View Full Version : Lake Hefner at record low water levels, when will city buy Canton water?



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LandRunOkie
11-12-2012, 05:45 PM
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The city bought water in October of last year according to this article (http://newsok.com/canton-lake-water-is-being-released-to-replenish-lakes-in-oklahoma-city/article/3612754#axzz2C3baW5NL). When will our pond become a lake again?

Snowman
11-12-2012, 06:08 PM
Lake Canton is not exactly at a good level itself, probably only if drinking water becomes a concern

LandRunOkie
11-12-2012, 07:00 PM
How could drinking water become a concern in the era of bottled water? Isn't Lake Hefner more important than Lake Canton, therefore we should get more water? Is it a matter of the city being overly cautious or being cheapskates or legitimately worried? BTW Ken Burns's Dust Bowl documentary debuts on Nov 18 on PBS.

Snowman
11-12-2012, 07:45 PM
Ok, city water (general home use, commercial use, industrial use, firefighting & drinking) might be a better term, it is getting too cold for most people who would be using it recreationally anyway. With the water rights trial underway to keeps us from using capacity at Sardis Lake for our water storage, the city is probably going to be avoiding drawing any more than is necessary, though even without that I doubt they would be drawing from it anyway. Plus unless we are having shortages of city water (or Lake Canton was at flood stage), they would wait till we had several days of sustained rain forcast between here and Canton or otherwise we do not get a high enough percentage reach us to justify the release, at this point the riverbed is so dry roughly 75% - 80% would be lost in transit if you tried today.

UnclePete
11-13-2012, 04:46 AM
Seems like the oklahoma River is staying full. How is it for a drinking water supply?

jn1780
11-13-2012, 06:12 AM
Seems like the oklahoma River is staying full. How is it for a drinking water supply?

Can't really compare a river to a lake. There isn't nearly as much water and theres almost always a little bit of water flowing that keeps that little dammed up portion downtown at the same water levels.

betts
11-13-2012, 07:57 AM
I'm sure the Chamber will be leaving current photos of Lake Hefner out of any promos they do. If we're going to leave Lake Hefner as it is, we need to stop touting it as a recreation site and call it drinking water. My husband is ready to sell his sailboat, as it's been two years since he's been able to use it. Personally, I think it's embarrassing that the city lets the lake look like it does. I realize that now the river is more important, but Lake Hefner has become an eyesore.

Pete
11-13-2012, 08:11 AM
I agree... The current condition of the lake is completely shocking and there needs to be a plan in place to address these situations.


When I was in town a couple of weeks ago, I ran around the circumference of the lake, as is one of my little traditions when I come visit. I grew up very nearby, so it's not only a way to exercise off some of the comfort food (Tuckers, Casa Perico, etc.) it's also a sentimental journey.

I had no idea it had become so bad with red dirt everywhere and the boats all laying on the earth. Looked like something from national disaster footage.

We've made the lake a focus for recreation with the trails, allowed several businesses and restaurants to develop along the shore and provide a nice view from Lake Hefner Parkway. It's more important than ever to maintain decent water levels.

CaptDave
11-13-2012, 08:30 AM
IIRC, water is purchased and released from Canton Lake down the Canadian River to Lake Overholser. From there it is sent up a canal (runs by Wiley Post Airport) to Lake Hefner.

OKCTalker
11-13-2012, 09:05 AM
2877

This is the boat ramp at the NE/C of Lake Hefner taken the day before the Redman Triathlon. Race organizers were trying to add a little levity to the low water levels. The start of the swim was more of a run until the athletes reached swimmable water.

Pete
11-13-2012, 09:22 AM
They probably were Redmen after trudging through the mud and shallow water.

Achilleslastand
11-13-2012, 09:33 AM
If the lake was in bricktown what are the odds it would be full?

adaniel
11-13-2012, 09:51 AM
If the lake was in bricktown what are the odds it would be full?

Probably 99%

Canton Lake is only about 40% full and the entire lake drainage basin is in extreme or exceptional drought. I frankly never understood why this area is depending upon a lake in a semiarid part of the state, especially now with the prospect of climate change.

It does bring into stark terms the need for the Sardis Lake issue to be resolved. The city would also be wise to start having an honest conversation about water conservation, if these past few years are the "new normal" in terms of rain.

