View Full Version : Retail offering explosion..Omaha/OKC/Tulsa



Omaha Cowboy
06-04-2005, 05:19 PM
Omaha is experiencing a retail offering explosion. I thought many of you would be interested in what's going on in Omaha, a similarly sized midwestern metro just to the north..How does this compare to retail offerings in OKC or Tulsa?..This is a recent article last month from Omaha City-Weekly (of of 2 weekly alternatives in Omaha) writen by Jeff Beals:


'For the past few years, retail development has been
red hot in Omaha. Retail remains the strongest sector in Omaha’s commercial real
estate market with a very healthy occupancy rate of 94 percent.

When only six percent of the market’s retail space is available for lease,
developers and investors are emboldened. Shopping plazas start popping up like
crazy. In 2004, Omaha added approximately 2 million square feet of retail space,
almost double the annual average.

As the retail activity has accelerated in the Omaha area, so have the rent
prices retailers must pay. Along West Center Road and West Maple Road, retailers
are commonly paying more than $20 per square foot per year to rent quality space
in new strip centers. A retail plaza recently completed near 72nd and Dodge
streets has demanded rents of $35 per square foot, a very large price tag for a
mid-sized, Midwestern city like Omaha.

To fill Omaha’s new shopping centers, both national and local retailers are
expanding rapidly. In the past year and a half, approximately 50 national retail
and restaurant chains have entered the Omaha market (or have announced plans to
enter the market) for the first time.

Omaha’s new retailers include Scheels All-Sports, Bed Bath & Beyond, J.Jill, Sur
La Table, Justice, Z Galerie, Kirklands, DSW, Coldwater Creek, Joseph A. Bank,
Pottery Barn, Steinmart, California Closets, Blue Willi’s, Jungle Fit 2nd Wind
Exercise Equipment, Babies R Us and White House Black Market.

More are on the way. Within the next year, the Omaha area will add inPlay, Dave
& Busters, Vino 120, Francesca’s Collections, Bass Pro Shops and Whole Foods
Market. If the Nebraska Legislature has the courage to pass Legislative Bill
500, Cabela’s will probably build in Sarpy County. Costco, a national competitor
to Sam’s Club, has been considering sites in Omaha for quite some time now.

National restaurant chains have been particularly bullish on the Omaha market.
In the past 18 months, we have welcomed the arrival of Mimi’s Café, Cheeburger
Cheeburger, Kona Grill, Chipotle, Camille’s Sidewalk Café, Panchero’s Mexican
Grill, Cold Stone Creamery, Cheeseburger in Paradise, Flat Top Grill, Qdoba;
Cici’s Pizza, Roly Poly Sandwich Shop, Noodles & Company, Johnny’s Italian
Steakhouse, Ted’s Montana Grill, Paradise Bakery & Café, Texas Roadhouse,
Colton’s Steakhouse and Flemming Steakhouse.

We will soon add Joey’s Only Seafood, Tin Star, Caribou Coffee, Mo’s
Southwestern Grill and Firebirds Rocky Mountain Grill. Several chains are
rumored to be considering the Omaha market including Jimmy John’s, Granite City,
On the Border, the Cheesecake Factory and others.

Last year’s most significant retail construction project was the
600,000–square–foot Village Pointe, Nebraska’s largest “lifestyle” center. A
lifestyle center is an outdoor mall designed in a village-like setting with less
emphasis on department stores and more emphasis on restaurants and entertainment
businesses.

The same company that developed Village Pointe, RED Development, is now
beginning construction on a 900,000-square-foot shopping center at 72nd Street
and Highway 370. Known as Papillion Promenade, the center will feature a
lifestyle component plus a grocery store and discount retailers. Groundbreaking
takes place Wednesday, May 18.

Another major project will soon be under construction in north central Omaha.
Crews are rapidly demolishing the former Vicker’s plant near 72nd street and
Sorensen Parkway. In its place will soon stand the 600,000–square–foot Sorensen
Park Plaza, which will bring needed retail and restaurant services to an
underserved part of town. Target will anchor the center. The developers are
close to announcing several other large tenants including a pet store, office
supply store, a discount retailer and a movie theater.

