While Hefner is up, just go look at the lines on the rip rap. Was on Mama Roja's patio last night and there is still a ways to go. Are you so itching to take three hour baths, leave you sprinklers on all day, and wash your truck daily that you believe we are in some luxurious spot with water?
Correct. It is still down around 7 feet, which is in no way insignificant. Overholser is down 2.

If they are going to build a new one, the most likely time is when adding the second pipeline to the Atoka / Sardis area

No reservoir is in that plan, and they are adding THREE new pipelines paralleling each other over like a 47 year time frame. One at a time essentially.

WIth Eufaula into its flood pool I doubt there is any need for the release of water downstream.

Eufaula is a long way away. There are a lot of stops along the way, and other entities that use the water supply from the North Canadian. Okc is not the last stop on the way to Eufaula.

^^^^^^^^^
This is true, but I still believe opening the gates had more to do with the quick run-up over the past few days and their desire to stay ahead of it and avoid cresting the dam. If you look at this graphic you can see that it gained roughly a foot a day in the three days BEFORE yesterday's downpour, much of which happened in the watershed. Another day and the lake would have been 100% full with nowhere for Additional floodwaters to go other than over the small spillway...or the top of the dam.

Looking at the graphic, it appears that they actually opened the gates on Friday, in anticipation of more flooding. I think they just don't want to be caught napping and suddenly crest a century-old dam. Pretty reasonable response I think.

http://137.227.241.93/nwisweb/data/img/USGS.07240500.04.00065..20150503.20150510..0..gif

It was said in 2013 that Overholser lake let out enough water during that mini flood that would have filled Hefner. Of course Hefner was also full at the time so there was no place to store the water. We get plenty of water in normal years but since we have so little storage it just goes downstream. There should be no need for water conservation in OKC.

Yes and no. As it stands now, yes there is. If we would dredge our current storage, then I agree with you.

Eufaula is a long way away. There are a lot of stops along the way, and other entities that use the water supply from the North Canadian. Okc is not the last stop on the way to Eufaula.

Please share what stops there are once the water leaves OKC. Eufaula is the next storage point. Until then the water just runs down the river.

When he says stops he means the communities along the river whose WTP draw from the river for their water source.

Maybe it has something to do with screwing up the ecosystem by completely damming up the river and not letting some water pass through? It maybe a small river without dam's, but the river was there long before people moved into the state and started drinking from it.

Exactly jn1780. It's that same reason that treating sewer plant effluent for drinking water instead of releasing downstream isn't a no brainier, it affects the ecosystem downstream that depends on that added water to the system.

Fun fact. Lake texoma added around 200,000 acre feet of water today. Just shy of 68 billion gallons. CFS has been topping over 100,000 and as I drove over the red river today I've never seen it that full before.

http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/webdata/gagedata/DSNT2.current.html

It was said in 2013 that Overholser lake let out enough water during that mini flood that would have filled Hefner. Of course Hefner was also full at the time so there was no place to store the water. We get plenty of water in normal years but since we have so little storage it just goes downstream. There should be no need for water conservation in OKC.

while your point may be valid, why would we not want to conserve? That just seems like a dickish comment.

I agree...water should always be respected and treated as a precious resources. During plentiful times and drought equally.

I didn't say we shouldn't conserve water. I said there should be no need to conserve water here. We have a storage problem not a water problem.

Here is what some of the pro-conservation movement people are doing about the drought

Here?s what celebrities? lawns look like during California?s drought | Page Six (http://pagesix.com/2015/05/09/3941513/)

If the link doesn't work just Google to California celebrities. :banghead:

I think we should keep the odd/even day watering system in place, I'm all for some conservation, but many of us want to take it to an extreme. Not me brother, I like the luxury it provides me.

I took a motorcycle ride around Hefner last night, and the idea that it is anywhere close to full is ludicrous. In many of the normally-shallow places the waterline is 100, 200 (and more) yards from where it is supposed to be. Perhaps someone is confused when looking at it, as vegetation has become well-established in these places during the drought.

The water along the dam is many feet below the long-established waterline on the riprap. The boats in the marina are 7-8 feet below their normal relationship with the concrete docks. If the lake were full, you could step directly from the dock to a boat in a slip; instead you must walk down steps that are typically submerged. The decks of the boats are 6 feet and more below the docks. Of course, it is a huge improvement from a few weeks ago, when they ware all resting on mud.

Anyway, there is still a LONG way to go, and while the rain we're getting later this week will yet again help, we are in no danger of having a full Hefner in the immediate future.

