I hope they will promote places to go to sign this petition. They appear to think it's smarter to put the question on the Nov. 2014 ballot, rather than Nov. 2013.

Oklahoma Grocery Store Wine Proposal Being Renewed - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/22292608/oklahoma-grocery-store-wine-proposal-being-renewed)A person wrote a piece of commentary stating that the people behind are Costco and they wrote it to make it to where almost all other grocers would not be able to sell liquor. . . any people in the know, can confirm this???? or is it just someone running their "keyboard"

I don't know who wrote it, but it has some weird restrictions. Minimum population for counties of the grocery store, minimum store size (like 25,000 SF if I recall), etc.

I don't know who wrote it, but it has some weird restrictions. Minimum population for counties of the grocery store, minimum store size (like 25,000 SF if I recall), etc.

What is the average size of a Homeland or Crest store? I would not support this if it was rigged that only Costco or Walmart could sell wine while the smaller chains could not.

uh, Bunty ... Nov. 2013 ballot? Huh?

I was wondering if they ever vote for statewide issues in November of odd years. Maybe it doesn't have to be in November.

God, I hope not. It's a terrible proposal. It favors big, out of state grocery (like costco) freezes out smaller, in state grocery, and totally ignores convenience stores. The group behind it has no interested in "modernizing" anything. This would just create even more terrible and convoluted liquor laws, and put into place more protectionist than there currently is.

We deserve real modernization, not this crap.
Surely, bchris02 would love it, since he thinks it's so important to give the smaller counties something they can vote yes on. The proposal probably needs to be more similar to what has worked out well for other states.

I think Homeland and Crest stores are plenty big enough to meet 25,000 sq. feet.. But not Audi.

I've heard liquor by the drink is banned in Oklahoma on certain holidays, like Memorial Day. Is that true? Pretty dumb, pointless and backward, if true.

Whoever told you that must have been drunk.

I've heard liquor by the drink is banned in Oklahoma on certain holidays, like Memorial Day. Is that true? Pretty dumb, pointless and backward, if true.

Liquor stores are not allowed to be open on holidays, but I believe liquor by the drink is.

Whoever told you that must have been drunk.

He didn't seem to be at the time, but said he will have to double up for today.

Actually if I could buy strong beer at the grocery stores they would get more business from me. I drink at restaurants and bars. I have not been in a liquor store in years. I stop in convenience stores when I am in Texas to buy stronger Bud light though. Hopefully i can buy my strong beer at my local grocery store or convenience store in the near future though.

You go out of your way to buy Bud Light that's .2% stronger?

You go out of your way to buy Bud Light that's .2% stronger?

and that is only if the percentages are exact

You go out of your way to buy Bud Light that's .2% stronger?

I laughed at that too. Basically saying, "I go out of my way to buy my reduced alcohol beer." I think some people think "light" means diet, not reduced alcohol.

I think home delivery would be a nice modern step. You could name it rum runners or something like that.

I laughed at that too. Basically saying, "I go out of my way to buy my reduced alcohol beer." I think some people think "light" means diet, not reduced alcohol.

I'm not sure that Bud Light is technically "beer" . . .
(regardless of the supposed alcohol content)

I'm not sure that Bud Light is technically "beer" . . .
(regardless of the supposed alcohol content)
I concur.....

I laughed at that too. Basically saying, "I go out of my way to buy my reduced alcohol beer." I think some people think "light" means diet, not reduced alcohol.

It's just more proof that there are too many people, to include those that are on board for alcohol law reform, that know very little about beer. Sadly most of the knoweldge is learned either by rumor or memorized via the genius marketing of the big 3. The key to successful reform imo is changing people's knowledge/understanding of beer, it's processes <to include staling>. Additionally the comparison to wine and spirits needs to be made. It really makes no sense that the typically least alcoholic beverage has the most restrictions in terms of brewpubs versus wineries.


I'm not sure that Bud Light is technically "beer" . . .
(regardless of the supposed alcohol content)

AB was only giving the public what they wanted...their beers use to actually have flavour. Budweiser wasn't AB's first beer, just their most successful (until Bud Light anyway). It's been all about money for a long time though, especially now after the In-bev takeover. What's really sad (and insulting) is that they put out their new experiments under the Bud Light umbrella because they know their Bud Light fans will buy it (and they do). For BMC fans there's not much I can do for you but offer beer education and continually tell you that there are WAY more beers, beer styles, and most importantly flavours in beer that you have yet to discover. Once you travel that path and find that beer you never knew you were searching for you'll one day look back at AB's tasteless products and wonder why you wasted so much time drinking them...OR making specific trips out of state for 'six point!'. I know I did.