While the West Maple Road corridor has been expanding for 10 years, its growth
has accelerated lately. At the southwest corner of 144th streets and West Maple,
the Shoppes at Grayhawk, which are already home to popular retailers such as
Lowe’s Home Improvement, Michael’s, Red Robin and Chipotle, will be adding a
40,000-square-foot, two-story building. At 156th streets and West Maple Road, a
massive Hy-Vee grocery store has recently opened and a couple strip centers are
under construction closer to the street. Pad sites are being reserved for at
least two restaurants. At the Thomsen Mile, northwest of 168th street and West
Maple, Wal-Mart is building a 200,000-plus-square-foot super center. The Shoppes
at Thomsen Mile will sit adjacent to the new Wal-Mart and will house several national retailers.

Another hot retail growth corridor is West Center Road west of 168th Street. The
Lakeside and Legacy developments are now open and mostly filled with retailers
such as Camille’s Sidewalk Café, Roja Mexican Grill and Upstream. Further west,
at 173rd Street, construction is continuing on the eight-acre Tivoli project.
Announced tenants include Greek Islands, Vino 120, Runza and Cheeburger
Cheeburger. The number of restaurants along West Center is staggering; a
colleague of mine recently counted exactly 50 between 168th and 185th streets.
Just as it seems West Center Road retail would finally reach its limit,
developers are now planning a 150,000–square–foot shopping center northwest of
192nd street and West Center Road. Lazlo’s, a popular Lincoln restaurant, has
said publicly that it plans to open in that center.

Retail growth is taking place in the middle of Omaha as well. A new shopping
center at 72nd and Dodge streets quickly filled with Chipotle, Starbuck’s,
Sprint and Noodles & Co. At 72nd and Pacific, the Shoppes at Ak-Sar-Ben will
soon open southeast of 72nd and Pacific streets. This 60,000–square–foot center
will include Bed Bath & Beyond, Caribou Coffee, Eileen’s Cookies, Qdoba,
Quizno’s and Joey’s Only Seafood.

The City of Omaha and the Greater Omaha Chamber of Commerce recently released
plans for North Downtown, already affectionately known as “NoDo.” This
80-square-block redevelopment zone will hopefully bring needed retail and
entertainment businesses into the downtown area. Plans will soon be announced
for a major retail addition just west of downtown near Mutual of Omaha. Word on
the street is that we will soon hear about new retail development on the former
Ak-Sar-Ben racetrack grounds.

So, we have established the fact that Omaha is experiencing an explosion of
retail construction and that national retailers are invading in droves. Why?
There are a number of reasons for this. Now that Omaha’s metro population has
passed 800,000 and Omaha’s 60-mile population exceeds 1.2 million, we are big
enough to catch retailers’ attention. Over the past five to 10 years, Omaha has
moved from a tertiary retail market up to a secondary one, meaning we show up on
retailers’ “radar screens” much earlier in their expansion processes.

Despite having a large corporate presence, a high average household income and
low cost of living, Omaha was considered “underserved” by national retailers
(especially restaurants) when compared to similar-sized markets. Once the
retailers arrive here, they tend to do well financially. Word spreads and other
retailers follow.

Many national retailers have already saturated the primary markets. In order to
expand, they need to hit the Omaha-sized cities. That said, several national
retailers, such as Sur La Table, Sports Authority, Blue Willi’s, Francesca’s
Collections, Joey’s Only Seafood and Dave & Busters chose Omaha before going to
some much larger cities in the region.

The retail growth does pose some questions. How long will the expansion last?
Can Omaha support all the new stores? Will our world-famous local restaurant
scene suffer? It is hard to answer all these questions, but as long as Omaha
keeps attracting new employers and talented new residents, we should have a
great deal of room for all types of retailers in all parts of our community.

Jeff Beals, vice president of operations for Coldwell Banker Commercial World
Group, hosts a weekly radio talk-show called “Grow Omaha,” which focuses on
economic development in the Omaha area. It airs Saturdays at 8 a.m. on KKAR
(1290 AM). Beals co-hosts the show with Trenton Magid.'..