Bill Robertson
11-13-2012, 10:10 AM
If the lake was in bricktown what are the odds it would be full?
I'm sure that the city would be more concerned but I'm not sure they could do anything about it.

Last year the city bought 30,000 acre-feet of water from Canton. This raised Overholser and Hefner between 3 and 4 feet. Right now Canton is 9 feet below normal. At that level it only holds about 52,000 acre-feet. If the city took all of it, which of course they can't, it would only raise Overholser and Hefner 4 to 6 feet. Hefner is 14 feet below normal. That would just about get water back under my boat. Maybe. There just isn't enough water in Canton to make a dent in how low Hefner is. The only remedy is mother nature making it rain. A lot. The city can't make rain.

catch22
11-13-2012, 10:13 AM
We can all get our garden hoses out and run them to Lake Hefner....

Wait a minute...Nevermind

MadMonk
11-13-2012, 10:15 AM
I'm sure the Chamber will be leaving current photos of Lake Hefner out of any promos they do. If we're going to leave Lake Hefner as it is, we need to stop touting it as a recreation site and call it drinking water. My husband is ready to sell his sailboat, as it's been two years since he's been able to use it. Personally, I think it's embarrassing that the city lets the lake look like it does. I realize that now the river is more important, but Lake Hefner has become an eyesore.

But the lake hasn't been down this far for two years. I did some fishing on the lake earlier this year. I don't know when it started going down, but in early July it was very navigable with lots of sailboats on the water. I don't know what your sailboat's draft is, but even way up into the shallows on the SE side we were getting 6ft under keel.

kevinpate
11-13-2012, 10:17 AM
one way to make it rain ... they could schedule an extra festival of the arts and an extra state fair for the next three years.

Bill Robertson
11-13-2012, 10:35 AM
one way to make it rain ... they could schedule an extra festival of the arts and an extra state fair for the next three years.That might work.

BoulderSooner
11-13-2012, 11:13 AM
IIRC, water is purchased and released from Canton Lake down the Canadian River to Lake Overholser. From there it is sent up a canal (runs by Wiley Post Airport) to Lake Hefner.

also of note .. (not that it matters much this year with canton so low) is that they really need to wait to release water from canton until after it rains . ...

if they released water now from canton it would lose 50% or so to the earth on the way to Hefner ... after a good rain or 2 they only lose 20%

OkieHornet
11-13-2012, 11:24 AM
But the lake hasn't been down this far for two years. I did some fishing on the lake earlier this year. I don't know when it started going down, but in early July it was very navigable with lots of sailboats on the water. I don't know what your sailboat's draft is, but even way up into the shallows on the SE side we were getting 6ft under keel.

this is true. march/april of this year it was about as full as it had been for a while. after that, the level just really seemed to go down faster this year than in previous years.

betts
11-13-2012, 05:25 PM
But the lake hasn't been down this far for two years. I did some fishing on the lake earlier this year. I don't know when it started going down, but in early July it was very navigable with lots of sailboats on the water. I don't know what your sailboat's draft is, but even way up into the shallows on the SE side we were getting 6ft under keel.

I'm not sure how big the keel is, as it's a 25 foot sailboat, but I think it was out once this year. Then we were told it would be wise to take it out of the lake as the water level was falling quickly. I would have to see the sailboats that were out. Centerboard boats can sail in far less water than keelboats. Some of the problem with a sailboat is also that if you get stuck it's a huge pain in the neck to get the boat off a sand bank. People can't always just jump out and push. So, you have to err on the side of caution. Regardless, my biggest gripe is how ugly the lake is. If it's water supply that's one issue, but if the lake is going to be promoted for recreation, it's pretty bad to let it get that low.

SoonerQueen
11-13-2012, 05:44 PM
I'm not sure how big the keel is, as it's a 25 foot sailboat, but I think it was out once this year. Then we were told it would be wise to take it out of the lake as the water level was falling quickly. I would have to see the sailboats that were out. Centerboard boats can sail in far less water than keelboats. Some of the problem with a sailboat is also that if you get stuck it's a huge pain in the neck to get the boat off a sand bank. People can't always just jump out and push. So, you have to err on the side of caution. Regardless, my biggest gripe is how ugly the lake is. If it's water supply that's one issue, but if the lake is going to be promoted for recreation, it's pretty bad to let it get that low.

