Looks like The Lost Ogle is not on the best of terms with Brian Bates. After reading the story I have to agree with TLO that it was not a very nice thing to do to the business mentioned having just opened and all. Fun Fact: The Video Vigilante is also a local amateur restaurant reviewer | The Lost Ogle (http://www.thelostogle.com/2012/11/13/fun-fact-the-video-vigilante-is-also-a-local-amateur-restaurant-reviewer/)

Who is Scott Adams?

A local attorney.

A local attorney.

Famous or infamous?

dang. and here i thought Scott Adams was the genius behind The Dilbert Zone.....

dang. and here i thought Scott Adams was the genius behind The Dilbert Zone.....

I wish it could be Douglas Adams. Unfortunately, he left us.

well . . . maybe the BBQ at the end of the universe is better . . .

(btw: i think that BrianB's informal restaurant reviews in THIS venue seem to be fair and balanced. I guess the controversy at the moment might be an example of what happens when you hang around with lawyers who lunch.....)

Reaching out to a local comedy page because you got a bad review on urban spoon doesn't make the place look terribly professional. Every restaurant gets bad reviews, the good ones prove them wrong with their food, not throw tantrums against them.

Reaching out to a local comedy page because you got a bad review on urban spoon doesn't make the place look terribly professional. Every restaurant gets bad reviews, the good ones prove them wrong with their food, not throw tantrums against them.

This exactly.

Reaching out to a local comedy page because you got a bad review on urban spoon doesn't make the place look terribly professional. Every restaurant gets bad reviews, the good ones prove them wrong with their food, not throw tantrums against them.

10-4. And not only that . . . I think you are correct in your assessment of fairness.
The only reason there is an "issue" here is because of the company of lawyers . . .
Why . . . I remember dining at a little place in the vicinity of Haiti or The Dominican Republic . . . Maybe Jamaica? . . . There was a semi-morose dude to my right said his name was Ernie . . . and another bearded guy (with a bevy of babes} to my left--drinking Dos Equis, btw, not that it matters--when this other fellow, nicely dressed, with the most boring name in the world, James B....whatever . . . orders a martini with some sort of goofy instructions to the waitress--regarding the importance of shaken vs. stirred . . . and that's when the bevy of lawyers on vacation arrived.

Turns out they were all a bunch of Conchshuckers . . .
(right about then, Kurt Vonnegut turned to me and said . . . "and so it goes . . . so, have you heard of Ice-9?" =)

I wish it could be Douglas Adams. Unfortunately, he left us.

Douglas Adams didn't write Dilbert. That is a man named Scott Adams who is, presumably, not at all related to the apparent local attorney. I thought the article was also referring to the creator of Dilbert. Alas :)

Anyway, TLO's bit seemed more to me like they were just taking a shot at Brian Bates because they don't approve of his "video vigilantism," which they bring up often, rather than really defending this restaurant. Based off of the restaurateur's letter, I'd imagine TLO would be making fun of their poor grammar and spelling if the reviewer were anyone other than Brian Bates or someone else TLO has a vendetta against.

This is just par-for-the-course for The Lost Ogle. Their hypocrisy is laughable. Their criticisms of me are pretty funny considering THEY only exist to exploit, highlight, profit off of (anonymously no less) making fun of others. There is no 'other' side of TLO - the only awareness they spread is their own ignorance. But, I do get a pump in traffic when they go on their rants, so, whatever.

Of course, the best part is UrbanSpoon removed my review from Blu's page because of their whining (even though as you can read it was an honest review - which makes UrbanSpoon's trustworthiness suspect) - but better yet, TLO has reprinted it. So, in effect they just made sure my opinion not only stays on the Web but hits a whole other audience.

I actually don't have an issue with TLO. You're not going to find a bigger supporter of free speech than me. I just wish they'd put more effort into some of their articles. For the most part they're pretty weak on content and big on just an overgrown bully, college type humor.

As for this specific article - just more of the same.

The letter from Kathy is more evidence these people are in no position to own/operate a successful restaurant. I also highly doubt she was there on our visit as there was only one female worker that day and she was no owner.

