If a 46 year old man can go into a public school, force his way into the principals office, threaten the principal, get into a physical fight with the pricipal when he is asked to leave, have staff running to call the cops, then call 911 himself and directly says to the operator "I guess that's why they passed the open carry law, so people like us can take care of these things ourselves." And that is not threatening someone?

You are either stupid or foolish - that in itself is dangerous - and yes You do not need to be carrying a loaded firearm.
Calm down son. Go back and read and realize that I didn't say they weren't threatening. In fact I used that very word to describe their tone. The fact that you get so pissy and insulting means you have nothing else of value to offer to this discussion. Its probably a good thing you are so against carrying your weapon, as you don't seem to have the self control and maturity to handle the responsibility.

Calm down son. Go back and read and realize that I didn't say they weren't threatening. In fact I used that very word to describe their tone. The fact that you get so pissy and insulting means you have nothing else of value to offer to this discussion. Its probably a good thing you are so against carrying your weapon, as you don't seem to have the self control and maturity to handle the responsibility.

Come join the conversation. If you read back through the thread I said in my very first post that I concealed carry. I just have an issue with people who interpret the law that they now are an honorary law enforcement officer because now they can display their weapon to the public. This type of law only attracts hot heads who have something to prove or those that are too obese to conceal a weapon - I'm sure that includes some here.

Come join the conversation. If you read back through the thread I said in my very first post that I concealed carry. I just have an issue with people who interpret the law that they now are an honorary law enforcement officer because now they can display their weapon to the public. This type of law only attracts hot heads who have something to prove or those that are too obese to conceal a weapon - I'm sure that includes some here.

DUDE! . . . You got me . . . (i'm the guy on the right except for i don't wear Henry "Once Upon The Time In The West" Fonda black proto-thug dusters, nor do i carry firearms concealed or otherwise =)

Which, once again, does not mean that I don't respect the right of other folks to do so. OK . . . I will admit that I'm a bit concerned about The Wrongs to Bear Arms, but that is probably a different thread. =)

Edited to Add--Actually, I'm more like the guy in the middle except with more hair. Nice shot! (cough, cough) =)

Just out of curiosity . . . Isn't it a bit of a challenge to attempt to conceal a Swiss Longbow? Or do you just like The Lone Ranger theme a lot and apples not so much . . .?


Provided, as a PSA, for the Visual/Auditory--as compared to Kinesthetic--Learner and for obscure reference clarifiction purposes at no charge:
hxIuIxqo2So

Want to know whats really funny. The guy in the first picture i posted shows a Ruger P95 from Bass Pro, that has 15 round clip +1 in the chamber. Then he has a cheap Academy Sports holster that has another 15 rounds spare clip in it. So this guy who is easily 100lbs overweight is sooo concerned with his life that he has to carry 30+ rounds of ammo locked and loaded ready to blow bad guys away - but in the same sentence will sit there and continue to gorge himself at a late night dinner while he is with his buddies celebrating open carry.

Obese Hotheads are the only people this law caters too.

3010

Nope. Have not seen anyone yet. But I don't get out and mingle much.

Obese Hotheads are the only people this law caters too.
....or someone who empties out the money in vending machines in certain areas of OKC.
That is the only person that I know of who will openly carry, he is also ex-MP (Army) and ex-LEO and is in favor of open carry.

In reference to the thread title question, I went to a party on election night where a few guys were open carrying.

Come join the conversation. If you read back through the thread I said in my very first post that I concealed carry. I just have an issue with people who interpret the law that they now are an honorary law enforcement officer because now they can display their weapon to the public. This type of law only attracts hot heads who have something to prove or those that are too obese to conceal a weapon - I'm sure that includes some here.
I would have the same issue and that's not what carrying your weapon is about (as you should well know if you paid even the slightest attention in your CC class). Nor is it what this law is about. Your have a paranoid, delusional interpretation that, because what amounts to a few braggadocios deciding that their gun makes them look cool, and strut around a bit, that this law somehow caters to them. Instead of realizing how wrong you are and moving on, you continue repeating the same misinformed statements about hot heads (and now overweight people) and are insulting the other 99.99% of us that are in no way like that and yet support the law for valid, sensible reasons.

