http://newsok.com/prague-student-denied-diploma-for-commencement-speech/article/3702492

At first I thought this was a faily innocuous statement during this girl's speech but the more I thought about I changed my mind. She submitted her speech in advance for approval and knew what was approved. She chose to deviate from that approved speech using a word that she knew would not be approved. I know how students talk and I'm sure that none of them were offended but that isn't the point. She chose to thumb her nose at authority and her parents are backing her in that. They are doing her no favors. I saw her being interviewed on the news tonight and she chose to use the word again as if to say "I can do whatever I want". The lesson her parents need to teach her are that it's fine to be an individual but there are prices to pay when you decide not to conform to what's expected and allowed in society.

Yeah, this is a hard one.

Especially since I seriously doubt she just accidentally happened to use "hell" rather than "heck". And also because that phrasing would have never been approved, for good reason.

Deny somebody's diploma because they said 'hell' in a commencement speech. Yeah, that makes sense.

What are we becoming?

If "what the heck" was in the planned and approved speach, and she mispoke and said "what the hell", then the school needs to get over it. When you're reading, and speaking out loud, it's easy for a colloquialism to jump in there by accident. There needs to be common sense in implementation of rules, and intent should be a big part of it.

If "What the heck" wasn't approved, then maybe yeah, some punishment is deserved.

Hell? The word hell? A bad word? I dont get it. Its ok to say it if you are describing the place you supposedly go to if you are bad but to say "how the hell do I know" instead of "how the heck do I know"...? Is that really offensive? I think this is absurd. The school admins should remove the stick from you know where and give her her well earned diploma.

Thinks of the few students that constantly disrupted learning or the ones that bullied/hazed kids and they still get their diplomas but this girl says H-E-DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS (gasp!) and doesnt get hers? Lighten up folks

It's not absurd at all. And as I said, the word itself isn't the point. She chose to use a word that was not approved and she knew would not be approved. She was thumbing her nose at authority and that was not the place to do it. I saw her interview on TV and she was fairly arrogant about it which is obviously something she picked up from her parents. Again, her parents are typical of many of the problems our public schools face now. They teach their kids to disrespect authority and back them up in it.

It's not absurd at all. And as I said, the word itself isn't the point. She chose to use a word that was not approved and she knew would not be approved. She was thumbing her nose at authority and that was not the place to do it. I saw her interview on TV and she was fairly arrogant about it which is obviously something she picked up from her parents. Again, her parents are typical of many of the problems our public schools face now. They teach their kids to disrespect authority and back them up in it.

You KNOW she thumbed her nose, and it was her intent? Do can't see how she could have meant to say "what the heck" and slipped and used hell instead?

Anyone who thinks they couldn't possibly accidently slip must get tired from drying off their socks (from all the times they walk on water).

wallbreaker, all I can tell you is what I saw and how she said what she said. It was obvious to me anyway. The word was not an accident and she has never contended that it was.

I suspect that the people making the decisions saw what she did as an intentional defiance, otherwise I'm sure they wouldn't feel the need to punish her.

I suspect that the people making the decisions saw what she did as an intentional defiance, otherwise I'm sure they wouldn't feel the need to punish her.

If they have a valid reason to believe that, then like I said, punishment makes sense. I haven't been able to find anything that claims that she was "Trying to make a statement" or "thumb her nose" so from the outside everything looks like she mispoke. But I'm happy to get alternative information.

wallbreaker, all I can tell you is what I saw and how she said what she said. It was obviously to me anyway. The word was not an accident and she has never contended that it was.

Is it online somewhere? I'd love to see it.

Maybe the people in the school district are just mean but I think the more logical explanation is they felt it was a defiance.

I can't imagine they would want to punish someone for what they thought was just an honest mistake.

Again, her parents are typical of many of the problems our public schools face now. They teach their kids to disrespect authority and back them up in it.

Are you serious? Her parents raised a girl that has earned all A's her entire life, is valedictorian and received a full scholarship to college....ya, her parents are definitely the problem when it comes to public schools...

She said hell instead of heck, not a big deal and I dont think she is disrespecting authority. I think the authority is overstepping their, well, authority. Where does it say she cant get her diploma if she says hell in a valedictorian speech?

I'm sure the folks of Elmore felt justified banning dancing too...

Are you serious? Her parents raised a girl that has earned all A's her entire life, is valedictorian and received a full scholarship to college....ya, her parents are definitely the problem when it comes to public schools...

She said hell instead of heck, not a big deal and I dont think she is disrespecting authority. I think the authority is overstepping their, well, authority. Where does it say she cant get her diploma if she says hell in a valedictorian speech?