The only reason they even know that one was Scott Adams is because he left a review also AND one of the owners/operators had an incident with Mr. Adams and the person was arrested (the police report and more will make a resurgence soon).

As for 'they were pretty rude' - that is 100% false. We eat as a group on a regular basis and the profile of the men is professional at all times (well known lawyers, a couple of executives and a member of law enforcement and myself). In fact, we were overly nice. When they completely forgot one person's order and they had to leave we simply asked if it could be made togo. We never got up to complain and never really said much of anything. So much was so wrong most at the table actually felt bad for the owners/operators because there were at least three other tables making their complaints known.

How can TLO or a restaurant complain about bad reviews when they signed up for a review site such as UrbanSpoon? Love how TLO claims you shouldn't leave any bad (aka, honest) reviews for a new restaurant the first few weeks. That's what a review site is for. If they don't want reviews, then don't sign up for review sites. The first thing many people do when they hear about a new restaurant is check for...... wait for it........ REVIEWS.

I love how they (Blu's) point out they were eventually blocked from UrbanSpoon. That usually only happens when your IP address is associated with multiple repeat reviews using multiple created accounts.

Then they claim "The bigger problem is Brian Bate’s blog that is linked from the urban Spoon’s home page." What blog? I don't have a food blog. I'm assuming they are confusing the BBQ blog with something I own (which I'd take as a compliment as its a really good blog).

They go on to say, "Today I searched Blu’s BBQ only to find multiple blogs all over the web. They’re all coming from Brian and his (wife.?)" WTH? What blogs? Where? Also, FYI, my wife wasn't with us when we visited, has never been there and has never given any opinion of the place. Just more lies.

I wonder how often TLO attacks other people who leave a negative review of a new restaurant? O'yeah, they don't.

Additionally, anyone who follows any of my reviews knows that I know the difference between 'opening pains' and simply a badly run establishment. Also, I'm one to have no problem giving a place a second chance and even updating my review. Its happened several times.

Looks like The Lost Ogle is not on the best of terms with Brian Bates. After reading the story I have to agree with TLO that it was not a very nice thing to do to the business mentioned having just opened and all. Fun Fact: The Video Vigilante is also a local amateur restaurant reviewer | The Lost Ogle (http://www.thelostogle.com/2012/11/13/fun-fact-the-video-vigilante-is-also-a-local-amateur-restaurant-reviewer/)

I'd love to hear your solution then...... So, are you saying when a new restaurant willingly signs up for a review site that nobody should actually post a honest review if its negative? Only the positive reviews should be published? Exactly how does that meet a need of the dining public?

Review sites are not about 'being nice.' They about expressing your honest opinion. I didn't attack them personally (which they have done to me).

For a really good read go check out the comments left by this "Kathy" person's "son" on Brian's blog.... No wait.... That's my blog... At least it was my blog.

Who knows who is writing it this week since according to the Chyzyk's and this "Kathy" person it's all one big conspiracy to put them out of business.....

Of course from my personal experience it will be their brisket that does them in.

Blu's BBQ & Burgers (http://okbbqea.blogspot.com/2012/10/big-red-on-tap-at-blus-bar-b-q-burgers.html)

...
Of course, the best part is UrbanSpoon removed my review from Blu's page because of their whining (even though as you can read it was an honest review - which makes UrbanSpoon's trustworthiness suspect) - but better yet, TLO has reprinted it. So, in effect they just made sure my opinion not only stays on the Web but hits a whole other audience.
...

aka the law of unintended consequences.

This all reminds me of the Divine Swim debacle, wherein some less than stellar reviews were posted and the owner/manager (or someone else directly involved in the restaurant) got super defensive and went ballistic. Not long after, they closed.


If you're going to operate a business -- especially a restaurant -- in the information age, you'd better be ready to handle criticism and better yet, use it to your advantage.