The topic of this thread asked a question concerning seeing anyone openly carrying. The fact that there have been so few reports of people carrying and even fewer of them causing a problem - other that to offend a few delicate sensibilities - indicates to me that despite all your hand wringing and worrying over roving groups of wanna-be cops coming out of the woodwork, this law is a good thing. It makes carrying concealed more convenient and less worrysome, gives the option to open carry for those of us who have CC permits, and allows for the sensible notion that you should be able to openly carry your weapon on your own property - permit or no. Your whole premise of what this law is about is patently false and has been proven incorrect. Move along now, nothing more to see here (oops, there was a bit of wanna-be cop showing just then wasn't there?) :D

Want to know whats really funny. The guy in the first picture i posted shows a Ruger P95 from Bass Pro, that has 15 round clip +1 in the chamber. Then he has a cheap Academy Sports holster that has another 15 rounds spare clip in it. So this guy who is easily 100lbs overweight is sooo concerned with his life that he has to carry 30+ rounds of ammo locked and loaded ready to blow bad guys away - but in the same sentence will sit there and continue to gorge himself at a late night dinner while he is with his buddies celebrating open carry.

Obese Hotheads are the only people this law caters too.

3010

. . . And the only record in his record collection is a broken one featuring train horns.

Yes and it reminded me that I need to have a sign at the entrance of our store reminding people to keep their guns inside their car unless they're in uniform and on duty.

Does this mean that if an officer walks into your store you will ask them if they are on duty and if they say "no" you will tell them they are not allowed to carry a firearm in your store?

If the above doesn't, hopefully this will: Open Carry Hardee's Incident (part 1) - YouTube (http://youtu.be/UqpjWnQjC5s)

I hope all businesses make a choice and put up proper signage (as they see fit).

While the open carrier was well within the law for the state of Alabama, I feel he handled the situation poorly, as well as his family members. There was no need for them to raise their voices and doing so makes them look irrational. Once it was apparent that the "ex-cop" guy in the video was going to be belligerent, the conversation should have been over and he should have been ignored.

Conversation is ending because you are rejecting reality.
Pot. Kettle. Black.

Does this mean that if an officer walks into your store you will ask them if they are on duty and if they say "no" you will tell them they are not allowed to carry a firearm in your store?

One would hope that an off duty police officer would respect a store owners signage.

One would hope that an off duty police officer would respect a store owners signage.

One would hope any officer would obey laws as well, but I routinely get passed by officers on the interstate who are not running with lights and sirens.

One would hope any officer would obey laws as well, but I routinely get passed by officers on the interstate who are not running with lights and sirens.

Yes, unfortunately I do too.

Who do you trust when you can't trust the police to uphold the law?

this law is a good thing.

Internet hat off for a moment.

I obviously dont think the law is the end of the world. But till this day I havent really heard any good argument (besides the one you posted about having a weapon out on your own property) that truly support open carry. I just get a massive kick out of people screaming and yelling about how neutered they were by the concealed portion of the past law. Seriously, how freaking hard is it for you to reach into your own pocket?

Come on.

The only other aspects that ive seen (as i said earlier) are people like the man pictured, that are so obese that they have a hard time concealing, people who want to strut around, or (also as the man pictured) people who want to carry a huge full sized weapon with 30 rounds?

One would hope any officer would obey laws as well, but I routinely get passed by officers on the interstate who are not running with lights and sirens.

Were they at least doing this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saIXzCoGHbU

Internet hat off for a moment.

I obviously dont think the law is the end of the world. But till this day I havent really heard any good argument (besides the one you posted about having a weapon out on your own property) that truly support open carry. I just get a massive kick out of people screaming and yelling about how neutered they were by the concealed portion of the past law. Seriously, how freaking hard is it for you to reach into your own pocket?

Grow up you big fat cry babies.

The only other aspects that ive seen (as i said earlier) are people like the man pictured, that are so obese that they have a hard time concealing, people who want to strut around, or (also as the man pictured) people who want to carry a huge full sized weapon with 30 rounds?

And again your reasoning results to personal attacks.

As already mentioned, carrying a firearm on your own property with or without a license. Not having to worry about the wind, blowing a cover garment. Hot having to worry about a cover garment riding up when you reach for something. Not having to worry about having to wear a cover garment. Being able to take a jacket off when sitting down to eat. Disabled persons who could have a hard time concealing. Women who don't want to carry in their purse (women's clothing is generally a tighter fit than a man's). Comfort, I can now tuck my shirt in so I don't have to get rubbed if I'm not wearing 2 shirts.

I don't pocket carry, I find it cumbersome and don't like the extra weight in my pockets. I also don't carry IWB, don't want to have to buy pants an extra size larger than I need. I carry a full size 45 OWB, always have...that's what is most comfortable to me.

In today's paper Business owners approach open carry law differently, many wait and see | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/many-oklahoma-business-owners-wait-and-see-on-open-carry-law/article/3733761)

Not having to worry about the wind, blowing a cover garment. Hot having to worry about a cover garment riding up when you reach for something. Not having to worry about having to wear a cover garment. Being able to take a jacket off when sitting down to eat. Disabled persons who could have a hard time concealing. Women who don't want to carry in their purse (women's clothing is generally a tighter fit than a man's). Comfort, I can now tuck my shirt in so I don't have to get rubbed if I'm not wearing 2 shirts.

