Does anybody know if Crest plans on opening any more of these Crest Markets? I just moved here from Charlotte and live on the north side. While I have been very impressed with OKC and think it even edges out Charlotte in some areas, nice grocery stores are hard to come by here compared to what I was used to back in Charlotte. Some regular Crests are nice, a few Homelands are nice but most Homelands are run down and dirty. Of course there is Wal-Mart that I avoid like the plague. Whole Foods is nice but its a niche market. So I happened to be on the south side tonight and stopped into Crest Market at 104th and May and it felt like I was walking into a Harris Teeter back home or an H-E-B. I think the metro area could use a few more of these, especially on the north side. Does anybody know if Crest plans on expanding that concept?

Welcome to OKC! Try Sprouts Market at 63rd and May or 2nd and Broadway in Edmond. The Uptown Grocery Co. In Edmond at Danforth and Kelly is real nice too. The Buy For Less at NW Expressway and Hefner Parkway is decent too. These are all on the north side. OKCs grocery store scene is just now being discovered on a national scale and is turning around quickly, be patient.

I second a welcome. Glad to hear you are enjoying OKC. Can't say I've seen too many east-coasters here.

I agree the grocery scene in OKC is only now starting to improve and Crest is the local chain leading the way. Unfortunately the only store they are planning to build is going to be in Norman.

If you are in North OKC, have you tried the Crest off of Rockwell and Hefner? That was the store I went to when I lived on the north side of town. Not as nice as the one off 104th and May but its nice, clean, and carries about 95% of what the Fresh Market store carries.

adaniel, why is Crest leading the way? They aren't anymore than BFL with their new Uptown Market concept.

There's a Crest in Edmond, at 164th & Santa Fe. I don't get why anyone goes to Walmart for groceries if there's a Crest nearby. In my opinion, Crest is the Best!

adaniel, why is Crest leading the way? They aren't anymore than BFL with their new Uptown Market concept.

I'm only saying that because Crest is already planning on Fresh Market store # 2. Plus, outside of Uptown Grocery and their flagship store on NWX, most BFL's are lacking. Whereas, I would have no problem going into a normal Crest.

Uptown Grocery is very nice, so I will give BFL credit for trying to right the ship.

brchris:


You're actually talking about a "Crest Fresh Market."
Crest stores are owned by the same company, but they are the crappy 80s version of the chain and while people are going to yell at me I'm sure they're nothing like what you are looking for. You want their Crest Fresh Market concept, nothing else.
Right now the one on the SW side is the only one in existence. Crest has also announced plans for a Fresh Market in Norman, but I am unsure of when it will be built. I have heard of no plans for any more stores after that one.
People are going to tell you about how nice Store X or Store Y are... don't believe them, they are "Oklahoma quality" 90s style stores. The only real options for the type of store you are looking for in your area are Whole Foods and Uptown Grocery. Thought it was getting better but new development seems to have stalled out. (Slapping new paint and fake wood floors on a dingy 30 year old store but keeping the same wilted veggies doesn't impress me Homeland).


As you can tell, I am fed up with many quality of life issues in OKC, this being one of them. OKC is a nice place to live, but it is behind the times in a lot of things and every day is a struggle against the hordes to keep it that way. I hope the quality of grocery stores will improve, but if past is any indication it is going to happen at a snails pace compared to everywhere else.

What about sunflower market? They are very nice too

What about sunflower market? They are very nice too

Sunflower is now Sprouts which was mentioned earlier.

Homeland at May and Britton is the nicest regular grocery store on the northwest side. Unfortunately it's about their only really nice store.

Homeland is terrible, although they've improved their store on May and Britton, and it's decent.

Homeland is hardly terrible.

brchris:


You're actually talking about a "Crest Fresh Market."
Crest stores are owned by the same company, but they are the crappy 80s version of the chain and while people are going to yell at me I'm sure they're nothing like what you are looking for. You want their Crest Fresh Market concept, nothing else.
Right now the one on the SW side is the only one in existence. Crest has also announced plans for a Fresh Market in Norman, but I am unsure of when it will be built. I have heard of no plans for any more stores after that one.
People are going to tell you about how nice Store X or Store Y are... don't believe them, they are "Oklahoma quality" 90s style stores. The only real options for the type of store you are looking for in your area are Whole Foods and Uptown Grocery. Thought it was getting better but new development seems to have stalled out. (Slapping new paint and fake wood floors on a dingy 30 year old store but keeping the same wilted veggies doesn't impress me Homeland).


As you can tell, I am fed up with many quality of life issues in OKC, this being one of them. OKC is a nice place to live, but it is behind the times in a lot of things and every day is a struggle against the hordes to keep it that way. I hope the quality of grocery stores will improve, but if past is any indication it is going to happen at a snails pace compared to everywhere else.