In a spasm of nostalgia, I had a Coors straight from the ice buckets at Rudy's to go with my pulled pork sandwich. It is brewed a few miles down the road from where I grew up. It was just as bland as I remember it being when I was a kid. Toured the plant once. The tour guide said ALL beer labeled "Coors" comes out of the same vats. Before the invasion of the "Lites" the only beer I knew of even blander and more watery than Coors "Banquet" "beer" was Olympia. Gee: I could'a had a Dos Equis. =)

What does all that have to do with "modernizing Oklahoma liquor laws" . . . ?
Uhhhhh I'm not sure, but I'd bet the Schlitz sold at liquor stores is better than the Schlitz at a 7-Eleven. (as if you can find any)

Oh yeah! The connection: You can get any beer (or wine or whatever) any day you want in Missouri and Wisconsin.
Including holidays. Surely Oklahoma is a bigger league state than either of those second-rate examples of just about everything.
(JUST KIDDING.)

In a spasm of nostalgia, I had a Coors straight from the ice buckets at Rudy's to go with my pulled pork sandwich. It is brewed a few miles down the road from where I grew up. It was just as bland as I remember it being when I was a kid. Toured the plant once. The tour guide said ALL beer labeled "Coors" comes out of the same vats. Before the invasion of the "Lites" the only beer I knew of even blander and more watery than Coors "Banquet" "beer" was Olympia. Gee: I could'a had a Dos Equis. =)

What does all that have to do with "modernizing Oklahoma liquor laws" . . . ?
Uhhhhh I'm not sure, but I'd bet the Schlitz sold at liquor stores is better than the Schlitz at a 7-Eleven. (as if you can find any)



'Better' meaning what, better tasting? Probably not. In fact I bet you (and most people) couldn't take the Pepsi challenge and be able to distinguish the difference in a beer sold at the convenience store in OK (3.2abw/4.0abv) versus it's 'high-point' equivalent sold at a liquor store. You don't have to take my word for it though, do an unbiased controlled experiment on your own. :)

A little insight on how many of those breweries produce those beers in different alcohol percentages: they brew/ferment those beers in a high alcohol format (perhaps a couple of points higher than what's packaged but don't quote me on that) and then they dilute it down with carbonated water to get the desired strength. My understanding is that there's essentially only two different %'s that hit the market, that of which the intended recipe calls for that goes out to the majority and then the lower amount required by states (like OK) that have a '3.2 law' in place. What I find peculiar is that in many cases the difference is extremely small (less than .5% usually) yet they still continue to make both versions and not just the lower ABV one (which would save them money). My assumption is it's a marketing thing and to 'water down' beer for profits would be commercial suicide, especially with the growth of craft beer and sales of mass market domestic light lager staying stagnant.

'Better' meaning what, better tasting? Probably not. In fact I bet you (and most people) couldn't take the Pepsi challenge and be able to distinguish the difference in a beer sold at the convenience store in OK (3.2abw/4.0abv) versus it's 'high-point' equivalent sold at a liquor store. You don't have to take my word for it though, do an unbiased controlled experiment on your own. :)


Believe it or not, I actually agree with you! (maybe i didn't make that clear . . . first time THAT's ever happened . . . =)
My favorite beers are along the lines of Smithwick's/Summit Porter (minn. only)/Sam Adams Boston Lager/Newcastle Brown Ale
My second-tier favorites are along the lines of Dos Equis (amber)/Killian's Irish Red/Shiner (available at grocery stores)
My third-tier favorites ("lawnmowing beer") [was] Old Milwaukee (but it's gone now)/Milwaukee's Best (also at grocery stores)

What do they have in common? Flavor, body and general "beerness" regardless of alcohol content.
Unlike just about everything produced by The Budweiser Group, especially from The Lite Brigade.
To me, it is simply a matter of taste.

