View Full Version : So...have any of you spotted anyone carrying openly yet?



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MadMonk
11-08-2012, 09:46 PM
I've been keeping an eye open especially for this since the 1st, but I have yet to spot anyone openly carrying.

kevinpate
11-08-2012, 10:17 PM
Haven't even thought to look. Had enough on my mind lately I forgot it was going into effect this month until I saw a piece, on 9 I think it was, regarding a c-store owner that started carrying openly.

BBatesokc
11-09-2012, 06:42 AM
Seen a couple of business owners on the south side holstered up while working their register. Also saw an older guy wearing a pistol off SW 29th a few days ago. He looked to have gone shopping and was carrying items home on foot. Actually looked fine to me. That's a rough area and he didn't seem to be acting like the gun gave him an extra set of balls. I'm guessing he was 60-something and has probably had issues in that neighborhood before.

Of Sound Mind
11-09-2012, 06:47 AM
You mean, despite the prognostications, there's been no horrific descent into the old Wild West culture?

I'm shocked.

BBatesokc
11-09-2012, 06:51 AM
It is humorous to go back and read some of the nonsense some people posted in objection to open-carry. I have zero issue with people being against it, I just think some of the conclusions some people were drawing were simply head-shaking.

Of Sound Mind
11-09-2012, 07:18 AM
It is humorous to go back and read some of the nonsense some people posted in objection to open-carry. I have zero issue with people being against it, I just think some of the conclusions some people were drawing were simply head-shaking.
Agree 100%.

Roadhawg
11-09-2012, 08:07 AM
Seen a couple of business owners on the south side holstered up while working their register. Also saw an older guy wearing a pistol off SW 29th a few days ago. He looked to have gone shopping and was carrying items home on foot. Actually looked fine to me. That's a rough area and he didn't seem to be acting like the gun gave him an extra set of balls. I'm guessing he was 60-something and has probably had issues in that neighborhood before.


He probable fit right in lol

onthestrip
11-09-2012, 08:39 AM
You mean, despite the prognostications, there's been no horrific descent into the old Wild West culture?

I'm shocked.

First, its only been 9 days since it became legal.

Second, doesnt really matter to me that there hasnt been an incident yet because there was no good reason to enact this law. It was unnecessary. And dont say that it will prevent concealed carriers from having their weapon seen and getting in trouble. A) havent heard of anyone getting in trouble because their shirt lifted and someone saw their gun and B) get a better concealed holster if you are worried about that.

BBatesokc
11-09-2012, 09:08 AM
First, its only been 9 days since it became legal.

Second, doesnt really matter to me that there hasnt been an incident yet because there was no good reason to enact this law. It was unnecessary. And dont say that it will prevent concealed carriers from having their weapon seen and getting in trouble. A) havent heard of anyone getting in trouble because their shirt lifted and someone saw their gun and B) get a better concealed holster if you are worried about that.

You may not have heard about it, but it indeed did happen on several occasions. I've personally seen the reports - and while most were simply handled at the scene and a report forwarded to the DA's office for possible prosecution. I know of at least three incidents where an individual was arrested simply because their gun became accidentally exposed.

IYO there was no good reason, but obviously your opinion was in the minority. I already have a jogging holster, a traditional exposed holster and a concealed holster. I have no plans to use any off them, but, should the need arise, I already have them on hand. Also have a holster that mounts under the steering wheel. I don't even own a pistol - but my wife says I can borrow hers!

HewenttoJared
11-09-2012, 09:27 AM
Saw a guy in a Walmart on the first day. Literally Strutting. The cashiers were eyeing it.

Of Sound Mind
11-09-2012, 09:34 AM
First, its only been 9 days since it became legal.
So when do you anticipate the mayhem to begin?


Second, doesnt really matter to me that there hasnt been an incident yet because there was no good reason to enact this law. It was unnecessary.
As Brian mentioned, there is documented evidence to the contrary.


And dont say that it will prevent concealed carriers from having their weapon seen and getting in trouble. A) havent heard of anyone getting in trouble because their shirt lifted and someone saw their gun ...
Well, I guess your personal experience trumps the documented evidence.


...and B) get a better concealed holster if you are worried about that.
The fact is, the more concealed the holster is, the more its effectiveness is diminished in facilitating quick access to and drawing of the weapon at the split second when the NEED becomes apparent... time that can make all the difference in the world. But then you're not really interested in people's ability to protect themselves against those who have no concern on what the law is on carrying a weapon.

hrdware
11-09-2012, 10:37 AM
Aside from the media reports about the Oklahoma Open Carry Association (http://okoca.org) breakfast at Beverly's pancake house on the 1st, I haven't seen anyone other than the cops sporting an open carry rig. I have been carried open every day since the 1st.

I have not seen any women stamped or horses faint. I have not felt the need to practice my quick draw routine or play show and tell. I did take the opportunity to visit the small grocery store that channel 4 and 9 did a story on and tell them thank you for taking on the duty of their own protection. The person who was there was not open carrying at the time.

I have had no business owner or employee tell me I was unwelcome in their establishment. I do not go out of my way to go walking around places I do not normally go. That being said, I have been to OnCue, Walgreens, Arby's, Dicks Sporting Goods, Academy, BancFirst, Walmart, and Lowes.

I did approach and initiate a conversation with 2 police officers while open carry. The officers in question did not feel the need to draw down on me, prone me out, or ask for my permit.

