I can only think of a hand full of developers that could have pulled this of...Wiggins, Ellard, Mckown, and Brooks. Wiggins is tied up with projects in Tulsa, and Brooks has got The Edge, and East Bricktown Apartments he is focusing on. Ellard has some new things she is working on...and McKown is getting ready to push out a new project in Deep Deuce. So I don't really think its a cost issue, its that the major players who could have received financing to pull this off just don't have the time...IMO.

I really don't see how this would cost any more than some of the other construction that is going on downtown. My guess is the available developers weren't convinced these things would sell.

There could be lots of legitimate reasons for high costs. Sometimes we get sticker shock here. Urban construction costs are not the same as suburban and the construction challenges are entirely different. Putting more floors on top of a parking garage isn't the same as pouring a slab and sticking a few floors up. Things like - where you put boilers, chillers, etc., how you exhaust the fumes from the garage so they don't infiltrate the living structures, separate and controlled access, etc.

I believe Devon construction came to about $420 per foot did it not? It is easy to believe this was a cost issue too. The market demand has to catch up with the cost.

I think Steve's article stated that rental units would need to run about $3.50/square foot. That would make a 750 sq ft apartment about $2600/month. Know anyone in OKC that would pay that? There's lots of special safety and structural features that wouldn't be needed even in a regular high rise (car exhaust ventilation being a big one). Truthfully I haven't seen a lot of these types of projects, if at all, outside of New York and LA, where space is at a premium and the market could bear such high costs.

I wouldn't consider the failure of this as somehow indicative of housing demand in the CBD. This was just not realistic. It will still be a pretty cool parking garage.

Exactly.

Yes, and as Steve also did a good job of pointing out, even though this didn't work out it was a forward-thinking and creative attempt.


I'm really impressed thus far with Cathy O'Connor, the new OCURA and the Alliance for Economic Development.

Truthfully I haven't seen a lot of these types of projects, if at all, outside of New York and LA, where space is at a premium and the market could bear such high costs.


You haven't seen a lot of what kind of projects; apartments over a parking garage? There are tens of thousands of these all over the country. One is under construction in Deep Deuce right now.

You haven't seen a lot of what kind of projects; apartments over a parking garage? There are tens of thousands of these all over the country. One is under construction in Deep Deuce right now.

It's an anti Urbanist conspiracy. It can't cost that much. It is done all the time.

It's an anti Urbanist conspiracy. It can't cost that much. It is done all the time.

I'm not doubting it is expensive. I just want to know why it is cheaper to build 3 stories over a 2 story parking garage in Deep Deuce than it is to build 3 stories over a 10 story garage when the garage is being built for free or at a substantial discount to the residential developer and there is zero land acquisition costs. Do you know why?

I don't think anyone on here is going to be able to provide that answer for you Kerry.

I'm not doubting it is expensive. I just want to know why it is cheaper to build 3 stories over a 2 story parking garage in Deep Deuce than it is to build 3 stories over a 10 story garage when the garage is being built for free or at a substantial discount to the residential developer and there is zero land acquisition costs. Do you know why?

I think this is a valid question the City should address, but as usual, probably won't.

I'm not doubting it is expensive. I just want to know why it is cheaper to build 3 stories over a 2 story parking garage in Deep Deuce than it is to build 3 stories over a 10 story garage when the garage is being built for free or at a substantial discount to the residential developer and there is zero land acquisition costs.

Very good points.

How much would adding residential to this project slow it down?
I'm asking because it seems to me that the city has this project in the express lane and I get the impression that city officials don't want anything to slow them down with this.

I'm not doubting it is expensive. I just want to know why it is cheaper to build 3 stories over a 2 story parking garage in Deep Deuce than it is to build 3 stories over a 10 story garage when the garage is being built for free or at a substantial discount to the residential developer and there is zero land acquisition costs. Do you know why?

Three stories over a two-story parking garage (podium) can be done with stick construction. Three stories over a 10-story building requires steel construction. Kerry, I can't give you an answer you're going to like. I'm not advocating for the housing not to be built. I'm only giving readers a glimpse at some of the leading reasons developers are citing for not pursuing this project. If city officials didn't want to entertain this project, they wouldn't have agreed to the RFP. My understanding was the timetable allowed for housing to be designed and built concurrently with the garage construction.

Can someone clarify if the garage will be built with a proper foundation to add the housing later?

I'm not doubting it is expensive. I just want to know why it is cheaper to build 3 stories over a 2 story parking garage in Deep Deuce than it is to build 3 stories over a 10 story garage when the garage is being built for free or at a substantial discount to the residential developer and there is zero land acquisition costs. Do you know why?

doubtful that there were 0 land acquisition costs that is usually not how OCURA works


Can someone clarify if the garage will be built with a proper foundation to add the housing later?

doubtful i think that was something the developer had to pay for

Three stories over a two-story parking garage (podium) can be done with stick construction. Three stories over a 10-story building requires steel construction. Kerry, I can't give you an answer you're going to like.