Looks like the last thirty days are are already setting a record in some regions, with more rain on the way

http://climate.ok.gov/index.php/drought/last_30_days/drought_wildfire


Climate Division, Total Rainfall Departure from Normal, Pct of Normal, Rank since 1921 (95 periods), Driest on Record, Wettest on Record
Panhandle 4.82" +2.95" 258% 3rd wettest 0.18" (1996) 6.38" (1999)
N. Central 7.45" +4.16" 226% 2nd wettest 0.49" (2005) 9.69" (1993)
Northeast 6.55" +1.91" 141% 19th wettest 0.79" (2005) 11.81" (1995)
W. Central 10.19" +7.41" 367% 1st wettest 0.21" (1996) 9.04" (1957)
Central 10.41" +6.47" 264% 1st wettest 0.44" (2005) 10.29" (1993)
E. Central 12.13" +7.36" 254% 2nd wettest 1.27" (1988) 15.91" (1990)
Southwest 10.38" +7.23" 329% 2nd wettest 0.12" (1987) 10.68" (1957)
S. Central 12.66" +8.28" 289% 2nd wettest 1.16" (2012) 15.37" (1990)
Southeast 13.20" +8.01" 254% 4th wettest 1.70" (1987) 13.71" (1990)
Statewide 9.63" +5.84" 254% 1st wettest 1.14" (2005) 8.83" (1993)

I took a motorcycle ride around Hefner last night, and the idea that it is anywhere close to full is ludicrous. In many of the normally-shallow places the waterline is 100, 200 (and more) yards from where it is supposed to be. Perhaps someone is confused when looking at it, as vegetation has become well-established in these places during the drought.

The water along the dam is many feet below the long-established waterline on the riprap. The boats in the marina are 7-8 feet below their normal relationship with the concrete docks. If the lake were full, you could step directly from the dock to a boat in a slip; instead you must walk down steps that are typically submerged. The decks of the boats are 6 feet and more below the docks. Of course, it is a huge improvement from a few weeks ago, when they ware all resting on mud.

Anyway, there is still a LONG way to go, and while the rain we're getting later this week will yet again help, we are in no danger of having a full Hefner in the immediate future.

I wouldn't say *no* danger, but we're definitely going to need to have a wet June in addition to May keeping a steady pace. June is regularly one of our wettest months though, so hopefully it turns out that way.

With the ground saturation we have at this point, an inch of rain on Wednesday should cause good runoff. Lake Altus is up to 30% and Tom Steed is at 40%, would be great to get both to near 50% at least before July hits. I just hope this is the end of the drought for a long cycle, and we don't immediately return to another 5 years dry.

Do y'all ever get tired of liveblogging the rain?

Here is what some of the pro-conservation movement people are doing about the drought

Here?s what celebrities? lawns look like during California?s drought | Page Six (http://pagesix.com/2015/05/09/3941513/)

If the link doesn't work just Google to California celebrities. :banghead:

I think we should keep the odd/even day watering system in place, I'm all for some conservation, but many of us want to take it to an extreme. Not me brother, I like the luxury it provides me.

California's problem is they live they lifestyle of someone who lives in Atlanta while living in the middle of a desert.

Hefner picked up another foot since yesterday morning...now sitting at a 6' deficit from normal elevation.

In other news, Canton backslid a bit, now back down to 29.95% of conservation pool vs. 30% yesterday.

http://www.swt-wc.usace.army.mil/images/x-y/CANT.hp.png

I guess we will see just how much conservation (changes to lifestyles) is needed when all this water is gone in 6 months.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/ad/ad8fd4da11179739841853ff8802caf36df5b8d589fede6274 10f5751968279b.jpg

I wouldn't say *no* danger, but we're definitely going to need to have a wet June in addition to May keeping a steady pace. June is regularly one of our wettest months though, so hopefully it turns out that way.

Remember though that 2 years ago we had almost double our normal annual rainfall and yet last year happened immediately afterwards. This rain is nice but it's no panacea.

There is a lot of space in between the extremes of not worrying one bit about water usage and doing away with golf courses, swimming pools and xerascaping everyone's yard. We should all absolutely do our part to conserve and watch our usage. However, we aren't close to the point we need to be worrying about people filling up their pools or having green grass.

Remember though that 2 years ago we had almost double our normal annual rainfall and yet last year happened immediately afterwards. This rain is nice but it's no panacea.

Eastern OK hasn't had the same drought issues as the western half of the state but Skiatook Lake has been over 10 ft low for the past couple years due to low inflows in its catchment basin northwest of Tulsa. Even with the recent rains it is still 14 ft down though rising slowly.

There is a lot of space in between the extremes of not worrying one bit about water usage and doing away with golf courses, swimming pools and xerascaping everyone's yard. We should all absolutely do our part to conserve and watch our usage. However, we aren't close to the point we need to be worrying about people filling up their pools or having green grass.

Exactly, I'm pretty much in the camp of live on what the environment provides.

For example, OKC averages 36inches a year. The city as a whole should live off 33 of those and save 3 for droughts.