Tripadvisor.com has a good system where management can respond directly to any comments, good or bad. It impresses me when someone offers a criticism and I see management respond along the lines of, "Thank you for your business and feedback. We apologize for X, have done X to correct the problem and you can contact me directly for a nice discount next time you visit." Shows they are listening and care about the customer experience, even if they have some bad comments.

This all reminds me of the Divine Swim debacle, wherein some less than stellar reviews were posted and the owner/manager (or someone else directly involved in the restaurant) got super defensive and went ballistic. Not long after, they closed.


If you're going to operate a business -- especially a restaurant -- in the information age, you'd better be ready to handle criticism and better yet, use it to your advantage.

Tripadvisor.com has a good system where management can respond directly to any comments, good or bad. It impresses me when someone offers a criticism and I see management respond along the lines of, "Thank you for your business and feedback. We apologize for X, have done X to correct the problem and you can contact me directly for a nice discount next time you visit." Shows they are listening and care about the customer experience, even if they have some bad comments.

Exactly. I gave less than stellar review once of an experience with Iron Star - Tuck replied personally and handled it professionally and made it right. To this day I recommend Iron Star (and all Good Egg restaurants) with 100% confidence. At least two other establishments I negatively reviewed reached out and made it right (Cafe Nova and Upper Crust). I also was not so positive about Waffle Champion - but now my wife and I visit them regularly on the weekends.

There is a huge difference between owning a restaurant and maintaining a longterm business model for your restaurant and a positive relationship with the public.

If you realize that a restaurant puts out hundreds of meals a day, every day and is reliant on low-paid staff who would probably all rather be doing something else for a living... Then you can understand why even the best operations have bad moments.

It's what they do about them that really matters. Not only the short-term but if the trends is generally upward.

Everybody understands that new non-chain restaurants take time to hit their stride but many never even get there because they handle some initial bad experiences badly or not at all.

This all reminds me of the Divine Swim debacle, wherein some less than stellar reviews were posted and the owner/manager (or someone else directly involved in the restaurant) got super defensive and went ballistic. Not long after, they closed.

Not sure that is what closed Divine Swine. Josh Valentine is on this seasons Top Chef so he was out of town for taping for several months and took a job in Dallas after taping wrapped up..

Exactly. I gave less than stellar review once of an experience with Iron Star - Tuck replied personally and handled it professionally and made it right. To this day I recommend Iron Star (and all Good Egg restaurants) with 100% confidence. At least two other establishments I negatively reviewed reached out and made it right (Cafe Nova and Upper Crust). I also was not so positive about Waffle Champion - but now my wife and I visit them regularly on the weekends.

There is a huge difference between owning a restaurant and maintaining a longterm business model for your restaurant and a positive relationship with the public.

I had the same experience with Van's Pig Stand in Moore. They shorted me 5oz of meat at the drive-thru and the manager handled it very well by commenting apologetically both on Urbanspoon and by e-mail..... Now on the down side I'm still seeing people complain about this same issue at the drive-thru but at least the manager handles it diplomatically even if they can't seem to get the problem fixed.

What I really find funny is that this "Kathy" person didn't take me to task on my negative review of the chopped sawdust...errr... brisket they served me that day. Rather she chose to take me to task because I said there could be some parking issues.

Not sure that is what closed Divine Swine. Josh Valentine is on this seasons Top Chef so he was out of town for taping for several months and took a job in Dallas after taping wrapped up..

I think many liked the food, but I don't think they knew anything about running a restaurant and didn't seem very interested in learning.

Cooking and running a business are two very different skills that few people master. The smart ones hire people or use consultants that offset their weaknesses.

... you can understand why even the best operations have bad moments.

It's what they do about them that really matters. Not only the short-term but if the trends is generally upward.
...

That is so true, and applies to most business entities. Caring and service still count, for a lot. Sincerity even more so.
The only two things worse than a bad experience are:
(a) when the person attempting to resolve the issue is reciting back to you a one size fits all script, whether memorized or being read off a screen.
(b) doesn't care where they fell short and makes it clear it doesn't matter to them.

Honestly not sure which one is more frustrating to me, but (a) probably edges out (b) in my book.

