View Full Version : OK CO.detention center sales tax election to be scheduled as early as March 2013.



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kevinpate
11-29-2012, 08:52 AM
The chairman of an Oklahoma County committee tasked with planning a new detention center said a sales tax election will be scheduled as early as March.
Stacey Trumbo, the county engineer, said planning for the new adult-juvenile complex is nearing completion and that the county's legal team is now preparing a ballot.
County voters will be asked to support a 10-year, half-cent sales tax to support the estimated $350 million project, Trumbo said.
“I'm really of the opinion that maybe the committee's work is over and we need to just get on with ballot titles and go to a vote of the people, see what they have to say about it,” he said on Tuesday.
The county contracted with a Georgia consulting company in March to design the jail, identify a location and to develop a financing package to be presented to voters.
Talk of replacing the current downtown jail — opened in 1991 and the largest of its kind in the state — picked up steam in 2007, when the Justice Department outlined a series of management and operational deficiencies there.


more at:
Jail tax to go before Oklahoma County voters in March | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/jail-tax-to-go-before-oklahoma-county-voters-in-march/article/3732843)

soonerguru
11-29-2012, 08:59 AM
I will probably hold my nose and vote for it, because it's something our county needs.

kevinpate
11-29-2012, 09:05 AM
Is it? 350 mil to buy/build vs. 290 to renovate. Not my county, but I could certainly come up with better uses for that 60 mil difference.
Of course, I also wonder somewhat of figures being overstated. They certainly were in Cleveland County. The new jail ended up costing far
less than what was promoted as being necessary.

Cocaine
11-29-2012, 11:17 AM
nope I'm voting no on it. The current jail isn't even that old and shouldn't even be in the shape it's in.

Plutonic Panda
11-29-2012, 11:58 AM
I'll probably vote yes

MustangGT
11-29-2012, 12:52 PM
Whenever you see a price to renovate at a minimum add at least 1/3 to it for a more realistic cost. That is what OCPD did and decided to build new rather than renovate the old HQ's building. Both structures are sows ears and it is not possible to make silk purses out of them. Cocaine I understand your position but it is what it is. The administration that built the current monstrosity and the contractor fleeced the taxpayers then. I hope it does not happen again.

Spartan
11-29-2012, 01:21 PM
This proposition has no hope, and it shouldn't. The County has only themselves to blame for having no paddle.

The worst thing that could happen is a jail situation that forces Oklahoma to reconsider its costly incarceration strategy.

LakeEffect
11-29-2012, 02:23 PM
This proposition has no hope, and it shouldn't. The County has only themselves to blame for having no paddle.

The worst thing that could happen is a jail situation that forces Oklahoma to reconsider its costly incarceration strategy.

But that County administration is gone (for the most part). We need to fix their mistake. Why not do it right this time?

Spartan
11-29-2012, 02:28 PM
Depends what you mean by "gone." Now they have Whetsel who is pretty corrupt...

LakeEffect
11-29-2012, 03:02 PM
Depends what you mean by "gone." Now they have Whetsel who is pretty corrupt...

Corrupt in what way? He spends a lot on toys, but what else?

adaniel
11-29-2012, 03:25 PM
Does the county or voters in this county even have a choice?

Last I heard the DOJ had labeled this jail as unconstitutionally bad and will pretty much force OK County to build a new jail sometime in the future. And trust me if that's the case the county is going to get its money.

I have slim hopes of this passing, but like soonerguru I will hold my nose and vote for it. Voting against it is a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

OKCRT
11-29-2012, 03:34 PM
Corrupt in what way? He spends a lot on toys, but what else?


Maybe if they would go after real criminals instead of traffic violaters and weed smokers they might get some sympathy from the general public. They need to relax the laws on minor violations and go after the bad guys.If they did that they wouldn't need near as much room.

