Imagine that....

http://money.cnn.com/2012/08/30/autos/volt-sales/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

The Volt is a car I'd love to have if it was 30-50% cheaper. They're finally starting to do some deals and incentives that get's it alot close to what I'd expect to pay for a compact car.

I agree... the price is keeping a lot of people away. I remember when the DVD player came out it was $500+ and now you can get one for $25

I agree... the price is keeping a lot of people away. I remember when the DVD player came out it was $500+ and now you can get one for $25

If only the city infrastructure had charge stations implemented. Several problems with electronic cars:

1. Limited range. Don't expect to take it out of town without some planning for re-charging the vehicle.
2. Long re-charge times. The quickest charge so far is within 20 to 30 minutes.
3. Fire departments still don't have a plan on how to rescue passengers in a electric car. This came from our Driver Safety Training coordinator who issues Defensive Driving Classes for the State of Oklahoma. Imagine that! You're trapped in your Volt and there's a fire ... there is no official plan on how to rescue you or how safe it would be to the rescue team (without getting electrocuted).

If only the city infrastructure had charge stations implemented. Several problems with electronic cars:

1. Limited range. Don't expect to take it out of town without some planning for re-charging the vehicle.
2. Long re-charge times. The quickest charge so far is within 20 to 30 minutes.
3. Fire departments still don't have a plan on how to rescue passengers in a electric car. This came from our Driver Safety Training coordinator who issues Defensive Driving Classes for the State of Oklahoma. Imagine that! You're trapped in your Volt and there's a fire ... there is no official plan on how to rescue you or how safe it would be to the rescue team (without getting electrocuted).
Ranges are already trending up pretty sharply. I think the charging only seems like a big inconvenience because of the way we are used to doing things. If you recharge overnight it's really not a big deal at all. Electrics are not going to immediately replace the family car for trips, to be sure, but they would work fine for a large number of people in their daily commutes, even with their currently-limited ranges. There's some pretty good tech blogs out there where people keep journals about owning one. I think they'll be just fine for a lot of people.

Plus, the volt also uses gas, so that when you need to go on a long drive it will kick in as needed. It's pure electric for short trips though. So range isn't an issue.

I'd be all in if the price was much lower. Same goes for those SmartCars. We looked to get an 'everyday run around vehicle' like an all electric modified golf cart or a SmartCar, but the price didn't justify it for what you got.

Plus, the volt also uses gas, so that when you need to go on a long drive it will kick in as needed. It's pure electric for short trips though. So range isn't an issue.

Talk shoe host Howard Clark likes his all electric Nissan Leaf aside from having "range anxiety". Unlike the Volt it has no gas motor for backup. http://www.clarkhoward.com/news/clarkhoward/cars/clark-reviews-his-new-nissan-leaf/nFrSW/ He got it for $24,000 after federal and state credits.

As a gearhead, I would LOVE to have a Volt for a commuter. Fantastic technology in that car, and it's the only "hybrid" setup I like. I'd never use gas during the week. That would be awesome. Of course, I'd probably tinker with it and void the warranty to get an extra 10 miles a charge out it or something.

But 40 grand? That's a lot of gas to (not) burn to break even over just about any other comparable car. Plus...If I'm spending that much, it's going to need to be nicer. Slap that drive train in a CTS and keep the price (and subsidy)...You'll have people lining up around the block.

The next-gen Volt will be better and cheaper. Looking forward to see what they come up with.

http://freebeacon.com/consumers-still-dont-want-a-chevy-volt/

GM is practically giving away the Chevy Volt, but that has not been enough to keep it in production.
For the second time this year, the bailed out automaker will suspend production of the electric car so popular with Capitol Hill. The Michigan assembly plant that builds the car will close for four weeks between September and October.

The announcement comes after a record-setting August for the Volt. GM sold 2,500 Volts in August, a 700 percent increase from 2011. The new sales were driven by the company’s dropping the monthly price of the nearly $40,000 car to $169 per month—on par with the monthly cost of the $15,000 Kia Forte.