A very interesting read..Speaking of the Dave & Busters, the new Omaha location is opening on June 29th and is approx 1 mile from my residence :). This is a significant 'get' for Omaha along the lines of a Cheesecake Factory in that there are only 35 D & B locations nationwide and they are mainly found in metro area's much larger than Omaha/OKC/Tulsa..A link to the D & B website:

http://www.daveandbusters.com/locations/locations.asp?f=1

Just thought this might be of interest :)..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

Nuclear_2525
06-04-2005, 09:16 PM
Tulsa has had most of those places for a while. Since Utica has been there for so long, a lot of those places have been there. OKC IMO is beginning an explosion of not only retail, but pretty much everything. I think the most significant explosion for OKC is the new trend of upscale housing for the downtown area.

Thats good for Omaha though, glad you all are getting some nicer stores!

Decious
06-04-2005, 10:07 PM
Sounds good 4 u guys. U've told us about the airport, your DT development, and now your retail expansion. It all sounds great 2 me. U guys should be very proud of your city.

Anyone who wants to read more about everything that's going on in the Omaha area should visit www.eomaha.com

Omaha Cowboy
06-04-2005, 10:17 PM
Sounds good 4 u guys. U've told us about the airport, your DT development, and now your retail expansion. It all sounds great 2 me. U guys should be very proud of your city.

Anyone who wants to read more about everything that's going on in the Omaha area should visit www.eomaha.com

Thank you!..

And I welcome you all in advance to www.eomaha.com

Come on over and visit us anytime!..

I have spread the word of this fine site on our Omaha site as well..

:)..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

Sooner&RiceGrad
06-05-2005, 07:48 PM
Ya, I am the one who recommended this forum to some of the guys on eomaha, though I haven't signed on as Golden Eagle in awhile. :tiphat:

Nuclear_2525
06-06-2005, 05:30 PM
Along West Center Road and West Maple Road, retailers
are commonly paying more than $20 per square foot per year to rent quality space
in new strip centers. A retail plaza recently completed near 72nd and Dodge
streets has demanded rents of $35 per square foot, a very large price tag for a
mid-sized, Midwestern city like Omaha.

I thought this was interesting, just for a little comparison. Omaha Cowboy, you were wondering how Tulsa and OKC compared to Omaha. Here is an article about Tulsa.

Although the retail real estate investment market in Tulsa, Okla., was not as strong last year as it was in 2002...the average price per square foot of retail space doubled between 2001 and 2004, rising from $67 to $137.

Also, (Tulsa's) investment sales volume more than quadrupled in 2004. It jumped to more than $72 million from $17.5 million, according to Real Capital Analytics Inc

Here is the entire story. http://www.cpnonline.com/cpn/regions/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000919866


Also, just announced a few days ago, Tulsa Hills, a new development in West Tulsa, where it is much needed.

"Development is moving fast on the 60-million dollar project. It's hoped the 695-thousand square foot area will be serving customers in a year and a half."

Stonewood Hills, in BA dwarfs Tulsa Hills.
"Phil Roland, of Roland Investments, Ltd., has plans for its new $500 million development, Stone Wood Hills. The anchor of this new development is Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World" This Development covers 450 Acres. Right down the highway, is another development going on, not sure what its called, but it includes over 800 Acres.

Utica Square has talked about expanding to add place for a Nordstrom and a few other stores.

RiverWalk Crossing, over 200,000 sq. ft. of retail space is probably one of the most exciting new developments right now in Tulsa because of its design, and the fact that it faces the Arkansas River. Right now they have concerts every night to entertain the shoppers. I would recommend visiting while the concerts are going on. Its pretty cool.

And sorry to bore all of you OKCers that already know all of this.

If someone could find out the price per square foot for rent for OKC was, I bet it would blow Tulsa away.

HOT ROD
06-06-2005, 07:29 PM
And sorry to bore all of you OKCers that already know all of this.

If someone could find out the price per square foot for rent for OKC was, I bet it would blow Tulsa away.