Thanks for the replies everybody. I actually do most of my shopping at the Crest at Rockwell and Hefner because its close to where I live. It's pretty nice, though not near as nice as the Crest Fresh Market. It's nice enough though and its clean and well stocked. Still wish there were a few more Crest Fresh Markets or a concept similar on the northwest side. I'll have to check out the Buy For Less on NW Expressway. I have been in a few nice Homelands, most notably the one on N May and Britton, but I have two other Homelands within a mile of where I live and they are both nasty.

Having lived in OKC as a child, I have to say the lack of quality grocery stores here is not completely the fault of OKC. The first reason is Wal-Mart deployed their saturation strategy in this market in the early 2000s and were much more aggressive than they were in most other markets. This resulted in many local grocers going out of business and some national chains like Albertson's leaving the market. This was able to happen because unlike most cities across the US, OKC never had a dominant grocery retailer prior to Wal-Mart's deluge on the market like Houston (H-E-B), Charlotte (Harris Teeter), Little Rock (Kroger), Tulsa (Reasor's), etc all had. The closest thing OKC ever had was Homeland which in Charlotte would be about on the level of a Compare Foods; definitely bottom tier. This allowed Wal-Mart to very easily come in and become that dominant grocery retailer because for the most part it was an improvement upon what was here before as sad as that is.

Fortunately, there are companies now like Crest that are stepping up to the plate and improving things, if ever so slowly. I was also reading that Reasor's may open a store in Edmond making it the first OKC metro store for them. If it does well, its not too far fetched to think the chain will expand their presence in Central Oklahoma. Personally, I would rather see an Oklahoma company like Crest or Reasor's expand and become a greater force in the OKC market than a national chain like H-E-B come in. Supporting local retailers benefits everybody.

Homeland is hardly terrible.

You need to stop into their "store" at 18th and Classen. Unbelievably bad.

brchris:


You're actually talking about a "Crest Fresh Market."
Crest stores are owned by the same company, but they are the crappy 80s version of the chain and while people are going to yell at me I'm sure they're nothing like what you are looking for. You want their Crest Fresh Market concept, nothing else.
Right now the one on the SW side is the only one in existence. Crest has also announced plans for a Fresh Market in Norman, but I am unsure of when it will be built. I have heard of no plans for any more stores after that one.
People are going to tell you about how nice Store X or Store Y are... don't believe them, they are "Oklahoma quality" 90s style stores. The only real options for the type of store you are looking for in your area are Whole Foods and Uptown Grocery. Thought it was getting better but new development seems to have stalled out. (Slapping new paint and fake wood floors on a dingy 30 year old store but keeping the same wilted veggies doesn't impress me Homeland).


As you can tell, I am fed up with many quality of life issues in OKC, this being one of them. OKC is a nice place to live, but it is behind the times in a lot of things and every day is a struggle against the hordes to keep it that way. I hope the quality of grocery stores will improve, but if past is any indication it is going to happen at a snails pace compared to everywhere else.

+1

The Oklahoma City grocery market, save for a few niche stores, sucks big time.

You need to stop into their "store" at 18th and Classen. Unbelievably bad.

+1

You need to stop into their "store" at 18th and Classen. Unbelievably bad.

I agree that it's bad by suburban standards. But, it's really not bad compared to a lot of urban grocery stores. They'll fix it up once they get some competition downtown. Right now, it's our only option. I buy all my staples there, for which it's just fine. But, I'm waiting for Urban Roots to be my best option for meat and vegetables.

We live right down the street from a Walmart Neighborhood Market, and its not that bad, which we go there to pick up light things, but if we really want to do some serious grocery shopping we go to Sam's....But for the record Crest's Fresh Markets are the best everyday grocery shopping in the city. Moreover, Norman's Crest Fresh Market plat was approved a couple weeks ago, so they should be breaking ground anytime now.

duplicate!

This was able to happen because unlike most cities across the US, OKC never had a dominant grocery retailer prior to Wal-Mart's deluge on the market like Houston (H-E-B), Charlotte (Harris Teeter), Little Rock (Kroger), Tulsa (Reasor's), etc all had.I think "never" is a bit of an over-statement. Back in the 40s and 50s, and even later, Humpto-Dumpty was a pretty dominant figure in OKC grocery retailing. Its founder, Sylvan Goldman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvan_Goldman), invented the shopping cart back in 1937 and that led to the supermarket concept.

Unfortunately, his sons (Al and Monte) weren't all that interested in the grocery business; they preferred real estate. After his retirement, the Humpty chain just sort of evaporated. Many of its locations later became Albertson stores.