There are many life lessons more important than the things you list. As I said, the word she used is not important and the fact that she chose to use a word that she knew wasn't approved is disrespecting authority. There is nothing which states that you can't use that word in a speech but there is certainly something which would apply when she purposely uses a word which she knows wasn't approved. They have stated that all that is required is an apology for deviating from her speech and she would have her diplomy at once. It's her choice to make.

I'm sure the folks of Elmore felt justified banning dancing too...

So obviously you feel that any kind of language is approriate for a graduation speech and it should be anything goes? That is a total non-sequitur.

So obviously you feel that any kind of language is approriate for a graduation speech and it should be anything goes? That is a total non-sequitur.

Actually, I was trying to be funny. But it was obviously six-degrees from humorous to you (or visa versa).

Actually, I was trying to be funny. But it was obviously six-degrees from humorous to you (or visa versa).

Mea culpa. I saw nothing indicating humor so I apologize.

Even if this was intentional defiance, the school needs to get over it. This is absolutely ridiculous. She was a great student for 4 years. She earned her diploma. I mean, what th hell?!?

Even if this was intentional defiance, the school needs to get over it. This is absolutely ridiculous. She was a great student for 4 years. She earned her diploma. I mean, what the hell?!?

Are you serious? Her parents raised a girl that has earned all A's her entire life, is valedictorian and received a full scholarship to college....ya, her parents are definitely the problem when it comes to public schools...


She said hell instead of heck, not a big deal and I dont think she is disrespecting authority. I think the authority is overstepping their, well, authority. Where does it say she cant get her diploma if she says hell in a valedictorian speech?
+100


Even if this was intentional defiance, the school needs to get over it. This is absolutely ridiculous. She was a great student for 4 years. She earned her diploma. I mean, what the hell?!?
Absolutely right.

What's more, this is another one of those "great" stories putting Oklahoma in a "great" light nationally... all over an innocuous 4-letter word that has become so ingrained in our society's everyday language that many don't even consider it profane or inappropriate.

I don't understand why the school administration, other than it being a battle of wills and ego, is making such a "federal case" out of her use of this least of offensive "swear" words... although, I think it would make an interesting federal case should it be pursued...

Worst case scenario? Administrators stick by their guns and don't give her the diploma. When is the last time you ever looked at your HS diploma? HS diplomas are like HS letter jackets - they're a big deal until your first day of college and then are stored away, misplaced, or accidently thrown away.

I think the newspaper clippings and publicity are more likely to be saved, pulled out, and used as an example (good or bad) for her kids, than a diploma ever would be...

I want to know the legal reasons a school can hold a diploma, because I have a feeling this isn't one of those reasons.

Next thing you know they'll be listening to that damnable rock n roll and wearing dresses that show their knees! We gotta stop this now! -paraphrased from Dirty Dancing, a movie where a town of hicks stops the future from happening.

I think after 4 years of overachieving in school even a f-you to the principle and administration would be OK. It doesn't matter. She can go to college and get a degree, and worry about her GED later.

If we're going to punish this girl for maybe embarrassing some folks in the audience, what punishment should the administrators receive for embarrassing our entire state in front of the nation?

David Nootbaar said it's sadly ironic that his daughter, Kaitlin, was denied her diploma for saying “hell” in her valedictorian speech for Prague High School, where the mascot is the Red Devil. “In church on Sunday they say ‘hell' at least four times,” Nootbaar said, standing across from the school district's office, which includes an electronic marquee showing a small demon holding a pitchfork.




You can read more at http://newsok.com/prague-student-denied-diploma-for-commencement-speech/article/3702492#ixzz24BXEMQ70

but seriously, is there any need to do so?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocV5bGHdYag&safety_mode=true&persist_safety_mode=1&safe=active

Politcal correctness...political correctness everywhere!...

no diploma for using the word hell in a speech instead of heck . . . that is farking ridiculous. those administrators need to get their collective heads out of their esses or she needs to sue the shoot out of them. what about the first amendment fer cryin' out loud. geez. what a bunch of worthless, prissy, cokesockers.

IMO this is ridiculous and an example of people who find the comfort in the illusion they have power and feel very threatened when it is exposed they actually have none.

I personally think she had a speech written down and was most likely ad-libbing a bit (who wants to sit through a verbatim speech from some piece of paper) - add in nervousness and she (heaven forbid) for a kid for a second.

At worst it was a bit of civil disobedience. "Hell" is not one of those words that causes most people a seconds worth of pause. She didn't tell the system to "go to hell" or anything of the sort.

The school overreacted and now its getting them the negative attention they deserve.

I spent plenty of time in the principal's office when I was at PCHS and fortunately I had teachers who came to my defense most every time (Journalism teacher - Effinger - when the school said I couldn't take out full page ads in the school paper they didn't approve of) and once by my art teacher when the school wouldn't display some of my art even though it had won awards at a local college contest. Both times fortunately the administration backed down.