We live close to Lake Hefner and go out there most every day. I have never seen it so low. There is actually no water where the fishing pier is. There is nothing more beautiful than a full lake and a sunset at the end of the day. We either need to get some rain or bring in some water.

Snowman
11-13-2012, 05:52 PM
If this type of weather cycle happens more frequently we many need to look into feeding water from Draper/Atoka pipeline to Hefner. Though without additional capacity like from the planned second pipeline and Lake Sardis or somewhere else that may not even be feasible.

RadicalModerate
11-13-2012, 10:33 PM
. . . and still the waters roll, and flow, out of the automatic sprinkler systems, keeping the grass green, over the curbs and into the gutters and into the street on down to . . . =)
i wonder if "they" still accept beads and trinkets for manhatten?

bluedogok
11-13-2012, 10:50 PM
I'm sure that the city would be more concerned but I'm not sure they could do anything about it.

Last year the city bought 30,000 acre-feet of water from Canton. This raised Overholser and Hefner between 3 and 4 feet. Right now Canton is 9 feet below normal. At that level it only holds about 52,000 acre-feet. If the city took all of it, which of course they can't, it would only raise Overholser and Hefner 4 to 6 feet. Hefner is 14 feet below normal. That would just about get water back under my boat. Maybe. There just isn't enough water in Canton to make a dent in how low Hefner is. The only remedy is mother nature making it rain. A lot. The city can't make rain.
When I moved to Denver last year Lake Travis in Austin was 65 feet low, the LCRA caught a lot of crap for water releases downstream for the rice farmers near the coast but they had contracts they had to honor. At least that isn't the case for the OKC lakes.

1972ford
11-13-2012, 11:00 PM
Now would be a good opportunity to excavate some of the lake to increase its capacity once rain does finally fill it. I would not expect in amount necessary to make a difference until late march. All we can hope for in the meantime is a really good snowy winter and a fast thaw to fill the lakes.

RadicalModerate
11-13-2012, 11:16 PM
Plus it would provide an opportunity to provide a jobs program writing citations for leaving muddy tire tracks where muddy tire tracks have never gone before . . . =)
(well . . . wouldn't it?)

Snowman
11-14-2012, 05:19 AM
Now would be a good opportunity to excavate some of the lake to increase its capacity once rain does finally fill it. I would not expect in amount necessary to make a difference until late march. All we can hope for in the meantime is a really good snowy winter and a fast thaw to fill the lakes.

It would also be a good time to do rehabilitation on sections of the ramps into the lake that are normally inaccesable

MadMonk
11-14-2012, 07:33 AM
Now would be a good opportunity to excavate some of the lake to increase its capacity once rain does finally fill it. I would not expect in amount necessary to make a difference until late march. All we can hope for in the meantime is a really good snowy winter and a fast thaw to fill the lakes.

Good idea! I bet that dirt would make for some pretty fertile mix-in / top soil.

TechArch
11-14-2012, 07:57 AM
Or the city could place water restrictions on residents. We still have not recovered from last year's drought and this year is below average as well.

BoulderSooner
11-14-2012, 08:29 AM
Or the city could place water restrictions on residents. We still have not recovered from last year's drought and this year is below average as well.

okc doesn't have a water issue .. our water trust has done a wonderful job to provide for OKC's future water needs

Dubya61
11-14-2012, 10:57 AM
okc doesn't have a water issue .. our water trust has done a wonderful job to provide for OKC's future water needs

Maybe OKC doesn't have a water issue, but one of it's lakes clearly does.

kevinpate
11-14-2012, 12:50 PM
Maybe OKC doesn't have a water issue, but one of it's lakes clearly does.

more than one, if memory serves.

Bill Robertson
11-14-2012, 01:23 PM
Maybe OKC doesn't have a water issue, but one of it's lakes clearly does.