The original Safeway chain, which morphed into Homeland through a rather extended series of bankruptcies and buy-outs, was the other dominant player in those days.

However, the Walmart saturation is, as you said, what really marked the end of top-level grocery outlets here.

I agree that it's bad by suburban standards. But, it's really not bad compared to a lot of urban grocery stores. They'll fix it up once they get some competition downtown. Right now, it's our only option. I buy all my staples there, for which it's just fine. But, I'm waiting for Urban Roots to be my best option for meat and vegetables.

It's horrible by any standard urban, suburban, or otherwise. Flaccid rejected vegetables from their other stores, employees hanging out front smoking girts and discarding them in the parking lot, no lighting. Shameful. It needs to be dozed. I only go there as a last resort. Super Cao has great produce, seafood and pork. Braums has dairy staples. This place is godawful.

My idea of an urban grocery store is the King Soopers at 14th and Speer in Denver. Not great to look at, but functional. It's been there maybe 20 years.

I think "never" is a bit of an over-statement. Back in the 40s and 50s, and even later, Humpto-Dumpty was a pretty dominant figure in OKC grocery retailing. Its founder, Sylvan Goldman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvan_Goldman), invented the shopping cart back in 1937 and that led to the supermarket concept.

Unfortunately, his sons (Al and Monte) weren't all that interested in the grocery business; they preferred real estate. After his retirement, the Humpty chain just sort of evaporated. Many of its locations later became Albertson stores.

The original Safeway chain, which morphed into Homeland through a rather extended series of bankruptcies and buy-outs, was the other dominant player in those days.

However, the Walmart saturation is, as you said, what really marked the end of top-level grocery outlets here.

In other markets though, some smaller than OKC, other chains can compete against Wal-Mart. Think back to the late '90s when Wal-Mart started building Supercenters everywhere in OKC. I was living here as a child then and I don't remember very many top-tier grocers at that time. There were a few nice Albertson's which today are the nice Homelands, but not much else. Crest at that time had a sole location on Reno in Midwest City and it was dirty and had molded meat for sale. It's great to see that place has turned itself around and become a reputable chain in this area. I do remember a lot of independents and IGAs. The problem started before Wal-Mart, but the Wal-Mart saturation just prevented any other big player from coming in and turning things around. Today's OKC grocery market is better than its been in decades despite still needing quite a bit of improvement.

McCartney's had at least a couple of grocery stores in OKC which were very nice for the time. I believe it's been about 30 years ago, though.

Homeland is hardly terrible.

You're right, it's beyond terrible, minus the flagship store.

Also, SuperTargets are not bad, have higher quality, clean and don't have the Walmart crowd.

You're right, it's beyond terrible, minus the flagship store.

To each his own. I shop at a Homeland regularly and am quite satisfied.

This has been one of my biggest complainst about living here the past year. I got spoiled by living down the street from the best grocery stores I have ever seen: http://www.dorothylane.com I still order thier homemade tomato sauce, olive oils, and awesome bakery treats whenever I get too fed up with Homeland.

As far as Reasor's coming to Edmond, I'll believe it when I see it. When I read in the paper that they were wanting to put a store at Bryant and 15th, I figured they would be in for a fight, and it sounds as though they are. Goodness knows all the powers that be in Edmond will do all they can to prevent any business from coming in to town!

As far as Reasor's coming to Edmond, I'll believe it when I see it. When I read in the paper that they were wanting to put a store at Bryant and 15th, I figured they would be in for a fight, and it sounds as though they are. Goodness knows all the powers that be in Edmond will do all they can to prevent any business from coming in to town!

I believe there was a fight but it has been approved, according to the most recent article I read. NIMBY's in the neighborhood behind the development were worried about noise.

I believe there was a fight but it has been approved, according to the most recent article I read. NIMBY's in the neighborhood behind the development were worried about noise.
Thanks for the info. I've been watching the paper for an article about what happened at the last meeting about it, but never saw one. Must have just missed it.

This has been one of my biggest complainst about living here the past year. I got spoiled by living down the street from the best grocery stores I have ever seen: http://www.dorothylane.com I still order thier homemade tomato sauce, olive oils, and awesome bakery treats whenever I get too fed up with Homeland.

Those look awesome

Another good grocery store that my family would welcome to the OKC area is United Supermarkets. Not the Oklahoma type United that has a few locations across the state, but the Texas type United.

Buy for less minus the expressway location are disgusting that homeland on classen is more filthy than any cstore I've been to. There is only one other establishment I have been to in Oklahoma that was more disgusting (outside of bars) is a motel 9 in Lawton.