Government has also helped drive sales by providing car buyers with a $7,500 tax write-off for purchasing the Volt. Meanwhile states like California now allow Volts into carpool lanes regardless of how many passengers a driver is carrying. Despite these perks, GM admits that consumers are still avoiding the car: GM confirmed the plant idling, saying it will continue to “match supply with demand” for both the Volt and the Chevrolet Malibu sedan that is also made at the plant. The automaker declined to specify how long the plant will be closed.

http://freebeacon.com/consumers-still-dont-want-a-chevy-volt/

GM is practically giving away the Chevy Volt, but that has not been enough to keep it in production.
For the second time this year, the bailed out automaker will suspend production of the electric car so popular with Capitol Hill. The Michigan assembly plant that builds the car will close for four weeks between September and October.

The announcement comes after a record-setting August for the Volt. GM sold 2,500 Volts in August, a 700 percent increase from 2011. The new sales were driven by the company’s dropping the monthly price of the nearly $40,000 car to $169 per month—on par with the monthly cost of the $15,000 Kia Forte.

Government has also helped drive sales by providing car buyers with a $7,500 tax write-off for purchasing the Volt. Meanwhile states like California now allow Volts into carpool lanes regardless of how many passengers a driver is carrying. Despite these perks, GM admits that consumers are still avoiding the car: GM confirmed the plant idling, saying it will continue to “match supply with demand” for both the Volt and the Chevrolet Malibu sedan that is also made at the plant. The automaker declined to specify how long the plant will be closed.

Yeah, that's not a slanted hit piece or anything.

They're "closing" the plant to retool. Like they do all the time. They're retooling for the newly redesigned Impalas.

Well hiya, OGTS! Nice to see you.

I'd be all in if the price was much lower. Same goes for those SmartCars. We looked to get an 'everyday run around vehicle' like an all electric modified golf cart or a SmartCar, but the price didn't justify it for what you got.

Yeah - price is always a factor in making a decision when money is involved.

Heya back :D

Yeah, that's not a slanted hit piece or anything.

They're "closing" the plant to retool. Like they do all the time. They're retooling for the newly redesigned Impalas.

When GM admits that consumers are still avoiding the car (VOLT) it’s an undeniable fact.
Perhaps it’s your opinion that is slanted?

When GM admits that consumers are still avoiding the car (VOLT) it’s an undeniable fact.
Perhaps it’s your opinion that is slanted?

You post a link to a crappy far right wing "news" site that states on their "about us" page that their primary function is ripping on the left. They even admit their bias.

My opinion is slanted. I don't like half-truth articles with cherry-picked facts and myopic viewpoints. That's not news, it's a political hit piece. GM didn't "admit" that, the yahoo writing that article did. What the actual quote said (in the link provided to a Reuters-based article) was "Sales of the plug-in hybrid car are up 272 percent since last year, but are below initial expectations when GM launched the Volt in late 2010, followed by its near-identical version for Europe, the Opel Ampera."

Nowhere in there does it say consumers are avoiding the car. It does say that the numbers (that happen to be up 272 percent) "are below initial expectations" from 2010. So I'd say it IS a deniable fact. That right wingnutty website you linked to MADE THAT CRAP UP.

You post a link to a crappy far right wing "news" site that states on their "about us" page that their primary function is ripping on the left. They even admit their bias.

My opinion is slanted. I don't like half-truth articles with cherry-picked facts and myopic viewpoints. That's not news, it's a political hit piece. GM didn't "admit" that, the yahoo writing that article did. What the actual quote said (in the link provided to a Reuters-based article) was "Sales of the plug-in hybrid car are up 272 percent since last year, but are below initial expectations when GM launched the Volt in late 2010, followed by its near-identical version for Europe, the Opel Ampera."

Nowhere in there does it say consumers are avoiding the car. It does say that the numbers (that happen to be up 272 percent) "are below initial expectations" from 2010. So I'd say it IS a deniable fact. That right wingnutty website you linked to MADE THAT CRAP UP.

Oh yes, keep telling yourself that those Chevy Volt’s are in high demand!




From few months ago….TOP TEN GREAT FEATURES OF THE CHEVY VOLT

10. The Chevy Volt is carbon neutral (if the car is filled with dirt and a
hole is cut in the roof so a tree can grow out of it).

