

RadicalModerate
01-25-2013, 10:11 AM
"HB2061 - Bans low-point beer sales when a computer-assisted checkout is an option"

Yes . . . It will be a great day, indeed--for the Great State of Oklahoma--when all convenience stores have to return to the use of these:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gm7KAZN_w1A/Ta4DETasg3I/AAAAAAAAFdw/SgIme7Hnn9A/s400/april+19+cash+register+3.jpg
(d'ya s'pose some legislators have stock in the companies that manufacture 'em?
do they realize that barcodes and scanners are the marks and tools of The Beast?
are they really thinkin' about movin' the capital back to Guthrie?
are we sure that the person behind the counter could operate without the wires connected to his head?)

onthestrip
01-25-2013, 10:17 AM
I know liquor stores dont want any change but if we are to allow grocery stores to sell wine and high point beer then allow liquor stores to sell refrigerated beer, bottle openers and such, garnishes like limes, mixers, or hell, even cigarettes (basically like Colorado).

I understand its somewhat unfair to allow grocery stores to have wine and high point beer, and also get to sell everything else, but not allow liquor stores to sell anything else.

It appears though that liquor stores would rather keep the status quo, probably because they dont want to have to spend any money on refrigerators.

OKCPhotog
01-25-2013, 10:27 AM
I know liquor stores dont want any change but if we are to allow grocery stores to sell wine and high point beer then allow liquor stores to sell refrigerated beer, bottle openers and such, garnishes like limes, mixers, or hell, even cigarettes (basically like Colorado).

I understand its somewhat unfair to allow grocery stores to have wine and high point beer, and also get to sell everything else, but not allow liquor stores to sell anything else.

It appears though that liquor stores would rather keep the status quo, probably because they dont want to have to spend any money on refrigerators.

Grocery stores in Colorado are not allowed to sell wine, liquor or high point beer actually without a separate license. The largest difference in CO is that the liquor stores can sell refrigerated high point beer and something that will never happen in OK the liquor stores there are open on SUNDAYS!

OKCPhotog
01-25-2013, 10:29 AM
"HB2061 - Bans low-point beer sales when a computer-assisted checkout is an option"

Yes . . . It will be a great day, indeed--for the Great State of Oklahoma--when all convenience stores have to return to the use of these:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gm7KAZN_w1A/Ta4DETasg3I/AAAAAAAAFdw/SgIme7Hnn9A/s400/april+19+cash+register+3.jpg
(d'ya s'pose some legislators have stock in the companies that manufacture 'em?
do they realize that barcodes and scanners are the marks and tools of The Beast?
are they really thinkin' about movin' the capital back to Guthrie?
are we sure that the person behind the counter could operate without the wires connected to his head?)

I was wondering about this one as well. My first thought was that it's to stop people from buying beer at those self checkout deals at Wal-Mart but maybe it has to do with people ordering Beer online?

bchris02
01-25-2013, 10:30 AM
HB2061 is a bit unnerving. It's also unclear. Is this referring simply to self checkouts? Does it mean any store which offers self checkouts can't sell beer or you simply can't buy it through the self-checkout option.

RadicalModerate
01-25-2013, 10:42 AM
HB2061 is a bit unnerving. It's also unclear. Is this referring simply to self checkouts? Does it mean any store which offers self checkouts can't sell beer or you simply can't buy it through the self-checkout option.

Trust me: It will provide lots of lawyers lots of opportunities to sort of sort out what it means.
(where is the part about requiring the purchase of a package of condoms to offset the possibility of alcohol-related lives that might later lead to other issues?)

I think that we need to draw the line at "openers" and other accessories:
Look what happened with allowing Remington Park to open the door to The Plague of Gambling!
(next think you know, smoke shops will be selling marijuana like it's medicine or sumpin' . . . like in Colorado.)

RadicalModerate
01-25-2013, 10:52 AM
Here are all of the proposed bills in the 2013 Oklahoma Legislature pertaining to alcohol. Hopefully OK's state government has some sense and decides to pass some of these into law except for HB1748, it seems to me that that provision could only hurt our local brewers.

SJR 7 - Renames ABLE to Oklahoma Bureau of Alcohol and Drug Enforcement; adds drug laws enforcement to responsibilities

Yeah . . . OBADE . . . that's the ticket . . .
Way better than ABLE . . . UN-ABLE is more like it . . .
Did any of these guys in The Statehouse used to work as Imagineers for Disney?
Sorry . . . Bringing Mr. Disney into this discussion is an insult to people with actual, real imagination and vision. I was wrong. I apologize.

onthestrip
01-25-2013, 11:48 AM
Pretty sure Ive bought beer through the self checkout at Wal Mart and it required an attendant to come verify my age. Maybe they felt it neededto be in some fancy written bill or something.