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Leon
06-06-2005, 10:57 PM
Ya know, due to recent events in my life, I believe that there is not a woman on the globe that is capable of actual, true, accepting love....that seems to be quite the opposite of the typical opinion that men are only in it for physical satisfaction. Women are ruthless. Men wanna open up, they just know that if they do, they'll get screwed. I guess I had to learn the hard way several times. During my 41 years, there has not been one woman that I could open up my inner self to who has not screwed me over in some way. I'll never turn gay, but as of tonight, I don't think I'll ever court a woman again,....seriously anyway. Their loss, I have a fantastic income and a stable life. I cant say that all women are heartless but I will say that I can't recall one who isn't. So, from this day on, screw serious relationships. May I never believe in a woman again.

Fellas, a serious relationship equates to submission....it will never be 50/50.

Ladies, your man will never fully open up to you, because submission cannot equate to equality. If you think your relationship is perfect, then there must be something you don't know. You can't know how he truely feels....He's smarter than me....He knows that 50% percent of you is better than 100% of nothing.

A successful long-term relationship must be based on lies.

Added to my to-do list: change my $500.000 insurance benificiary to some non-profit organization.

El Gato Pollo Loco!!!
06-07-2005, 02:53 PM
...Added to my to-do list: change my $500.000 insurance benificiary to some non-profit organization.

I'm a good non-profit organization :D

:irule:

Karried
06-07-2005, 05:33 PM
Leon, it always feels so horrible after a split.. but remember, there is someone out there where you will be able to open up and share your life with. Don't give up and know that out there somewhere, someone is waiting for someone just like you to spend time with and to love... don't quit

Curt
06-07-2005, 09:27 PM
Leon, I feel your pain my friend. I just broke up with a woman that told me she wanted someone to love her so much it hurt, then when I told her my true feelings, she went running back to a guy who used her for sex only, and she admitted that is why she went back to him, because she did not want the emotional feelings that came with the sex part, but rather just wanted the sex and no feelings. because of her, and in fact the last three women in my life, I dont think I can ever love again, or at least show it because I am afraid it will scare them away.

Leon
06-07-2005, 10:04 PM
Man I'll tell ya.....Throughout today I had a totally new, albiet unwelcomed, perspective on women. The ones I knew, co-workers, wifes of friends, were all still OK. But I had an intense distrust for any woman I did not know.....a distrust that may prevent me from ever getting to know another. This last relationship was the greatest thing I've ever known and I poured my heart into it. It wasn't easy. It took a lot of effort to open up and let someone in....I'd guess it does for all men.

The sadest thing: I still believe it was the best relationship either of us had ever experienced. And I think that for me to open up again, another relationship would have to be better, and I honestly can't imagine that happening.

She walked away....no explanation. I suspect that means a third party's involvement. Crap!!! How does one ever learn to trust another?

Leon
06-07-2005, 10:24 PM
Karried, I know I don't know you from Adam (or Eve) but girl, I believe you're mistaken. I travel a lot with my job, about two weeks a month..with married people, with single people, people who have boyfriends or girlfriends, different people most trips...I've spent a lot of time in hotel bars. I don't think anyone is faithful....male or female.....seen it too many times....except me, I'm the odd man out.

Karried
06-08-2005, 11:03 AM
Leon, well, I can speak from personal experience, I've been married 18 years and never cheated. Never will.

It hasn't been easy - we were babies really 24 and 22 but we've made through many obstacles and lifes ups and downs. There was a time when we struggled but for the most part we are really happy and wouldn't want to be with anyone else.

Like I told you before, it sounds like it is painful for you right now and I do remember that hurt, disbelief, betrayed feeling when you've felt so vulnerable and shared your feelings just to have someone stomp all over them.

Human nature is to be selfish and do anything to get needs met - the women you are speaking of sound pretty complex - I'm not a psychologist by any means but I do think women like a challenge and the thrill of the hunt, some women say they want a man to be sensitive, open and vulnerable but I don't know if that's what they really want - opposites attract and I think that is why men and women like the differences in other sexes.. it is confusing, a woman might tell you she wants a sensitive guy but realistically can't handle the emotions (subconsciously, maybe she wants a strong macho father figure). In other words, don't believe every thing you hear - try to figure out the meaning behind the words - when a woman says ' I don't want anything for my birthday" head for the mall asap. It's horrible because men can be more forthright and open but woman have been taught not to be assertive and tiptoe around issues - have you ever heard of Men are from Mars, Woman are from Venus - it is really interesting and talks about how men and women can't communicate because of the way our minds are wired. (something along those lines).

Once these women know you aren't going to chase after them and beg them to come back they just might change their minds. It doesn't hurt to let them know you might be dating someone else - people want what they can't have.. I wouldn't call them if your life depended on it, as hard as that is, let them miss you a bit ... if you make yourself a little less available and revert to your not so vulnerable self, they might reconsider letting you go.

I'm not giving up on you Leon, there is always hope and you will feel better in time .. when you least expect it, someone will realize what a great catch you are. Just be good to yourself right now because it is a hard time for you - and remember, you do have some cyber friends that care about you!