If you can speak Spanish try the buyforless on 36th and macaurther you might find you a gardner and handyman while your shopping

Buy for less minus the expressway location are disgusting that homeland on classen is more filthy than any cstore I've been to. There is only one other establishment I have been to in Oklahoma that was more disgusting (outside of bars) is a motel 9 in Lawton.

If you can speak Spanish try the buyforless on 36th and macaurther you might find you a gardner and handyman while your shopping

Hopefully you realize that your opinion becomes lost on many when you combine it with veiled racism.

Also, it's funny how you incredulous you were about having your car searched when you were carting around a bunch of drunk people, when you make a disgusting assumption about the patrons of a certain supermarket.

Buy for less minus the expressway location are disgusting that homeland on classen is more filthy than any cstore I've been to. There is only one other establishment I have been to in Oklahoma that was more disgusting (outside of bars) is a motel 9 in Lawton.

If you can speak Spanish try the buyforless on 36th and macaurther you might find you a gardner and handyman while your shopping

WTF? Pretty ugly commentary here. Maybe this isn't the right forum community for you.

Having been in the retail grocery industry going on 40 years, this thread is most interesting. It is great that you returned to OKC to live. Welcome home.
There is one thing on all these threads I cannot understand. The presumption that okc is negligent and backwards offends my Okieness to no end. You have supposedly moved back from Charlotte and know exactly how a real grocer should look. You say you support local chains, but only mention one. Homeland is employee owned and operated, BFL is locally owned and operated but you fail to mention either in your comments. I know the locations in your area intimately and take umbrage with your comment re: " two nasty Homelands." All those locations are operated quite well by industry standards and I have no qualms with shopping any.
I challenge you and all the community here to offer the definitive model of the perfect grocer for our needs. I don't see the be all/end all around, and if there were, it would be different tomorrow. In the meantime, my industry will continue to respond quickly to the wants and needs of the community.
While I think the mantra of supporting local business is great, is there any curiosity with the employee conditions the various companies require?
Once again, welcome home and look forward to your response.

Having been in the retail grocery industry going on 40 years, this thread is most interesting. It is great that you returned to OKC to live. Welcome home.
There is one thing on all these threads I cannot understand. The presumption that okc is negligent and backwards offends my Okieness to no end. You have supposedly moved back from Charlotte and know exactly how a real grocer should look. You say you support local chains, but only mention one. Homeland is employee owned and operated, BFL is locally owned and operated but you fail to mention either in your comments. I know the locations in your area intimately and take umbrage with your comment re: " two nasty Homelands." All those locations are operated quite well by industry standards and I have no qualms with shopping any.
I challenge you and all the community here to offer the definitive model of the perfect grocer for our needs. I don't see the be all/end all around, and if there were, it would be different tomorrow. In the meantime, my industry will continue to respond quickly to the wants and needs of the community.
While I think the mantra of supporting local business is great, is there any curiosity with the employee conditions the various companies require?
Once again, welcome home and look forward to your response.

I think you are missing the point. No one is saying that OKC is negligent and backwards, but for those of us who have lived in other parts of the country (e.g., Washington, DC/VA, South Carolina) it is shocking to see what the grocery stores are like in Oklahoma versus other places. Homeland has definitely improved one of its stores in Norman, but the quality of the other stores is highly variable from what I've seen. The quality of the deli, produce, fresh foods, and bakeries here is just generally inferior to what you see from stores like Harris Teeter, Giant Food, and even some Kroger stores. And the stores themselves are not as nice. Also, our one Whole Foods store is the closest thing we have to something like Wegmans or Central Market. I have been to Uptown Grocery and Crest Fresh Market, and they are both very nice stores. But in other parts of the country, these would be closer to what the typical grocery stores look like. They are the rule, whereas here they are the exception. I moved to Oklahoma eight years ago, and I love it here. I think it's great that we're finally getting some decent options, and I hope concepts like Whole Foods, Uptown Grocery, and Crest Fresh Market will spread around the metro. I also hope we will get something like Central Market (and Trader Joe's).

I also don't think anyone was saying OKC is backwards. I just don't like the grocery situation. Also, locally owned is nice, but I'd much rather shop at a great national/regional retailer than an average local market. The market I referenced above took full advantage of being the local choice, and used that to their full advantage: locally sourced produce, meat, retail items from the best local restaurants, and a great selection of local beer. They didn't compete on price: they won business by being the best, and charged what they needed to in order to make that happen.

I also don't think anyone was saying OKC is backwards. I just don't like the grocery situation. Also, locally owned is nice, but I'd much rather shop at a great national/regional retailer than an average local market. The market I referenced above took full advantage of being the local choice, and used that to their full advantage: locally sourced produce, meat, retail items from the best local restaurants, and a great selection of local beer. They didn't compete on price: they won business by being the best, and charged what they needed to in order to make that happen.