I don't have to like it; I just have to be willing to be able to accept it. I think you probably provided a pretty good explanation in those first two sentences. My guess is that what made it unfeasible is that it was limited to 3 stories. A 10 story addition might have been cost effective but would have slowed the project down too much. Bottom line, there simply wasn't enough units to recoup the cost. I can live with that.

To add, this development would have also lacked the ammenities that would have made the price point more tolerable. No common area, no pool, no exercise room, etc...

Can someone clarify if the garage will be built with a proper foundation to add the housing later?

That's what I was wondering. Will it be possible to add on later if interest increases?

Can we get the pictures in the article tab at the top resized smaller?

Three stories over a two-story parking garage (podium) can be done with stick construction. Three stories over a 10-story building requires steel construction. Kerry, I can't give you an answer you're going to like. I'm not advocating for the housing not to be built. I'm only giving readers a glimpse at some of the leading reasons developers are citing for not pursuing this project. If city officials didn't want to entertain this project, they wouldn't have agreed to the RFP. My understanding was the timetable allowed for housing to be designed and built concurrently with the garage construction.

Although my point was that, IIRC, the Maywood Lofts are steel construction over a two story parking garage. So, they had to pay for the foundation for the garage and the steel construction. And yet sales prices are about what you would expect to generate rental prices of about $1.50 a square foot. I wonder if it's not more of an excuse, because has been said, the major players are all rather busy right now and they're not sure what the reception would be. I think they'd be well received, personally, and with the view, I don't think people would mind paying higher end per square foot.

It's tricky.

I don't have to like it; I just have to be willing to be able to accept it. I think you probably provided a pretty good explanation in those first two sentences. My guess is that what made it unfeasible is that it was limited to 3 stories. A 10 story addition might have been cost effective but would have slowed the project down too much. Bottom line, there simply wasn't enough units to recoup the cost. I can live with that.

To add, this development would have also lacked the ammenities that would have made the price point more tolerable. No common area, no pool, no exercise room, etc...

To add 10 stories on top most likely would have raised the cost of the lower structure.

I think better planning on the design to start with would have helped manage the costs better. To design as one design an residential tower with parking below vs. design a garage and allow a design to be added.

That said, people have to realize that urban construction of a high rise nature is expensive.

I don't have to like it; I just have to be willing to be able to accept it. I think you probably provided a pretty good explanation in those first two sentences. My guess is that what made it unfeasible is that it was limited to 3 stories. A 10 story addition might have been cost effective but would have slowed the project down too much. Bottom line, there simply wasn't enough units to recoup the cost. I can live with that.

To add, this development would have also lacked the ammenities that would have made the price point more tolerable. No common area, no pool, no exercise room, etc...

To add 10 stories on top most likely would have raised the cost of the lower structure.

I think better planning on the design to start with would have helped manage the costs better. To design as one design an residential tower with parking below vs. design a garage and allow a design to be added.

That said, people have to realize that urban construction of a high rise nature is expensive.

New Parking Garage To Be Built In Downtown OKC - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/21526925/new-parking-garage-to-be-built-in-downtown-okc)

This is why I'm on OKCTalk more than the local news.

There's also an article in today's Journal Record, but I don't have access. Perhaps someone here can post it for us?

Also, can we please get the pictures at the top in the article section condensed like they are for other projects?

This is why I'm on OKCTalk more than the local news.I know, I know, I thought I'd post it anyways/ Provide a few laughs here and there. ;)

I just heard several of the interested developers talking about this. Two concerns were the fact that to have parking close to the housing, people would have to drive up and down 11 stories daily. Of course, if you're living there, and we had decent downtown transit, you might not be driving daily. I suggested that the people who lived there be given parking on the first level, with an adjacent elevator, but didn't hear much response. The other problem they discussed was the difficulty/expense of getting their building materials up there. Perhaps existing rental prices wouldn't support the expense and luxury downtown for sale housing is too iffy.

Betts, you are right about the location of the parking and how often people would be driving anyhow. Instead of reserving the top floor for residents it should have been the bottom floors.

^ seems like an easy fix. ..

The other problem they discussed was the difficulty/expense of getting their building materials up there.

LOL, isn't that something that is dealt with every day on multiple story buildings?

I certainly understand the concern of residents having to go up 11 stories every day for parking, but what in the hell are they talking about "difficulty/expense of getting their building materials up there"?! Isn't that what a crane is for? And how does any other tall building in any other city in the world manage to get built?