Leon
06-08-2005, 08:45 PM
Karrie,...Up front, thank you. That was a long post and it says something about you that you'd take the time to write it. So seriously, thank you.

Now, it's been a couple of days. I've learned through my life, it normally takes me about three days to get back to 90% normal after a life-altering event like a death or a break-up...three days to think rationally.

Two days ago I'd say my feelings toward women were just shy of a dark hate. I'll say here that I'm glad I didn't lash out at YOU in a reply....'cause I don't know you and you WERE trying to help...I was an extremely bitter person Monday. I'm working my way back to "just don't care".

I have done some thinking though. This girl and I had known each other as friends for several years before we became attracted to each other (I think we're both good-looking, I know she is very.) We probably never noticed each other due to other relationships we were involved in.

But one day the timing was right, we were both available, and a little, and I mean little, flirting sparked the best thing I'd ever know and I believe ever will. Lasted for a year and a half 'til now. We already knew each other. Neither had to BS or put up a facade. And within a few weeks we had talked about that and we pledged to each other NEVER to deceive each other in any way AND to express it when something bothered us and talk it out....We had trust to an infinite degree, and we had love, and we had passion.

And we argued a few times but that pledge WORKED!

I don't KNOW there is another man. She and I are still talking. But over the last few weeks there is a big, fast difference, she used to call several times a day we'd talk 'til midnight, now maybe once every other day. A month ago we could talk for hours about all kinds of things, now it's a huge struggle to get her to talk for ten minutes. A month ago I'd get emails from her at least one a day, just checked, the last was Sunday, not too bad I guess. Here's a small portion, "If I know you, when you read this you'll probably start thinking that I'm trying to end things with you. That is NOT the case at all. I love you dearly and you do make me happy."

I think there is something she needs to say but wont.....So now the pledge is gone, there is secrecy, there is NOT openess, there is not communication. Now as of Sunday, with my first post, trust is gone....replaced by suspicion.

I've poured my heart out several times recently to replies like, "I'm tired and need to go to bed."...at 8:30! "My head hurts." "My neck hurts."

.....Now Leon's heart hurts. I'd do anything to fix it. I really hope it's not lost.

Now it's time for a beer or two, or three.

Thanks Kerrie....You mentioned not calling no matter how hard it was. I think that's what I'm going to do...walk away and see if she'll come around.

Curt
06-08-2005, 09:06 PM
Leon, I have been going through a similar situation. The woman I was seeing, who told me she would never hurt me and always be my friend no matter what, just about a month ago really changed, did not respond to my emials the same way, kept making excuses why we could not get together or talk anymore, but has never really told me why, and now she just totally hates me because I was looking for answers. She all of the sudden says she cant trust me, even though back in October she re-connected with a guy she used to know and they slept together, this after she told me how he dumped her after a summer of her going to his house everyday for lunch for sex, and he just dumped her, and hurt her, so she runs back to him while seeing me, so, I gave her another chance, but do you think she would give me another? no. I cant trust another woman and cant allow myself to have feelings anymore, just cant and wont. Karrie, you are one of the few good women out there my friend, too bad there are not more like you. My buddy at work told me, his mother told him years ago, she said " son, here is the deal with women, love 'em and leave 'em" and I really beleive most women out there dont like to be treated good, in fact another woman told me that just a few days ago. The girl I was seeing, her and I had many arguments about this other guy she refused to stop talking to, even though he is engaged to be married. Again, Karrie, please dont take any of this personal, we have talked and I know you are a good woman. I sometimes just want to call this girl, but stop myself from doing so, I e-mail now and then telling her I am willing to forgive and forget the past and be friends and take whatever comes with that, she just flat out refuses. I dont understand, I loved her and told her how beautiful she was everyday, I thought that was what she wanted, I guess not.

Leon
06-08-2005, 10:28 PM
Oh, Bro! It hurts to read your email. Ya watch daytime talkshows, all women talk about is how they want a sensitive caring man who'll listen to them and try to understand. If they actually want that, they want a man they can control. The vast majority of women would never even consider being on a talkshow.....so you don't get the opinion of the vast majority of women. The controllers are bitch-enough to do it....so all you get are controllers' opinions.

I'll tell ya, these last few days, I've been watching the world from a different perspective...thinking real hard about what I'm seeing......My son, baseball team, eleven kids, eight or nine couples (parents, step-parents, boyfriends, girlfriends). I watched them and thought about things I've witnessed since practice started in February....and again I made observations....eight couples, four of the ladies would be considered hot (for their age) by anyone...four would be considered below average or obese.

Man I've heard it before but always ignored it,...The husbands of the good-looking, dedicated ladies (and the good-looking, dedicated ones were all married) were ALL *******s....especially to their wifes. The other guys were all nice, polite, and respectful to everyone....I'm not saying the nice guys were stuck with fat or ugly women....I'm saying the nice guys ALL had a track records of problematic relationships....The *******s' marriages seemed as solid as a rock.