To bring Crest back into the conversation: they are struggling with their business model right now. For years, they have tried to compete with Wal-Mart for the downscale customer, and they did a very good job of that. Now, they seem to have recognized that they need to compete for the more upscale shopper as well to remain viable, but they just don't seem to know how to do it.

The Crest closest to me, on 23rd and Meridian, has added the bulk bins with nuts, grains, legumes, etc. and has even added (a fairly paltry) selection of fresh flowers. But they still offer no real organic produce and dispensed with the excellent local meat option they once used, Premium Beef, which is a Southwestern Oklahoma producer of all-natural beef. This company now supplies Whole Foods.

I spoke to the manager about it and he seems to be in denial. He was saying they couldn't get all-natural, no hormone chicken raised in relatively cruelty-free environs, and that when they tried Smart Chicken it didn't sell. Well, for one thing they did nothing to market it when they carried it and had an extremely limited selection. Their "We don't advertise to save you money" ethos fails in this case. When you introduce new products -- and are going after a new customer niche -- you simply have to advertise it. They didn't even seem to advertise in their own store.

I would love to support a local grocer, but I've moved on to organic meat and produce, and it has improved my health (I've dropped 20 pounds in weight without radically changing my diet) since Whole Foods opened.

Although I've been primarily a lurker on this thread, I do think there's one point here that bears illustration - and that's how the OKC grocery market has endured a bit of upheaval over the last, oh, say, decade or so. When I was growing up in SW Oklahoma City, we had Wehba's (which became McCartney's), Jim's IGA, Buchanan's, Skaggs Alpha-Beta (nee Albertsons) and Safeway (nee Homeland) all within a fairly reasonable distance of each other. None of them exist anymore, at least not the locations I'm remembering.

Part, but not all, of their disappearance can be tied to the emergence of the Wal-Mart Neighborhood Markets, which I generally loathe. Part can be attributed to pricing - I, personally, don't see how the Homeland (for example) at SW 104th and Penn survives with its pricing. Same thing with Albertsons, although they've announced their exiting the OK market. The CrestMarket is not "low price" like its other-store brethren, as we've learned, so once in a while we do end up back at WalMart.

I guess my point here is that places like Whole Foods et al with a higher concept carry with them a higher pricetag, and I think most Oklahoma shoppers are still very, very price sensitive. The higher concept is nice, but when it comes down to the real, boring, day-to-day purchases of things like bread, milk, and cereal, the high concepts often lose out to practical economic reality. Crest, IMHO, is coming darned close to finding the "sweet spot" between the two extremes, combined with a great location. The question is whether other such concepts will take the financial risk to see if their own models will enjoy the same success.

Observations as a "Hobby Cook" . . .

"#1 Go To" Store: Homeland on N. May. (Good Meat Counter, Good Produce Section, "Artisan Bread" WAY overpriced.)

"Everyday" Store: Buy For Less at Hefner and Penn (A little shabby and rough around the edges, but one of the friendliest and "culturally diverse" stores I've been in. Biggest area for improvement is the produce department. They need to lose more money on stocking fresh herbs so this one customer--me--can be more totally satisfied.)

"Nice If In The Vicinity" Store: Sunflower Market (is it still "Sunflower"? or did the "newness" wear off already?) at 63rd and May. (a whole lot of good stuff and some of the bread is the best and most fairly priced around).

"Nice, But Not Worth The Drive" Store: Whole Foods. (One bag of groceries=$75 I think that was a personal record. And no meat. But some $13 maple syrup.)

"Rotiserre Chicken and Ciabatta Rolls Only" Store: Walmart Neighborhood Market, Britton and Penn. I violate my own personal stance against Walmart every time I yield to the urge for the chicken, but it's extra good.

"Notably Absent From the List" Store: Crest. Was a big fan of Crest years ago. Not anymore.

To bring Crest back into the conversation: they are struggling with their business model right now.

Could you advise your source on "struggling?" Are you saying their business is in trouble? Would really like to read up on sources for that information, because its entirely contrary to what I've understood - and that's to suggest they have been even more successful than they anticipated.


Their "We don't advertise to save you money" ethos fails in this case. When you introduce new products -- and are going after a new customer niche -- you simply have to advertise it. They didn't even seem to advertise in their own store.

Again, could you explain how their concept is failing? That failure is coming along what seems to be long daily lines at the CrestMarket I frequent, and I've seen little to no advertising for them. Not saying you're wrong, just don't understand the source of the information or the criteria for failure.