Of Sound Mind
11-09-2012, 11:42 AM
I think the point some are making is, don't insult our intelligence. You may choose to use that excuse, but it is hardly a valid one.
The same could be said about the excuses proffered by opponents of the law.

hrdware
11-09-2012, 12:40 PM
Let's all be honest here. A lot of people simply want to carry openly. Ergo, let's change the law.

I'll agree with this 100%!!! IMO, open carry is much more comfortable than CC.

Of Sound Mind
11-09-2012, 12:49 PM
Let's all be honest here. A lot of people simply want to carry openly. Ergo, let's change the law.
I would agree with you that there are certainly a number of people who want to carry openly.

However, I know from personal experience and from conversations with a great many other concealed-carry license holders that a very small percentage ever wanted the law to pass so they could carry openly. Most said that even after Nov. 1st they would seldom, if ever, carry openly — count me among that significant majority. Most supported the passage for the very excuse you claim is "hardly a valid one." The way the law previously was written, the penalties were very real and could be quite steep — including the suspension of the license. Did it happen frequently? Not really. Did it happen? Yes.

If you don't accept that "excuse" as a valid one, then you are certainly entitled to that position/opinion. However, valid or not (in yours and others eyes), it was indeed a fundamental reason why it received such broad support from so many, even those who never have any intention of openly carrying.

FFLady
11-09-2012, 01:07 PM
It is humorous to go back and read some of the nonsense some people posted in objection to open-carry. I have zero issue with people being against it, I just think some of the conclusions some people were drawing were simply head-shaking.

I think it was the media that wanted some action. My husband carries (legally) all the time, he just won't flaunt it.....

OKCTalker
11-09-2012, 01:21 PM
With few exceptions, someone carrying openly is simply asking for a bad guy to pop him.

If I'm carrying openly while standing in line at the bank or a convenience store, and in walks a guy intending to rob the place, then I'm the FIRST guy he'll shoot, and I'll never see it coming.

If he's a smart bad guy, he'll see my weapon, turn around and find another place. But if he's on crack or desperate, he'll kill me, rob the place of a couple hundred bucks and be gone.

hrdware
11-09-2012, 02:17 PM
With few exceptions, someone carrying openly is simply asking for a bad guy to pop him.

If I'm carrying openly while standing in line at the bank or a convenience store, and in walks a guy intending to rob the place, then I'm the FIRST guy he'll shoot, and I'll never see it coming.

If he's a smart bad guy, he'll see my weapon, turn around and find another place. But if he's on crack or desperate, he'll kill me, rob the place of a couple hundred bucks and be gone.

Fortunately for me, it doesn't work that way. Bad guys aren't looking for law abiding citizens carrying guns. They are looking for uniforms and badges. No uniform and badge, they try and rob the place. The scenario you describe does not happen in the 43 other states that have open carry. Do you think criminals in OK are that much smarter than criminals in those other states?

Criminals tend to not attack people who they believe can defend themselves. The sight of a firearm means I have the means and capability of doing just that and most criminals will move to a softer target.

If a criminal is high on crack or that desperate, you stand as much chance of being killed if you are OC, CC, or No C.

kevinpate
11-09-2012, 03:21 PM
FWIW, 28 years of study, at times intense and at times casual, causes me to say, with a great deal of confidence, Oklahoma law breakers are most assuredly not brighter and craftier than law breakers elsewhere.

BBatesokc
11-09-2012, 03:59 PM
So wait, this law was passed because we have cops that make false arrests and judges that don't understand the law?

Brandishing a weapon and someone accidentally exposing one are so far from each other it isn't even funny. And if this is why, why didn't the law specifically address this problem? Make the language more clear. It isn't like we need open care to clarify what an accidental or unintentional display is.

I think the point some are making is, don't insult our intelligence. You may choose to use that excuse, but it is hardly a valid one.

Funny, I nor anyone else here I recall making that assertion. It is however ONE of the reasons I supported the law (even though I don't carry). Additionally, you make some pretty ridiculous assertions. The first that cops were making false arrests and judges didn't understand the law. We were actually tested over the language of the law during my CLEET certification and it was made clear to us that 'intent' to expose your weapon was NOT an element of the crime.

I also supported this law because I think its a right others should have - even if i never have any intention of exercising it.

Second, you imply the law was passed simply because alot of people wanted to openly carry..... yet..... virtually nobody here (or even the media) has seen anyone openly carry. Sort of flies in the face of your 'logic.'

I'm not insulting your intelligence.... I'm simply trying to locate it within the context of this debate.

Jim Kyle
11-09-2012, 10:10 PM
My father and my brother were both law enforcement. I've spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours in a cop car. I'm not a cop but I know enough to know that I can't imagine someone getting hauled off to jail for something like that (unless there is more to the story perhaps). I could see a citation?I can't say I've spent as many hours riding with officers, in my years as a police reporter, but I definitely saw enough rogue cops to believe in their existence. Yes, they're a very small minority, but almost every force of any appreciable size has at least one or two uniformed bullies. Such folk seem to just be looking for an excuse to flaunt their power. Most policemen whom I've met over the years are quite sincere in their desire to protect and serve, but the nature of their work tends to make them highly suspicious of anyone whom they do not already know well.