Double post

I guess we will see just how much conservation (changes to lifestyles) is needed when all this water is gone in 6 months.

This thread was started how many years ago? What changes in lifestyles have happened since then? The chicken little act was a little hasty at first. At this point, it is almost absurd.

Our water resources are managed by professionals. I like to think that since this city built its municipal water infrastructure, whenever a resident has turned on a faucet, water has come out of it. I'll give those guys the benefit of the doubt. They have us covered for the foreseeable future and the present. There are plans to massively expand our water supply in the next fifty or so years as the population is projected to expand. You might worry if some of those things don't come to fruition... but so far, all of them are well underway.

The people of Canton Lake had their water supply raided once because of a drought because that's why OKC bought those water rights. The system worked and it'll work again if it has to.

So if you're worried about running out of water, might I suggest directing your attention to matters which are a little more firmly rooted in reality?

With all the rain we have gotten, it still seems crazy looking at this latest forecast from the NWS

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/images/fxc/oun/graphicast/image_full1.jpg

I just captured this from a live webcam. Lake looks almost completely full now:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hefner051115.jpg

Looking better, now it won't be embarrassing to take out of town guest to the restaurants.
Sailors delight.

Here is a cool contrast from https://twitter.com/OklahomaVMA:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CEvMjjBUsAA6dwa.jpg:large

^^^^^^
Still down about 5.5', which is much more apparent from up close. But DEFINITELY a huge improvement over recent months.

So if you're worried about running out of water, might I suggest directing your attention to matters which are a little more firmly rooted in reality?
Or move to Stillwater to enjoy a near drought proof supply of water from Kaw Lake, reliably fed by the Arkansas River.

It seems like we could take much more advantage of flooding rains if the Hefner Canal could handle more capacity. I am not 100% what its max is, but it seems that they were trying to keep it at 7.5 feet, while a ton of water continued downstream to a very full N. Canadian River and Eufaula Lake.

I drove to Ft. Smith this weekend and the amount of flooding on the N. Canadian was very impressive, on Sunday it was threatening many structures that I could see from I-40. The Arkansas River in Ft. Smith was out of its banks on the Oklahoma side.

People need to learn how to water their lawns correctly, watering everyday isn't just a waste of water it is bad for your grass, especially Bermuda.
http://publications.tamu.edu/TURF_LANDSCAPE/PUB_turf_Maintaining%20Bermudagrass%20Lawns.pdf
Don?t Be a Lawn Watering Dummy | Southern Living Blog (http://thedailysouth.southernliving.com/2011/07/12/dont-be-a-lawn-watering-dummy/)
HGIC 1207 Watering Lawns : Extension : Clemson University : South Carolina (http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgic/plants/landscape/lawns/hgic1207.html)

It seems like we could take much more advantage of flooding rains if the Hefner Canal could handle more capacity. I am not 100% what its max is, but it seems that they were trying to keep it at 7.5 feet, while a ton of water continued downstream to a very full N. Canadian River and Eufaula Lake.

The canal to Hefner has been consistently at 98% to 99% full since we started getting rain. I think they opened the gates on the North Canadian river around the time that it volume in the river between OKC & Canton was certain to fill Hefner and Overholser while we were still getting pretty heavy rain. Maybe it is to keep some surge control in Overholser for surge volumes, maybe they are not willing to fill it to capacity without some maintenance or maybe the just want to fill it more slowly.

It seems like we could take much more advantage of flooding rains if the Hefner Canal could handle more capacity. I am not 100% what its max is, but it seems that they were trying to keep it at 7.5 feet, while a ton of water continued downstream to a very full N. Canadian River and Eufaula Lake.


This may sound trivial, perhaps even elementary in thought, but, was any work performed during the last few years' drought to dig out some high spots in the lakes? I mean, I'm just thinking out loud here, digging out even a couple acres worth just 2-3 feet lower than it's current level could add thousands and thousands of gallons of capacity. Obviously, if this were done on a respectable scale, we could see some of these smaller lakes and their capacities increase dramatically (on a relative scale).

Anyone have an answer or know how something like that could be done?

I've seen many farmers dig out there ponds over the last few years to make them deeper and wider because for once they had a chance while they were dry, and also because it only takes a decent rainy season to fill anything up. Thus, they have a larger pond with additional capacity than before.

sometimes I wonder if they keep the lake empty on purpose at hefner.

Officially at 1195' above sea level. Only four more feet and it will be full!

Well it doesn't look like Canton got much at all today but I was looking at radar earlier today and it sure looked like Canton and areas north were getting rained on for several hours. At this rate I am wondering if Canton lake will ever be full again.

Well it doesn't look like Canton got much at all today but I was looking at radar earlier today and it sure looked like Canton and areas north were getting rained on for several hours. At this rate I am wondering if Canton lake will ever be full again.