I would love to support a local grocer, but I've moved on to organic meat and produce, ....

If you're looking for places like Crest et al to "advertise" this concept, think you may be disappointed. As consumers are getting more educated about the fact that the word "organic" means absolutely nothing except for the fact that someone paid for a sticker or label that says it, and even recent research says "organic" doesn't really translate to anything tangible in terms of real health issues, it is sounding more and more like an advertising gimmick that carries nothing more than a higher pricetag, one to which most have already caught on, and are passing by.

Could you advise your source on "struggling?" Are you saying their business is in trouble? Would really like to read up on sources for that information, because its entirely contrary to what I've understood - and that's to suggest they have been even more successful than they anticipated.



Again, could you explain how their concept is failing? That failure is coming along what seems to be long daily lines at the CrestMarket I frequent, and I've seen little to no advertising for them. Not saying you're wrong, just don't understand the source of the information or the criteria for failure.



If you're looking for places like Crest et al to "advertise" this concept, think you may be disappointed. As consumers are getting more educated about the fact that the word "organic" means absolutely nothing except for the fact that someone paid for a sticker or label that says it, and even recent research says "organic" doesn't really translate to anything tangible in terms of real health issues, it is sounding more and more like an advertising gimmick that carries nothing more than a higher pricetag, one to which most have already caught on, and are passing by.

Wow. Overreact much? It sounds as if you and I are actually on the same page about Crest. They are not "struggling," as in "going out of business" struggling, but they've made changes to the 23rd and Meridian store to try to capture more middle-class and upscale customers, but after talking to the manager, they've already abandoned some of these plans.

By "advertising," I realize they won't buy a TV spot or newspaper ad (and that wouldn't be effective anyway), but when they introduced new product lines in the store they didn't even have in-store marketing. That is merchandising 101. I think they've probably lost a lot of customers like myself and are trying to get them back. So when I say "struggling," I'm saying they're "struggling to adapt their business model" to the changes in the local market.

The grocery market in OKC is changing. Crest has to stay abreast of the changes. The days of simply going head to head with Wal-Mart for downscale shoppers and offering a few odds and ends to more upscale buyers are over. They need to do some marketing research and shake things up with their suppliers.

As for the store on the South side, it is very nice and you'll notice I didn't reference it in my post.

I have always said Wall Mart has taken all the fun from the grocery business. The biggest difference they brought ( besides volume buying and deleting middle management larceny ) was crushing the margins. Not that long ago, smaller independents could make good coin, treat and pay their good employees well, and serve their communities well. Now, their is no such thing as a small independent ( ex Whitakers, doing quite well, thank you ) because of the volume it takes to make money with the margins allowed. A story I know of recently, the owner of Whitakers ( son of founder ) spends virtually 24/7 on the 1,5 and 10th. He makes good money and rewards his KEY people well. The rest, they come and they go. Crest and BFL have similar business models. They earn their stroke through sheer volume as all in an industry with laughable margins. Your Targets and Wall Marts don't need to worry so much as they have the insanely more profitable hba sides to make up for the grocery sides.
Long and short, okc was one of the first to feel the wrath of wall mart, who went from zero market share to double digits within a few years of entering this market. Not all bad as they did actually lower everyone's food bill. As a result though, less competition, more standardized offerings, and a lot of good folks getting out of the business for greener pastures.
Sorry for being so long and pointless. It irks me to no end to hear of the general dissatisfaction amongst the general public.
Here's to finding the right mix of quality, variety and value in every area of OKC!

I have always said Wall Mart has taken all the fun from the grocery business. The biggest difference they brought ( besides volume buying and deleting middle management larceny ) was crushing the margins. Not that long ago, smaller independents could make good coin, treat and pay their good employees well, and serve their communities well. Now, their is no such thing as a small independent ( ex Whitakers, doing quite well, thank you ) because of the volume it takes to make money with the margins allowed. A story I know of recently, the owner of Whitakers ( son of founder ) spends virtually 24/7 on the 1,5 and 10th. He makes good money and rewards his KEY people well. The rest, they come and they go. Crest and BFL have similar business models. They earn their stroke through sheer volume as all in an industry with laughable margins. Your Targets and Wall Marts don't need to worry so much as they have the insanely more profitable hba sides to make up for the grocery sides.
Long and short, okc was one of the first to feel the wrath of wall mart, who went from zero market share to double digits within a few years of entering this market. Not all bad as they did actually lower everyone's food bill. As a result though, less competition, more standardized offerings, and a lot of good folks getting out of the business for greener pastures.
Sorry for being so long and pointless. It irks me to no end to hear of the general dissatisfaction amongst the general public.
Here's to finding the right mix of quality, variety and value in every area of OKC!