Right now, I'm enjoying a Leine . . . not a dark or "herby" or "citrusy" Leine . . . simply a Leine.
(not available at grocery stores . . . oh well. =)

ps: Leine = Leinenkugel's (from Wisconsin, since 1867)

As good as Leine is, it proves my point about looking to Wisconsin for guidance in overhauling our local "beverage laws"...=)
(in addition to being a beer critic i'm also fond of inventing new contexts for logical fallacies . . . =)

I'm not sure that Bud Light is technically "beer" . . .
(regardless of the supposed alcohol content)

Technically it costs less than maybe your choice of a "real" beer but two of em in 30 minutes time would still put you on a scale of being buzzed and remember, "buzzed driving IS drunk driving"...

Thanks for the reminder . . . (of whatever it is to which you seem to be referring).
How about this: "In the End, all things considered, three seconds of 'buzzed' (cellphoning) in traffic is equal to three shots of fine Scotch Whisky."

(which, of course, has nothing to do with the thread topic unless you think about it. =)

Thanks for the reminder . . . (of whatever it is to which you seem to be referring).

Have another beer, lol.

You should try a DNR sometime. It'd probably put you to sleep though...

Have another beer, lol.
You should try a DNR sometime. It'd probably put you to sleep though...

Dude! What a great segue!!!
Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources (http://dnr.wi.gov/)
I think you made the case!!!
Thanks!

(oh. wait. you meant that LocalCoopBrew . . . not bad.
it is what is is. medium okie new-age.
with a hint of clever malts n' hops
along the line of Bugs and Daffy with suds.
I wonder if Foghorn Leghorn has been approached as a spokesperson for Coop.
Maybe Sam Elliot instead?)

I would like to try '6-point' Budweiser next to Oklahoma's 3.2 sometime to see if I can tell the difference. I know with beers such as Blue Moon, I can taste the difference between the 3.2 version and the real version. Some 3.2 beers though like Mustang Session '33 taste excellent in my opinion.

=)
Somehow, this thread seems to be drifting, mysteriously, from its "original intent" (If . . .) in the direction of that Okie Myths deal that was recently necroed (brought back from the dead), elsewhere in here, from 2009 . . .

(naw . . . that's impossible . . . our legislature can't possibly be . . . paid zombies????!!! "living" back around "Statehood" and "Pre-Prohibition" and such . . . could they? naw . . . that's impossible.)

Gazette Article: Local Breweries Take Big Baby Steps [in the direction of normalcy everywhere else] vis-a-vis brewing/tasting.

It's the Distribution Cartels, folks.
Follow the Money.
And I'm not saying that the crumbs lead right back to the capitol.
(really: i'm not.)

I would like to try '6-point' Budweiser next to Oklahoma's 3.2 sometime to see if I can tell the difference. I know with beers such as Blue Moon, I can taste the difference between the 3.2 version and the real version. Some 3.2 beers though like Mustang Session '33 taste excellent in my opinion.

A significant factor in the real and true appreciation of beer/the brewers' art depends upon the temperature at which it is served.
The same sense of appreciation would involve the experiential context of the appreciator.

Wouldn't it?

I'm the president or "gm" of a local beer club, and we regularly try both. I've tasted hundreds of beers (and have my name on the wall at 2 "old chicagos" for their beer clubs) and have traveled and visited beer chapters all over the country. I can't tell the difference between 3.2 and 3.4 beer. Maybe someone else has better taste than me.

Yet . . . I still maintain that there is a vast difference in taste between Bud or Miller Lite/non-Lite (grocery store) and . . .
Real Beer (also available at Grocery and Package Stores) =)

The real issue here is the ability of the free consumer in a free country to buy a bottle of wine to go with the steak or pork or chicken or fish at the same grocery/cheese/specialty store at which they purchased the other foodstuff.

(dang. i just realized that i'm still hung up on that neanderthalian liberal idea of freedom/liberty/opportunity . . . sorry)

Difference between say Blvd Wheat and Bud? A million miles. Difference between 3.2 Bud and 3.4 Bud? About half an inch.

Hmmm.... Honeybrown, anything from Coop. Chimay (esp Blue). Guinness of course. Hoegaarden.

And don't forget all of our Oklahoma brews. Not a fan of Choc, but Mustang Brewery has some fine beers, plus Battered Boar in Edmond, and Coop (Horny Toad beats Corona any day, and DNR is to "die for"). And, of course Oklahoma has Mmm Hops from Hanson.

I'm the president or "gm" of a local beer club, and we regularly try both. I've tasted hundreds of beers (and have my name on the wall at 2 "old chicagos" for their beer clubs) and have traveled and visited beer chapters all over the country. I can't tell the difference between 3.2 and 3.4 beer. Maybe someone else has better taste than me.

