View Full Version : New Main Street Garage



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Pete
09-14-2012, 01:15 PM
431 W. Main (http://goo.gl/maps/h8vi7)
owner=City of OKC
cost=$19 million
architect=TAP
height=9 levels
acreage=.72
830 spaces

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/maingaragewiki1.jpg
Information & Latest News
11/21/13: Housing RFP to be reissued (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-panel-trying-again-to-develop-housing-atop-new-garage/article/3906816)
11/22/12: Proposals sought for housing above garage (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-group-seeks-proposals-for-housing-in-deep-deuce-atop-garage/article/3730699)
11/13/12: $19 million building permit (http://www.okc.gov/Access/Cap/CapDetail.aspx?Module=Permits&TabName=Permits&capID1=12BRE&capID2=00000&capID3=08791&agencyCode=OKC&IsToShowInspection=)
Links
County Assessor Record 1 (http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/AN-R.asp?ACCOUNTNO=R010018512)
County Assessor Record 2 (http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/AN-R.asp?ACCOUNTNO=R010018460)
Gallery

Spartan
09-14-2012, 01:17 PM
Disappointing. The design looks like crap.

G.Walker
09-14-2012, 01:30 PM
Disappointing. The design looks like crap.

Well what do you expect? At the end of the day, its just a parking garage. And you have to realize TAP was given a really aggressive time frame to have a design completed, since the City wants this project started as soon as possible.

BoulderSooner
09-14-2012, 01:34 PM
OCURA/city reserved the right to put residential on top ... so i would bet the the structure will have to be built support it ..

wschnitt
09-14-2012, 01:36 PM
Hopefully the colored lines are lights like the Devon Tower

LakeEffect
09-14-2012, 01:36 PM
Disappointing. The design looks like crap.

Explain why it looks like crap.

G.Walker
09-14-2012, 01:39 PM
I don't understand the reason for the colored turbines, if that is what they are?

HangryHippo
09-14-2012, 01:39 PM
It looks hokey to me. I thought they had said they were going to try and fit it in with the surrounding properties, but I may be making that up.

Pete
09-14-2012, 01:50 PM
I believe the color panels will be similar to the ones on this LEED-certified garage in Santa Monica, CA:

http://www.inhabitat.com/wp-content/uploads/leedgarage1.jpg

TechArch
09-14-2012, 01:52 PM
The middle screen looks like a Rand Elliott knock off and the stair towers look like a 60s office building. I understand the constraints that the city probably put on TAP, but I was hoping for a much better design.

G.Walker
09-14-2012, 01:56 PM
These are just schematic/conceptual designs, I am sure there will be some tweaking before final design is approved.

Just the facts
09-14-2012, 02:00 PM
It looks hokey to me. I thought they had said they were going to try and fit it in with the surrounding properties, but I may be making that up.

I like it, but you are right, they did say they would try to match the surrounding area. I assumed they meant the current surrounding area but maybe they meant a future state that isn't known to everyone yet. As for residential, this is tall enough. Put the residential on another parking lot near by (there are plenty to pick from).

Pete
09-14-2012, 02:07 PM
I counted about 600 spaces in this structure.

For comparison, the Walker / Sheridan garage has about 1,100 and the Century Center about 800.


I'm sure a top priority was squeezing in as many spaces as possible in a relatively small footprint.

BDP
09-14-2012, 03:12 PM
I don't really mind it. I mean, it will be better looking than any of our other parking garages and it will have retail in it. If we could get all of our parking garages to include retail, it certainly would mitigate the void and urban barrier they usually create. I like that it will be something different. Most likely if they tried to emulate the rest of that block, it would look stoopid. Think of a modern attempt to copy a buidling like the Hightower or Montgomery. That NEVER works out. There is nothing wrong with new structures looking new and of their time. I have little faith that trying to design a parking lot based on historic structures would not be watered down and disney-looking.

Pete, I immediate thought of the Santa Monica garage, too. It looks cool at night, bleh in the daytime (pretty much like the rest of LA :) )

adaniel
09-14-2012, 03:28 PM
I think the colored lights thing is kind of groovy. There is really becoming a nice theme with LED lighting in downtown and this will fit in nicely.

Certainly better than any other parking garage I've seen, except maybe the OU stadium one (although I can see the "disneyesque" critiques with that), but at the end of the day its a parking garage. Only so much you can do there.

It would have been nicer had housing been included.