Oh, I dont think so (Tulsa usually always fetch's higher, maybe with the exception of Bricktown, but that is pretty artificially inflated).

But thanks for the compliment SWAKE.

Hopefully the two cities can join together and lead this state to become number 1 in the union. Together, we CAN do it.

Nuclear_2525
06-06-2005, 08:40 PM
But thanks for the compliment SWAKE.

Swake? I'm not swake! I am the same Nuclear that posts on TulsaNow.

HOT ROD
06-06-2005, 09:31 PM
sorry dude, i got you two mixed up.

Sooner&RiceGrad
06-06-2005, 10:08 PM
He meant it as in an architype. You are like Swake. Swake-alikes are all the same, and Swake is the only one that stands out, so the rest get branded the name Swake.

Get it?

Omaha Cowboy
06-07-2005, 10:03 AM
Nuclear 2525 posted:

'thought this was interesting, just for a little comparison. Omaha Cowboy, you were wondering how Tulsa and OKC compared to Omaha'..

Thank you for the feedback! Very interesting reading :)..

Now understand that $35 sq ft quote was for an eastern midtown area not uniquely hot lately for retail..That it fetched $35 per, is pretty remarkable and the traffic has been tremendous..Down 72nd street 1 mile south at 72nd and Pacific a somewhat higher end retail development is set to open later this month with a Bed Bath & Beyond, Caribou Coffee etc in an area not known for retail..A ripple effect..For Omaha's high end retail/lifestyle centers such as the recently completed 600,000 sq ft Village Pointe with 60 stores in the nw suburbs (168th and Dodge)..The price per sq ft is nearly quadruple that number..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

metro
06-07-2005, 12:16 PM
Sounds good. OKC has had almost all of those restaurants/stores for awhile now although I wouldnt mind seeing a Dave and Busters and a Whole Foods market. Actually despite popular opinion, OKC has been gaining and passing Tulsa in sq. ft prices. especially most recently with the Quail Springs Crossing record setting buyout. Downtown OKC is not the only high price retail anymore, Penn Square and Memorial areas are skyrocketing

BG918
06-07-2005, 10:15 PM
I think the fact that high-point beer/wine can't be sold in grocery stores deters grocery stores like Whole Foods. Do you guys in Omaha have to deal with antiquated liquor law like we do here?

Omaha Cowboy
06-08-2005, 03:17 AM
I think the fact that high-point beer/wine can't be sold in grocery stores deters grocery stores like Whole Foods. Do you guys in Omaha have to deal with antiquated liquor law like we do here?

Fortunately in Omaha we don't..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

Omaha Cowboy
06-08-2005, 03:37 AM
Ya, I am the one who recommended this forum to some of the guys on eomaha, though I haven't signed on as Golden Eagle in awhile. :tiphat:

Thanks for the PM and I'll definitely reguster over at Urban OK as well :)..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

jbrown84
07-08-2005, 10:17 PM
Wow it suprises me that Omaha is just now getting things like Bed Bath and Beyond and Kirklands. I would expect them to be about on par with OKC on getting stores but I guess we're a little ahead. Of course it also can have to do with where the expansion is coming from, but Bed Bath and Beyond is NY/NJ based.

Omaha Cowboy
07-10-2005, 01:41 AM
Wow it suprises me that Omaha is just now getting things like Bed Bath and Beyond and Kirklands. I would expect them to be about on par with OKC on getting stores but I guess we're a little ahead. Of course it also can have to do with where the expansion is coming from, but Bed Bath and Beyond is NY/NJ based.

On the other hand..Omaha has had establishments for several months/years that are just now considering/entering the OKC market like Red Robin/Chipolte/White House-Black Market/Caribou Coffee/The Melting Pot etc..

Dave & Buster's has recently opened in Omaha and is in some pretty exclusive company as there are only 35 locations nationwide..D & B's ownership considers Omaha a 'test-market' of sorts to see how their establishment will fly in a secondary mid-sized market..So far, it's been a big hit..Which bodes well for both OKC and Tulsa..

And as a point of reference, Bed Bath and Beyond has been in Omaha for awhile now..The development I mentioned in an earlier post is their third location planned for metro Omaha (and it just opened last month)..