Between this and the Brewers "needing to feed their children", I've had enough of the bull**** excuses...

I'm just reporting what I heard. But we're all free to develop it if we think we can make a profit. I do know if they raise their prices to cover expenses, people will complain about that too.

Apparently they've yet to hear of an exciting new technology called an elevator!

Apparently they've yet to hear of an exciting new technology called an elevator!

They would have to use the elevators regardless. Aren't we talking about the most frequent and local users having to constantly maneuver many floors of driving up and down the garage?

Umm...they could drive the material to the top!

Umm...they could drive the material to the top!

It's very complicated. LOL

Wait a minute, not so fast... (says Cathy)

Renewed effort launched for housing atop new Oklahoma City parking garage | News OK (http://newsok.com/renewed-effort-launched-for-housing-atop-new-oklahoma-city-parking-garage/article/3764861)

Really hoping this thing goes through! Would love to see housing here and would be cooler to have this thing taller. ;)

'111% occupied'. Does that mean people have said screw the yellow parking stripes?

'111% occupied'. Does that mean people have said screw the yellow parking stripes?

I drive a SUV, and I'm subletting space in the back of it to a guy who drives a Smart Car.

'111% occupied'. Does that mean people have said screw the yellow parking stripes?

My guess is they over-sold the monthly parking permits.

Yeah, maybe sold 111% of parking permits, but I can assure you there IS NO PARKING PROBLEM DOWNTOWN. We've already established this, it's just a perception problem, as well as an I WANT CONVENIENT PARKING ACROSS THE STREET "PROBLEM". The Garages I've seen usually always have at least a few parking spaces, and after 5pm are ghost towns. This is not a problem. Overnight parking in this city is virtually non-existent in the DT Core, and until we get more housing, retail, and a decent transit system, we won't be using the garages for highest and best use.

My guess is they over-sold the monthly parking permits.

that is what rick gain stated at the last council meeting

Over selling maximizes usage. Every week you are going to have a percentage of your workforce on vacation, sick, out of town for meetings, etc. Your entire workforce is never in the building 100% of the time.

Over selling maximizes usage. Every week you are going to have a percentage of your workforce on vacation, sick, out of town for meetings, etc. Your entire workforce is never in the building 100% of the time.

Although, they have oversold my parking garage at work, and it's very annoying not to find a space when you've paid for one. It happens with fair regularity. Now, I suspect people are sneaking in who've never paid as well, but that doesn't help when you're squeaking in to work a minute late and you have nowhere to park.

Although, they have oversold my parking garage at work, and it's very annoying not to find a space when you've paid for one. It happens with fair regularity. Now, I suspect people are sneaking in who've never paid as well, but that doesn't help when you're squeaking in to work a minute late and you have nowhere to park.

Yep, it's annoying from a practical standpoint. Beancounters don't see it that way. There is a factor of "emptiness" they factor into parking. For convenience reasons, you don't need to have 499/500 spots occupied, as it begins to become a negative.

It's the same for selling too many seats on airlines. They factor in that a certain percentage of people will cancel or not show up, and on those rare occasions when everyone is there, they just deal with the unhappy customer who doesn't have a seat and put them up in a hotel. I think by 2020 our downtown will function very differently than it does today. The streetcar, new towers, and lots of new housing will really change how this place works.

Over selling maximizes usage. Every week you are going to have a percentage of your workforce on vacation, sick, out of town for meetings, etc. Your entire workforce is never in the building 100% of the time.

That is definitely a most valid point! :)

Building permit from Flintco today to move a temporary building onto this site...

Looks like they are setting up a construction office and getting ready to break ground.

Story in the Gazette yesterday about this garage, stated that previous study claims that even after this garage is completed with 850 spaces, the CBD will still be in need of 2000 more parking spaces. I believe they said this garage would be completed in April of 2014.

Oklahoma Gazette News: Downtown parking (http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-17789-parking-avenues.html)

In the agenda for the next OCURA meeting, they will re-issue the RFP for office or residential on top of this structure.

It was explained that they did receive some interest after the first deadline had passed, so hopefully we'll see some solid proposals this time.

I think it's clear OCURA wants housing upstairs. I do not think they would have pushed it so hard, and then reissued the RFP if they weren't.

Glad to see some dedication to getting new ideas going.

If they quickly get good proposals, can they just continue the construction as one phase, or is the die cast that it will be two phases?

Fence is up, equipment on site.

Main Street Parking Garage (June 10 2013) - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/williamhider/sets/72157634062988232/)

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3698/9014051810_38479a566f_h.jpg

And here we go.

There are almost too many developments underway right now to keep track.

I was just thinking about normal downtown people wondering, "When will it stop?!"