I think many liked the food, but I don't think they knew anything about running a restaurant and didn't seem very interested in learning.

Cooking and running a business are two very different skills that few people master. (snip).

Hence the reason Gordon Ramsay and shows like "Kitchen Nightmares" have an unending supply of nearly dead restaurants to ridicule and/or rescue from the brink of failure. The common theme among the failing owners is either the inability to cook, the inability to run a business, or both, coupled with an unwillingness to learn either.

Just shows how miserably difficult the restaurant is, even for someone who *does* understand what to do. Even the best-run restaurant will get a disgruntled customer who goes ballistic sometimes. Maybe we need a critique site for critics, where folks can rate the raters to give them "street cred." :)

As an aside, I was reading through some reviews of some Branson-area establishments a few weeks ago based on the memories of my family's trip up there in 2010, and also came across some reviews I had written - only to find the verbatim review posted under another name on a different site. Send a pleasant but terse message to the site owners and it was gone shortly therafter :)

Vast is receiving mixed reviews, and its not for lack of capital and effort. Running a restaurant well isn't an easy thing to do.

Williams & Associates has a taken on a MASSIVE amount in just the last year or so, as the restaurant and bar piece of Vast is only about 1/8th of the two full floors used for events and catering.

This, on top of all the Colcord space (much of it new), Flint and I'm sure playing a part in the selection of operators for Nebu and Aviano.

And, all of this came together and opened within a few months.


I'm sure with time things will only get better.

I like BBates' review and seek them out. I don't care about what is primary vocation is. I wish he had time to dedicate to more and a thread or directory could be opened up for them, in particular. And yeah, Brian, I like TLO but find them to be a bit sophomoric -- I guess that's part of their "charm".

Off topic, but my thread wish list (even though I'm just a participating member here) are for BBates reviews (sorry OKBBQEA -- I can already find yours on Brian's, err, your blog), RadMod's recipes and Will Hider's photos.

Eh the lost ogle is hit or miss. I like them on facebook so I saw that article yesterday. I thought it reflected very poorly on the restaurant owner and holy smokes I had no idea the subject of the article is an OKCtalk contributor. You learn something new everyday.

Bottom line, that was a very weak offering by the TLO...simply pointless.

While I do like brians reviews and have referenced them in the past (thank you for spending the money and checking out new places), i did remember seeing his review of this place and finding it a touch harsh for such a new place - but i still have the divine swine thing in my head and we all saw how that thing turned out.

Its one thing rail on each other on the internet over politics or personal choices, but with restaurants reviews its easy to become too depersonalized about it when its a neighbors (figuratively speaking) baby. In most cases they've sunk everything they have into it and gone into massive amounts of debt and time to try to make it work and lets be honest, those urban spoons greatly influence someones perspective when it comes to trying a new / no name place.

yeah yeah, free speech. but just remember that (in the early months after opening - after that they are on their own) its quite literally that persons entire lively hood on the line. everyone and their mom always complains about okc not having enough non chain restaurants and wanting some more local places, well when you look at the odds of surviving and the capital that goes into it and realize that an off day + 1 harsh comment will probably turn off 30-50 would be customers - it would be overwhelming.

While I do like brians reviews and have referenced them in the past (thank you for spending the money and checking out new places), i did remember seeing his review of this place and finding it a touch harsh for such a new place - but i still have the divine swine thing in my head and we all saw how that thing turned out.

Its one thing rail on each other on the internet over politics or personal choices, but with restaurants reviews its easy to become too depersonalized about it when its a neighbors (figuratively speaking) baby. In most cases they've sunk everything they have into it and gone into massive amounts of debt and time to try to make it work and lets be honest, those urban spoons greatly influence someones perspective when it comes to trying a new / no name place.

yeah yeah, free speech. but just remember that (in the early months after opening - after that they are on their own) its quite literally that persons entire lively hood on the line. everyone and their mom always complains about okc not having enough non chain restaurants and wanting some more local places, well when you look at the odds of surviving and the capital that goes into it and realize that an off day + 1 harsh comment will probably turn off 30-50 would be customers - it would be overwhelming.