My problem, and maybe yours,....it's not in me to DIRECT and COMMAND my woman...but that appears to be what's needed to make a relationship work....maybe they need to be TOLD what to do. Maybe a successfull relationship can't be 50/50....Maybe it has to be 75/25 in the man's favor to last "until death do you part."

I don't know....I know I can't love anyone more than I loved this most recent one....and it still didn't work. So love isn't the answer. Maybe I need to be an ass, demand hot sex five times a week, and fried chicken every Thursday. But I'm 41 now.....looks like no one will be next to me when I die...except maybe an ugly obese woman who wouldn't even give me a kitchen pass to go to Wal-Mart.

Dang! What's a man to do?

Curt
06-09-2005, 04:55 AM
Ya know Leon, what you say is true. All the guys I know that have women treat them like crap. Cops are the worst for this also, my cop buddies are all users and players, and even married, but they cheat, they use and they have all the women they can handle. I am not sitting here crying the blues, just stating facts.

Karried
06-09-2005, 11:20 AM
Guys! You are both coming off relationships that didn't work out and I know it hurts like hell, been there a few times and even though it was long ago, I remember it well. Just a few short years ago, we went through some problems and I thought my marriage was in trouble. It was so painful and everything looked bleak and hopeless. We got throught it and are much stronger now.

I think it is important to remember that your reality now is skewed by your feelings of deception, betrayal and sadness. You know the steps through grieving - it will take a little time. I've done this before, write down every negative part of your relationship and focus on that, people become larger than life and glorified - they become saintly in our imaginations. Focus on the reality of how they were just people who you were infatuated with - they had flaws and imperfections. That helped me somehow going through breakups.

Curt, you know you have a place in my heart so you just need to get out here to OK and hang out with Leon and we'll find you both some decent women.

Okay, now don't start acting like a**holes to women just because of this recent relationship problem. Remember about opposites attracting? I'm speaking for myself, I don't want a man to act too much like me! Can you imagine both of us sappy and bawling through Hallmark commercials? Not a good visual! I want a man to be strong and stoic and maybe not be so available - sounds opposite of what you may have heard but for me, that's attractive. I don't want to be treated like dirt but I do like a semi macho personality but I'm not attracted sexually to too much sensitivity(otherwise I'd be gay). I do like to be told that I'm attractive and I like to be told how much I am loved but I don't like to hear how much 'he can't live without me or I'd die if you weren't in my life" etc. I think you need to hold on to some of the things that your women first liked about you, I'll bet when you first started calling they would wait by the phone and hope you would call - now they know you will like clockwork ... hmmm, maybe some of the excitement has worn off and the chase is ended because they feel confident they have you. A little tiny bit of uncertainly wouldn't kill them. Just my two cents I'm certainly no expert here. Leon don't you dare give up - give yourself time - you may be reading into things that aren't there with her but I don't think you should call (even though your fingers will feel like steel attracted to that phone), don't do it! Keep busy, call some friends and let us know how it is going.

Leon
06-09-2005, 08:48 PM
Mariner I have a friend/coworker...was married to a cop..he decided he wanted a divorce..divorce was final four months ago...he calls my friend today....he's getting married.

Now I have seen people get married faster, but I don't think it's smart. I and my friend both suspect he was seeing her before the divorce....If so, could his new wife ever trust him?....When she KNOWS he's cheated before?

Question for all: Do you think a relationship can ever be as strong/close as it was before someone had an affair?

Leon
06-09-2005, 09:23 PM
Karrie, I kinda like posting back and forth to you...I might learn something. But just for the sake of discussion, lemme make some comments about your last post.

"You are both coming off relationships that didn't work out and ..." should read
"You are both coming off a lifetime of relationships that didn't work out and ..."( but I wont claim to speak for Mariner.)

You are absolutely right about reality being skewed by feelings. I know myself and I mentioned earlier, three days before I can even try to think with a clear mind. I'm pretty close now......and I'm cautiously happy to say that we've talked twice today. Thanks may be due to you, Kerrie, 'cause I did back off and I did appear that I didn't care whether we talked or not. And the talks went well although it was kind of like walking up to the edge of a cliff, we were both very careful.

Now the a**hole part....I don't mean making an effort to be rude, and I certainly don't mean physically or emotionally abusive....I mean to put myself first from now on and not her...to not go outta my way to be accomodating like I have in the past.

Actually, back on the skewed thinking thing, after about three days the hurt turns to anger...and thoughts of vengence (sp?) Those three days have passed now, I'm a little mad but I've decided not to care.

I dunno if it's sad yet though...there still could be a perfectly understandable explanation (although I can't imagine what that'd be). But if the relationship survives and an explanation doesn't come, then it'll never be as good as it was. And if the explanation IS infidelity, then I don't know, but I don't think so. I don't think I could live with that in the back of my mind. Ya know...anytime she's late, anytime she doesn't answer the phone, that thought would pop up.

I guess I need to get away from the "what if"s and focus on the "what is". I really don't like the 'what is'.