When the storm was seeming to be the most intense, it was just barely reaching for Canton but to really have any noticeable effect it would have needed to be west of where it was at (keeping going more north would have helped too but not as much), about 100 mile to the northwest and it would have been a totally different result. Though what it got today should at least add a little to compensate for evaporation and get a better percentage of what was already flowing through the river to the lake.

Apparently Draper is full.
High water poses hazards at Oklahoma City's Lake Draper | News OK (http://newsok.com/high-water-poses-hazards-at-oklahoma-citys-lake-draper/article/5418809)

It seems that Canton loses water rather quickly. Is there a reason for that?

Prob all the farmers draining the lake. But OKC gets the blame when we buy the water we paid for.

Apparently Draper is full.
High water poses hazards at Oklahoma City's Lake Draper | News OK (http://newsok.com/high-water-poses-hazards-at-oklahoma-citys-lake-draper/article/5418809)

This makes me happy. It looked so pitiful when they drained it down so far to do the work a while back. I have pretty much stopped going by the lake.

I used to do some good work up there; sitting under a tree at a picnic table or on a blanket or even up on the truck hood. Might be time to start that back up again.

It's probably going to rain a bunch tonight. And Hefner might be up 2 inches. And someone will post about it.

Then someone will say something about xeriscaping.

This may sound trivial, perhaps even elementary in thought, but, was any work performed during the last few years' drought to dig out some high spots in the lakes? I mean, I'm just thinking out loud here, digging out even a couple acres worth just 2-3 feet lower than it's current level could add thousands and thousands of gallons of capacity. Obviously, if this were done on a respectable scale, we could see some of these smaller lakes and their capacities increase dramatically (on a relative scale).

Anyone have an answer or know how something like that could be done?

I've seen many farmers dig out there ponds over the last few years to make them deeper and wider because for once they had a chance while they were dry, and also because it only takes a decent rainy season to fill anything up. Thus, they have a larger pond with additional capacity than before.

The problem is the amount dirt you would have to remove to make a difference is astronautic. Lake Hefner's normal capacity is 72,500 acre-ft. To increase that just 10% you'd have to remove 7250 acre-ft of dirt, which would require over 433,000 dump truck loads. The more practical solution would be to raise the levee/dam to increase the normal elevation.

When ports drudge ship channels it is a relatively narrow area and they can dump all the material nearby for free and there is huge economic benefit to do it.

The problem is the amount dirt you would have to remove to make a difference is astronautic. Lake Hefner's normal capacity is 72,500 acre-ft. To increase that just 10% you'd have to remove 7250 acre-ft of dirt, which would require over 433,000 dump truck loads. The more practical solution would be to raise the levee/dam to increase the normal elevation.

When ports drudge ship channels it is a relatively narrow area and they can dump all the material nearby for free and there is huge economic benefit to do it.

Hefner has some flood capacity already, the things you have to move is what was allowed to be built in the flood area

It's probably going to rain a bunch tonight. And Hefner might be up 2 inches. And someone will post about it.

Then someone will say something about xeriscaping.

real easy to not click on threads

The western 1/3 of Oklahoma is still pretty dang low in terms of drought though. Canton is one of those lakes that didn't get hit by the mega rain, so it didn't fill up. There are still lakes in that section of the state that are 17-19' low.

not if someone wants to gritch about someone else gritching it ain't. :)

Hefner has picked up just under a foot in the past day and a half. Almost exactly three feet below normal now, most of which will probably happen thanks to runoff over the next few days. Looks like it has an excellent shot at achieving normal elevation.

Couple of cool shots showing the lake level:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hefner051515.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hefner051515b.jpg

I'm guessing those are several days old. The lake level has been on an impressive march this week.

That's some really great looking red water :D

Glad to have it back though, no matter the color.

real easy to not click on threads

That's not really the point.

It's more about the fact that some posters here seem legitimately concerned that OKC may have an inadequate water supply, when if anything, this thread shows how ridiculous such a notion is. But whatevs.. continue live blogging the rain. At least the Canton folks who seemed to wish us ill for stealing "their" water seem to have moved on.

That's not really the point.

It's more about the fact that some posters here seem legitimately concerned that OKC may have an inadequate water supply, when if anything, this thread shows how ridiculous such a notion is. But whatevs.. continue live blogging the rain. At least the Canton folks who seemed to wish us ill for stealing "their" water seem to have moved on.

Wasn't it you who said to put trust in those people in paid positions to monitor and control the recent rains at our lakes? Do you not also trust those people in paid positions who are planning for OKC's long term water future by figuring out how to get more water from SE Oklahoma? That would lead me to believe that some think that in the long term we may not have adequate supply for anticipated growth.