Mr. Cotter
09-14-2012, 03:35 PM
I like it, especially if they think that much square footage can be filled with retail and dining.

catch22
09-14-2012, 05:09 PM
Am I the only one who likes the design and overall look?

Pete (or somebody), the partitions named "Soft"; are those retail spots?

Spartan
09-14-2012, 05:09 PM
Explain why it looks like crap.

It's a grey monolith where they said they would compliment a historic district. They just took their elementary school design and changed it from a white monolith to a grey one, with the cheapest smallest LED touch the lipstick the pig.

This is what happens when architects get into a pattern of repetition with too much work. I thought better of TAP... This is an embarrassment for them.

Devon's garage is better and they never set up a bogus pretense to boost a historic area.

Snowman
09-14-2012, 05:14 PM
I don't understand the reason for the colored turbines, if that is what they are?

They went over so well at bicentennial park, possibly creating an entire district around them.

Spartan
09-14-2012, 06:04 PM
If only that element was still included...

wsucougz
09-14-2012, 07:26 PM
As a parking garage, it's pretty much going to be a monolith no matter what. It's urban, has storefront, and doesn't use a bunch of eifs. It's not that bad. It's a parking garage.

metro
09-14-2012, 10:43 PM
Disappointing. The design looks like crap.

I agree, very underwhelming, looks like Rand Elliot nonhuman design.

kevinpate
09-15-2012, 02:33 AM
If the residential has been 86'd, such a pity.

1972ford
09-15-2012, 12:06 PM
Wonder what they will charge for parking now guess the price of going to court will go up now since we have to park there or is the garage going to be monthly parking? Too bad the city couldn't place this in a way to quite down the train noise but then again I bet alot of car alarms would go off every day if they tried. Just wonder if the $20 seatbelt tickets are going to run me $30 or more now.(i have a doctor note stating that a seatbelt is hazardous to my health ie deformed chest) I have to go to the judge to get them waved cause the police that pull me over think I am full of crap about not legally having to wear a seatbelt

catch22
09-15-2012, 02:30 PM
What is wrong with it exactly? It's not EFIS, not a blank streetwall, has retail on all sides facing the street, occupies the entire vacant parcel (density), attempts some sort of design other than a bare parking garage... Disappointed I don't see the housing. But it's possible that could come through a later addition.

Obviously it could be better, but what makes it "terrible"?

wschnitt
09-15-2012, 02:54 PM
What is wrong with it exactly? It's not EFIS, not a blank streetwall, has retail on all sides facing the street, occupies the entire vacant parcel (density), attempts some sort of design other than a bare parking garage... Disappointed I don't see the housing. But it's possible that could come through a later addition.

Obviously it could be better, but what makes it "terrible"?

I agree. People are wanting to protest this?

Bellaboo
09-15-2012, 04:46 PM
Wonder what they will charge for parking now guess the price of going to court will go up now since we have to park there or is the garage going to be monthly parking? Too bad the city couldn't place this in a way to quite down the train noise but then again I bet alot of car alarms would go off every day if they tried. Just wonder if the $20 seatbelt tickets are going to run me $30 or more now.(i have a doctor note stating that a seatbelt is hazardous to my health ie deformed chest) I have to go to the judge to get them waved cause the police that pull me over think I am full of crap about not legally having to wear a seatbelt

This is a new one on me.......never heard of such a thing.

Bellaboo
09-15-2012, 04:47 PM
What is wrong with it exactly? It's not EFIS, not a blank streetwall, has retail on all sides facing the street, occupies the entire vacant parcel (density), attempts some sort of design other than a bare parking garage... Disappointed I don't see the housing. But it's possible that could come through a later addition.

Obviously it could be better, but what makes it "terrible"?

I don't think it's that bad, like i've said earlier, do you want an empty lot ?

hoya
09-15-2012, 05:03 PM
Wonder what they will charge for parking now guess the price of going to court will go up now since we have to park there or is the garage going to be monthly parking? Too bad the city couldn't place this in a way to quite down the train noise but then again I bet alot of car alarms would go off every day if they tried. Just wonder if the $20 seatbelt tickets are going to run me $30 or more now.(i have a doctor note stating that a seatbelt is hazardous to my health ie deformed chest) I have to go to the judge to get them waved cause the police that pull me over think I am full of crap about not legally having to wear a seatbelt

What in the holy F are you talking about?

Steve
09-15-2012, 05:42 PM
Hoya, that was my reaction. 1972ford, I don't think you're communicating what you think you're communicating. Or maybe you are.