I agree. It seems like if there is one thing just about everyone agrees OKC is lacking in it's this.

OKC isn't the only city blanketed with Wal-Marts though. Tulsa is just as saturated and they have a better grocery market than OKC. A lot of people blame lack of wine sales but Oklahoma isn't the only state that doesn't allow wine sales yet OKC is probably one of the few large cities in the country with this problem. Whole Foods is great and everything but its a niche store. One part in this not usually mentioned is Homeland. Most markets have a dominant mid-tier grocer. In Little Rock, its Kroger, in Houston its H-E-B, in Charlotte its Harris Teeter, and in Tulsa its Reasor's. The closest OKC has to this is Homeland, and it is priced accordingly. The difference is except for a few select stores, most Homelands are dumps, outdated and dirty. I usually do my shopping at Crest but I have to pass two crappy Homelands and one Neighborhood Market to get there. If another player ever tried to go after that market in OKC, Homeland would be in deep trouble. I wonder if it might be of benefit for another company to buy out Homeland and commit to remodeling and modernizing the stores. If most Homelands were like the one on May and Britton or the one at SW 104th and Penn, it wouldn't be a bad place to shop and would fill the mid-level tier quite well.

Could we have a few more user names that start with "sooner"? If you don't look closely, this thread looks like someone arguing with themself.

Having been in the retail grocery industry going on 40 years, this thread is most interesting. It is great that you returned to OKC to live. Welcome home.
There is one thing on all these threads I cannot understand. The presumption that okc is negligent and backwards offends my Okieness to no end. You have supposedly moved back from Charlotte and know exactly how a real grocer should look. You say you support local chains, but only mention one. Homeland is employee owned and operated, BFL is locally owned and operated but you fail to mention either in your comments. I know the locations in your area intimately and take umbrage with your comment re: " two nasty Homelands." All those locations are operated quite well by industry standards and I have no qualms with shopping any.
I challenge you and all the community here to offer the definitive model of the perfect grocer for our needs. I don't see the be all/end all around, and if there were, it would be different tomorrow. In the meantime, my industry will continue to respond quickly to the wants and needs of the community.
While I think the mantra of supporting local business is great, is there any curiosity with the employee conditions the various companies require?
Once again, welcome home and look forward to your response.

I never said OKC was backwards. I have found it quite the opposite. This grocery situation though is the one thing both newcomers and long time residents agree is lacking compared to nearly every other city, including Tulsa, and though has improved in the last couple of years still has a ways to go. There are a few very nice Homelands but there are also many not-so-nice ones. If there were more stores like the May and Britton Homeland, Crest Fresh Market, and Uptown Grocery scattered throughout the metro this would no longer be an issue.

Wow. Overreact much? It sounds as if you and I are actually on the same page about Crest. They are not "struggling," as in "going out of business" struggling, but they've made changes to the 23rd and Meridian store to try to capture more middle-class and upscale customers, but after talking to the manager, they've already abandoned some of these plans.

By "advertising," I realize they won't buy a TV spot or newspaper ad (and that wouldn't be effective anyway), but when they introduced new product lines in the store they didn't even have in-store marketing. That is merchandising 101. I think they've probably lost a lot of customers like myself and are trying to get them back. So when I say "struggling," I'm saying they're "struggling to adapt their business model" to the changes in the local market.

The grocery market in OKC is changing. Crest has to stay abreast of the changes. The days of simply going head to head with Wal-Mart for downscale shoppers and offering a few odds and ends to more upscale buyers are over. They need to do some marketing research and shake things up with their suppliers.

As for the store on the South side, it is very nice and you'll notice I didn't reference it in my post.

No overreaction here, I was just really stunned to see someone post what sounded like hard information about Crest struggling, that's all, and that's how it read to me. I was just interested in where you had picked up the info, that's all. Sorry if it sounded like an overreaction. It's all good :)

I have always said Wall Mart has taken all the fun from the grocery business. The biggest difference they brought ( besides volume buying and deleting middle management larceny ) was crushing the margins. Not that long ago, smaller independents could make good coin, treat and pay their good employees well, and serve their communities well. Now, their is no such thing as a small independent ( ex Whitakers, doing quite well, thank you ) because of the volume it takes to make money with the margins allowed. A story I know of recently, the owner of Whitakers ( son of founder ) spends virtually 24/7 on the 1,5 and 10th. He makes good money and rewards his KEY people well. The rest, they come and they go. Crest and BFL have similar business models. They earn their stroke through sheer volume as all in an industry with laughable margins. Your Targets and Wall Marts don't need to worry so much as they have the insanely more profitable hba sides to make up for the grocery sides.
Long and short, okc was one of the first to feel the wrath of wall mart, who went from zero market share to double digits within a few years of entering this market. Not all bad as they did actually lower everyone's food bill. As a result though, less competition, more standardized offerings, and a lot of good folks getting out of the business for greener pastures.
Sorry for being so long and pointless. It irks me to no end to hear of the general dissatisfaction amongst the general public.
Here's to finding the right mix of quality, variety and value in every area of OKC!