I agree. I seriously doubt the average person would be able to tell. In fact, I think about the only people would be able to tell a difference would be one with a stellar palate, experienced beer judge, etc. I know I'm neither.

What beer club is this? We have tastings at our homebrew club meetings but as you may imagine it's mostly homebrew. We do craft beer tastings as a group occasionally but they are inconsistent.


Difference between say Blvd Wheat and Bud? A million miles. Difference between 3.2 Bud and 3.4 Bud? About half an inch.

Hmmm.... Honeybrown, anything from Coop. Chimay (esp Blue). Guinness of course. Hoegaarden.

And don't forget all of our Oklahoma brews. Not a fan of Choc, but Mustang Brewery has some fine beers, plus Battered Boar in Edmond, and Coop (Horny Toad beats Corona any day, and DNR is to "die for"). And, of course Oklahoma has Mmm Hops from Hanson.

You missed one of the hottest tickets right now, Prairie Artisanal Ales! They're beers are being brewed at Choc currently but they are setting up a brewery in Tulsa currently. Although the beers are brewed at Choc their portfolio is completely different as most of Prairie's beers are barrel-aged. Curious though, you don't like ANY of Choc's beers? They have quite a few out. I can't say I'm a fan of all of them but I'm more of a fan than not. If you like hoppy beers the OPA is right up your alley!

You also missed the other brewers at Mustang's coop brewing facility (Anthem and Black Mesa). There's also OK's newest brewery, Roughtail, out of Midwest City. There's even more on the horizon but many are draft only so you have to venture to a pub to find their offerings.

We're the local chapter of the Hash House Harriers, which is the international "Drinking club with a Running Problem". We meet each Thursday at a bar to drink beer, and then on Saturdays we gather to run (2-5 miles) and then drink beer. I imagine between the local club, and my travels, I've had over 500 different beers in the past 5 years. It's always fun trying to find ones I haven't tried before.

I homebrew myself, as do several of our members locally, although it's been a couple of years. I recently setup a home tap, so I'm planning on brewing up a batch to keg soon.

I did forget about Anthem and Black Mesa. I especially enjoy the ESB from Black Mesa. On Choc, I haven't found one I liked. Just something about them a bit off, although admittedly I haven't tried them all. That being said, I haven't found a beer I couldn't drink (I even helped someone finish off a case of Boxer recently...)

We're the local chapter of the Hash House Harriers, which is the international "Drinking club with a Running Problem". We meet each Thursday at a bar to drink beer, and then on Saturdays we gather to run (2-5 miles) and then drink beer. I imagine between the local club, and my travels, I've had over 500 different beers in the past 5 years. It's always fun trying to find ones I haven't tried before.

I homebrew myself, as do several of our members locally, although it's been a couple of years. I recently setup a home tap, so I'm planning on brewing up a batch to keg soon.

I did forget about Anthem and Black Mesa. I especially enjoy the ESB from Black Mesa. On Choc, I haven't found one I liked. Just something about them a bit off, although admittedly I haven't tried them all. That being said, I haven't found a beer I couldn't drink (I even helped someone finish off a case of Boxer recently...)

Let me know how that goes, I've tried a couple batches of home brew and one turned out OK and the other not so. A beer that I like, Alien Amber, isn't sold here other than on tap at Old Chicago.

Let me know how that goes, I've tried a couple batches of home brew and one turned out OK and the other not so. A beer that I like, Alien Amber, isn't sold here other than on tap at Old Chicago.

My first batch was terrible, but since then I've done pretty well. When I first started I was using the pre-assembled kits, but the guys at the local brew shop convinced me to switch it up, and start improving the quality of ingredients (and make switches, like to liquid yeast so I could make a wider variety). The biggest problem I have is lack of patience.

Any homebrew questions feel free to ask! I've been brewing regularly for almost six years now. I've taught a bunch of classes and still do occasionally at Learn to Brew when they need a hand.

Patience and attention to detail is key as is learning and becoming familiar with the process. Using liquid yeast cultures and venturing outside of prepackaged kits is fine and certainly a worthy step but I don't recommend it until you're comfortable with the process. I know an engineer out here at work that has been brewing for a dozen years or so and to this day he still brews prepackaged extract kits because they are easy and consistent.