I have no particular dog in this fight; when I was accompanying officers on roadblocks, I carried a loaded .45 Colt Commander in my glovebox, and the LEOs with whom I worked were fully aware of that fact despite it being technically illegal -- this was more than 50 years ago, when any kind of carry was a violation of the statutes. If I felt a pressing need to do so again, I would not hesitate. To me, the law of self preservation trumps anything passed by a legislative body. However, I don't feel such a need, nor do I expect to...

WilliamTell
11-11-2012, 05:13 AM
I concealed carry but i fall into the category that we never needed this law. If you can afford a fire arm you should be able to afford a decent 20 dollar holster to keep it from showing. I've never had a problem keeping it concealed or have known anyone who has. Plus just look at all the options out there for smaller carry weapons, its a massive market. You can get a 9mm, 40 cal, and even a 45 in a small frame weapon. But then you have people screaming that they want to carry a 40 cal with 16 shot clip. Where the heck are you going that you need that or if your that bad of a shot you have no business in carrying - you arent a cop.

I've seen 1 older 300lb man open carrying at harbor freight and he was proudly standing there like a peacock making sure everyone could see him. He seemed more likely to die of a heart attack than some bad guy coming after him but i knew this law was going to be attractive to that type of people who are trying to show how bad ass they are. My main problem is that I have little kids and dont really like the idea of them seeing guns everywhere they go because they dont become 'dangerous' and if you own a weapon you know exactly what i mean. Even as an adult its very easy to forget how dangerous a handgun is when you are around them all the time.

Think about it this way. Growing up most of us saw people smoking everywhere. You couldnt go into a restaurant, store, or business with out seeing someone lighting up. Now you have a newer generation of kids who will literally ask what is that person doing, smoking is bad, why are they doing that. Do we really want to turn the world backwards where it becomes everyday that our kids see someone who isnt an authority figure with a weapon?

Very 3rd world country of us.

MadMonk
11-11-2012, 10:07 AM
LOL, that's does it; I'm removing our steak knives from the home because I don't want my kids to start playing with them because they see them often enough to become careless. With my luck, I'll come home one day and they'll be juggling them and throwing them at someone attached to a spinning wheel.

WilliamTell
11-11-2012, 11:01 AM
LOL, that's does it

I just think its backwards that with each handgun purchase you have to submit to the youth handgun safety act and are given a handgun lock (basically says if minor gets a hold of an unlocked one you are responsible - google it, if your a handgun owner then you already know about it) and then we implement a law where people can wear a deadly weapon in public as an fashion accessory?

That's why i posted about smoking. At one time it was common place and a person could do it anywhere in public so more people started smoking. Laws were enacted to take it out of public places and youth smoking is at the lowest levels its ever been. I just think we shouldn't be going out of our ways to glamorize and mainstream weapons in everyday life. Does anyone really need a hot pink weapon, pistol grips that are skulls, or be openly 'strapped' at target?

LOL, youth access to handguns, LOL...yeah that's never been a problem.

betts
11-11-2012, 12:17 PM
I've seen 1 older 300lb man open carrying at harbor freight and he was proudly standing there like a peacock making sure everyone could see him. He seemed more likely to die of a heart attack than some bad guy coming after him but i knew this law was going to be attractive to that type of people who are trying to show how bad ass they are.

"My gun is bigger than your gun." Or, "I've got one and you don't". Both are more inevitable reasons for the majority of people to carry guns than any "right" reason. I'm still not sure there's a right reason, but clearly no one has asked me. I also think our Founding Fathers, who feared very little more than they feared the uneducated masses, are likely rolling in their graves at how their Bill of Rights has been interpreted over the years.

bluedogok
11-11-2012, 12:23 PM
I just think its backwards that with each handgun purchase you have to submit to the youth handgun safety act and are given a handgun lock (basically says if minor gets a hold of an unlocked one you are responsible - google it, if your a handgun owner then you already know about it) and then we implement a law where people can wear a deadly weapon in public as an fashion accessory?
One is a federal Law, the other is a state law. Most federal gun laws are pushed by those big city politicians that already had city gun regulations in place in an effort to push their will onto others who do not agree with them.

ThomPaine
11-12-2012, 07:22 AM
I've seen 1 older 300lb man open carrying at harbor freight and he was proudly standing there like a peacock making sure everyone could see him. He seemed more likely to die of a heart attack than some bad guy coming after him but i knew this law was going to be attractive to that type of people who are trying to show how bad ass they are.

I immediately thought of this (300lb guy = bald guy):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkCqSHwhKVg

RadicalModerate
11-12-2012, 07:44 AM
"My Name is Nobody" . . . great movie.

I like this clip (especially up to the three minute mark):
qUPaigOxAi8

hrdware
11-12-2012, 08:39 AM
I just think its backwards that with each handgun purchase you have to submit to the youth handgun safety act and are given a handgun lock (basically says if minor gets a hold of an unlocked one you are responsible - google it, if your a handgun owner then you already know about it) and then we implement a law where people can wear a deadly weapon in public as an fashion accessory?

Actually we passed a law that allows people who have a Handgun License (formerly a Concealed Weapons Permit) to tuck their shirt in and not have to wear an additional cover garment. There is a reason this thread has moved away from the OP's question about how many open carriers you have seen into a debate about why the law was passed in the first place. Many people won't open carry. Those that do, do so for their own reasons but are still held to the same legal standards as those who conceal.