I don't pocket carry, I find it cumbersome and don't like the extra weight in my pockets. I also don't carry IWB, don't want to have to buy pants an extra size larger than I need. I carry a full size 45 OWB, always have...that's what is most comfortable to me.


Most of those are bs and you and I both know it. So, having to buy pants larger, what did you do for the last 10-15 years?

O my. The inconvenience of pocket weight what ever shall we do - are you really that feeble, hard to imagine you operating a weapon with a 4-5lb trigger since you have such a hard time carrying around a few pounds in your pocket ?

Whatever happened to other men actually acting like men.

Most of those are bs and you and I both know it. So, having to buy pants larger, what did you do for the last 10-15 years?

O my. The inconvenience of pocket weight what ever shall we do - are you really that feeble, hard to imagine you operating a weapon with a 4-5lb trigger since you have such a hard time carrying around a few pounds in your pocket ?

Whatever happened to other men actually acting like men.

They are only BS because you see them that way. I have always had choices on how to carry and I chose to carry OWB. Now I can tuck my shirt in and you don't like the fact that people can do that. Surely it must be more than the 1/16 inch of fabric covering my firearm that has kept us safe all these years.

Now I can tuck my shirt in and you don't like the fact that people can do that. Surely it must be more than the 1/16 inch of fabric covering my firearm that has kept us safe all these years.

You could always tuck your shirt in, its called using a pocket.

The second part is exactly my point. Some people chose to act that they were completely neutered because a piece of fabric separated them from their weapon. As i said before, how hard is it to reach into your own pocket?

Unless you are into skinny jeans. Then i completely understand.

3012

You could always tuck your shirt in, its called using a pocket.

The second part is exactly my point. Some people chose to act that they were completely neutered because a piece of fabric separated them from their weapon. As i said before, how hard is it to reach into your own pocket?

Unless you are into skinny jeans. Then i completely understand.

3012

What part of "I don't like pocket carry" are you not getting? I chose a different style of carry that would not allow me to tuck my shirt in. It was more comfortable to me than pocket carry.

If you like it, and you pocket carry, great. But don't tell me I should pocket carry when I'm not a fan of it. I've tried it several times and I just plain old don't like it.

The "fear" factor isn't hard to grasp here guys.

If someone walked onto a train with a machete strapped to his side, would you feel all at ease?

It is a little disingenuous to call people overly sensitive because they feel uneasy about seeing weapons that are pretty much exclusively used for violent purposes (justified or not) openly "brandished".

That is my main gripe. I don't think we benefit as a society when violent weapons are commonplace in public places.

I've seen enough old western movies. ;-)



PS this is coming from a combat vet. So please, please don't assume I'm somehow afraid of guns. It is all about context.

You are correct, the fear factor isn't hard to see. Most people will be afraid of anything that doesn't fit their perception of "normal", however everyone is different and perceives things differently. Most people wouldn't even notice the machete strapped on to someones side.

I have been carrying open since 1 November. I have had 2 people comment on it, and neither to me. First was about a 4 year old behind me in line at the pharmacy...pointed it out to his dad. Second was about a 6 year old who was standing in line behind me at Subway. He said something to his mom who then asked if he was "freaked out no that he new it was there" to which he told her no. I can't believe that the majority of people saw my firearm and just chose to not say anything about it.

By definition, in order to brandish a firearm, one would have to walk around with their hip stuck out, wiggling it around in order to draw attention to it. Carrying a firearm in a holster, minding your own business is not brandishing. If it were, we would have some serious inconsistencies in our law.

I don't see an issue with weapons being commonplace in public area. An armed society is a polite society. We have become so desensitized to the criminal element we don't bat an eye at that any longer so it will eventually get to the point that no one will care about open carry any more either.

I don't think it harms society at all to become more comfortable with the sight of ordinary citizens enjoying the freedom to carry their weapon without fear of government reprisals. The more comfortable society becomes with the sight of weapons being handled responsibility, the better.

The problem is that so many people in society are conditioned to fear the sight of a weapon, regardless of whether its under the control of a responsible person or not.

But this isn't about need, its about the freedom to do as you please as long as it doesn't harm others. I don't need a pair of nickel plated .45s on each hip, but if I want to carry them in a peaceful, nonthreatening manner, who are you (you as in society) to tell me I can't?

Its sad that society wants to go in the direction that forces conformity upon those who are doing no harm to others, or treat grown adults like they are children that need protection from themselves.