Curt
06-09-2005, 09:50 PM
Leon, you can speak for me when you say a lifetime of relationships have not worked. I dont know why either. The girl I was with before, for about ten years cheated on me, moved in with that guy, then a month later moved out into her mom's house, after a year she came back to my house, but we had seperate rooms after that and no sex anymore, I just did not have the same feelings, but gave her a place to live, she later died of liver disease from too much partying, and yes drugs. This last woman, cried the blues to me how no one wanted her, how she was not good enough for anyone, and when I was in OKC this past decamber for a job interview, she cried again that I was going to move away from her and that she was not good enough for me. I stayed here because I thought she wanted me to, after that things started going down hill until we are at the point now of not talking. Sad part is this, I will never trust again, no matter if my woman cheats on me or not, I cant trust anymore. I was so good to this girl when we met, then she started seeing this other guy and I became an a--hole. I told her that the reason we fight is because she went back to him, and she says I cant take the blame therefore she cannot see me anymore, whatever, if she had not started seeing him again none of this would be happening. I do have feelings of revenge right now, but dont want to cause my self any problems. My only fault is when she first told me back in October she was seeing this other guy, i should have dumped her, but being the nice guy I am, I forgave her, never again.

Curt
06-09-2005, 10:00 PM
Karrie, I know I need to move to Oklahoma and find a good woman there, because there are none up here. I found Oklahoma because of a woman and have talked to you about realestate enough to know you are a good woman. I wont become an a--hole to women, but I wont bend over backwards for anyone any more either, I'll be hard to get and a challenge. If they want me bad enough, they can come to me from now on. I am glad you worked things out years ago in your marriage, your husband and kids are lucky to have you. I need to listen to you and take your advice, on moving and women.

Leon, to touch on the subject of that friend of yours that was married to a cop, NONE of my cop buddies, married or not are faithful to their women, I take that back, one is, but that is the only one. One of them dumped the same girl three times now, and she keeps taking him back, and he still sleeps around with other women.

Karried
06-09-2005, 10:05 PM
"You are both coming off a lifetime of relationships that didn't work out and ..."( but I wont claim to speak for Mariner.)

B.S.

You are both too young to speak for your lifetime - the best is yet to come, all of this you are going through is teaching you how to be a better partner in your next relationship. These are just trial runs and made to prepare you for the next best thing coming up in your lives. Do you know how many women would love to have guys like you?? Come on!

Leon, you might just be worried about nothing and Curt, she wasn't good enough for you anyway.

Curt
06-09-2005, 10:11 PM
Thanks Karrie, your a sweetheart.

Leon
06-09-2005, 10:19 PM
Oooooooooh,......If you knew what I know and saw what I just saw......HER!!!

Curt
06-09-2005, 10:20 PM
Oooooooooh,......If you knew what I know and saw what I just saw......HER!!!
Huh?

Leon
06-09-2005, 10:39 PM
She just freakin' hung up to talk to someone else....didn't even say,"Bye."....not even one word....I heard the call-waiting click a few times then absolutely nothing!!!!!

Curt
06-09-2005, 10:41 PM
Time to forget about her now, her loss.

Leon
06-09-2005, 11:13 PM
Ya know, I dislike women so much right now, I changed my desktop from a great picture of Jennifer Aniston to a freakin' hill with grass on it!......Looks better to me.

Curt
06-10-2005, 04:35 AM
Ya know, I dislike women so much right now, I changed my desktop from a great picture of Jennifer Aniston to a freakin' hill with grass on it!......Looks better to me.
I dont know if I'd go quite that far. I had a picture of Jennifer Aniston on my desktop awhile ago that would have made you loose all bodily functions, LOL. But seriuosly, I understand how you feel.

Karried
06-10-2005, 08:28 AM
Leon, here is what I'm thinking, you are probably so convinced that she is leaving that you are imagining things now! Her phone battery probably just died or something... give her the benefit of the doubt and why were you talking to her anyway? I thought you going to play cool and collected and stay away for a bit? Turn on your machine and better yet, go out and have fun with some friends - you are much more attractive to someone when they think someone else might want to be with you - Leon, hang in there - it will get better.

kellekokid
06-11-2005, 12:39 AM
Hi, I kinda feel like I am interrupting a conversation between you three so I hope you don't mind if I share a little of my story...However before I do I would like to say that my sister has been married to a cop for 16+ years and if he were to ever mess around on her I would probably end up in jail! She's the best there is and has put up with that cop attitude he carries everywhere for all these years so I would hope he is at least smart enough to not mess that up!

My last long term relationship ended over a few things the least of which was him telling me I was the most beautiful girl in the world "next to my mom" honest to goodness he would say that to me! I ask you do you bring your mom into that conversation? The first couple of times I heard that I was in the 'Awww thanks honey" mode when the Mom got thrown in there and I slide into "Huh???" and not at all thrilled.
He has a negative spirit about him and would constantly do things that he knew would make me mad despite me saying okay you won you made me mad now what? he would always think it was the greatest/funniest thing. That grew old real fast. Why do guys do that anyway, does that really make for a fun time?
He would also be just fine then in a blink of an eye be crying cause he missed...his Mom. Sensitivity and caring is a wonderful thing but too much frankly worriesome.
So, needless to say that's been broken up for awhile. Again these things were the least of things.