1972ford
11-29-2012, 03:37 PM
The county would need to informm the public of their intentions with the old jail once the new one is complete to get my vote. I think it would be a decent trade for the uhaul property if the city would get involved. High hopes but at least the public could have a good gain in the end

MustangGT
11-29-2012, 04:46 PM
Depends what you mean by "gone." Now they have Whetsel who is pretty corrupt...

Rough statement. Have you even a scintilla of proof or even suspicions? Also the county could be faced with DOJ closng the jail. What then?

Spartan
11-29-2012, 04:54 PM
He was using inmates to build his reelection signs. There was a southside business he blackmailed into putting up election signs for himself. He RAN initially on a platform to FIX the jail and it has only gotten worse, and now he wants a MAPS-type amount of funding to do it when he already spends a similar budget on military grade stuff that the cities don't even have.

Also we do not need a County police department. There are virtually no unincorporated areas left in Oklahoma County, and something could be worked out for the few areas that remain. It is an extremely expensive duplication of government services of the highest form. Also, every time they write a ticket for anything, that's revenue that the Cities comprising Oklahoma County LOSE out on.

If you ask me it's not just time we have a new sheriff in this here town, but time we get rid of the department altogether.

Plutonic Panda
11-29-2012, 05:05 PM
He was using inmates to build his reelection signs. There was a southside business he blackmailed into putting up election signs for himself. He RAN initially on a platform to FIX the jail and it has only gotten worse, and now he wants a MAPS-type amount of funding to do it when he already spends a similar budget on military grade stuff that the cities don't even have.

Also we do not need a County police department. There are virtually no unincorporated areas left in Oklahoma County, and something could be worked out for the few areas that remain. It is an extremely expensive duplication of government services of the highest form. Also, every time they write a ticket for anything, that's revenue that the Cities comprising Oklahoma County LOSE out on.

If you ask me it's not just time we have a new sheriff in this here town, but time we get rid of the department altogether.You mean OKC or other cities?

Spartan
11-29-2012, 05:21 PM
OKC, Edmond, MWC, you name it...

soonerguru
11-29-2012, 05:33 PM
Depends what you mean by "gone." Now they have Whetsel who is pretty corrupt...

Say wha?

adaniel
11-29-2012, 07:24 PM
He was using inmates to build his reelection signs. There was a southside business he blackmailed into putting up election signs for himself. He RAN initially on a platform to FIX the jail and it has only gotten worse, and now he wants a MAPS-type amount of funding to do it when he already spends a similar budget on military grade stuff that the cities don't even have.

Also we do not need a County police department. There are virtually no unincorporated areas left in Oklahoma County, and something could be worked out for the few areas that remain. It is an extremely expensive duplication of government services of the highest form. Also, every time they write a ticket for anything, that's revenue that the Cities comprising Oklahoma County LOSE out on.

If you ask me it's not just time we have a new sheriff in this here town, but time we get rid of the department altogether.

I can't believe that I'm about to defend the sheriff's department, but there's a lot they do that you are obviously unaware of.

They are not just the de facto police department for the unincorporated portions of the county (which btw there's quite a bit of unannexed land in this county). They are the jurisdiction over the county jail, which all inmates who are awaiting trial, no matter what city they are from, are held. In fact I believe the plurality of their employees just work at the jail. They provide a lot of assistance to the various PD's across the county. Only OKC and (maybe) Edmond are big enough to have a full service PD. Other little small towns around here (Bethany, Warr Acres, Forest Park, etc.) lean heavily on the sheriff's office for things like bomb squad, traffic control, swat team, K-9, etc. They have to chase down the ridiculous number of people in this county who have warrants. The list goes on and on....

I have never heard anything confirming your allegations, although it was reported in the news that a prisoner did paint some sign posts that were eventually used to make campaign signs. Not illegal, but maybe a bit unethical. The Sorrels campaign and a few wingnut bloggers around the state trying their best tot get another dang dirty Democrat out of office tried to make it into something it wasn't. Let's be clear that this came out in the summer. the voters had plenty of time to weight it and Sorrels still got bounced 65%-35%.