That's why i posted about smoking. At one time it was common place and a person could do it anywhere in public so more people started smoking. Laws were enacted to take it out of public places and youth smoking is at the lowest levels its ever been. I just think we shouldn't be going out of our ways to glamorize and mainstream weapons in everyday life. Does anyone really need a hot pink weapon, pistol grips that are skulls, or be openly 'strapped' at target?

As someone who open carries, I agree with you in that we should not be glamorizing the carrying of firearms, after all, what would Hollywood have left to do. As to your comment about being openly strapped at target, why not? If I am minding my own business I am certainly not glamorizing the carrying of a firearm....unless there is something glamorous about walking through the kids clothes that someone has not told me about. Aside from that, until I get my crystal ball fixed so as to know where and when criminals will strike, I will continue to carry a firearm for the protection of myself and my family. I may carry it open or I may carry it concealed, but now I have a choice about it.

WilliamTell
11-12-2012, 12:45 PM
As to your comment about being openly strapped at target, why not? If I am minding my own business I am certainly not glamorizing the carrying of a firearm....unless there is something glamorous about walking through the kids clothes that someone has not told me about. Aside from that, until I get my crystal ball fixed so as to know where and when criminals will strike, I will continue to carry a firearm for the protection of myself and my family. I may carry it open or I may carry it concealed, but now I have a choice about it.

I'm not going to waste a lot of time on this because there is no real discussion since the law has passed and neither of us are going to change our minds.

I like guns, own alot of them and plan to teach my kids how to use them when they are older but this sticks out in my mind.



But alarming statistics show that education about firearm safety is critical. About one-third of U.S. homes have firearms. Every two hours a child is killed with a gun in a homicide, suicide or unintentionally. A gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a friend or family member than a criminal. Meanwhile, depressed youths use guns more than any other means to commit suicide.

We can argue all day long but i really dont think that kids need to be exposed to firearms on a daily basis at the grocery store, retail shops, etc. Im not going to waste my time posting how much more likely a kid is to smoke when exposed to it, or to go over the speed limit if the cars around them are going over the limit, etc, etc, etc...

I just dont think its an all around great idea. You still have your gun and if you find it so inconveniencing to reach into your pocket than you have bigger threats to your health than some bad guy thats out to get you.

hrdware
11-12-2012, 01:20 PM
We can argue all day long but i really dont think that kids need to be exposed to firearms on a daily basis at the grocery store, retail shops, etc. Im not going to waste my time posting how much more likely a kid is to smoke when exposed to it, or to go over the speed limit if the cars around them are going over the limit, etc, etc, etc...

If kids do bad things because of bad examples, would it not also mean that they do good things because of good examples? My oldest started learning firearm safety when he was about 2, my other kids were a bit older but that was due to the situations my family was in at those respective times in our lives. I feel that firearm safety education should begin early and be reviewed often.

Many times kids only see guns in the movies and on TV. In these situations it seems to be the good guys and the bad guys that have them. The good guys are always some type of law enforcement or military. I feel that law abiding citizens carrying firearms is another way people can see that good guys (who are not police officers) can carry a firearm as well. It gives people a good example to look towards.

I have a problem with the statistical information you presented. This seems like the same argument opponents of the 2nd Amendment use...because of all these bad things, we need to remove all the guns and then everything will be great. Well....no...not really. If we get rid of all the guns, then firearm related deaths will go down, but people will just move to other ways to commit suicide and homicide.

Just the facts
11-12-2012, 01:31 PM
...and all this time I thought we needed justification FOR laws, not justification for not having laws. Do we start at freedom and restrict where necessary, or do we start at total restriction and only allow freedom where necessary?

RadicalModerate
11-12-2012, 01:55 PM
Outside of the City Limits of Piedmont, what sort of ticket would an adult/child get for openly carrying this in an approved crotch holster?

Just the facts
11-12-2012, 03:16 PM
A kid should take that to a public school and see what happens. It looks like a safe sex toy which is good. But it also looks like a gun which is bad. But it is pink, which is good. But is shoots a projectile, which is bad.

WilliamTell
11-30-2012, 01:44 PM
http://www.news9.com/story/20207304/parent-accused-of-attacking-high-school-principal-in-payne


YALE, Oklahoma -

Prosecutors have charged the parent of a Yale High School student accused of assaulting the principal in his office.

On November 12, Donald Lee Stobaugh, 46, of Jennings, went to the school to speak with principal Bobby Rose about the vandalism of a truck belonging to Stobaugh's son. The incident happened on school property.

Rose said Stobaugh walked into his office, demanded to have a private conversation, and shut the door. Rose said he did not want to speak with Stobaugh, and would handle the investigation on his own.

Rose claimed when he tried to open the door, Stobaugh pushed him and slammed his shoulder against the wall. Rose told police he immediately left his office, walked to Superintendent Steve Shank's office, and informed him of what happened. Shank called police.

Police spoke to Stobaugh, who said he never touched Rose. Stobaugh said Rose ran into him. He also said when Rose opened the door, it hit Stobaugh's foot, which pushed him into Rose.

Stobaugh has been charged him with assault and battery on a school official.

Before the incident in Rose's office, Stobaugh called the Yale Police Department on its recorded line. He asked a dispatcher if an officer was still at the school taking a report on the vandalism of his son's truck. When the dispatcher said the officer had already left, Stobaugh responded, "I guess that's why they passed the open carry law, so people like us can take care of these things ourselves."