I totally agree it can be difficult on a restaurant in its opening days/weeks/months..... But, how does that equate to not posting an honest review of an establishment? Especially when the restaurant admittedly signed up for a review site. My review may have been harsh, but I didn't get personal and when the food is bad and they even forget to bring and entire order and do nothing to make it right - what do you expect?

Also, as 'Kathy' basically admitted, they loaded UrbanSpoon with so many fake positive reviews their IP address has been blocked. Not to mention, my review for Blue's appears on my UrbanSpoon profile but not on the restaurant's page - how is that fair?

I totally agree it can be difficult on a restaurant in its opening days/weeks/months..... But, how does that equate to not posting an honest review of an establishment? Especially when the restaurant admittedly signed up for a review site. My review may have been harsh, but I didn't get personal and when the food is bad and they even forget to bring and entire order and do nothing to make it right - what do you expect?

Also, as 'Kathy' basically admitted, they loaded UrbanSpoon with so many fake positive reviews their IP address has been blocked. Not to mention, my review for Blue's appears on my UrbanSpoon profile but not on the restaurant's page - how is that fair?

No i understand your perspective and thats the whole flip side to it all. The food and service sucked and you were honest and not forcing him to read between the lines. No telling him it was great when it wasnt - he needed to know asap to change his habits because the longer he continues to do marginal or poor service/food the more people he will silently drive away.

The whole other aspect of dealing with the fake reviews/ coverups is a whole different dynamic that im not even going to get into.

There is an old saying that goes something like... people are more willing to forgive the crime than the coverup.

For what its worth like i said in my first post i enjoy your reviews and have checked out a couple of places that you have recommended and havent been letdown. You are spending your time and money to take a chance on a big unknown so the rest of us dont have too and i think the vast majority of people appreciate it.

I didn't know my post would cause such a stink. I look at TLO once a month or so and happened to read that story. I think making a living from taping hookers doing whatever to johns and then selling access and selling the films for TV rights is weird. Creepy weird. My thought was just that it was too soon to leave such a critical review. The fact it was this creepy video vigilante trying to act like some normal citizen informing folks on their restaurant choices rubs me the wrong way. Wait, bad choice of words.

I didn't know my post would cause such a stink. I look at TLO once a month or so and happened to read that story. I think making a living from taping hookers doing whatever to johns and then selling access and selling the films for TV rights is weird. Creepy weird. My thought was just that it was too soon to leave such a critical review. The fact it was this creepy video vigilante trying to act like some normal citizen informing folks on their restaurant choices rubs me the wrong way. Wait, bad choice of words.
So...did you get caught or was it a near-miss? :tongue:

There are very few businesses you should venture in to if you have thin skin and can't take criticism. Restauranteur is near the top of the list. It doesn't matter if it was a few weeks or a few years, when you're open for business, you're open for business and have to deal with all the kinks and problems honestly and maturely. If you want to succeed, you have to recognize the problems and correct them. Hunting down negative reviews and whining to TLO just makes them look bad.

Besides, if you think that review is harsh, you should see the New York Times review of Guy Fieri's new restaurant.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/14/dining/reviews/restaurant-review-guys-american-kitchen-bar-in-times-square.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0#38;_r=1&

Besides, if you think that review is harsh, you should see the New York Times review of Guy Fieri's new restaurant.



OUCH! .... I'm not even sure I could write that scathing of a review if a place gave me food poisoning.

OUCH! .... I'm not even sure I could write that scathing of a review if a place gave me food poisoning.
I like Guy Fieri--or at least the show Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives--but in this case it looks like The Train to Flavortown took a wrong turn.
http://theunionshow.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/old_locomotive-train_crash1.jpg

Or perhaps this is all a setup leading to a spin-off (Like Petticoat Junction from Green Acres) involving that Restaurant Rescue Robert Dude with that Guy Fieri Dude.

I like Guy Fieri--or at least the show Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives--but in this case it looks like The Train to Flavortown took a wrong turn.