Trust me I have no dog in this fight. There are plenty of good-ole boy sheriffs in this state; maybe Whetsel is one of them and he just hides it really well. I think it is important that people know the truth about the whole matter though and not just heresy and internet innuendo.

I also think its worth repeating what I an a few other posters have already said. The DOJ is going to shut down this jail if dramatic improvements are not made. Then things are going to get REALLY expensive.

ljbab728
11-29-2012, 09:43 PM
I also think its worth repeating what I an a few other posters have already said. The DOJ is going to shut down this jail if dramatic improvements are not made. Then things are going to get REALLY expensive.

That's the biggest point that many are ignoring. I would hold my nose and vote yes for this because voting no will cost more in the long run.

Midtowner
11-30-2012, 07:09 AM
They don't know where it'll be and what it'll look like, but they know it'll cost .35 billion dollars?

I know we all voted for a very ambiguous MAPS program, but I trust our city leaders a LOT more than our county budget board. Until they tell us where it'll be and what sort of an improvement it'll be, it's a no for me.

Spartan
11-30-2012, 10:45 AM
I can't believe that I'm about to defend the sheriff's department, but there's a lot they do that you are obviously unaware of.

They are not just the de facto police department for the unincorporated portions of the county (which btw there's quite a bit of unannexed land in this county). They are the jurisdiction over the county jail, which all inmates who are awaiting trial, no matter what city they are from, are held. In fact I believe the plurality of their employees just work at the jail. They provide a lot of assistance to the various PD's across the county. Only OKC and (maybe) Edmond are big enough to have a full service PD. Other little small towns around here (Bethany, Warr Acres, Forest Park, etc.) lean heavily on the sheriff's office for things like bomb squad, traffic control, swat team, K-9, etc. They have to chase down the ridiculous number of people in this county who have warrants. The list goes on and on....

I have never heard anything confirming your allegations, although it was reported in the news that a prisoner did paint some sign posts that were eventually used to make campaign signs. Not illegal, but maybe a bit unethical. The Sorrels campaign and a few wingnut bloggers around the state trying their best tot get another dang dirty Democrat out of office tried to make it into something it wasn't. Let's be clear that this came out in the summer. the voters had plenty of time to weight it and Sorrels still got bounced 65%-35%.

Trust me I have no dog in this fight. There are plenty of good-ole boy sheriffs in this state; maybe Whetsel is one of them and he just hides it really well. I think it is important that people know the truth about the whole matter though and not just heresy and internet innuendo.

I also think its worth repeating what I an a few other posters have already said. The DOJ is going to shut down this jail if dramatic improvements are not made. Then things are going to get REALLY expensive.

That's nice and all but at the end of the day what the County Sheriffs really do is write traffic tickets and duplicate services.

Also, how is Whetsel hiding his good ole boy tendencies? Really well??? Okay....

ljbab728
11-30-2012, 10:49 AM
They don't know where it'll be and what it'll look like, but they know it'll cost .35 billion dollars?

I know we all voted for a very ambiguous MAPS program, but I trust our city leaders a LOT more than our county budget board. Until they tell us where it'll be and what sort of an improvement it'll be, it's a no for me.

Given this quote from the original article why do you think we won't have that information?


Stacey Trumbo, the county engineer, said planning for the new adult-juvenile complex is nearing completion and that the county's legal team is now preparing a ballot. The county contracted with a Georgia consulting company in March to design the jail, identify a location and to develop a financing package to be presented to voters.

LandRunOkie
11-30-2012, 10:53 AM
Wasn't there a recent piece about him declaring bankruptcy in the past? How does a sheriff get elected as a financial fix-it man after having declared bankruptcy?

Also why are we afraid of the Department of Justice getting involved? Are you really suggesting they would force us to build a jail that costs MORE than $350 million? At least if they get involved, there is a chance it will last more than the 21 years this one has lasted. Think I'll be voting no!