I've recently dated a couple of guys (at different times) one ended up wanting just a "buddy" we'll say, no real dates, no developing a relationship....no thank you.

The other guy totally mystifys me. Everything he said indicated he wanted a long term relationship in his life, things were going great, he was nice, treated me like a lady and seemed to enjoy my company. We hadn't really dated long enough to go further into a relationship but we had both indicated that we were interested in see if one would develop. Turns out that man loves to work...doesn't have to, has his things all in order in the finance department, just loves to work...even worked on his vacation. (Which by the way he never called me while he was gone) With my work hours the only time we could see each other was for lunches before I'd go into work or on the weekends and he works every weekend. He didn't for awhile, I guess just enough to get me interested then back to work. The more I write this the more I'm realizing that as the saying goes "he's just not into you" fits perfectly.... I just don't know why. He gave every indication that he was "in to me", then seeminly walked away without any indication as to why. I'm still stumped about that cause he seemed like a nicer man than that. So, all that meandering conversation to say it happens to us girls too. We care and we want to care and we put ourselves out there for a relationship and it seems like men want to use us for their interests. Personally I'm tired of it and frankly stumped. Do I act uncaring and aloof, do I be honest and say I like you and would like to see where this goes. Do I just become negative and depressed and lonely still? I don't want that for myself. I have the choice to make and hard as it is sometimes to not be sad at being lonely I have to believe that my guy is out there somewhere looking for an honest upfront loving caring funny girl to belong to them.
I would have to say that while it sounds good to want a relationship to be 50/50 it probably just isn't going to be that way. I think there will be times that the higher percentage is going to lean more to one person, other times it's going to be the other person, part of the give and take of living life. Nothing concrete about it.
It also sounds like you two guys have been through a painful breakups of long term relationships, and I am truly sorry you've gone through that. The hurt hearts and angry spirits are evident but please know that it's gonna get better, as trite as that may sound. And I do have to believe that you'll trust and believe in love again. We've got to guys, it's too sad not believing....

Leon
06-11-2005, 12:50 AM
Mariner, Jennifer Anniston is back. H-O-T

Kerrie, are you a counselor or something. You don't know me?!?!

Check this out. Went to the movies, met a female friend there. I already knew her, but it was a chance meeting. So we watched a movie together. She's attractive but I'm not attracted to her. I felt guilty though.

I REALLY have feelings for this other girl. So I'm gonna tell her that I saw a movie with my friend. It was completely innocent. Like I said though, I feel guilty. I figure telling will do several things: show I'm not trying to hide anything, show I'm still with the 'open and honest' pledge, give her a chance to open up, and indicate that I wouldn't be lost without her.

Leon
06-11-2005, 01:59 AM
Kelleko,
Guys do that mad thing because they're on a power trip. I'd guess the 'next to your mom' comments were part of the same trip.....Mom comment, making you mad just because he can, excessive uncalled-for display of sensitivity....you had a controller at the least and likely a future abuser. Those are a few methods people use to control YOUR emotions and when that happens they control your life. I am VERY attentive to controlling behaviors.

...."I'm still stumped about that cause he seemed like a nicer man than that".....Girl, it might be hard not to take this the wrong way, but if he wasn't "into you" that COULD HAVE been the nicest thing for him to do.

I understand so much of what you say. We need to start a lonely hearts club.

50/50 relationships...this is where I'm struggling....this is where I've messed up. So far I've been trying 50/50, trying soo hard to give in, that I've given in too much. Women's Libbers may hate me for this but 50/50 is a tie. One of the two HAS TO BE the tie-breaker....What shall we call the other one? Here, I'll call him/her the tie-giver. 50/50 would say that they should each be the tie-breaker 50% of the time. But, if one gives too much, that unintentionally throws the balance to 40/60. Now, no one should argue that throughout history men have been in control the most. (This is a testosterone/estrogen topic that I could start a new thread with.)....But that's not quite right either. Men are in control the most during the first half of their lives, women in the second half. (Watch how elderly women boss their men around and how the men submit.) So it should be naturally 60/40 then 40/60 for a 50/50 average. TYPICALLY, younger women don't NEED or want to be in control and men do. As the testosterone/estrogen levels drop with aging, those roles naturaly reverse.

So, my problem: I've been battling mother nature by allowing the woman to make all decisions.....a role in which she NATURALLY doesn't feel comfortable.....and leaves. I do not know how to tell when to give and when not to.

kellekokid
06-11-2005, 02:28 AM
I guess where I was going with the 50/50 thing is at times in life and or a relationship the higher number will shift more because of emotional needs or something like okay tonight we'll go do what you want to do I'm too tired to decide....the tie giver as you have aptly named it. The tie giver could probably be seen to be the "loser" but really are they? Knowing in a relationshiip there's the giver and the taker aren't they just choosing their role? None of the I am powerlord you must obey my command!! Cause if it's that I'm really in trouble....my attitude has already gone up just writing/reading that Oh Brother if that were really presented to me!