I've eaten at quite a few places featured on DD&D and I have yet to be disappointed by any of them.

I don't know what happened with this restaurant but from an outside looking in perspective. It almost appears that Guy let his name get attached to this project but may not have actually had a hand in it.

I think it's stupid to go off anyones review because everyone has different tastes and different views on what is good service, if people are rude or not, ect. Ive had people tell me they think WEst, ranch, iguana, boulevard, the shack, just to name a few are "disgusting" and "inedible". I mean, really? Inedible?

Places like urban spoon should get rid of the comments section and just have a 1-10 scale to vote on every aspect of the establishment.

This all reminds me of the Divine Swim debacle, wherein some less than stellar reviews were posted and the owner/manager (or someone else directly involved in the restaurant) got super defensive and went ballistic. Not long after, they closed.


If you're going to operate a business -- especially a restaurant -- in the information age, you'd better be ready to handle criticism and better yet, use it to your advantage.

Tripadvisor.com has a good system where management can respond directly to any comments, good or bad. It impresses me when someone offers a criticism and I see management respond along the lines of, "Thank you for your business and feedback. We apologize for X, have done X to correct the problem and you can contact me directly for a nice discount next time you visit." Shows they are listening and care about the customer experience, even if they have some bad comments.

It is eerily similar to the Divine Swine. Ironically, I've since learned that the chef of Divine Swine is a well known Dallas chef and is a current contestant on Top Chef. Funny how poor the restaurant was run here.

Williams & Associates has a taken on a MASSIVE amount in just the last year or so, as the restaurant and bar piece of Vast is only about 1/8th of the two full floors used for events and catering.

This, on top of all the Colcord space (much of it new), Flint and I'm sure playing a part in the selection of operators for Nebu and Aviano.

And, all of this came together and opened within a few months.


I'm sure with time things will only get better.

The problem with Williams restaurants other than Nebu has been quality of the food, not service. It's subpar quality for the concept/price.

Cooking and running a business are two very different skills that few people master.

This very true. It's not all about the food.

Places like urban spoon should get rid of the comments section and just have a 1-10 scale to vote on every aspect of the establishment.

I don't know about getting rid of the comments altogether but I like the idea of the 1-10 scale. I personally put more stock into the Like/Dislike percentage over the comments.

I also heed the advice I have posted on my blog and that is not to listen to what others say and go try it for yourself. I eat at a few places with low ratings on Urbanspoon that I have never had a bad meal at. Now on the other hand that's not saying that sometimes the low ratings and bad comments aren't very true. I've eaten at a few that deserved the low ratings.

I've seen a few people throw out that Blu's is the worst in OKC.... That to me seems a bit harsh. It's run of the mill, produced for the masses BBQ in my opinion. It certainly doesn't pass my "Would I drive 6 hours to eat that again?" test and in my honest opinion. Even before all this PR nightmare began for Blu's. I would pick George's Happy Hog or Leo's over Blu's.

Oh and one last thing... I keep seeing free cookies getting mentioned by people claiming to be owners at Blu's.... I did not get a free cookie! :mad:

From The Suburban Spork:
We are all aware of the fact that occasionally . . .
The Tramp Steamer to DiningDelightstowne hits an iceberg . . .
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120414200751/lego/images/6/6f/Titanic-sinking-underwater.jpg
The Cruiseship to CulinaryBlissburg capsizes . . .
http://www.komu.com/images/news/2012-01/Cruise_overturned.jpg
And The Ocean Liner to GoodEatsville runs aground.
[use your imagination]

Therefore, I wasn't sure what to expect when [ad]venturing into a trendy, new, restaurant with the name Fishy Fifties American Kitchen and Bar and Grill.
Imagine the warmth of the cockles of my heart when our server graced our table with identical plates like this:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Kc1OZaRPqCA/TQIfNQx4bpI/AAAAAAAAACw/xzSqm-glf-g/s1600/fishsticks.jpg
Even the mussels of my ascending colon rejoiced.