Larry OKC
11-30-2012, 11:23 AM
Renovate vs. New: I don't have the earlier articles handy (we were supposed to have voted on this back when we voted for MAPS 3). But the cost was about the same. The estimates then IIRC were in the $400 million plus range. The County balked at that and their solution was to cut beds (but that was one of the DOJ problems, over crowding). The article says that the new one will have 2,800 beds, does anyone know if that is more or less than the current jail capacity?

As far as location, the same article went on to say that it won't be known until AFTER the vote (like a lot of projects, they work out the pesky details after they have conned enough voters).

If we can get the bond issue authorized then we'll go out and look at sites, a 60- to 80-acre site

As far as the Feds are concerned....we have the option of correcting it ourselves with this sales tax or they will come in and do it for us and pass the tab along to the county which will require an automatic increase in property taxes.

I agree that this is one of those things that I will probably vote for but hold my nose the entire time. Why the ones that were responsible for the current situation were never held liable, is beyond me. They should be in the County Jail.

LandRunOkie
11-30-2012, 11:33 AM
They could just hold a marijuana possession "jubilee" and let them walk. That would reduce operational expenses and reduce overcrowding. But that would probably make too much financial sense.

Larry OKC
11-30-2012, 02:31 PM
Just make everything legal and we can shut down all the jails. get rid of the cops, lawyers, judges etc. The skys the limit on how much could be saved!

Dubya61
11-30-2012, 02:40 PM
Just make everything legal and we can shut down all the jails. get rid of the cops, lawyers, judges etc. The skys the limit on how much could be saved!

I understand what you're saying. I interpret it as this (and please correct me if you think I'm wrong): It's silly to change the definition of what's right and wrong based on needing to clear out the jails.
--- and that was my thought process about most of that discussion, but I have a different opinion, lately. What makes the use of marijuana wrong? Is there something that makes the use of alcohol right that (in the same situation) is wrong with marijuana? Is there something that makes the use of cigarettes right that (in the same situation) is wrong with marijuana. Take the impaired or distracted driving out of the mix and what is wrong with marijuana used in moderation?


eta: I guess I think that we need to take a look at why we decided the moderate use of marijuana was wrong in the first place.

LandRunOkie
11-30-2012, 02:58 PM
I actually have a ton of respect for cops. There is one in my family who is also favors decriminalization. It is a policy issue not an attempt to vilify the justice system. I actually took a field trip to the Oklahoma county jail in the eighth grade. We went to the fourth floor and heard from a couple of the prisoners. Most scared I have ever been. It isn't a place we should be sending anybody that doesn't pose a threat to other people!

BoulderSooner
11-30-2012, 03:15 PM
Should build new far away from down town. Next to the dump at 240 would be a good spot. With a holding area down town. Same as Norman did.

Dubya61
11-30-2012, 03:18 PM
Hey! How about a new use for Crossroads Mall?

Midtowner
11-30-2012, 03:25 PM
Should build new far away from down town. Next to the dump at 240 would be a good spot. With a holding area down town. Same as Norman did.

There's a lot of empty land south of the river which is much closer. It needs to be close to downtown for security reasons and because attorneys need access to their clients. It makes a big difference to me that I can pop over to the jail in 5 minutes to meet with a client or potential client and it's generally good policy that inmates and their attorneys are able to have frequent contact.

Spartan
11-30-2012, 09:00 PM
I'm sorry, but how is it not worth at least an extra $100 million premium on the same egregious figures just to NOT give that much dough to the County???

ljbab728
11-30-2012, 09:34 PM
The article says that the new one will have 2,800 beds, does anyone know if that is more or less than the current jail capacity?


The current rated capacity is 2,890.