Actually all three lakes, Hefner, Overholser and Draper are very low. But this is only an issue as far as recreation and aesthetics are concerned. The capacity as far as usable water is not even near being dangerously low. I know that much of what's left of Hefner is still 50 to 70 feet deep based on depth at normal elevation. I believe that's the case with Draper also. The lakes are for water storage. Recreation is a side benefit when the water is there. Those of us that keep boats on the city lakes sign a form every spring that states that we understand that the lake may or may not be usable for boating. Again, the city can't make it rain.

Achilleslastand
11-14-2012, 03:17 PM
Im suprised that Hefners maximum depth is about the same as Eufaula's. I always thought Eufaula was much much deeper.

Dale Birchett
11-14-2012, 04:43 PM
I'm no inside expert on the city water supply system but I have heard the following:

The flow down the Canadian to Canton is reduced and I believe there is a dispute with Texas over their use of the water but it also may be drought related because Lake Meridith , north of Amarillo has had very little water in it for years;

Once the water gets to Canton it is "turbid" primarily from upstream agricultural run-off;

The agreement with the City of Canton recognizes the economic impact of the lake as a recreation area and makes allowances for protecting this income source;

It is correct that the dry riverbed from Canton to OKC can absorb as much as 80% of a water release;

The Water Trust doesn't like to use Canton Lake water for the OKC water supply because the turbidity makes the water more expensive to purify which leads to higher water costs for system users;

The pollutants in the water settle into the lake beds making dredging a dicey proposition;

There are plans to: add a second pipeline from Lake Atoka to Draper Lake, build a 'sister' lake to Lake Draper on the west side, & build a pipeline from Draper to Lake Hefner;

While Hefner is primarily a water supply lake, in the early 1940's salesmen went door-to-door in OKC selling bonds to finance the lake envisioned by the late Mayor (Judge) Robert Hefner who said he wanted to build a lake to answer the future water supply needs of OKC and to provide a recreational area for our boys fighting in Europe and the Pacific so when they came home they would have a great park to take their families to for picnics! (I'm paraphrasing because I don't have my copy of his autobiography with me.)

Is the Oklahoma River impounding water that could have been used in Hefner and Overholser? Probably.

Would the smart move have been to run the Draper to Overholser/Hefner pipeline from Draper to the Canadian/Oklahoma river then up the river to Overholser BEFORE building the string of pearls dams? Seems that way to me.

But let's face it, Oklahoma is in infrastructure cheap mode right now, as long as it's not MAPS, and these things cost big money. So the choice is with the consumer, to keep the rates constant you can reduce water usage and let the lakes fill or keep the current utilization rate and have low lake levels. Somehow I think the golf courses and lawns are going to win out over the recreational water users.

LandRunOkie
11-14-2012, 05:46 PM
A lot of good info there.
Here are some of the articles I've read on this:
Water issues are complex and easy answers few | Tulsa World (http://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/article.aspx?subjectid=211&articleid=20120212_211_G1_CUTLIN852571) addresses water battle with Texas

Some long form coverage from This Land (3 parts)
Troubled Waters, Part 1 | This Land Press (http://thislandpress.com/09/04/2012/troubled-waters-part-1/)
The Thirst Games | This Land Press (http://thislandpress.com/10/03/2012/the-thirst-games/)

Donald Faulkner sees all this as downright disingenuous. “They’ve asked the Corps of Engineers to release 30,000 acre feet of water from Canton Lake to fill up this river in Oklahoma City, just so they can row boats on it,” he declares. “How can they say it’s okay for them to have nonconsumptive use of their water, but it’s not okay for us?”
Troubled Waters III: Balancing Act | This Land Press (http://thislandpress.com/10/17/2012/troubled-waters-iii-balancing-act/)

Good news from newsok:
Second straight summer of drought hurts Oklahoma City reservoirs | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/second-straight-summer-of-drought-hurts-oklahoma-city-reservoirs/article/3709664)

Various projects to expand Oklahoma City's capacity to draw raw water from other parts of the state and to pump out more drinking water are under way. The city is expected to spend nearly half a billion dollars in the next five years on improving its water supply infrastructure.

Canton Lake to be lowered | Outdoors (http://blog.newsok.com/outdoors/2011/10/12/canton-lake-to-be-lowered/) This newsok article claims 30,000 acre-feet of water went to Overholser and Hefner, not the Oklahoma River. Were there two purchases or is Ed Godfrey wrong or is Faulkner from the This Land article wrong? There is a lot of confusion on this issue..