If I saw someone waiving around a gun like a maniac, talking loud, acting in a hostile manner, acting the fool, etc., it would make me nervous as all get out that he had a gun. And I think that is a reasonable worry. But let's be real - I would worry regardless of whether I saw that he had a gun. He could be concealing it or he could be the kind apt to grab a nearby rock and use it on someone. It might worry some that he had access to a gun (with easy deadly force) but, speaking just for myself, any public act of violence is scary as hell and I don't really have much of a sliding scale.

If I see someone with open carry minding their own business, not acting nuts, not being aggressive, I just don't see how concern about the gun is rational. Do I think he is suddenly going to snap, pull out the gun and start shooting? Will it go off by itself? Will someone lurch over and grab it out of their holster? I just don't see it.

It is all about context, seems to me. Given that CC has been around for ages with no problem, open carry isn't the deciding factor unless I am just fixated on guns. People can also be mean as a junk yard dog with big fists yet I can't recall ever a time in my life when I observed someone, out of the blue, just haul off and punch someone. And maybe that life experience colors my reaction. If people can control their fists, I would expect them to be able to control their guns. I also think the fact that I know responsible people with guns is a big factor in not being so nervous. If I have a preconceived notion - like some - that people carry out of aggression or hostility, I might decide that the ones with a gun are already predisposed to use it. That would be a "logical" fear if that is a basic premise but my personal experience is that the ones with guns, legally, tend to be cautious about keeping their temper.

The reasons people wont like it is simple. Humans desire survival above all else. Most modern societies view weapons as tools of crime or sport, except when carried by those in uniform. Any variation in that normalcy, is going to be viewed as a potential threat.

What I can't understand is why open carry advocates fail to see that.

The reason open carry advocates fail to see that is that they don't accept your basic premise that "society" views the mere act of open carry as a potential threat. Yes, many people feel that way but most of the ones who do are people who either believe they are in safe areas, or who rely on police to protect them and don't feel the need for personal self defense beyond avoiding dark alleys or locks on their doors.

The vast majority of people that I know who are open carry advocates are concerned about self defense - NOT using a gun to commit a crime and not sport unless they are at the shooting range. To them, open carry serves as a deterrent to crime. That may be realistic or it may not - but it goes to their mindset and if you don't understand that, you will be confused as to why they do what they do. And there are huge, huge, huge numbers of people who feel this way. To the OC advocates, the gun is not a vehicle for crime unless it is in the hand of a criminal - and in that case, open carry is intended to defuse a potentially bad situation by sending a predator on to easier prey. The fundamental notion of self defense was recognized by the Supremes as the justification for the second amendment in the first place.

And the fact is, everyone in our society wants guns for protection - either in their own hands or in the hands of the police. And no one wants guns in the hands of criminals. If they feel relatively safe or are passive, they often leave it to the police. If they live in rural areas or in areas of high crime, they are far more likely to believe that self defense and defense of their family comes down to them. And open carry is viewed as a deterrent to crime - not a vehicle for crime.

Personally, I can't imagine telling a responsible person that they can't carry because it makes me nervous. I would feel like I would share some of the blame if, as a result of my sensibilities, I set them up for being attacked by a criminal.

The "fear" factor isn't hard to grasp here guys.

If someone walked onto a train with a machete strapped to his side, would you feel all at ease?

It is a little disingenuous to call people overly sensitive because they feel uneasy about seeing weapons that are pretty much exclusively used for violent purposes (justified or not) openly "brandished".

That is my main gripe. I don't think we benefit as a society when violent weapons are commonplace in public places.

I've seen enough old western movies. ;-)



PS this is coming from a combat vet. So please, please don't assume I'm somehow afraid of guns. It is all about context.Back to a point I made earlier. Your theoretical machete has been carried by many of us for many years. Only concealed. So isn't saying "It's there but it's OK if I just don't see it" somewhat akin to sticking one's head in the sand? I wonder how many people would be shocked to find out how often they've been within arms length of a concealed firearm and not known it.

You could always tuck your shirt in, its called using a pocket.

The second part is exactly my point. Some people chose to act that they were completely neutered because a piece of fabric separated them from their weapon. As i said before, how hard is it to reach into your own pocket?

Unless you are into skinny jeans. Then i completely understand.

3012I'm with hdware. I carry a model 26 "baby" glock. I also wear loose, comfy Wrangler jeans. Between keys, phone, billfold, change, etc. there isn't a way to conveniently, comfortably carry the gun in a pocket.

in the fwiw category:

a firearm on the hip in a holster is not being brandished. It's visible, sure, but simply being visible is not brandishing.

a firearm visible on the hop in a holster is not a bigger threat to John Q than the same firearm tucked under a jacket, in a purse or a pants pocket. If anything, it's less of a threat. If one feels a need they can easily monitor its inert status to see if if there is a change in location.