LandRunOkie
12-01-2012, 09:57 AM
I would say there is about a 50/50 chance Obama legalizes marijuana possession by 2016. He is certainly the biggest marijuana enthusiast we've ever had in the White House. (http://www.buzzfeed.com/gavon/a-users-guide-to-smoking-pot-with-barack-obama) There is very little chance this jail will get built by then. If federal marijuana policy relaxes before the jail gets built, it will render the jail unnecessarily big and expensive. So it would be prudent to delay funding for this project as long as possible. It may turn out that the feds change their own policy so that overcrowding is no longer an issue.

kevinpate
12-01-2012, 12:06 PM
a 50/50 chance? More like a <1% chance. It's not an issue the current president is likely to want as his legacy. Ditto most dems whose districts are somewhat less friendly balance wise than they used to be. Certainly not an issue the R's are gonna champion, less they find themselves primaried out of their seats by the far right.

Not saying it ought to be this way or not, but politicos by and large want to remain politicos ... way more than they give a fig about making taking a toke free and clear legally.

king183
12-01-2012, 01:10 PM
I would say there is about a 50/50 chance Obama legalizes marijuana possession by 2016. He is certainly the biggest marijuana enthusiast we've ever had in the White House. (http://www.buzzfeed.com/gavon/a-users-guide-to-smoking-pot-with-barack-obama) There is very little chance this jail will get built by then. If federal marijuana policy relaxes before the jail gets built, it will render the jail unnecessarily big and expensive. So it would be prudent to delay funding for this project as long as possible. It may turn out that the feds change their own policy so that overcrowding is no longer an issue.

Since Obama can't legalize marijuana, I'll say the chances are 0%. Further, his administration (http://theweek.com/article/index/227689/why-obama-got-tough-on-medical-marijuana-3-theories)has been one of the most aggressive enforcers (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/obamas-war-on-pot-20120216) of anti-marijuana laws and has increased federal raids in California.

It's going to require legislation, which will require Congress to act. Not a chance that happens until more states legalize it and make it politically feasible for Congress to legalize it.

ljbab728
12-01-2012, 09:59 PM
Also there is 0% chance the county will make any decisions about a new jail based on the possibility that marijuana might be legalized some day.

LandRunOkie
12-02-2012, 09:49 AM
I'm sorry, but how is it not worth at least an extra $100 million premium on the same egregious figures just to NOT give that much dough to the County???
It would be worth it in my opinion to let the feds design and build it. They are the ones responsible for evaluating it. If they build it, they may evaluate it more favorably in the future.

a 50/50 chance? More like a <1% chance.
Hear me now, believe me later, to borrow from Mike Turpen. No point in arguing about a distant prediction in the present.

Since Obama can't legalize marijuana, I'll say the chances are 0%. Further, his administration (http://theweek.com/article/index/227689/why-obama-got-tough-on-medical-marijuana-3-theories)has been one of the most aggressive enforcers (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/obamas-war-on-pot-20120216) of anti-marijuana laws and has increased federal raids in California.

The president appoints the head of the DEA. The head of the DEA is responsible for scheduling banned substances. Moving marijuana from schedule I to a lower priority would be a de facto legalization. For Obama, it is just a phone call away.

Also there is 0% chance the county will make any decisions about a new jail based on the possibility that marijuana might be legalized some day.
Their flawed decision making process in the past is one reason I will be voting no. The DOJ should build it, regardless of how you feel about pot.

ljbab728
12-02-2012, 10:31 PM
It would be worth it in my opinion to let the feds design and build it. They are the ones responsible for evaluating it. If they build it, they may evaluate it more favorably in the future.

Hear me now, believe me later, to borrow from Mike Turpen. No point in arguing about a distant prediction in the present.

The president appoints the head of the DEA. The head of the DEA is responsible for scheduling banned substances. Moving marijuana from schedule I to a lower priority would be a de facto legalization. For Obama, it is just a phone call away.

Their flawed decision making process in the past is one reason I will be voting no. The DOJ should build it, regardless of how you feel about pot.