Snowman
11-14-2012, 10:03 PM
Canton Lake to be lowered | Outdoors This newsok article claims 30,000 acre-feet of water went to Overholser and Hefner, not the Oklahoma River. Were there two purchases or is Ed Godfrey wrong or is Faulkner from the This Land article wrong? There is a lot of confusion on this issue..

Every release from Canton I have followed, which I think is all them over the last two years, has been to fill Overholser and Hefner. It sounds like This Land Press is not exactly impartial, they are likely against OKC getting the water rights to Lake Sardis specifically or larger cities expanding their water supplies in this manor in general, from the way they want negotiations to happen and uses they favor for the Sardis.

Granted though if it goes into Overholser it will be used by the city, pass through the river eventually or evaporate; so some would have ended up in the river if they want to claim that. There has been at least one releases from Overholser to the river before a large event expressly for that, though that would have only been a small percentage from a prior release at Canton if any of it could be tracked back to a release from Canton. Generally though they just let the river basins fill as rainwater comes in and shifted some from the upper river basin to the boathouse basin if it required more for an event.

jn1780
11-14-2012, 11:22 PM
I'm no inside expert on the city water supply system but I have heard the following:

The flow down the Canadian to Canton is reduced and I believe there is a dispute with Texas over their use of the water but it also may be drought related because Lake Meridith , north of Amarillo has had very little water in it for years;

Once the water gets to Canton it is "turbid" primarily from upstream agricultural run-off;

The agreement with the City of Canton recognizes the economic impact of the lake as a recreation area and makes allowances for protecting this income source;

It is correct that the dry riverbed from Canton to OKC can absorb as much as 80% of a water release;

The Water Trust doesn't like to use Canton Lake water for the OKC water supply because the turbidity makes the water more expensive to purify which leads to higher water costs for system users;

The pollutants in the water settle into the lake beds making dredging a dicey proposition;

There are plans to: add a second pipeline from Lake Atoka to Draper Lake, build a 'sister' lake to Lake Draper on the west side, & build a pipeline from Draper to Lake Hefner;

While Hefner is primarily a water supply lake, in the early 1940's salesmen went door-to-door in OKC selling bonds to finance the lake envisioned by the late Mayor (Judge) Robert Hefner who said he wanted to build a lake to answer the future water supply needs of OKC and to provide a recreational area for our boys fighting in Europe and the Pacific so when they came home they would have a great park to take their families to for picnics! (I'm paraphrasing because I don't have my copy of his autobiography with me.)

Is the Oklahoma River impounding water that could have been used in Hefner and Overholser? Probably.

Would the smart move have been to run the Draper to Overholser/Hefner pipeline from Draper to the Canadian/Oklahoma river then up the river to Overholser BEFORE building the string of pearls dams? Seems that way to me.

But let's face it, Oklahoma is in infrastructure cheap mode right now, as long as it's not MAPS, and these things cost big money. So the choice is with the consumer, to keep the rates constant you can reduce water usage and let the lakes fill or keep the current utilization rate and have low lake levels. Somehow I think the golf courses and lawns are going to win out over the recreational water users.

The Oklahoma River is downstream from Hefner and Draper so it has very little to do with these two lakes water levels. Even if it was upstream it would still have little effect since the volume of water it holds is nothing compared to these lakes. Of course, initially filling up the Oklahoma River when a dam breaks wastes a lot of water through evaporation and absorbition.

HewenttoJared
11-15-2012, 06:12 AM
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/expert_assessment/season_drought.gif
Not changing soon. The city needs a longterm water plan.

LandRunOkie
11-15-2012, 07:14 AM
Every release from Canton I have followed, which I think is all them over the last two years, has been to fill Overholser and Hefner. It sounds like This Land Press is not exactly impartial, they are likely against OKC getting the water rights to Lake Sardis specifically or larger cities expanding their water supplies in this manor in general...
They are basically an online magazine, so they are allowed to have their own perspective. Their work on this was interesting and informative.


The Oklahoma River is downstream from Hefner and Draper so it has very little to do with these two lakes water levels. Even if it was upstream it would still have little effect since the volume of water it holds is nothing compared to these lakes.