People keep talking about officers in uniform. Lots of plains clothes folks in law enforcement carry openly. I'm not recalling folks popping up and leaving out of stores or eateries when these folks appeared, even if they appeared in a group. They often do travel in small groups you know.

I choose not to carry, but those who do, openly or otherwise, don't give me any heartburn. Excess pepper on the other hand .....

I'm with hdware. I carry a model 26 "baby" glock. I also wear loose, comfy Wrangler jeans. Between keys, phone, billfold, change, etc. there isn't a way to conveniently, comfortably carry the gun in a pocket.

Pants pockets simply don't work for women. We're lucky if we get a three inch front jean pocket, top to bottom, and if there is room for a slim credit card holder you are doing pretty well but you won't be able to sit down. And that isn't just fat women - skinny women generally have even less room because they get jeans that fit closer. No woman wears baggy front pockets - it just isn't the way they're made. No way can you carry a gun in a front pocket and the back pocket is an even worse idea. So unless you carry a purse, that leaves us with a holster that needs to be covered for CC (and our jackets tend to be too short), a flash bang holster or a pocket of a jacket. None of those are particularly comfortable in warm weather. I do like the trend towards a pocket on the leg and have considered adding a few to my old jeans. Cargo pants have similar pockets but they sure are ugly.

Back to a point I made earlier. Your theoretical machete has been carried by many of us for many years. Only concealed. So isn't saying "It's there but it's OK if I just don't see it" somewhat akin to sticking one's head in the sand? I wonder how many people would be shocked to find out how often they've been within arms length of a concealed firearm and not known it.

Or shocked to find out they've been within an arms length of a black belt in martial arts, or an MMA fighter, or a boxer, or just a badass. The difference is, those guys don't walk around with their robes and black belts, or wearing their mouthpieces, or gloves. They don't have to. They know they can take care of themselves and others if they have to, much like most normal folks I know who carry concealed.

Just as I would wonder about anyone's true skills if they walked around barefoot in a white robe acting like Bruce Lee, so too will I wonder (and chuckle) when I see somebody walking around like John Wayne.

Or shocked to find out they've been within an arms length of a black belt in martial arts, or an MMA fighter, or a boxer, or just a badass. The difference is, those guys don't walk around with their robes and black belts, or wearing their mouthpieces, or gloves. They don't have to. They know they can take care of themselves and others if they have to, much like most normal folks I know who carry concealed.

Just as I would wonder about anyone's true skills if they walked around barefoot in a white robe acting like Bruce Lee, so too will I wonder (and chuckle) when I see somebody walking around like John Wayne.Also true. Which is why I will continue carrying concealed even though lobbied heavily for open carry. I will also continue with lots of range practice and refresher force on force courses. I really try to be one who looks and carries myself as totally harmless but could take care of myself if I had to.

Saw my first at Crest grocery store. Not sure if they have a "no weapons allowed" sign or not, but it was a bit startling. What was weird was he had this angry scowl on his face and glared at everyone around him. Not suggesting he's anything less than a "responsible gun owner" but it kind of gave me the creeps.

I noticed a guy wearing what I think was a Glock 36 yesterday at this little Thai place I went for lunch. I need to look into getting one of those. It was pretty slim and didn't stick out much, even though his holster was an "outside the waistband" type. Seems ideal for conceal carry.

I just realized an unintended consequence of open carry. Gun envy. It's going to wreak havoc on my budget. :D

Saw my first at Crest grocery store. Not sure if they have a "no weapons allowed" sign or not, but it was a bit startling. What was weird was he had this angry scowl on his face and glared at everyone around him. Not suggesting he's anything less than a "responsible gun owner" but it kind of gave me the creeps.

I had a similar experience and I think that's why the law has left such a bad taste in my mouth. Im not advocating taking it away, but as i've always stated its designed to cater to the already angry and parioniod who act like they have something to prove. I'm still waiting for the first run in of two open carry people. I'm interested in how the public and law will view how much a threat either person determined that the other person was....

What i liked about concealed carry was that you had to physically take your weapon out of the concealed holster to be viewed as a threat. Now where is that line, as soon as someone places there hand on / or moves their hand toward their weapon while they are standing there?

I haven't seen any explanation as to when/what crosses the line.



I've seen 1 older 300lb man open carrying at harbor freight and he was proudly standing there like a peacock making sure everyone could see him. He seemed more likely to die of a heart attack than some bad guy coming after him but i knew this law was going to be attractive to that type of people who are trying to show how bad ass they are.

Some people are just angry and paranoid, I agree with that...

Saw my first at Crest grocery store. Not sure if they have a "no weapons allowed" sign or not, but it was a bit startling. What was weird was he had this angry scowl on his face and glared at everyone around him. Not suggesting he's anything less than a "responsible gun owner" but it kind of gave me the creeps.