You're welcome to pay my part of the extra taxes that will be needed then.

bombermwc
12-04-2012, 07:04 AM
He was using inmates to build his reelection signs. There was a southside business he blackmailed into putting up election signs for himself. He RAN initially on a platform to FIX the jail and it has only gotten worse, and now he wants a MAPS-type amount of funding to do it when he already spends a similar budget on military grade stuff that the cities don't even have.

Also we do not need a County police department. There are virtually no unincorporated areas left in Oklahoma County, and something could be worked out for the few areas that remain. It is an extremely expensive duplication of government services of the highest form. Also, every time they write a ticket for anything, that's revenue that the Cities comprising Oklahoma County LOSE out on.

If you ask me it's not just time we have a new sheriff in this here town, but time we get rid of the department altogether.

For once, Spartan and I are in total agreement...shock!

Although Whetsel wasn't in office when the jail was built was he? I thought it was already there when he started. But I will say, regardless of who it is, i vote for whomever is running against him...every time.

All the toys he buys really do annoy me too. Yes he gets a grant for them, but then they have to be maintained by general funds so they still cost money. Not to mention the fact that we dont need him in ANY incorporated areas. Every time i see a Sherrif's patrol car in a city area and not out in a rural area, i get annoyed....and I'm pretty sure the municipal officers feel the same way. Total lack of thought on how to spend money.

I do want a new jail...one that's built properly. I'm tired of this coming up over and over. And we're going to be charged fines from the government if we can't get things corrected....I believe we're already being charged some for over-crowding and code issues.

LandRunOkie
12-04-2012, 07:28 AM
If you're worried about taxes, the US incarcerates over 7 times the rate Europe does (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate). This costs taxpayers far more than the feds building the Oklahoma county jail. In fact more people are arrested in the US for marijuana possession than all violent crimes combined. Incarceration is a destructive act and it should be reserved for violent criminals not pot smokers.

Midtowner
12-04-2012, 12:17 PM
For once, Spartan and I are in total agreement...shock!

Although Whetsel wasn't in office when the jail was built was he? I thought it was already there when he started. But I will say, regardless of who it is, i vote for whomever is running against him...every time.

That's pretty dangerous considering his opponent last go-round was a real wackadoo. One of those Fairview Baptist tea party types. He talked a bit about using his spot on the budget board to fight UN Agenda 21. He even challenged the election when his opponent got more than twice the votes he did. Did he think a recount was really going to change anything? Seriously goofy.


All the toys he buys really do annoy me too. Yes he gets a grant for them, but then they have to be maintained by general funds so they still cost money. Not to mention the fact that we dont need him in ANY incorporated areas. Every time i see a Sherrif's patrol car in a city area and not out in a rural area, i get annoyed....and I'm pretty sure the municipal officers feel the same way. Total lack of thought on how to spend money.

Considering how poorly funded OKCPD is and how spread out they are (go look at a map of OKC sometime, it's absolutely huge), the more the merrier.


I do want a new jail...one that's built properly. I'm tired of this coming up over and over. And we're going to be charged fines from the government if we can't get things corrected....I believe we're already being charged some for over-crowding and code issues.

I'm with you. We need to get a new jail done and swallow the bitter pill. I'm just hoping they reconsider moving the jail farther away from the courthouse.

Larry OKC
12-04-2012, 08:01 PM
The current rated capacity is 2,890.

Thanks for the info...so to solve the overcrowding problem, they are going to have less capacity. Brilliant!

bombermwc
12-05-2012, 06:50 AM
That's pretty dangerous considering his opponent last go-round was a real wackadoo. One of those Fairview Baptist tea party types. He talked a bit about using his spot on the budget board to fight UN Agenda 21. He even challenged the election when his opponent got more than twice the votes he did. Did he think a recount was really going to change anything? Seriously goofy.