This is what so many of us were talking about.

WilliamTell
11-30-2012, 01:50 PM
Watch the video - she says her grandson is paranoid and wants to be prepared for the war.....

Police: OKC Man Tries To Vote While Openly Carrying Handgun - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/20153306/police-okc-man-tries-to-vote-with-handgun-hanging-from-belt)


OKLAHOMA CITY -

An Oklahoma City man is behind bars for expressing his right to openly carry in the wrong place. Police arrested 23-year-old Ethan Sisson after they say he tried to vote with a handgun holstered around his waist.

Sisson is accused of violating Oklahoma's new "Open Carry" law. Police say he had a handgun on his hip when he tried to vote in the elections two weeks ago.

Police say Sisson was turned away, but returned two hours later, wearing a disguise.

Court records show after Sisson voted, he took off his disguise, and showed the election monitor his handgun. Sisson told the inspector it was his right to have the gun with him. He was then ordered to leave.

Police want Sisson charged with unlawful carry in certain places, a misdemeanor.

Sisson's grandmother, Jean Sisson, says Sisson was just standing up for a principle he believes in.

"He would do anything for anybody that he could," she said.

Sisson is being held at the Oklahoma County Jail on $4,000 bond.


Hrdware this is what I was talking about. I've said it before, the only people that wanted the open carry law are people who want to walk around and try to prove something to everyone else.

If someone has the personality that they need to prove and show everyone around them that they have a deadly weapon, then chances are they are the exact type of people who we dont need carrying weapons. There is nothing responsible or safe about open carry - YOU ARE NOT A COP.

OKCTalker
11-30-2012, 02:14 PM
As someone who open carries...

You do understand that if you're in the convenience store when a robber walks in, you'll be the first one he shoots? Your presence may dissuade some of the bad guys from robbing the place, but the worst of them (stoned, desperate or just plain nuts) will get you out of the way and then clean out the till.

hrdware
11-30-2012, 02:19 PM
You do understand that if you're in the convenience store when a robber walks in, you'll be the first one he shoots? Your presence may dissuade some of the bad guys from robbing the place, but the worst of them (stoned, desperate or just plain nuts) will get you out of the way and then clean out the till.

Find me one instance where this has happened in the 43 other states that allow open carry, some since statehood. I'll wait....just one instance of an open carrier being the first one shot because they were carrying a firearm. Find something to base your opinion on. Stoned, desperate, or just plain nuts aren't normal thinkers.

Opencarry.org is a national forum for open carry...no one in any state has been able to find one of these stories....if one existed it would be posted and discussed.

hrdware
11-30-2012, 02:29 PM
Watch the video - she says her grandson is paranoid and wants to be prepared for the war.....

Hrdware this is what I was talking about. I've said it before, the only people that wanted the open carry law are people who want to walk around and try to prove something to everyone else.

If someone has the personality that they need to prove and show everyone around them that they have a deadly weapon, then chances are they are the exact type of people who we dont need carrying weapons. There is nothing responsible or safe about open carry - YOU ARE NOT A COP.

I have nothing to prove to anyone and I open carry....well actually I would like to prove to the criminal element I am not an easy target.

The "disguise" Mr. Sisson wore when he returned consisted of a baseball hat and a jacket.

Mr. Sisson, after reading the Oklahoma Self Defense Act, believed he was not committing any crime when he went to vote.

Aside from the story you posted, are you implying that because I choose to open carry I must have something to prove??? And because I choose to open carry I must have some mental defect that should automatically preclude me from carrying a firearm?? How is it that after carrying a firearm for 14 years, the act of tucking my shirt in makes me irresponsible and unsafe?

I have never claimed to be a cop nor do I intend to try and act like a cop. Police officers are paid to put themselves into dangerous situations, I am not.

WilliamTell
11-30-2012, 02:34 PM
I have nothing to prove to anyone and I open carry....well actually I would like to prove to the criminal element I am not an easy target.

Aside from the story you posted, are you implying that because I choose to open carry I must have something to prove??? And because I choose to open carry I must have some mental defect that should automatically preclude me from carrying a firearm?? How is it that after carrying a firearm for 14 years, the act of tucking my shirt in makes me irresponsible and unsafe?



Both of these recent oklahoma stories point out the people who are open carrying are using it for intimidation and defiance. They are dangerous people and this law brings them out of the wood work.

They are threatening innocent public school employees, students, 911 operators, church volunteers, voters, and designated voting representatives.

Dubya61
11-30-2012, 02:43 PM
Both of these recent oklahoma stories point out the people who are open carrying are using it for intimidation and defiance. They are dangerous people and this law brings them out of the wood work.

They are threatening innocent public school employees, students, 911 operators, church volunteers, voters, and designated voting representatives.

So that kind of proves that the law had a beneficial unintended consequence, eh? Now these two loose screws have been identified and can be given help.

hrdware
11-30-2012, 02:44 PM
Both of these recent oklahoma stories point out the people who need are attracted to this law are using it as intimidation and defiance. They are dangerous people and this law brings them out of the wood work.

They are threatening innocent people in public school employees, students, 911 operators, voters, church members, and designated voting representatives.

Neither story mentioned either person threatening anyone.