Maybe he was picking up on all the bad vibes--even unspoken--from most of the rest of the shoppers.
Maybe he was actually hearing voices in his head saying things like: "What a friggin' jerk . . ." "Oooo a civilian Barney Fife . . ." "I'll bet he has a small . . ."

Some people are just angry and paranoid, I agree with that...

And some of them even quote their own words to suppport their paranoia
:)

Some people are just angry and paranoid, I agree with that...


And some of them even quote their own words to suppport their paranoia
:)

This is a generalization - But I wonder what percentage of the people who open carry have been in the military and/or in an actual close combat situation. I'm not talking about piloting a desk chair or conducting surveillance, but real life combat at one time in their lives. Others have pointed out in this thread that some that those who have been around death dont plan to open carry (im also basing this off talking to peers at my work). Its not that people dont understand that the risk are potentially out there and arent preparing themselves through concealed carrying, its just that there isnt a need to display it to everyone around them.

In my life ive watched things die from violent acts and its not pretty and its something that never leaves you. There isnt anything macho or funny about it. Thats why i sometimes scoff when people talk about them wanting to keep their pockets empty or dont like the weight...

Actually witness or participate in the reality of it then you might be more hesitant when it comes to a little kid seeing your weapon at the grocery store or calling people half your age who have been in those situations paranoid.

Actually witness or participate in the reality of it then you might be more hesitant when it comes to a little kid seeing your weapon at the grocery store or calling people half your age who have been in those situations paranoid.
No, I wouldn't. It sounds like you have some issues to work through. Have you ever sought counseling for what you've experienced? Seriously, I know people who have had the same anxiety over other mundane things as opening closed doors, seeing a sunlight reflection in the distance, even being around kids in large groups. Worth a shot to ease your mind.

I know people who have had the same anxiety over other mundane things as opening closed doors, seeing a sunlight reflection in the distance, even being around kids in large groups. Worth a shot to ease your mind.

Stay classy.

Stay classy.
I was serious, but whatever.

PTSD is a real thing and if seemingly silly things grind your gears and you attribute it to something horrible you went through or witnessed, talking with someone about it is something you should look into.

What your immersion into your own violent memories has to do with the impact of John or Susie Public, or lil' johnnie or itty bitty susie Q for that matter, seeing a visible sidearm on Avg. Joe or Jane's hip on the street, in a store, etc. is quite the mystery.

With respect, you seem to have some new oh my it's so horrible reasoning with each passing week.
I'm reminded again of that old adage ... when you find yourself in a hole, rule one is stop digging.

What your immersion into your own violent memories has to do with the impact of John or Susie Public, or lil' johnnie or itty bitty susie Q for that matter, seeing a visible sidearm on Avg. Joe or Jane's hip on the street, in a store, etc. is quite the mystery.

With respect, you seem to have some new oh my it's so horrible reasoning with each passing week.
I'm reminded again of that old adage ... when you find yourself in a hole, rule one is stop digging.

If you actually read back through my post you can see it peppered in...

Maybe you were the guy at harbor freight and thats what got you so riled up.


I concealed carry but i fall into the category that we never needed this law. If you can afford a fire arm you should be able to afford a decent 20 dollar holster to keep it from showing. I've never had a problem keeping it concealed or have known anyone who has. Plus just look at all the options out there for smaller carry weapons, its a massive market. You can get a 9mm, 40 cal, and even a 45 in a small frame weapon. But then you have people screaming that they want to carry a 40 cal with 16 shot clip. Where the heck are you going that you need that or if your that bad of a shot you have no business in carrying - you arent a cop.

I've seen 1 older 300lb man open carrying at harbor freight and he was proudly standing there like a peacock making sure everyone could see him. He seemed more likely to die of a heart attack than some bad guy coming after him but i knew this law was going to be attractive to that type of people who are trying to show how bad ass they are. My main problem is that I have little kids and dont really like the idea of them seeing guns everywhere they go because they dont become 'dangerous' and if you own a weapon you know exactly what i mean. Even as an adult its very easy to forget how dangerous a handgun is when you are around them all the time.

Think about it this way. Growing up most of us saw people smoking everywhere. You couldnt go into a restaurant, store, or business with out seeing someone lighting up. Now you have a newer generation of kids who will literally ask what is that person doing, smoking is bad, why are they doing that. Do we really want to turn the world backwards where it becomes everyday that our kids see someone who isnt an authority figure with a weapon?

Very 3rd world country of us.

Want to see open carry in action. He's ready to fight for his life, just look at the vest- he's been to cheaperthandirt.com

Bring on the zombies!

I'll be glad when this fad is over people realize that a firearm and 30 minutes of range time at your handgun carry class doesnt make you gi-joe.


http://youtu.be/Qth1k962_9A

I'm trying to figure out what point you're trying to make with this latest post.