Easily, Omaha is on par with OKC and Tulsa as it relates to retail offerings..

And I see things getting even better for all 3 cities in the near future..

Cheesecake Factory anyone? ;)..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

jbrown84
07-10-2005, 01:33 PM
We've actually had a White House Black Market in Edmond for almost two years.

HOT ROD
07-10-2005, 01:40 PM
On the other hand..Omaha has had establishments for several months/years that are just now considering/entering the OKC market like Red Robin/Chipolte/White House-Black Market/Caribou Coffee/The Melting Pot etc..

Dave & Buster's has recently opened in Omaha and is in some pretty exclusive company as there are only 35 locations nationwide..D & B's ownership considers Omaha a 'test-market' of sorts to see how their establishment will fly in a secondary mid-sized market..So far, it's been a big hit..Which bodes well for both OKC and Tulsa..

And as a point of reference, Bed Bath and Beyond has been in Omaha for awhile now..The development I mentioned in an earlier post is their third location planned for metro Omaha (and it just opened last month)..

Easily, Omaha is on par with OKC and Tulsa as it relates to retail offerings..

And I see things getting even better for all 3 cities in the near future..

Cheesecake Factory anyone? ;)..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace


Honestly, those are all chains!

Here in Seattle, we dont really have much of them. Yes, we do have some Red Robins (as they started here) and we have ONE Cheesecake Factory in the whole Seattle Metro Area (3.7 million people, by the way). But here, we have WAY MORE local restaurants!!!

that is really what makes a big city interesting and prosperous that people remember, lots of local only venues. OKC has way more local than Omaha, it doesnt really mean much because a city is a test market.

Good luck to you and hope you feel better that you get national chain restaurants sooner than OKC. That is usually the case for smaller markets, by the way!!!

Omaha Cowboy
07-10-2005, 06:05 PM
Hot Rod posted:

'OKC has way more local than Omaha, it doesnt really mean much because a city is a test market.'..

Uh..Are you sure about that one? All large and secondary makets have 'chains'..But what has made Omaha strong over the years is it's wide variety of high quality LOCAL establishments..Which made many of the major chains shy away..Until the past 3 years as Omaha has grown into a secondary market from a tertiary one..And now boasts a metro poulation of 850,000..

My test market reference was attached to Dave & Buster's only NOT the entire Omaha market as a whole..But I guess people read what they want to read and filter out other important stuff in order to make their overall point sometimes..

And you're going to need to show me your quantitative 'study' that backs your above quoted statement because I'm here to tell you..It's NOT accurate by a LONG shot..

Hot Rod also posted:

'Good luck to you and hope you feel better that you get national chain restaurants sooner than OKC. That is usually the case for smaller markets, by the way!!!'..

Now lets not get offended buddy..And as it relates to markets, OKC and Omaha and Tulsa are ALL considered secondary ones..Study up on that one if you would..You may also learn that Omaha/OKC/Tulsa are very simliar markets pretty much in the same boat..Another thing you might learn is that minus perhaps the top 20 US metro markets, national chains have pretty much invaded markets 21 through 100 Of which OKC #48, Tulsa #58, and Omaha #60 are ALL included..Now THAT you can feel good about I'm sure ;)..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

HOT ROD
07-10-2005, 11:22 PM
Actually, I live in Seattle, a top 15 US Market for sure. So back off there, cowboy.

I just found you were very patriotic toward your town at the expense of OKC. There's nothing wrong with that. But you come over to the OKC site and your tone seems to put Omaha in a higher light at the expense of OKC (like, oh yeah - we had that for a year now, you're just now getting it).

Most people from smaller towns do what you did, in cheerleading for their town at the expense of another. Most of the time, the cheers are unfounded and nobody really cares.

And no, you need to get your facts straight. Most Major Cities have way more Local than Chains!! You stated that Omaha was the mecca for chain test market and I said that it could be that your market is smaller than OKC since test markets are set up in smaller markets (so as to avoid setup costs that would be higher in large markets).

"shoot yourself in the foot? eh."