Just the facts
09-15-2012, 07:28 PM
1972Ford is concerned the new parking garage will cost him more than he normally pays when going to court.

Now back to the parking garge comments. I can't figure it out either Catch 22. Other than not blending with the surronding area I don't see anything wrong with the proposal. As you pointed out, it meets all the urbanism requirments. I'm not even disappointed about it not having residential. In fact, with residential on top it might even be too tall. I prefer the buildings stay in scale with each other.

catch22
09-15-2012, 08:40 PM
I don't even have a problem of it not blending in. I have travelled many places, and I see all the time very different styles of architexture built literally right next to each other in very dense urban environments.

Just the facts
09-16-2012, 07:15 AM
Since it faces the Civic area I would have prefered for it to keep an Art-Deco style on that side, but I am happy it just isn't all wrapped in reflective glass (the rich man's EIFS).

Pete
09-16-2012, 08:52 AM
The plans show the top level as parking.

okcfollower
09-16-2012, 10:44 AM
I wonder if they would consider a green roof? http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/bentley-1.jpg

This is oklahoma...it would turn into a brown roof...

Spartan
09-16-2012, 12:01 PM
This is oklahoma...it would turn into a brown roof...

Have you ever seen any of the green rooftops around town??

Praedura
09-16-2012, 12:21 PM
First off, I think the design sketch from TAP looks fine, although I have a few comments about it.

To get myself oriented, I'm using this older photo:

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1059/4734132628_68c5585142_o_d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjmccray/4734132628/in/photostream)

Sorry, I know it's a few years old (Devon Tower hasn't emerged yet over the parking garage). But it is pointed right where the action is going to occur. The north side will immediately face the loop around the City Hall, overtaking the current parking lot. Looks like the smaller building next to the Hightower is going to be removed.

Judging by that space, the new building is going to be impressively massive in width (you can't even see the full width in that photo above). That's quite a space to span there. And the first level retail will be awesome. This will change the whole block tremendously.

Now, emerging from the (future) retail looking north, you're going to have the City Hall to the left, the library to the right, and the Museum of Art straight ahead. In my mind, those two newer buildings (the library and museum) provide the most logical pieces to match against.

Library
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3067/2993073884_ca17f70d2f_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kojo_46/2993073884)

Museum
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4l_aAHbDL7A/TkseB_ZwicI/AAAAAAAACf4/6zENN6NABqI/s1600/20110728-5-OklahomaCityMuseumOfArt.jpg (http://orangesanctuary.blogspot.com/2011_07_01_archive.html)

So I think it would be best if the cladding/exterior of the new garage had a white/light-gray coloration. And instead of the multi-colored panels, just stick to predominantly blue/silver (could be a mix of several shades for variety).

Otherwise, the design looks good to me.

Anyway, that's my $0.02.

Pete
09-16-2012, 12:37 PM
The smaller building just west of the Hightower will not be removed:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/garage1.jpg

Praedura
09-16-2012, 12:50 PM
The smaller building just west of the Hightower will not be removed:

oops! I looked a little too quickly at the maps. Ok, I see.

Pete
09-16-2012, 12:51 PM
Yeah, the renderings are a bit confusing because it does appear to be gone but it's actually attached to the Hightower on the south side.

Spartan
09-16-2012, 04:51 PM
I think that the building span should be broken up a little bit with height changes. TAP also said they would compliment the art deco nature of the area... I wonder if they even attempted that at all.

Just the facts
09-16-2012, 05:40 PM
I think that the building span should be broken up a little bit with height changes.

Darn good point Spartan. If I was going to change anything that would be it (maybe even change facade styles where the heights change). Hopefully with 3 other buildings on the block it will come out okay.

hoya
09-17-2012, 10:53 AM
1972Ford is concerned the new parking garage will cost him more than he normally pays when going to court.


You can't park there when going to court. It's city employee and water parking only. It might cost him more if he has to go in to pay his water bill in person, but that's it.

Pete
09-17-2012, 10:55 AM
You can't park there when going to court. It's city employee and water parking only. It might cost him more if he has to go in to pay his water bill in person, but that's it.

Are you sure about this?

It's to be run by COPTA and they typically offer monthly and hourly parking on a first-come, first-served basis.

hoya
09-17-2012, 12:32 PM
Are you sure about this?

It's to be run by COPTA and they typically offer monthly and hourly parking on a first-come, first-served basis.