I'm trying to figure out what point you're trying to make with this latest post.

That the current fad that we have right now is stupid. Everyone is buying handguns, everyone is a hard ass, everyone is ready to defend themselves, and some people want to go a step further by showing their weapon in public. Its stupid.

My post earlier demonstrated what Sid and my concern was about openly carried weapons. Weapons have gotten to the point where supporters over this law call weapons 'mundane', and talk about 'gun envy' even though they have never witnessed a weapon used on another human.

People have no idea what they are doing or what they are supporting.

They are, for lack of a better word - ignorant.

Actually, calling people who disagree with you ignorant for no basis other than they disagree with you is, well, somewhat less than special.

Oh, and as to reading posts, I have made it clear, more than once, that I do not carry, concealed or otherwise. Tend to your own reading of posts before you are critical of someone else, if you can manage to tear your eyes away from searching waistbands for firearms.

Actually, calling people who disagree with you ignorant for no basis other than they disagree with you is, well, somewhat less than special.



Huh? there are numerous reasons that I listed why called them ignorant.

That the current fad that we have right now is stupid. Everyone is buying handguns, everyone is a hard ass, everyone is ready to defend themselves, and some people want to go a step further by showing their weapon in public. Its stupid.

My post earlier demonstrated what Sid and my concern was about openly carried weapons. Weapons have gotten to the point where supporters over this law call weapons 'mundane', and talk about 'gun envy' even though they have never witnessed a weapon used on another human.

People have no idea what they are doing or what they are supporting.

They are, for lack of a better word - ignorant.
Wow, over-generalize much? I've yet to witness the behavior that you portray as so common. Where and how did you witness all this carnage you allude to that has so warped your sense of reality?

Also, what make you think you are any better than anyone else to carry, concealed or otherwise? Do you have extensive training beyond what any other person has available to them? How do you know the other people you have seen haven't had just as much training as you? I'm sure you have no clue about most anyone else. You sit in judgement, basing your conclusions on the scowl someone has or the way they wear their firearm of choice. Who (besides yourself) appointed you sacred guardian of the knowledge and ability required to carry a firearm?

Do you have extensive training beyond what any other person has available to them?

Years ago. But as you know its a perishable skill.

But lets stop beating a dead horse. The law has passed and all of us have wasted too much time arguing about it.

I do have a serious question that I would like answered that i asked earlier -


What i liked about concealed carry was that you had to physically take your weapon out of the concealed holster to be viewed as a threat. Now where is that line, as soon as someone places there hand on / or moves their hand toward their weapon while they are standing there?

I haven't seen any explanation as to when/what crosses the line.

My other question is why you open carry guys like 45s?

I know monk and hdware both posted about them. Im personally not a huge 45 fan unless its in a 1911, I've always thought the recoil was excessive and the bullets too expensive for any enjoyable range time plus if you look at some ballistics testing you are almost better off with a sw 40 cal or a 357 sig.

I did want to share some familys enjoying some open carrying time together so we all can end with warm fuzzys.
3037
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They look very ordinary and serene and downright happy. Thanks for sharing.

3042

Taking someones vitals while you are wearing a gun. Sorry, too many years as an EMT. Had to laugh at that one.

Hey, ya never know when granny might be packing a knitting shank and palming her meds.


I keeed, I keeed.

I do have a serious question that I would like answered that i asked earlier -

What i liked about concealed carry was that you had to physically take your weapon out of the concealed holster to be viewed as a threat. Now where is that line, as soon as someone places there hand on / or moves their hand toward their weapon while they are standing there?

I haven't seen any explanation as to when/what crosses the line.



My other question is why you open carry guys like 45s?

I know monk and hdware both posted about them. Im personally not a huge 45 fan unless its in a 1911, I've always thought the recoil was excessive and the bullets too expensive for any enjoyable range time plus if you look at some ballistics testing you are almost better off with a sw 40 cal or a 357 sig.

I can only speak for myself, but to answer your first question -

Placing your hand on your firearm for any reason other than to draw it is a bad habit to get in to, no matter if you are OC or CC. Many people may move towards their firearm, especially if they carry their wallet in their strong side back pocket. I carry my keys and change in my strong side front pocket and have never had anyone think I'm moving for my firearm. I think what you have to realize is that bad guys don't open carry because they don't want the extra attention. Also, bad guys don't use holsters 99.99 percent of the time. Therefore the gun in the holster of they guy at the grocery store buying eggs and milk probably isn't going to hurt you.