Leon
06-11-2005, 02:33 AM
Hell, I shouldn't give advice from my position.....I don't know how you do it....that's why I'm alone on a PC at 3:30 am...not quite ready to give up and sleep 'til noon every weekend.

Curt
06-11-2005, 07:33 AM
I REALLY have feelings for this other girl. So I'm gonna tell her that I saw a movie with my friend. It was completely innocent. Like I said though, I feel guilty. I figure telling will do several things: show I'm not trying to hide anything, show I'm still with the 'open and honest' pledge, give her a chance to open up, and indicate that I wouldn't be lost without her.
Leon, I can understand the feeling guilty thing. That just shows your a decent guy who has a heart and a conscience. I was in OKC in December for two reasons, one of them was to visit a female friend of mine, the other was for a job interview. The girl I know here called me while I was there and told me how much I was hurting her seeing my other friend, before I left she gave no indication that she was that interested in me, and in fact saw her male friend a few times, but threw it back in my face that I was there to visit my female friend. It made me feel guilty that I hurt her. So, long story short, I come back home, dont take the job and now she dumps me. Anyway, nuff of my sob story. You should let your other girl know about going to the movie with your female friend, dont tell her you met your friend there, just say you reconnected and went to the show together as friends and drop it at that, act like you could care less, and maybe even just say something like "Ok, I gotta run, I have alot to do" next time your on the phone, she will then wonder why you are not bending over backwards for her anymore and maybe try to get back with you, but if she does, be careful, and if you see signs she is going to run again, be the first to dump her. I know you still have feelings for her, I still do for mine, as much as I hate her, I still love her very much. Good luck my friend, if I lived there, we'd go have a few beers and look at chickies.

Karried
06-11-2005, 09:19 AM
"Kerrie, are you a counselor or something. You don't know me?!?!"

Sorry Leon, no, I'm not a counselor - just speaking from experience. I just thought I was helping out in some small way... I won't bother you again -good luck with everything.

Mariner, PM me if you want to talk -

Leon
06-11-2005, 11:42 AM
Kerrie, that "you don't know me!?!?" was a question. It would've been better put as "do you know me?" I think you took that the wrong way. PLEASE do no take that the wrong way. I actaully intended it to be a compliment. I'm truely sorry.

OKAY? I need friends and youy've nothing nothing to anger anyone.

Karried
06-11-2005, 11:46 AM
Leon, see communication between sexes is always confusing! Don't worry, I'm not upset, I was just confused - I thought you were mad at me for butting in! :-) We both need counseling together ha,ha ..

Leon
06-11-2005, 11:26 PM
Folks, can a serious relationship end without at least one of the persons saying that it's over, or let's just be friends?

Curt
06-11-2005, 11:58 PM
Once your serious, I dont see how you can be just friends, I couldnt, unless it was my choice to end it. My buddy is so bothered by the fact his ex is seeing other guys, he dumped her three times now and I told him, what do you expect, you dumped her three times now. See folks, he wants her to be faithul to him, but he does not want to be faithful to her....oh yah, he is a cop, typical cop.

Leon
06-12-2005, 12:12 AM
"Once your serious, I dont see how you can be just friends, I couldnt, unless it was my choice to end it."

That's how I feel too. This girl was my friend first. Now I stand to lose both a lover and a friend. I was thinking today which single female friends I'd date. Nah, you can't go back.

Anyone, know where the single LADIES hang out in OKC?.....not the tattooed meth addicts.

Jay
06-12-2005, 12:16 AM
Here is my take love:


I have been single since 1999


My problem is that I rarely find someone that piques my interests. The few women I have asked out went something like this one was married, one turned me down and the others there was no chemistry between us on our dates.

I refuse to give up on love, the only way I will not find someone is if I give up and stop looking.

I know what my mistakes where in the past. I moved to fast and I did not let fate take its course. I scared a few good girlfriend candidates off because of my lack of patience.

It used to be when I would go on a date I would act as if I had to do everything to impress them. Now I go out on a date to have a good time and analyze what happens next a couple days later.

I see dating and relationships as a game. You have to be competitive and make a woman chase you. At no time should you make her feel as if the game is over and its time to seek something more exciting.

Sometimes break up are meant to be.

When you do break up, there is no reunion. Move on and do something with your life. That is what I did six years ago. I walked away with the attitude of never again. Then that attitude changed to “I want to understand dating and find out what I want and do not want in a love relationship.”

Now that I have learned these lessons all I have to do is find that special girl.

Curt
06-12-2005, 12:17 AM
I lost a lover and a friend, and as much as I hate her, I miss her.

Curt
06-12-2005, 12:20 AM
All well put olkacity. perhaps my biggest problem is pushing too hard to prove my love for someone I push them away. Something I need to fix.

Leon
06-12-2005, 12:26 AM
I just hate the feeling of being alone. Like you, I need to go out simply to have a good time.

I need to take some time for me now...at least a year, two would be better...get some education and a new house. I dunno..I;m all jacked up right now.