I mean you currently can't park there. I'm sure that will change when the garage gets built, but right now, it's only water customer parking and city employees. 100% certain. I cut across that empty spot every day on my way to the courthouse. :)

David Pollard
09-17-2012, 12:42 PM
I don't chime in too often anymore, but as this design is truly horrendous, I have no choice. There has clearly been no attempt whatsoever to blend in with the surrounding structures nor the urban fabric of that historical area. I mean, really, there are SO many ways to have tasteful parking garages without creating such a monstrosity. Shame on you TAP, no matter what your briefing, nor timescale, this is a disgrace.

Pete
09-17-2012, 12:53 PM
You can bet they also have some pretty serious budget constraints.

RickOKC
09-17-2012, 02:43 PM
What's disappointing with developments such as these is not the finished product vs. an empty lot. It's the finished product vs. the potential of the empty lot that is disappointing.

CurtisJ
09-17-2012, 03:04 PM
Too bad the city couldn't place this in a way to quite down the train noise but then again I bet alot of car alarms would go off every day if they tried.

Train noise? I thought the quiet zone that was being implemented two years ago solved that issue... <sarcasm>

Just the facts
09-17-2012, 07:46 PM
What's disappointing with developments such as these is not the finished product vs. an empty lot. It's the finished product vs. the potential of the empty lot that is disappointing.

A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. OKC has tried the 'potential' angle for 40 years; it doesn't work. What does work is taking up all the space. As more space is used up the available space is filled with higher density projects. Eventually the low density stuff gets replaced with higher density, and the process repeats.

BoulderSooner
09-18-2012, 07:25 AM
A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. OKC has tried the 'potential' angle for 40 years; it doesn't work. What does work is taking up all the space. As more space is used up the available space is filled with higher density projects. Eventually the low density stuff gets replaced with higher density, and the process repeats.

and we have tons and tons of space

Spartan
09-18-2012, 12:41 PM
A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. OKC has tried the 'potential' angle for 40 years; it doesn't work. What does work is taking up all the space. As more space is used up the available space is filled with higher density projects. Eventually the low density stuff gets replaced with higher density, and the process repeats.

I'm not aware of anyone's concerns that this project is too low density...

Instead a public authority is building a monstrosity that will be considered even uglier than the EKG garages in time. That's a concern.

RickOKC
09-18-2012, 09:06 PM
I understand Just the Facts' point, but I agree with Spartan. The concern here is not a density issue; it's a quality issue. In what way is the overall cause helped by low-quality development--regardless of that development's density? Filling an empty space with poor-quality development only creates an obstacle for subsequent higher-quality development while attracting additional sub-standard development (think Lower Bricktown).

Just the facts
09-19-2012, 02:13 PM
I guess I am just not seeing the same 'crappy' design you guy are seeing. Is it my favorite? No. Is it Santa Fe bad? Not even close.

catch22
09-19-2012, 04:16 PM
I guess I am just not seeing the same 'crappy' design you guy are seeing. Is it my favorite? No. Is it Santa Fe bad? Not even close.

I think I am looking at a different set of renderings as the rest of the forum. It's not bad, not saying it is the greatest either though.

ljbab728
09-19-2012, 09:26 PM
As most should know, even if we had a parking garage designed by Frank Lloyd Wright, we would immediately have many detractors posting here. A lot of people just can't wait for designs to come out so they can start complaining.

Spartan
09-20-2012, 06:55 PM
Those color strips are supposed to invoke Chihuly?? Fail.

Chihuly's lobby piece has an instantly recognizable form. That form is not rectangles.

I do give McDermid kudos with the granite storefronts. But let's pay homage to the surroundings in MEANINGFUL ways... :rolleyes:

catch22
09-20-2012, 07:47 PM
Steve, (or anyone else in the know) what are the chances of housing being added to this?

If so, would they convert the top 3 floors to housing or would they add 3 additional floors?

wschnitt
09-20-2012, 08:18 PM
I had an interesting conversation today. I'd like to read the downtown housing and retail studies. It could be very possible that we could shoot ourselves in the foot by adding retail and housing on this project before Deep Deuce and MidTown have had a chance to grow large enough to sustain any retail within the CBD. An interesting perspective that made me stop and think.


I think this is the inherent problem when the government enters the marketplace, here they are entering the retail-space market.

Pete
09-20-2012, 08:34 PM
I agree the space could be used for office or something similar until there is real demand for retail.

Devon's garage is right across the street and they purposely blocked out their storefronts for now because they knew the timing was way too premature.