Omaha Cowboy
07-11-2005, 12:05 AM
Hot Rod posted:

'And no, you need to get your facts straight. Most Major Cities have way more Local than Chains!! You stated that Omaha was the mecca for chain test market and I said that it could be that your market is smaller than OKC since test markets are set up in smaller markets (so as to avoid setup costs that would be higher in large markets).'..

NEVER did I say this (show me though..I'd like to see)..And NO..This was not the purpose of this thread..One I started here over a month ago..The PURPOSE was to inform..And you seem to be takng offense! But your also seem to be very good at selective reading and making sweeping generalizations..

You also post:

'Most people from smaller towns do what you did, in cheerleading for their town at the expense of another. Most of the time, the cheers are unfounded and nobody really cares.'..

I have never 'cheerleaded' Omaha on this forum. Just informed. Even though you say you live in Seattle..You obviously have a vested interest in OKC and for some reason, are getting your panties in a bunch over what is ment was to be an INFORMTION thread about a market similar to both OKC and Tulsa (and it is..regardless of how you want to spin or rationalize it)..Interpret my postings howver you want..But your offensive posture is typical of a citizen of a city that has an inferiority complex..

Thankfully it is my belief this is not reflective of most Oklahoma Citians..

But keep digging yourself a hole if you want..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

Omaha Cowboy
05-24-2006, 11:31 AM
Only an informational follow-up to this thread I started here nearly 1 year ago..

The Cheesecake Factory will now come to Omaha (Westroads Mall in Omaha)..

From the May 24th Omaha World-Herald:

'Attention, Cheesecake Factory fans: You should be able to enjoy a meal and a slice of the restaurant's rich, indulgent dessert later this year when the chain opens its first location in Nebraska at Westroads Mall.

The 10,209-square-foot restaurant is scheduled to open by late fall, said Alie Hrabe, marketing manager for Westroads at 102nd Street and West Dodge Road. Construction is expected to begin in the next few weeks in the southwest section of the mall parking lot.

Westroads is thrilled to add the upscale casual-dining eatery to its already great list of restaurants, Hrabe said. "The Cheesecake Factory offers a high-energy atmosphere and truly unique dining experience."'..

The complete story link:

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=46&u_sid=2176390&u_rnd=7956700

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

Spartan
10-17-2006, 11:03 PM
Yo Cowboy. Aint so special now with yer Cheeseycake are ya?

Oh and at least we have a discussion forum. Actually, technically, we have like..... 6 discussion forums. All of which work.

And what's with you all jumping ship on the CDN?

Omaha Cowboy
10-18-2006, 09:42 AM
Yo Cowboy.

And what's with you all jumping ship on the CDN?

The individual who hosted the site (jhuston) decided he wanted out. eomaha is in transition right now as a new host is trying to transfer the forum data/content without losing any of it. I'm not a part of the administration of the new site, but will most likely be a contributor to the forum once it gets up and running. The site should be up in a week or so..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

Spartan
10-18-2006, 10:41 AM
What were your thoughts on Jeff Huston?

Me and Ingersoll over at DSM were having an interesting conversation on him...

Omaha Cowboy
10-19-2006, 12:50 AM
What were your thoughts on Jeff Huston?

Me and Ingersoll over at DSM were having an interesting conversation on him...

This makes me wonder about the conversations you have about me over there ;)..

Jeff's a friend of mine..And I've always appreciated his enthusiasm and love for Omaha and the entire midwest. He represents our city very well..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

Spartan
10-19-2006, 01:12 AM
If you say so. As for you, yeah you can only imagine the conversations.....

Just kidding, of course. I think you're pretty cool cat...

HOT ROD
10-20-2006, 01:04 PM
Hot Rod posted:

'And no, you need to get your facts straight. Most Major Cities have way more Local than Chains!! You stated that Omaha was the mecca for chain test market and I said that it could be that your market is smaller than OKC since test markets are set up in smaller markets (so as to avoid setup costs that would be higher in large markets).'..

NEVER did I say this (show me though..I'd like to see)..And NO..This was not the purpose of this thread..One I started here over a month ago..The PURPOSE was to inform..And you seem to be takng offense! But your also seem to be very good at selective reading and making sweeping generalizations..