Jay
06-12-2005, 12:26 AM
I would like to plug a website. I learned quite bit from the articles listed there.

www.askmen.com (http://www.askmen.com)

Its a Cosmo type site written for guys. They cover dating, health and fitness, cooking, career advice, you name it's there.

Jay
06-12-2005, 12:33 AM
Leon my advice for you would be this. Move on and forget her. Set some goals and achieve them.

Do those things that you couldn't do before now. Go back to school, get in better shape, learn a hobby, hone a skill that you wish you were better at doing, anything. Maybe something that you have always wanted to do but just never had the nerve or the time.

Lose her number, email, everything cut the tie and live your life. You will think me for it later. Who knows you might find the woman of your dreams in one of your journeys.

Leon
06-12-2005, 12:34 AM
Mariner, I explained to someone recently how men build a series of many walls around themselves to protect from everything....that's why they hide their emotions, don't declare love, etc. Guys like you and me are to quick to knock those walls down to let someone in. We need to name those walls and only let someone in when they can really be trusted in there and then only let them in one at a time.

Curt
06-12-2005, 12:38 AM
Mariner, I explained to someone recently how men build a series of many walls around themselves to protect from everything....that's why they hide their emotions, don't declare love, etc. Guys like you and me are to quick to knock those walls down to let someone in. We need to name those walls and only let someone in when they can really be trusted in there and then only let them in one at a time.
Oh trust me my friend, I wont be the first to show my love to a woman again, she is going to have to prove herself to me before I let my guard down again.

Leon
06-12-2005, 12:42 AM
oklacity75 that is what I need to do but neither has SAID it's over. I don't want that and I don't have a GOOD reason to give for it.

Leon
06-12-2005, 12:47 AM
Mariner, she needs to come just short of begging for me right now....no more automatic yes's.

Curt
06-12-2005, 12:48 AM
Leon, if neither has said it is over, dont give up, just step back a little and dont push like I do.

Jay
06-12-2005, 12:48 AM
When I hear a woman say "I want someone that is in touch with thier emotions." To me that phrase means a woman wants to know she is loved and she wants to be a friend when he needs one.

I think where some guys push it is when they use thier girlfriend as a shrink.

A man should be able to handle most of his problems on his own. The only time when outside help is needed is when a traumatic event has occurred.

Curt
06-12-2005, 12:51 AM
When I hear a woman say "I want someone that is in touch with thier emotions." To me that phrase means a woman wants to know she is loved and she wants to be a friend when he needs one.

I think where some guys push it is when they use thier girlfriend as a shrink.

A man should be able to handle most of his problems on his own. The only time when outside help is needed is when a traumatic event has occurred.
Bingo Oklacity, I think you are absolutley right about this. I dont in anyway hate women, I love them more than anything, but I am going to just take one day at a time right now.

Leon
06-12-2005, 12:52 AM
Mariner, even that stepping back is hard, but that IS what I'm trying right now.

Jay
06-12-2005, 12:55 AM
Leon, I have been through this before, she is using you as a lifeline. If she truly wanted you in her life she be talking to you and not playing games.

Beat her to the punch, break it off and move on. The train is coming down the tracks at a high rate of speed. The brakes are out and there is no stopping it now. Save some face, get as far from the tracks as you can. It's time move on with your life.

Sure it will be painful in the beginning but, you will survive.

Leon
06-12-2005, 01:07 AM
I know you're right oklacity. If I do it first, i'm the power, and I save face. On the flip, I'd have to settle for less later and I could be wrong.

U R still right but I gotta wait a little longer. Not doing it and taking the extra pain is more acceptable than doing it and being wrong, enven though allindications say I'd be right, I don't know.

osupa05
06-12-2005, 10:16 AM
Leon: How do you know that she's worth it? I don't know that the extra pain is more acceptable. There's that old saying (aj's paraphrase): "The only guy worth crying over is the one that won't make you cry." I think the same holds true on the flip side... I mean I know that we tend to hurt those we love the most.. so I don't think you will ever not "cry" in a relationship, but if you keep on hanging on, then what? I know she hasn't said "it's over", so maybe you should cut her loose... see if she comes back later, but find something else (and maybe someone else). Of course you should take all this with a grain of salt, because I'm struggling with my own relationship... I guess that's why I'm telling you to let her go.. because that's what I want this guy to do... just forget about me. Anyways, good luck with it all... sorry for buttin' in! Take care...

ps. If you all have any good ideas on how to know whether or not somebody is the right one, let me know! I'm scared to death to make a mistake...

osupa05
06-12-2005, 12:01 PM
Oh btw... church is a good place to gain new perspectives on things... and today was all about changing your perspective! So, my challenge to you guys (and to myself) is to see the good through the bad and focus on the positive! I know it sounds corny... trust me it sounded much less corny in the service! I'm no preacher, and I'm definitely not a saint, but it's something to think about and work on... It's good to know that you guys struggle too (not that I want you too struggle. It's just nice to know I'm not the only one). Ciao

Leon
06-12-2005, 12:31 PM
Not to harp on church or anything but I used to go religiously, no pun intended, every Wednesday and twice on Sunday, I maintained the buses for the bus ministry, I mass duplicated and sold recorded cassettes of sermons, all profits were given to the church...for 4 years. Then I missed three Sundays and the two Wednesdays in between due to an extended camping trip. I returned to learn that no one missed me. I guarantee that if my tithes had been as large as those of some others, someone would've check on my well-being at least.