The story about the father said he told police something to the effect of, "Guess that's why they passed this open carry law so we can take care of these things ourselves." Who did he threaten?

No one reported that Mr. Sisson threatened them. He showed up to vote, no where in the story did it say he threatened anyone.

Again I ask, after 14 years of carrying a firearm, because I tuck in my shirt, why am I suddenly irresponsible and unsafe?

WilliamTell
11-30-2012, 02:47 PM
Neither story mentioned either person threatening anyone.


Conversation is ending because you are rejecting reality.

If a 46 year old man can go into a public school, force his way into the principals office, threaten the principal, get into a physical fight with the pricipal when he is asked to leave, have staff running to call the cops, then call 911 himself and directly says to the operator "I guess that's why they passed the open carry law, so people like us can take care of these things ourselves." And that is not threatening someone?

You are either stupid or foolish - that in itself is dangerous - and yes You do not need to be carrying a loaded firearm.

MadMonk
11-30-2012, 03:07 PM
I have nothing to prove to anyone and I open carry....well actually I would like to prove to the criminal element I am not an easy target.

Don't you understand hrdware? Two anecdotal stories represent everyone who was for this law. You, me, and all the other thousands of Oklahomans who support it. Also, disregard that a gun wasn't even involved in the Yale story, only the mere mention of open carry in a threatening tone of voice.

WilliamTell
11-30-2012, 03:18 PM
Also, disregard that a gun wasn't even involved in the Yale story, only the mere mention of open carry in a threatening tone of voice.

If a 46 year old man can go into a public school, force his way into the principals office, threaten the principal, get into a physical fight with the pricipal when he is asked to leave, have staff running to call the cops, then call 911 himself and directly says to the operator "I guess that's why they passed the open carry law, so people like us can take care of these things ourselves." And that is not threatening someone?

You are either stupid or foolish - that in itself is dangerous - and yes You do not need to be carrying a loaded firearm.

kevinpate
11-30-2012, 07:21 PM
WilliamTell, the delusion just might be yours. The call that disturbs you so took place before the upset parent went to the school. So, even though he had already made statement, that seemingly has you on the verge of eating kittens to calm your tummy as you imply others are unbalanced, he went to the school, unarmed, and neither open carry nor concealed carry had anything to do with it.

You need to find a new outrage. Your present rant is about as on point as someone hollaring about public nudity at an Amish barn raising simply because some of those folks strip down and shower at home in their own privies.

hrdware
11-30-2012, 08:06 PM
Conversation is ending because you are rejecting reality.

If a 46 year old man can go into a public school, force his way into the principals office, threaten the principal, get into a physical fight with the pricipal when he is asked to leave, have staff running to call the cops, then call 911 himself and directly says to the operator "I guess that's why they passed the open carry law, so people like us can take care of these things ourselves." And that is not threatening someone?

You are either stupid or foolish - that in itself is dangerous - and yes You do not need to be carrying a loaded firearm.

I am only rejecting your twist on reality. First, he did not force his way into the principals office...no where in the story did it say that. Second, nowhere in the story did it say he threatened the principal. He did physically assault the principal, but I would not call it a fight. The staff did not run to call the cops, the principal walked to the superintendents office, reported what happened and the superintendent called. The 911 call was made before he went unarmed to the school.

He made an offhand comment that did not threaten anyone. All I see is you attempting to say he did. Then because I don't agree with you, you call me names and say I'm dangerous.

Your points have been disproved so you result to name calling.

WilliamTell
12-01-2012, 05:49 AM
that seemingly has you on the verge of eating kittens to calm your tummy as you imply others are unbalanced, he went to the school, unarmed, and neither open carry nor concealed carry had anything to do with it.

If you read the story his remark at the during the end of the 911 call had to do exactly with open carry. Might help if you actually took the effort to read the story before you join the conversation.

Stobaugh responded, "I guess that's why they passed the open carry law, so people like us can take care of these things ourselves

Back on subject - as i originally said, this law really show places oklahoma legislators inability to do anything worthwhile. We never needed this law and all that it caters to is hot heads who want to go out of their ways and prove something to everyone else. After a 20 year old was asked to leave his gun in the car if he wanted to vote he got into an argument, stormed out, came back in a disguise, voted, then proceeded to tell everyone at the voting center that he still had his weapon on him and that it was his right- why?

A hot head went into a school, got into a physical altercation with the principal then told the 911 operator that open carry will let him take care of things like that - why?

Each of these guys went out of there ways to provoke a reaction and put themselves into stupid situations. Its just not needed.

hrdware
12-01-2012, 06:31 AM
A hot head went into a school, got into a physical altercation with the principal then told the 911 operator that open carry will let him take care of things like that - why?

If you are going to continue to use this story where someone said, "...open carry..." and then did noting with a firearm, at least start quoting it correctly. It has already been pointed out multiple times that the 911 call happened before he went to the school, not after. Quoting the article correctly will have your arguments a bit more weight even though this story had noting to do with anyone open carrying.

OKCisOK4me
12-01-2012, 09:04 AM
Yes and it reminded me that I need to have a sign at the entrance of our store reminding people to keep their guns inside their car unless they're in uniform and on duty.

PennyQuilts
12-01-2012, 09:24 AM
"My gun is bigger than your gun." Or, "I've got one and you don't". Both are more inevitable reasons for the majority of people to carry guns than any "right" reason. I'm still not sure there's a right reason, but clearly no one has asked me. I also think our Founding Fathers, who feared very little more than they feared the uneducated masses, are likely rolling in their graves at how their Bill of Rights has been interpreted over the years.