9. The Chevy Volt will improve the U.S.'s standing in the world, because if
that’s the best U.S. Government Motors can do, there's no reason for
other countries to feel threatened.

8. The Chevy Volt is made for the green lifestyle, because its 5-hour
charge time gives you time to sort your recyclables, change the
incandescent light bulbs in your house to CFLs, install solar panels on
your roof, and watch An Inconvenient Truth…. all before hitting the road!

7. The absurdly high price tag of the Chevy Volt shows your dedication
to a green lifestyle.

6. The Chevy Volt can help regenerate our ocean’s depleted coral reefs
with only a modest decrease in re-sale value.

5. Since the government is used to paying $600 for a hammer, getting a
car’s cost down to $41,000 is actually pretty good for them.

4. The Chevy Volt is a great car for a parent to give to teenagers, as the
charge time means they have to give five hours’ notice before going
anywhere, and you can rest assured they're not going to go very far.

3. The Chevy Volt has greater fuel efficiency the less you drive it. The
Volt is even comparable in fuel efficiency to a bicycle if you never drive
it at all.

2. GM’s strategy of making the Chevy Volt unappealing to consumers is
financially sound, since GM loses money on each Volt is sells.

1. The Chevy Volt’s inconvenience and cost encourage the greenest
activity of all: Staying home.

I didn't tell anybody that. I was quoting an article that was citing a GM employee as their source. You posted WHAAARRRGARBLE and DERP.

And you've already resorted to copypasta from freeperland.

That's some nice defendin' your position there Lou.

I didn't tell anybody that. I was quoting an article that was citing a GM employee as their source. You posted WHAAARRRGARBLE and DERP.

And you've already resorted to copypasta from freeperland.

That's some nice defendin' your position there Lou.

Electric cars are not much of an answer, at least anytime soon.
The VOLT has been a huge disappointment no matter what you say.

How soon? And then walk me through how to get to that point in the future from today.

Nobody knows how soon…. but when that day comes they will need to be much cheaper and have much better range if they ever hope to make much of difference.
Right now the public rejects the VOLT, even with heavy subsidies, that will end someday.

The Volt wasn't meant to be a panacea for all the ills of the world. It's a stopgap. It's a great step in the right direction, and in my opinion...It's the best hybrid out there right now. We can't go from zero to everybody having a plugin in a year. It will take at LEAST a decade or two. They started with limited production numbers and they're selling to early adopters. The next wave will be cheaper and better, as will the one after that.

And before I die, I might get to have a dragster that makes 1,000 lb ft of torque from 1RPM and only a couple of moving parts instead of one that has dozens of moving parts and kills a cute monkey in Madagascar every time I hammer down.

The Volt wasn't meant to be a panacea for all the ills of the world. It's a stopgap. It's a great step in the right direction, and in my opinion...It's the best hybrid out there right now. We can't go from zero to everybody having a plugin in a year. It will take at LEAST a decade or two. They started with limited production numbers and they're selling to early adopters. The next wave will be cheaper and better, as will the one after that.


The thing is…… we don’t know if this^ will be fact… and neither does anyone else!
It could happen, but right now it’s far from certain that electrical vehicles will become a major part of everyday life for most car drivers.

Right. Just like computers.

They were super fast, the government stayed out of the industry completely, and everyone could afford one.

Gotcha.

The deal is that you haven’t got a “Gotcha”.

What if hydrogen or something else takes off first?
Electric cars have many hard to overcome problems.
It’s just as likely if not more likely that some other fuel source will become the dominant fuel source.

I suppose you are free to believe that. I don't see any evidence for it. Especially abroad, electric cars are being pursued by the private market at rates far greater and faster than any other alternative fuel. You don't have entire companies being built and selling production cars making them run on hydrogen.

Even without any subsidies, the innovation is happening and being targeted in electric. Where you see private investment and innovation is more likely to be the "dominant" solution.

History is littered with failed technology’s and cures that in their day were once thought to be the next best thing.

History is littered with failed technology’s and cures that in their day were once thought to be the next best thing.