Osupa nothing personal against you but against religious establishments....I know I'd never go missing for two solid weeks without at least one secular friend checking on me.

Curt
06-12-2005, 04:14 PM
Leon: How do you know that she's worth it? I don't know that the extra pain is more acceptable. There's that old saying (aj's paraphrase): "The only guy worth crying over is the one that won't make you cry." I think the same holds true on the flip side... I mean I know that we tend to hurt those we love the most.. so I don't think you will ever not "cry" in a relationship, but if you keep on hanging on, then what? I know she hasn't said "it's over", so maybe you should cut her loose... see if she comes back later, but find something else (and maybe someone else). Of course you should take all this with a grain of salt, because I'm struggling with my own relationship... I guess that's why I'm telling you to let her go.. because that's what I want this guy to do... just forget about me. Anyways, good luck with it all... sorry for buttin' in! Take care...

ps. If you all have any good ideas on how to know whether or not somebody is the right one, let me know! I'm scared to death to make a mistake...
Can I ask you why you want this guy to forget about you? dont take this wrong, but women have a way of leading us guys on, then dumping us and want us to just forget, that is what happend to my last two relationships, was lead on heavily, them telling me they loved me and missed me, then out of the "blue clear sky" dumped me. Anyone who has a heart and that cares about another human being cannot just up and forget. Women can do that easily, guys usually cant do that. Nothing against women, I am just saying, women can loose feelings in a day and go find another, guys cant because women hold the ball, and play the game to watch us struggle, then go to your friends and tell them how you have this guy wrapped around your finger. Osupa05, you have not butted in at all, it is good to hear from another women and her views. True, every one gets burned, but I still believe women play games more than men. I know a few guys that cheat on their significant other, but I know a whole lot more women that do. As far as knowing when you find the right one goes? I cant even get it right, but I guess ya just know somehow.

osupa05
06-12-2005, 04:58 PM
I guess ya just know somehow.

I guess that's it. I always just thought that I would know. Now, I'm not so sure! I posted something about this guy, and my relationship with him on the boardroom to bedroom site. There's alot of background stuff about our relationship, but I won't bore you with the details. I guess the main thing is that there are certain things that I'm not sure if I'm just supposed to look over or if my having doubts about them means that it's not meant to be. I always thought that I would be easy to forget.. not that I think that I'm not special. I guess I just know that there are tons of fish in the sea so to speak... so why wouldn't he be just as happy, if not happier with someone else. I know that deep down I'm scared to commit to someone... because when I do, he's stuck with me. And honestly, I have a list... I'm beginning to think that there's nobody out there who comes close to my list... so, do I let myself fall for this guy because he promises that he will take care of me? I'm not trying to lead him on... He knows that I like him, that I'm attracted to him. He also knows what I believe, and what I want out of life. I've also told him that I'm scared about everything... about falling in love, about making a commitment, and I asked him for time. The only thing he said to me was "I understand". So, now, I'm taking some time. Just hanging out, concentrating on school. Yes, Mariner, I agree that women play more games than men. I don't know why, and I don't know if it will ever change. All I can say is that I'm sorry... and strive not to play them.

Leon, I hear ya.. I'm not a big fan of religon... I don't know a soul at the church I go to, so no one would miss me either... but that stinks that noone said anything to you... The only thing I can say is for myself...when I don't go, I miss it. Church is actually one of the things seems to always be an "issue" between the me and the guys that I've dated! But, that's a whole other story! Take care guys... I'm going to go play some softball...

kschopfer
06-15-2005, 08:02 PM
Maybe if some people looked at it this way:
A new Love a new chance, start from scratch. We are given a chance to make it a fresh start and a new chance to Love someone even more than we did the last time.
That is what new love is for. To give us hope that there is honest loving people in this world and that there really is a chance to meet that sole mate or one person you've been looking for all your life. Because you take with you from the last relationship "whether good or bad", You take all the wonderful things you are capable of contributing to the new relationship. That only you know and the last person you shared it with, how great it can be. I am a firm believer in God. And God puts love in our hearts souls and mind to be fulfilled. You can't give up hope.
Believe me I've been through those tough times where I did not want to love again. But I know we would not be alive and well without it.
So, I'm telling you open you heart. It is the only way to get over what bad you feel, and forgive that person and Move on. When you hold back your heart, it only breaks others the way you've been broken. So, think about it. There should be more love in this world.

Leon
06-15-2005, 10:03 PM
Osupa, women play more games because they know that whatever happens, they need only to set foot inside a nightclub to have another man. Men put more work into relationships than women do because they can never tell when the next one will come along.....next week, next month, next year....or longer.

Me, I'm going to remain single until I find another new best friend who happens to be female. Then I'll risk that friendship for a kiss. That means no serious dates with anyone right off the bat.