And those This Land articles claim Sardis is downstream from OKC, which would make it necessary to build a massive uphill pumping operation to get their water. Plus Overholser is the lake that is used to fill the Oklahoma River. Just read the articles.


Of course, initially filling up the Oklahoma River when a dam breaks wastes a lot of water through evaporation and absorbition.
A dam just broke this summer.

OKCTalker
11-15-2012, 07:22 AM
Dale Birchett knows what he's talking about - he's head of Friends of Lake Hefner (and also a good airplane mechanic to boot).

BoulderSooner
11-15-2012, 07:41 AM
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/expert_assessment/season_drought.gif
Not changing soon. The city needs a longterm water plan.

OKC is in a GREAT water position longterm .. our water utilities trust has done a wonderful job protecting out future

LandRunOkie
11-15-2012, 08:02 AM
There are plans to: add a second pipeline from Lake Atoka to Draper Lake, build a 'sister' lake to Lake Draper on the west side, & build a pipeline from Draper to Lake Hefner...

Is the Oklahoma River impounding water that could have been used in Hefner and Overholser? Probably. ...

Would the smart move have been to run the Draper to Overholser/Hefner pipeline from Draper to the Canadian/Oklahoma river then up the river to Overholser BEFORE building the string of pearls dams? Seems that way to me.


These plans may be what the city is talking about when Ragan says the city will spend approx $500 million in the next 5 years on water. But the city's water demands will become increasingly taxing to the environment, as Lake Atoka is lower than us elevation wise and importing water from the SE part of the state will require massive pumping and environmental disruption. It may be wiser to increase conservation and raise water rates in the long run.

Snowman
11-15-2012, 08:16 AM
... And those This Land articles claim Sardis is downstream from OKC, which would make it necessary to build a massive uphill pumping operation to get their water. ...

Sardis is at a lower elevation than OKC which requires pumping their was no stream connecting them, both the existing pipeline and the new one are artificial.


These plans may be what the city is talking about when Ragan says the city will spend approx $500 million in the next 5 years on water. But the city's water demands will become increasingly taxing to the environment, as Lake Atoka is lower than us elevation wise and importing water from the SE part of the state will require massive pumping and environmental disruption. It may be wiser to increase conservation and raise water rates in the long run.

Outside of banning agriculture (vast majority of use) and watering lawns all the conservation is a drop in the bucket. Atoka has been at a lower elevation than us since we built the pipeline to it decades ago, it is pretty cheap to move it up the pump stations verses the treatment process we use on cantons water, the 500 million is on building a second pipeline parallel that extends to lake Sardis. The environmental damage they are estimating insinuates we pull a move like LA did, however we have not done anything like that with Atoka, even through the worst of this drought it is still near capacity.

BoulderSooner
11-15-2012, 08:22 AM
These plans may be what the city is talking about when Ragan says the city will spend approx $500 million in the next 5 years on water. But the city's water demands will become increasingly taxing to the environment, as Lake Atoka is lower than us elevation wise and importing water from the SE part of the state will require massive pumping and environmental disruption. It may be wiser to increase conservation and raise water rates in the long run.

your definition of "massive" i think would be different then most ... and the environmental disruption is way overstated

bombermwc
11-15-2012, 08:39 AM
We're not exactlly in a water shortage....do you really remember much rationing in OKC this summer?

I do, however, feel that local is better. I don't understand why the city doesn't place more effort on the Draper expansion than all this crap with Canton. It seems a no brainer that if the water is closer to the source, and can be piped rather than exposed, less will be lost in the transfer. Not to mention the fact that you could actually put a water treatment facility at Draper at that point because there is so much water right there. That would even save the need to pipe it 15 miles across town.

And people wonder why the city keeps the SE sector...ha.

Popsy
11-15-2012, 08:55 AM
Sardis Lake is close to Lake Atoka. OKC already has a line in place from Lake Atoka, so the Sardis line could tie into the existing Atoka line and avoid the expense of a direct line from OKC to Sardis.

HewenttoJared
11-15-2012, 09:59 AM
OKC is in a GREAT water position longterm .. our water utilities trust has done a wonderful job protecting out future

Yea, as long as longterm(multi-decadal) rainfall projections are all wrong...