Agreed, and so i probably should have done more research before i voted this time....although i don't know that it matters. It's like Sandy Garret, until he decides to retire, no one has a shot.

As for the toys, the problem is, most of them are useless and never get used. Go to MWC 29th and Midwest Blvd. They have all their toys parked there at the old Nissan car dealership they purchased in the Tinker Bond thing. To top it all off, do you think they let the municipalities use the equipment for free? I bet not. Which is a real screwjob since the citizens of that city paid for it ithrough the bond issue anyway. The patrol areas are the biggest issue for me though. A buddy from high school was an officer in the department at one time but has since moved to homeland security. It was always interesting to hear his perspective on things....not exactlly highlight the good points of Whetsell either.

Plutonic Panda
01-03-2013, 01:35 PM
New Oklahoma County jail ballot proposal is delayed | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/new-oklahoma-county-jail-ballot-proposal-is-delayed/article/3742558)

OKCisOK4me
01-03-2013, 01:49 PM
Location is a big key to me. If you can't give me a location before a vote then you're not getting my vote. Your petty criminals can rot in your rotting jail that you currently keep them in.

LandRunOkie
01-03-2013, 02:14 PM
They pushed back the vote because they fear it will be close. The less important the ballot, the less voters. In Oklahoma that means more conservative.

Larry OKC
01-03-2013, 02:26 PM
LandRunOkie: I agree, for all the talk the powers-that-be spew about wanting high voter turnout, they do just about everything they can to insure lower turnout (local single issue elections often result in some of the lowest turnouts, not uncommon to be under 10% registered voter turnout). What they really mean is they want high voter turn out from their supporters. That said, this quote from the "delay" link was interesting, since the opposite is usually the case...

“I don't want to insinuate we want an election entirely to ourselves, necessarily, but the school board and city council elections being the same time frame, we would perhaps hurt their turnout or maybe they would hurt our turnout,” he said. “I don't think the issues would meld very well.”

Also either the article was wrong or he was wrong when in the article he mentioned the annual school board elections being in March...the School Board Elections are mid-February (February 12, 2013).

Vaughn said he agreed to put off the jail initiative for later this year because of municipal and school board elections already scheduled for March.

kevinpate
01-03-2013, 02:43 PM
Not my county, but I understand their perspective. Lots of folks aren't happy with the school system. Lots more folks than probably exist ought to be at least a tad unhappy with the current council and city staffer handling of M3 and the blvd as well. Not really the ideal anticipated base to be asking 'hey, trust us with a 10 year half-penny tax ... what could possibly go south on the deal".

Yeah, I'd want to wait too.

Cocaine
01-05-2013, 12:24 AM
Man I was looking forward to voting NO against this.

ljbab728
01-05-2013, 12:39 AM
Man I was looking forward to voting NO against this.

Were you also looking forward to paying higher taxes when the feds take it over and send us the bill?

OKCisOK4me
01-05-2013, 08:30 AM
Were you also looking forward to paying higher taxes when the feds take it over and send us the bill?

Id rather have the whole nation pay for it rather than an only Oklahoma County tax...

ljbab728
01-05-2013, 07:41 PM
Id rather have the whole nation pay for it rather than an only Oklahoma County tax...

I don't know if you're joking. Surely you know that if the feds take it over we still get the bill.

kevinpate
01-05-2013, 08:31 PM
Were you also looking forward to paying higher taxes when the feds take it over and send us the bill?

Not to quibble, but doesn't each option rely on a tax increase?

ljbab728
01-05-2013, 10:40 PM
Not to quibble, but doesn't each option rely on a tax increase?

Not quibling at all. In my last post I responding to someone who perhaps thought that if the feds took over the cost would be shared around the country instead of just being on us. My previous post was in response to someone who was looking forward to voting no, as if that would accomplish something other than feeling good.