I think you are afraid of, and ridicule anything that challenges "king oil". Whether it is more roads or more gas burners you are for it as it serves your own financial interests. Got it.

Don't disagree.

Just think odds are on the side of this current innovation. But you are right. We will see.

In the mean time, I am perfectly happy to support this science.

That’s a fair point.

I think you are afraid of, and ridicule anything that challenges "king oil". Whether it is more roads or more gas burners you are for it as it serves your own financial interests. Got it.

You’re nuts. But I expect that from you.
My number one energy goal has always been energy security at an affordable price regardless of what the energy fuel source is, all while maintaining the freedom that a vehicle gives the middle class.
This represents prosperity for the masses.

Right now and for the foreseeable future this prosperity still mostly comes from oil, NG, coal, nuclear…or pretty much just what we have been using.

Electric cars - big deal, they still have to drive on a $100 million per mile freeway. And with no gasoline tax to pay for the road where is the money going to come from? The average commute in the US is almost an hour round trip so unless they can bump up the battery life it aint going to make it for most people. Besides, using electricty for cars is almost like using corn for fuel - we are dang near tapped on the electricity production and now we are going to start using it to power cars as well? Where is all the new electricty going to come from, and how much is it going to raise the cost of turning on my TV? Are the oil speculators going to become electricty speculators and drive up the price?

Factor in what happens to demand when a good (car fuel) becomes perceived as free (or a greatly reduced cost) and there is no way our current road network supply could handle the demand.

If only the city infrastructure had charge stations implemented. Several problems with electronic cars:

1. Limited range. Don't expect to take it out of town without some planning for re-charging the vehicle.
2. Long re-charge times. The quickest charge so far is within 20 to 30 minutes.
3. Fire departments still don't have a plan on how to rescue passengers in a electric car. This came from our Driver Safety Training coordinator who issues Defensive Driving Classes for the State of Oklahoma. Imagine that! You're trapped in your Volt and there's a fire ... there is no official plan on how to rescue you or how safe it would be to the rescue team (without getting electrocuted).
Pretty sure DT has some. Also so does Whole Foods.

Are they still catching on fire?

Electric cars - big deal, they still have to drive on a $100 million per mile freeway. And with no gasoline tax to pay for the road where is the money going to come from? The average commute in the US is almost an hour round trip so unless they can bump up the battery life it aint going to make it for most people. Besides, using electricty for cars is almost like using corn for fuel - we are dang near tapped on the electricity production and now we are going to start using it to power cars as well? Where is all the new electricty going to come from, and how much is it going to raise the cost of turning on my TV?
http://www.bts.gov/publications/omnistats/volume_03_issue_04/html/figure_02.html old, but I doubt it has doubled or tripled.
As far as generation goes-it should lower the price per kwh. Most ev charging happens at night, when demand is low. The extra facilities to do that generation are already built. They have to be otherwise we would brown out for like 8 hours a day. We are not at all "tapped" on electricity production, and especially not at night.

What does miles travel have to do with time spent driving? Average time the car is running is 49 minute - and that is the average meaning about half the people have a longer time to drive.

http://media.economist.com/images/images-magazine/2011/04/30/us/20110430_usc602.gif

Anyhow, I am actually bored of this subject already :). I was only pointing out that electric cars are only treating the symptoms. Peace out.

The priciest version of the Tesla Model S can do at least 200 miles on a charge. (EPA says 265 in its extended-range mode.) Then again, it costs somewhere on the wrong side of a hundred grand. The base version is half that, but it has a smaller battery pack and less range.

Speaking as a person who paid $110 in 1974 for a pocket calculator that can't do as much as the ones they give away as party favors today, I'm happy to let the early adopters pay the heavy freight, and wait for the benefits to trickle down to the rest of us.

You post a link to a crappy far right wing "news" site that states on their "about us" page that their primary function is ripping on the left. They even admit their bias.

My opinion is slanted. I don't like half-truth articles with cherry-picked facts and myopic viewpoints. That's not news, it's a political hit piece. GM didn't "admit" that, the yahoo writing that article did. What the actual quote said (in the link provided to a Reuters-based article) was "Sales of the plug-in hybrid car are up 272 percent since last year, but are below initial expectations when GM launched the Volt in late 2010, followed by its near-identical version for Europe, the Opel Ampera."