I can't even get into your head on that statement. I've been around guys who carry for ages and that isn't any part of it. I mean, in my experience, of the things that could inspire someone to carry, that isn't even on the radar. Forgive me, but that sounds like fantasy. What I've seen is that if someone is carrying and meets someone else of like mind, they immediately feel like they "get" each other and have something in common. Next thing you know, they are gabbing happily like a couple of girls in middle school.

Perhaps my experience is just different than yours but, would you mind telling me if you've actually observed or experienced the sort of dynamic you described? Based on my experience, yours honestly sounds like a theory based on theology rather than anything observable.

PennyQuilts
12-01-2012, 09:28 AM
Parent Accused Of Attacking High School Principal In Payne Count - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/20207304/parent-accused-of-attacking-high-school-principal-in-payne)



This is what so many of us were talking about.
What would open carry have to do with any of that? He could do the same thing with concealed carry and be just as much of a jerk.

PennyQuilts
12-01-2012, 09:38 AM
I don't carry much but as a female, I'm especially happy with the new law because traditional holsters often don't work as well with women. Under the CC law, you can't wear a holster that shows the outline of a gun and we women typically have thinner fabric and no deep pockets on our clothing or long shirts to cover it the way you guys have (and that is irritating because it's hard to carry a cell phone, too). Yes, I could put it in my purse but what if I'm not carrying a purse? I have a flashbang holster I can use in the winter but don't like to use that in the summer because it is obvious there is a gun there - and it's hot, besides. For me, the open carry law really gives me some legal cover from accidentally brandishing. I wouldn't brandish on purpose and, like I said, I rarely carry, but for women, this helps.

RadicalModerate
12-01-2012, 10:02 AM
Do you suppose that if the kid in Piedmont or his mother would have been charged with "accidentally brandishing" the results of that whole debacle might have been different?

I have to admit here that I'm glad I personally put aside firearms several decades ago. I'm afraid that an incident that occurred yesterday might have ended on a more complicated note than it did had I had anything other than a tire iron--in reserve, just in case--to produce.

WilliamTell
12-01-2012, 10:45 AM
What would open carry have to do with any of that? He could do the same thing with concealed carry and be just as much of a jerk.

I agree and chances are he was a jerk in his day to day dealings before the law. My concern about the law is that it really caters to the borderline people who are already hot heads. The guys quip to the 911 operator really gives a deeper look inside of some peoples reasoning (not all but some). He was mad about his kids car being broke into - ok, but what does that have to do with going off on a an open carry rant to a 911 operator and about how the law will now let him take care of the problem himself?

What i've been saying all along - you arent magically a cop now that there is a law that allows you to show a weapon.

kevinpate
12-01-2012, 11:34 AM
If you read the story his remark at the during the end of the 911 call had to do exactly with open carry. Might help if you actually took the effort to read the story before you join the conversation. ...


That the quote came at the end of the story doesn't mean it was last in the timeline.

Sheesh. End of story is where items of lesser import tend to land. But hey, since you wanna cover reading it, let's do so.



...
Before
the incident in Rose's office,
Stobaugh called
the Yale Police Department
on its recorded line.
He asked a dispatcher
if an officer was still at the school taking a report on the vandalism of his son's truck.
When the dispatcher
said the officer had already left,
Stobaugh responded,
"I guess that's why they passed the open carry law, so people like us can take care of these things ourselves."


Was it an ignorant statement to make? Certainly.
Does it support your delusions? No.
See,
after
making a dumb statement,
he then ended up at school, and omg whadda ya know, nada about guns occurred.

If anything, it makes your angry paranoia all the more obvious rather than offer it any support at all.

Reading can be fun, even for non-carriers like us.

And that ends our reading lesson for today.

WilliamTell
12-01-2012, 11:59 AM
If anything, it makes your angry paranoia all the more obvious rather than offer it any support at all.


How do I have angry paranoia?

The guy calls 911 and says he's going to a school with a weapon and the new law allows him to 'take care of it 'himself' (which it doesnt). Then he shows up at the school and starts a **** storm...

Once again - If that isnt a threat then i dont know what is and obviously the cops think the same since he's in jail now.

WilliamTell
12-01-2012, 12:16 PM
I had some internet gold to share from news 9 from the very first night open carry started....


I have a concealed carry license and this is what i was afraid of. By the pictures these guys are more likely to be killed by what they are having for breakfast than some bad guy that’s out to get them. But hey, at least they now can let the public know that they are willing to kill to protect their lives as long as it doesn’t require eating right or occasional exercise.

3006

3007


Gun Owners Celebrate New Open Carry Law With Breakfast - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/19976148/gun-owners-celebrate-new-open-carry-law-with-breakfast)

kevinpate
12-01-2012, 12:32 PM
How do I have angry paranoia?

The guy calls 911 and says he's going to a school with a weapon ...

No, he didn't say that. Sheesh. You don't like open carry. Fine. But stop making stuff up.

As for him being in jail, if he was arrested on allegedly making a threat relating to open carry and self help, that would mesh with your point.

If instead he was arrested for a physical assault he is alleged to have committed against the school official, then it has nothing to do with your open carry fit and thus, no, the cops wouldn't think the same thing as you do.