In 2006 the FBI did a study about criminals and their use of handguns. You can read the full report here (http://www.americanfirearms.org/reports.php), however what is most important is Chapter 4 (http://www.americanfirearms.org/downloads/fbi_rc_4.pdf). On page 3 of this chapter is a section called Firearm Concealment and Storage, which states that of the people interviewed who routinely carried a handgun, they all concealed it, and only 1 would occasionally wear a holster when robbing banks.

If I run into another open carrier, and they aren't yelling at me and making overtly threatening comments and behaving strangely, then move on there is nothing to see here. If they are behaving strangely, then it's time to find some other place to be. I am not a LEO and it is not my place to find out if they are off their meds or whatever. I would be completely justified in calling 911 and have an officer come check them out and be a good witness.

As to your second question about .45's -

I know a few others who carry things other than .45s so it's not a blanket thing. I carry a .45 because it's what I have and I don't have the budget to go buy the plethora of firearms I would like to have. I refuse to get rid of what I carry and am comfortable with on the chance I might like something better. When I am able to purchase a different firearm, if I like it better, that will become my carry gun and this will go in the safe or be sold. While the 40 does provide about the same penetration as the 45, I'll go with the bigger hole. I also like the .45 because it moves a it slower. I don't have to worry as much about over penetration of my target.

I'm trying to decide if you like the 45 or if you just like the look and/or function of the 1911s. A 45 is going to have the same velocity no matter if it comes out of a 1911 or something else. The only real thing that can be effected is recoil (marginally) based upon the weight of the gun. That being said, I don't have a 1911 (but would like to pick one up someday), I have changed my guide rod and put in a double buffer spring guide to take up some of the extra recoil. I also reload my own target rounds and so over time, I come out cheaper than buying a few boxes every time I go to the range.

As to your second question about .45's -

I know a few others who carry things other than .45s so it's not a blanket thing. I carry a .45 because it's what I have and I don't have the budget to go buy the plethora of firearms I would like to have. I refuse to get rid of what I carry and am comfortable with on the chance I might like something better. When I am able to purchase a different firearm, if I like it better, that will become my carry gun and this will go in the safe or be sold. While the 40 does provide about the same penetration as the 45, I'll go with the bigger hole. I also like the .45 because it moves a it slower. I don't have to worry as much about over penetration of my target.

I'm trying to decide if you like the 45 or if you just like the look and/or function of the 1911s. A 45 is going to have the same velocity no matter if it comes out of a 1911 or something else. The only real thing that can be effected is recoil (marginally) based upon the weight of the gun. That being said, I don't have a 1911 (but would like to pick one up someday), I have changed my guide rod and put in a double buffer spring guide to take up some of the extra recoil. I also reload my own target rounds and so over time, I come out cheaper than buying a few boxes every time I go to the range.In my younger days, I bought a .45 Colt Commander to serve as my "sleeping bag gun" in February of 1953 while on my way to Korea -- with full approval of the OCPD. Paid about $65 for it at Andy Anderson's downtown. Col. Paul Bell, later commander of the 95th Infantry Division, taught me to handle it at the OCPD gun range. I carried it through combat and brought it back home with me, but never used it against a human target.

My reasons for picking the .45 were several. First was its stopping power. The slow round packed a huge wallop. Second was its compactness (as compared to my issue weapon, the M2 carbine) which let me keep it in my sleeping bag when in the FO's bunker. Finally, it took the same ammo as the "grease gun" issued to drivers so supply would never be a problem.

The Commander had several advantages over the M1911A1; first, it was only 2/3 the weight. That changed its recoil characteristic, for the better; the 1911 kicks up and to the right, while the Commander kicked straight up and didn't go off line. That let it fall back into battery, naturally, which was a great advantage on the range. Col. Bell shot a palm-sized group at 50 yards with mine, one afternoon while training me, and told me that was almost impossible with a 1911; at the time, he was the state pistol champion, so I took his word for it.

As my sons became toddlers and inquisitive, I sold both my handguns to a co-worker, I knew the boys would find them eventually and did not want any chances of problems. I've never replaced them -- but one son and his wife have both taken out CC permits and have guns, which they take along when showing real estate. Concealed, of course. And I seriously doubt that either of them would be able to use them effectively in case of real need. To do so requires an attitude that's no longer politically correct. As a deputy sheriff told me almost 60 years ago, "Never loosen your holster unless you intend to draw. Never draw unless you intend to aim. Never aim unless you intend to fire. And when you fire, remember that the fewer stories your jury hears, the less likely they are to become confused." When deadly force is required, holding back to simply wound is not adequate; the pistol should be left alone unless you are not only prepared, but willing, to execute your assailant. Few of us have that resolve any more, and even LEOs are constrained from using it.

Hey, ya never know when granny might be packing a knitting shank and palming her meds.


I keeed, I keeed.

No, it's true - trust me. :)