When I inquired of our polite and apolgetic, yet attentive and gruff, server the provinance of our feast, he was quick to return from the kitchen with this:
http://designsbymeg.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/mrs-pauls-fish-sticks.jpg
Sometimes restaurants manage to overload their ass.
http://merciarising.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/donkey-overturned-cart.jpg
This was not one of those times.

I give the Fishy Fities American Kitchen Bar and Grill three-and-a half starfish.
(the other half is in a to-go box for a science fair experiment).

While there may be some people with particularly draconian views on what constitutes good service, or particularly lax views, I don't think there's a huge gap for the average person. And, personally, I think words speak much more loudly than numbers on the internet, where it's easy to create multiple accounts (even masking your IP to avoid getting them removed if you know how) to flood a restaurant with a good ranking, which you're more likely to do if you have a vested interest.

When I decide if I want to eat at a place, I'll look at the aggregate, then I look at the longer reviews, because if you're flooding a place with reviews, you're probably not spending a lot of time writing them. If a lot of people have an issue, it's safe to assume that there is an issue, and if all those reviews are recent, then it's safe to assume that it's not something they fixed.

It'd be nice to take the "just try them yourself" approach to reviewing something because taste does vary widely, but even if I wanted to eat at someplace new every time I went out, I don't have the time or money to try every place out there. Obviosuly, if a reviewer doesn't match your tastes you shouldn't listen to them, but a lot of people saying something tend to have a point when it comes to service or food quality.

The problem with Williams restaurants other than Nebu has been quality of the food, not service. It's subpar quality for the concept/price.

Nebu is ran by a company out of California called Guggenheim. Dont think Williams and Assocaites has much if anything to do with it on a day to day basis.

When I go to UrbanSpoon my general rule is - if they don't have at least 80 votes then I pay the ones they do have very little attention. When reading the reviews..... if they are oddly all over the top good or bad, then I again discredit the lot of them. I also am suspect when a restaurant has great or bad reviews from someone who's never bothered to write reviews of any other establishment.

As for scoring.... I give any place with at least a 70% a chance.

This is, even if I bother to consult UrbanSpoon at all. Often I just want to try a new (or new to me place) regardless of the reviews.

When I go to UrbanSpoon my general rule is - if they don't have at least 80 votes then I pay the ones they do have very little attention. When reading the reviews..... if they are oddly all over the top good or bad, then I again discredit the lot of them. I also am suspect when a restaurant has great or bad reviews from someone who's never bothered to write reviews of any other establishment.

As for scoring.... I give any place with at least a 70% a chance.

This is, even if I bother to consult UrbanSpoon at all. Often I just want to try a new (or new to me place) regardless of the reviews.

Way to stay on topic.

It's very odd seeing this from my position. I work above Blu's and have watched the entire process unfold day by day. As a regular lurker/lazy poster, I knew of Mr. Bates Video Vigilante history, and was quite familiar with the transition between Markie's Deli & Blu's.

Trying to make sense of all this in my head, I've summarized the events as so:

1. People open a restaurant in an existing mixed-use building's restaurant site. Also knew they had some kinks getting started.
2. Brian posted his comments on Urban Spoon.
3. Owners of Blu's (Kathy) over-reacts to Urban Spoon comments.

Nothing out of the ordinary here. New restaurant owner is trying to defend her investment & work at the point at which she has seen the least returns for her efforts.

Why this story is actually so big? How the hell did the Lost Ogle pick up on this?

Way to stay on topic.

It's very odd seeing this from my position. I work above Blu's and have watched the entire process unfold day by day. As a regular lurker/lazy poster, I knew of Mr. Bates Video Vigilante history, and was quite familiar with the transition between Markie's Deli & Blu's.

Trying to make sense of all this in my head, I've summarized the events as so:

1. People open a restaurant in an existing mixed-use building's restaurant site. Also knew they had some kinks getting started.
2. Brian posted his comments on Urban Spoon.
3. Owners of Blu's (Kathy) over-reacts to Urban Spoon comments.

Nothing out of the ordinary here. New restaurant owner is trying to defend her investment & work at the point at which she has seen the least returns for her efforts.