Hmmm, what was it they said in the story. Oh yeah, the article noted that


...
charged him
with
assault and battery on a school official.

Nada about gun, open or concealed, mentioned in the formal misdemeanor charge. If you have doubt on that, you can read the charging document online.
Oh, the sentence that causes you such concern was a part of the officer's affidavit, and thus known to the folks who made the decision to charge only the actual altercation, not the telephone statement made at an earlier time to a dispatcher.

He received a six month deferral period for sentencing and a requirement to pay costs and do 10 hours of community service. m-12-1732, payne.

RadicalModerate
12-01-2012, 01:37 PM
So, I stop at the closest convenience store (a.k.a. "Stop-N-Rob") to the house to put a little gas in the black, Chevy S-10 pickup so I can make the drive out to my mother's house about 30 min. east of town. A lot of folks might never stop in here on account of it looks almost as "sketchy" as that place on the N.E. corner of Western and Hefner, but it's my "go-to-place" for various items even if the owners aren't "Traditionally American" so-to speak. I'm headed out east because mom recently underwent some surgery and I want to bring her some of the food left over from the most recent experiment with Roasted Chicken (sort of bland, but not too bland).
As this fuel stop has a poorly designed parking lot--but not as bad as the one at the 7-Eleven at Britton and Penn--I try to be sure not to pull the truck so far up next to the pumps as to prevent the vehicle parked right in front of the store from easily backing out.

Since I want to pick up a couple of items, in addition to the fuel, I opt not to pay at the pump but, instead, go inside. There is a young female at the counter who seems to be taking an exceptionally long time to complete her lottery ticket transaction (this is the day AFTER The Big Lottery Winz) so I wait, semi-patiently, to make my purchase. I return to the pumps, take off the gas cap, tap the proper "Grade Selection" button and prepare to insert the hose when the truck suddenly rocks as if there was an earthquake happening . . . or sumpin'. =)

It only takes about 1.5 seconds to realize that, despite my best efforts, the [drivingly-challenged] [putz] behind the wheel of the Acura of previous concern had managed to back into my vehicle.
"REALLY???" I say, in a manner implying clearly [you stupid, m-----fuc.n' cocks---n' moron] without actually sayng it.

I place the nozzle back in its holster, not giving a second thought to how this might affect my fuel purchase and walk to the front of my vehicle to survey the damage. I am hoping it didn't involve the radiator on account of that would interfere with my immediate mission of going out to see my 86 year old mother and bring her some lunch.

"Hold Up" I say as the other vehicle begins to move forward. "Really???" I say, again, this time right next to the "driver's" side window of the offender's vehicle. A quick glance reveals only scuffing on the right front corner of the bumper on my truck. I might add here that the truck is fully paid for and later declared "totaled" due to unexpected hail damage from the most recent vagarie of nature back in May on account of for some inexplicable reason we continued to carry comprehensive insurance on a paid for vehicle.

A young man, about six-foot three and skinny as a rail whose ancestors apparently at one time in the distant past resided on what used to be called "The Dark Continent" unfolds himself from the vehicle and starts in with the excuses: "How you 'spect me to see that little truck?"

As angry and non-plussed as I am at that moment, I am thankful for the years spent as an Instructor in an institute for "at-risk" youth. (And, just so you know, I am a stocky, GrayDude-Bearded ex-Biker of the Viking Persuasion except after Christianity =)

"Are you telling me you can't see this truck?" I reply.

"I just has this little rear-view mirror an . . ."

I cut him off at the pass: "Are you telling me that you can't see this truck?"

"Sheet . . . You doesn't have to come up on me like that . . ." he excusifies.

"'Come up on you' . . ? You just backed into me. You can't even back out of a parking space without hitting something . . .?" I reply, without sharing my thoughts involving snapping him like a friggin' twig.

"Yo' vehicle ain't even got no damage . . ." he says, indicating the slightly caved-in and scratched up rear quarter-panel on his car.

"'No damage'? What's THIS?" I say, indicating the scuffed bumper.

At just this moment, the same young lady who was previously holding up the flow of commerce at the counter inside, emerges from the passenger side of the vehicle and says, "I'm so sorry . . . This is my car and he's just driving it . . ." It is then that I notice the Lousiana license plate.

"Oh . . . 'LOUISIANA' . . ." I say, as I begin to write down the tag number. "Just go on. I think we're done."

Her designated "driver" is still standing there, in all of his lanky, punk-ass, loud-mouthed majesty, exercising his vocal-cords if not his brain, as she and I both suggest that he get back in the car. He does, yet continues to run his mouth as I continue to note the license plate number.

"Just GO . . ." I say. "If you just GO NOW I won't have to call the police."

He finally shuts his mouth, I look at him and say, "Are you OK to drive?"

He nods. They leave. I put some gasoline in the tank and head 30 minutes east for a nice visit with a member of The Greatest Generation.

I actually do keep a tire iron handy, just in case. I honestly hope that the young lady in this account of actual events has better luck with The Lottery than with her choice of significant others. And I still respect my choice of limiting my options in these situations, vis-a-vis firearms.

However: I think that reasonable people, as Americans, have every right to exercise Civil Rghts within in this context. I am hopeful that we pick the battles and targets carefully and accurately.
And I hope we all have a good lawyers and a qualified jurors.