Nowhere in there does it say consumers are avoiding the car. It does say that the numbers (that happen to be up 272 percent) "are below initial expectations" from 2010. So I'd say it IS a deniable fact. That right wingnutty website you linked to MADE THAT CRAP UP.
You can interpret that most consumers are avoiding the car if they have to idle the plant "to match inventory to demand", I think most people aren't avoiding the Volt because it is an electric/gas hybrid, they are avoiding it because of initial ownership costs. Most people can't bring themselves to spend almost 40K for what is practically an electric version of a Chevy Cruze when that car is almost half the price.

I like the idea of the Volt, Leaf, Prius, etc. but until they get price competitive with a comparable gas model (meaning a slight premium over gas) it is still going to be hard for the mass market to accept. That is the reality of the market for those cars. I would like one as a commuter as long as I had a "fun car" for weekends and such.

The Prius is doing pretty well, actually. The others are a very, very new thing but they are matching the adoption curve of the Prius. The price drops are matching as well. I think by 2017 full electric and gas backup electrics are going to be as far along as the Prius is today.

How long do the batteries last? How affordable is it to replace them? How green is it to have all the dead lead sitting in the landfill?

If I had $100k to drop on an electric car:

http://www.teslamotors.com/modelx

http://www.teslamotors.com/tesla_theme/images/modelx/falcon_frames/full40.jpg

There is a Tesla "showroom" at Park Meadows Mall in Lone Tree (far south Denver burb) and a service center in South Denver. They have had some cars in the mall showroom a few times but they mainly have a frame/drivetrain display. There is also a Fisker (at Rickenbaugh Cadillac/Volvo) dealer on the south edge of Downtown, they usually have one in the showroom.

The priciest version of the Tesla Model S can do at least 200 miles on a charge. (EPA says 265 in its extended-range mode.) Then again, it costs somewhere on the wrong side of a hundred grand. The base version is half that, but it has a smaller battery pack and less range.

Speaking as a person who paid $110 in 1974 for a pocket calculator that can't do as much as the ones they give away as party favors today, I'm happy to let the early adopters pay the heavy freight, and wait for the benefits to trickle down to the rest of us.

Tesla knew they could not sell to the mass market initially, since the first generations were going to be expensive no mater what they produced, to compete they tried starting with those at the high end price points and over time entering wider markets as the costs went down. The first generation was a limited production sports car. They are now in the second generation trying to compete with luxury modes. If all goes well in a few more years they might be able to sell something most people could afford.

I had seen stuff about the Tesla Roadster but never really paid attention to it, then when I saw it in the showroom I told my wife that looks just like a Lotus Elise, sure enough when I got home and looked it up that is the platform it was built on. I have seen a few of the Roadsters running around town here, usually when I am walking around LoDo.

How soon? And then walk me through how to get to that point in the future from today.

http://www.teslamotors.com/

Sooner than you might think. The Tesla S could be a game changer. Yes it is very expensive right now (that admission of fact is for ou48a, PP, and all the others that insist the American car designers are incapable of producing a viable electric vehicle in the near future), but prices inevitably come down on new technologies. The Tesla S has been very well received by the traditional automotive press and not just environmentalists. Tesla is a company to be watched.

http://www.tradingfloor.com/posts/tesla-walking-a-tightrope-with-cash-stock-is-heavily-shorted-1842454066

I certainly hope Tesla succeeds. Elon Musk is an old school entrepreneur/inventor reminiscent of the Howard Hughes' type. The technology in the cars is very impressive and from everything I have read they are extremely well engineered and built. I hope to get a close up look at one some day.

I think if Tesla can pull a significant market share for their electric designs, others will be forced to improve their technology. I would like to see hydrogen fuel cell technology be developed further. BMW, and Mercedes have built viable H2 cars - all that is lacking is the distribution infrastructure (kind of like CNG).

GM to move production of Volt part to US - Tulsa World: Transportation (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/transportation/gm-to-move-production-of-volt-part-to-us/article_bee02520-75c3-51de-9724-58d632a4b9d5.html)