Why this story is actually so big? How the hell did the Lost Ogle pick up on this?

Its actually not a story at all - but The lost Ogle has never let that get in the way of taking a shot at myself or anyone else they (as in one tiny little man) don't agree with. Actually, they don't even have to disagree with someone to attack them. Most often they don't actually know anything about the people they themselves exploit for their (as in one tiny man) own gain.

You notice they don't even mention the fact a blogger reviewed Blu's negatively, or that Blu's score remains low or that virtually every other restaurant on UrbanSpoon often gets negative reviews from day one. They ignore the FACT Blu's signed up to be reviewed and the Blu's IP address was blocked from UrbanSpoon. This had nothing to do with anything more than taking a shot at me. Which, as I've said is fine with me. This is the first time I've ever even addressed their (as in one tiny man's) attacks. In reality there is no down side for me when they do it. I've never even bothered to take them off my Facebook friend list or block them from my Twitter.

I worked directly above Markies too about 10 years ago (estimate). My employer had virtually all of the south side of the upstairs.

From a "Chef/actually a good line cook/Instructor" at an educational facility for at-risk youth over a decade ago: "My last employer said that 'the next time i feel the urge to open a restaurant, i'll just make a big pile of about two hundred thousand dollar bills and set fire to them because it is easier to do that and with a lot less hassle and grief."

But that was then and this is now . . .
Suggested Re-Reading for all of those involved in critiquing the culinary/hospitality industry arts: Kitchen Confidential (by that overpriced A. Bourdain Dude)

RadMod: "Knowing something about actually cooking and sharing makes one much more tolerant of imperfection in delivery."

(btw: i guess the gal out there in stroud with the famous cafe on 66 is looking for someone who shares what is left of her passion for the food/hosipitality industry. O! Chefs di Domani over at that college on Memorial has moved at least one step closer to perfection....anyone from the VideoVigilant...to the WanderingOgleBastardLoveChild who fails to appreciate the quality to be found at either location, mentioned above, perhaps needs to reassess their perspective. =)

If I may...
6. Owner reaches out to Urban Spoon who 'tweaks' the summary of the review


Actually, I tweaked the summary. Urban Spoon has made me a Trusted Blogger during this incident so I can now pick and choose the summaries for my blog.

Even I wasn't real happy with the part of my review they chose to use. It's happened in the past too but I couldn't change it.

My preference would always be to use either a positive, or at least a neutral, quip from my blogs to appear on Urbanspoon over anything negative I have to say. I'm now in control of that with the Trusted Blogger status.

I've learned one thing from this fiasco ~~ never trust the urbanspoon. And that just makes me sad.

New Restauanté Opening!: FIASCO (Italiano Authentica: Our Motto and Raisin D'Tree: We will never fail to meet your unrealistic expections no matter who you are).

(sad? yeah, me too, vis-a-vis the integrity of "UrbanSpoon")
(btw: the best restaurant ever was Shipman's Cafe down around there where BrianB does some of his best work)

I had 3 women come in, ate and said everything was good, ate everything, including free cookies and then went on Urban Spoon and trashed us about food they didn’t even order.

Anyone else think Blu's would be a good candidate for this show?
Kitchen Nightmare Comes True for Arizona Restaurant Owners (http://shine.yahoo.com/work-money/kitchen-nightmare-comes-true-for-arizona-restaurant-owners-182329445.html)

I'm leaning more in the direction of "Custinos' I and II" . . .
with zombies . . .
not far from an abandoned lake . . .
with dam bicyclists!

(thanx for the lol! and for "necroing" this thread!)

Anyone else think Blu's would be a good candidate for this show?
Kitchen Nightmare Comes True for Arizona Restaurant Owners (http://shine.yahoo.com/work-money/kitchen-nightmare-comes-true-for-arizona-restaurant-owners-182329445.html)

Lessons From Amy's Baking Company: Six Things You Should Never Do On Social Media - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyclay/2013/05/14/lessons-from-amys-baking-company-six-things-you-should-never-do-on-social-media/)