As a worker in the grocery industry for a decade working for an independent, your statement rings all too true.

My favorite grocery store used to be Snyders IGA at Hefner and Penn.
When I was a child it was Busley's . . . Which morphed into Red Owl.
Red Owl had sort of scary paper bags. Think about a mean looking Red Owl.
No wonder they went away.

I miss the IGA in French Market Mall. They had those old, crappy automatic doors when I was a kid (back in '96)... I tried to enter through the exit door and it closed on me. I was stuck there until someone rushed over to set off the door's sensor. :mad:

My strategy:

Braums for Milk, bread & eggs.
Sam's for fresh produce in bulk, some frozen fruit/veggies & frozen fish.
Whole Foods for everything else.

Sometimes I end up at Target, but their produce & meat section is horrible! Produce might actually be worse than Walmart. So much for "upscale!"

When has Target ever been "upscale?"

When has Target ever been "upscale?"

I see what you're doing wrong. You pronounce it TAR-get. I go to a better place called tar-JAY.

Sounds like just a trace of an Okie accent there; my kids who grew up in Louisiana call it tar-ZHAY...

Back in the late 90's Baker's Supermarkets tried to move into the OKC market. They bought out Megamarket and tried to convert them into 'upscale' markets. They really spent quite a bit of money on the conversions. I worked on the construction crew and I remember the corporate folks talking to my job foreman and making a big deal about how nice they wanted things.
I was pretty impressed with the final product. It reminded me of the nicer stores I've seen on the east coast.
They lasted a year and had to pull out of the market. Why? Because the looked 'too nice' so they most cost more so a lot of people would actively avoid them. Buy 4 Less bought the stores and promptly ripped out all of the nicer features just so people would shop there. I remember seeing the $200K track lighting system that was over the produce area sitting in a dumpster.
At the time, and I don't think OKC has changed that much in this regard, we are just too cheap. It's more than just grocery stores. It just seems to be a mentality of the bulk of the people here.

I agree that Target's meat section sucks big time. I almost never buy meat there, partly because...well, there isn't any. Or it's way overpriced. Their produce section is hit or miss. They're pretty decent for everything else though.

I've noticed a strong "oh well, that's good enough" attitude about a lot of things in Oklahoma. It's like a lot of people are only willing to spend the absolute minimum they can get away with, even if it severely undermines the quality. That's probably how Walmart got such a strong foothold here in the first place. I wish people would learn the difference between being money-smart and being a cheapskate.

I went to the Homeland at 18th and Classen today. That is simply the finest grocery store I have ever been in. I walked in and the smell just overtook me with pleasantness. The place was clean and had such a great selection and good prices. On top of that, the layout and design of the place was top notch. Way to go Homeland!

On a more serious note, I went to Buy For Less on NW Expressway last week. It's no Crest Fresh Market, but its definitely better than most Homelands.

I think we need to step back and think about some of the sentiments expressed here, particularly as it relates to this implied notion that if you don't like upscale, you must be a stupid cheapskate. Let's keep in mind that not everyone enjoys the discretionary income obviously available to some in this thread, and thus permits them the luxury of being more selective. But that doesn't make the folks with lesser income stupid nor less selective. It may be nothing more than a necessary management of available resources.

We must also be cautious about the notion of snob appeal. Lets face it, folks, its groceries. Groceries. Yes, like anything, there are variations in quality, freshness, and presentation, and with that comes variations in cost, but at some point we have to realize at least in part there's a great deal of bandwagoning going along with "Ooh, I shop at Whole Foods or BeautfulMart or <insert whatever market you want>". At some point, you have to realize that if you buy a banana, once you leave the store, you peel it the same way no matter where the receipt says it was purchased.

Not being critical of Whole Foods per se, just offering a cautionary note that its very easy to draw a notion of some odd moral virtue merely for the fact that you shop at a "nicer" grocery store.

I, for one, didn't mean to imply any moral superiority or anything like that. My dislike for shopping at Walmart has nothing to do with it being "low class" and everything to do with it being crowded, noisy, and sometimes dirty (depending on the store). But I go there because I definitely don't have enough discretionary income to be shopping at the "nice" stores every time. I just kind of wish the discount stores could be a bit nicer, though I guess that's probably asking too much.