You also post:

'Most people from smaller towns do what you did, in cheerleading for their town at the expense of another. Most of the time, the cheers are unfounded and nobody really cares.'..

I have never 'cheerleaded' Omaha on this forum. Just informed. Even though you say you live in Seattle..You obviously have a vested interest in OKC and for some reason, are getting your panties in a bunch over what is ment was to be an INFORMTION thread about a market similar to both OKC and Tulsa (and it is..regardless of how you want to spin or rationalize it)..Interpret my postings howver you want..But your offensive posture is typical of a citizen of a city that has an inferiority complex..

Thankfully it is my belief this is not reflective of most Oklahoma Citians..

But keep digging yourself a hole if you want..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace

nope, I dont have any inferiority complex. And yes, I am originally from OKC residing in Seattle for 15 years (soon to move to downtown Chicago for obvious reasons).

I do have a "vested" interest in OKC and if I came across as offensive - please accept my apologies. But it also appears that your posts were cheerleading Omaha's efforts to attract national chains, ahead of both OKC and Tulsa.

And the statements I made about major cities having way more local restaurants and venues than national chains is true. If you travel to any city larger than Omaha, you will discover that most if not all "chain" restaurants locate in the suburbs surrounding a large city - but in fact, in the major city its all local.

Chicago, Seattle, San Fran, New York, OKC, on and on. And the ONLY reason why OKC even has ANY chains in its 'city limits' is because OKC's limits include many suburban areas. All of the chains are in the suburbs nonetheless, while local restaurants are in the inner city.

That was my statement and I was wondering if you were truly interested in "Informing" us for the benefit of a more urban OKC or were you trying to boost Omaha "by saying, Oh you guys finally getting that - Omaha had it for X years, you'll like it.. stuff"

I mean, its not like people from OKC are so behind the times that they dont go to other areas that have these places - that they'd require such a critique and plug for Omaha. While you might think that is information, suburban Seattle/Tacoma has chains but I never come on here with that type of boosterism - its not very helpful to OKC.

On the contrary, if you were to say something more like "Y restaurant, oh yes we have one here in Omaha and the food is X, the service is Z, and I think it has made a pos impact on our city because of 'this' or 'that', I think it could/could not work in OKC because of 'what'". That would be a very constructive approach and would offer an opinion that OKC could build on - and doesn't booster Omaha (although obviously you all have the place already). It also would encourage dialog through questions to you about the venue or a request for suggestions on how OKC could make it work.

Nope, you dug the hole not me - now, Im helping you out of it. Like I said, most people in OKC are from elsewhere or "at least" get around, so they are well aware about restaurants that OKC doesn't yet have. Let's be more constructive as you will probably see that OKC has a lot to offer Omaha as well - with takeaways that you can give to your fellow posters over there.

I hope that helps clarify.

Spartan
10-20-2006, 01:06 PM
Fix your signature.

HOT ROD
10-20-2006, 01:21 PM
thanks Hokie, for some reason - the smiley stopped working. Weird.

Spartan
10-20-2006, 01:39 PM
Beats me. Looks like we still have the same smileys...

Omaha Cowboy
10-21-2006, 12:29 AM
Nope, you dug the hole not me - now, Im helping you out of it. Like I said, most people in OKC are from elsewhere or "at least" get around, so they are well aware about restaurants that OKC doesn't yet have. Let's be more constructive as you will probably see that OKC has a lot to offer Omaha as well - with takeaways that you can give to your fellow posters over there.

I hope that helps clarify.

The post I submitted, and you are now 'clarifying', was written by yours truly over 15 MONTHS ago (07/11/2005)..You're kidding..Right??

Hello? McFly??..Been there..Done with..I thought we already talked about this via PM exchange WAAAY back then..

But thanks for the belated 'clarification' I guess..

Don't tell me it's 15 months later and you still misinterpret the spirit and intent of my initial posting?..

C'mon..

:beaten_fi

Lets move on to revelant discussion..

..Ciao..LiO....Peace