BoulderSooner
11-15-2012, 10:05 AM
Yea, as long as longterm(multi-decadal) rainfall projections are all wrong...

umm no

HewenttoJared
11-15-2012, 11:02 AM
umm no

Strongly argued.
How about maths?

Model Projections of an Imminent Transition to a More Arid Climate in Southwestern North America (http://www.sciencemag.org/content/316/5828/1181)

If these models are correct, the levels of aridity of the recent multiyear drought or the Dust Bowl and the 1950s droughts will become the new climatology of the American Southwest within a time frame of years to decades.

BoulderSooner
11-15-2012, 11:10 AM
i don't think you really understand where our water supply comes from

Bellaboo
11-15-2012, 11:28 AM
It definately does not come from the Colorado River, more like Southeastern Oklahoma.

HewenttoJared
11-15-2012, 11:50 AM
i don't think you really understand where our water supply comes from

That information is a valuable online, so I'm not sure why you think I wouldn't know it. Tell me, what source do you think is unaffected by longterm drought?

Snowman
11-15-2012, 05:06 PM
Sardis Lake is close to Lake Atoka. OKC already has a line in place from Lake Atoka, so the Sardis line could tie into the existing Atoka line and avoid the expense of a direct line from OKC to Sardis.

The existing line does not have much capacity to spare, which is what prompted looking into where more water may eventually be stored/drawn from which is what lead to buying the capacity at Sardis, though the new one they have planed parallels the existing one to Atoka.

RadicalModerate
11-16-2012, 12:45 AM
i don't think you really understand where our water supply comes from

i guess not . . . i thought you simply opened the valve on the sink fixture and there it (the drinkable water) was!
sort of like how you put a plug into an outlet and there it (the electricity) is!
i can't tell you how thankful i am for your planning in regard to the gravity of the situation.
obviously, our potable water supply is the net result of melting iceburgs thanks to global warming.

SSEiYah
11-17-2012, 08:24 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MABD3r764fg&hd=1

HD Version:
Lake Hefner Drought - November, 2012 - Oklahoma City, OK - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MABD3r764fg&hd=1)

I shot some footage today.

RadicalModerate
11-18-2012, 11:12 AM
I am glad that The Water Resources Managers have this so under control that the lawn sprinklers can run free.

RadicalModerate
11-19-2012, 09:30 AM
If there isn't a hard and fast rule against linking concepts between threads, I would suggest that The Water Resources Managers of Oklahoma City be given discount coupons for a meal on the patio at the recently reopened Red Rock Grill/Restaurant. There is an outside chance that they may own a time-share piece of one of the sailboats soon to be sinking into the mud of the lagoon.

(sorry . . . i voluntarily got brainwashed on PBS last night by Ken Burns . . . again . . .)

Edited to Add: VERY effective, opening frozen shot on your shared video, SSEiyah . . . reminded me, in a vague, semi-disconnected way of Eastman's "Faded Elegance" (of Havana) presentation . . . (and of that "Mysterious Lake Hefner Pipeline" from about a year ago.) Thank you.

Just the facts
11-19-2012, 01:26 PM
. . . and still the waters roll, and flow, out of the automatic sprinkler systems, keeping the grass green, over the curbs and into the gutters and into the street on down to . . . =)
i wonder if "they" still accept beads and trinkets for manhatten?

Good observation. Drought or raining cats and dogs, those sprinkler systems keeping all the grass green just keeps right on going. Sooner or later people are going to start to see the tremendous waste of resources we have created. Anyhow, good thing the City just finished that $50 million water plant expansion so Hefner can be drained faster. Seems like it worked as designed. The multitudes should rejoice that a public works project actually did what they designed it to do.

From 2011:

http://newsok.com/water-treatment-plant-is-expanded-for-growing-oklahoma-city/article/3605613


Water treatment plant is expanded for growing Oklahoma City

The Lake Hefner Water Treatment Plant is in the midst of a $48.5 million expansion project. The plant will be able to pump out 100 million gallons of tap water each day after the renovation, up from the current 75 million gallons.

If you follow the link take a peek at the lone comment on that story.