Larry OKC
01-07-2013, 03:49 PM
Reportedly, if the Feds take it over, the cost will NOT be shared on a national level but the costs will be passed on to Oklahoma County property owners thru mandatory property tax increases. Also if you think the cost will only be on the property owners, most will pass their increased costs on to renters etc. its going to cost us more one way or the other (sales tax, property tax, bond issue), just a matter if it is our choice or forced upon us.

http://www.news9.com/global/story.asp?s=11664716

The Department of Justice threatened a takeover of the Oklahoma County Jail if the necessary changes aren't made in a timely fashion. That could end up costing county residents in the short term. "It would be huge. I think huge would be the best word I could use. You're going to see an incredible change on your ad valorem tax bill if you live in Oklahoma County," said Forrest "Butch" Freeman, Oklahoma County Treasurer. The cost of a new facility, estimated to be about $400 million, would have to be paid back within 3 years if the feds took over the project.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-county-could-seek-vote-on-jail-sales-tax/article/3424600?custom_click=headlines_widget

If the federal government forced the county to fix the problems, the money for the work would be put on the county property tax rolls to be paid in full within three years. The likely size of a federal judgment in such a scenario would raise the average homeowner’s property tax bill substantially, Treasurer Butch Freeman said. "Huge is the best word I could use,” Freeman said. "You are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars paid out over only three years.”


With yet another delay on an election for the Jail and the reasoning for NOT consolidating with another election, this was interesting (from the same article)

With federal action looming, Oklahoma County commissioners Friday began a series of weekly meetings to come up with a ballot proposal to fix the Oklahoma County jail.
...
Commissioners plan to continue discussing the issue weekly until they can agree on all the details of an election.
Commissioners also discussed a possible timeline for putting the issue to voters. District 3 Commissioner Ray Vaughn said he would like to pass a resolution by March so that a vote could be held May 11.
Commissioners also discussed setting the vote later to coincide with primary elections, which would save the voters the cost of a special election.
...
"I certainly hope people don’t think we are proposing this because we want to,” Vaughn said.
"The gun is kind of to our head, and we don’t have a lot of time.”
Interesting to note that this article is 3 years old...3 years of our County Commissioners kicking the problem down the road...time for them all to be replaced with people that can get the job done.

Willa Johnson
Commissioner District 1
320 Robert S. Kerr, Suite 202
Oklahoma City, 73102
405.713.1501
wjohnson@oklahomacounty.org

Brian Maughan
Commissioner District 2
320 Robert S Kerr Room #101
Oklahoma City OK 73102
405-713-1502
405-824-3120 (cell...on his county web site page)
brian@oklahomacounty.org

Ray Vaughn
Commissioner District 3
320 Robert S. Kerr, Suite 621
Oklahoma City, OK 73102
(405) 713-150
rvaughn@oklahomacounty.org

LandRunOkie
01-07-2013, 08:17 PM
No there is a third option. The city could change its enforcement of marijuana possession laws and thereby reduce its jail population. More people are arrested for marijuana possession than for all violent crimes combined in the US. But regardless of drug policy, a new jail is not a necessity. The main reason given for the jail deficiency is overcrowding, yet the proposed jail is going to actually have a few less beds.

Cocaine
01-07-2013, 11:09 PM
Well my issue is if a new county jail is approved will this new jail be neglected like the old jail. The old jail is only 22 years old why does is it need to be replaced so fast because it's still a new building. Now in 20 years then an argument can be made about replacing the county jail. Now as for marijuana laws it would be great if the city/county would loosen up a little and decriminalize small amounts of marijuana. That would be the cheapest, easiest, and a common sense solution but I don't see that happening but that is something I'd love to see on a ballot though.

kevinpate
01-08-2013, 09:48 AM
I could be in error, but I'd wager an ice cream shake less than 5% of the beds in the county jail this morning were occupied by folks who were being bunked solely due to waiting on court proceedings for a possession of mj charge or serving time solely on an mj possession charge. Feel free to prove me wrong, as I concede it's simply an educated guess on my part.