I hope the students do some protesting and additional pressure is placed on the school to turn her diploma over. If not, it really will matter not to her and the school will continue to nurse its wounds.

Next thing you know they'll be listening to that damnable rock n roll and wearing dresses that show their knees! We gotta stop this now! -paraphrased from Dirty Dancing, a movie where a town of hicks stops the future from happening.
Mothers of Prague!
Heed the warning before it's too late!
Watch for the tell-tale sign of corruption!
The moment your son leaves the house,
Does he rebuckle his knickerbockers below the knee?
Is there a nicotine stain on his index finger?
A dime novel hidden in the corn crib?
Is he starting to memorize jokes from Capt.
Billy's Whiz Bang?
Are certain words creeping into his conversation?
Words like Hell?"
And 'so's your old man?"
Well, if so my friends,
Ya got trouble...;)

I personally think she had a speech written down and was most likely ad-libbing a bit (who wants to sit through a verbatim speech from some piece of paper)

Obviously you've seen much better Power Point presentations than I have.

Free the Diploma!

What do we want?
[Her diploma!]
When do we want it?
[Now!]

Adding insult to injury, with a touch of irony . . .
(from the article)

Rick Martin, superintendent of the district, located about 60 miles east of Oklahoma City, issued a statement: “Speakers are allowed significant freedom in their remarks, but all speeches must be approved in advance as being appropriate for graduation exercises. In this case, Ms. Nootbar prepared an appropriate speech, which was approved by the high school principal. Unfortunately she did not present the speech as written and used language that was inappropriate for a graduation exercise.”

He misspelled Nootbaar's name in the statement.

Nootbaar roughly translates: "Brilliant Student."
Nootbar equals "Nut Bar"

(for demonstration purposes only)
Hey, hey, Mr. Rick
Time you quit being such a weenie.

So obviously you feel that any kind of language is approriate for a graduation speech and it should be anything goes? That is a total non-sequitur.

By God I think they should make an example of her and either give her a good flogging, waterboard her or really teach them young whipper snappers a lesson and burn her at the stake. Her actions shouldn't be tolerated, next thing you know she'll be skinny dipping in the Sea of Galilee.

I think about six months in The Kolache Mines ought to get her mind right . . .

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/8c/Cool_Hand_Luke_Martin.jpg/225px-Cool_Hand_Luke_Martin.jpg

If we're going to punish this girl for maybe embarrassing some folks in the audience, what punishment should the administrators receive for embarrassing our entire state in front of the nation?

That seems to happen a lot in Oklahoma.

"Okie From Prague" just doesn't have the same ring to it . . .
"(you're walkin' on) The Writin' Side of Me" on the other hand . . .
5Cic8kxIsvA

The hell you say!
No sheepskin for you!
-Diploma Nazi

^^^LMAO!!!^^^

(the A stands for ace)

That seems to happen a lot in Oklahoma.


So true. My wife and I watched an episode of "Here Comes Honey Boo-boo" the other day. My first reaction was, "Thank goodness...I just knew she was going to be from Oklahoma."

If we're going to punish this girl for maybe embarrassing some folks in the audience, what punishment should the administrators receive for embarrassing our entire state in front of the nation?

Perhaps forcing the prinicipal and administrators to watch "Here Comes Honey-Boo-Boo"?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/cultureshock/flashpoints/theater/images/clockwork_big.jpg

After all, it's on The Learning Channel . . .

All this girl did was 'quote' a line from a movie with the word hell in it.........BFD.............. those administrators are showing what type of power mongering idiots they really are...

"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a darn."
http://nighthawknews.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/gone-with-the-wind.jpg
(nah . . . not the same . . .)

By God I think they should make an example of her and either give her a good flogging, waterboard her or really teach them young whipper snappers a lesson and burn her at the stake. Her actions shouldn't be tolerated, next thing you know she'll be skinny dipping in the Sea of Galilee.

Maybe she used Obamas hot mic. She probably thought she was transmitting to Vladmir.

The frustrating thing is that this situation represents is when guidelines get blown up and administrators are made to look foolish.

It is perfectly reasonable to have some sort of contextual guidelines or standards covering what can be said at a school graduation. But they'd better be fairly loose guidelines that respect freedom of speech. And if the district had guidelines establishing that profanity (and, yes, I believe using the term "hell" in this way would be considered profane usage) was not acceptable, and she knew those rules going in, then there's a problem....

On the other hand....

To turn it into this federal case is serving no one.

The solution has to be somewhere in the middle. Compromise, mutual respect, and all that business. Unless I'm mistaken, the district said it would relent if she apologized for violating their content rules (however right or wrong they may be in everyone else's view), and that surely seems a way through this. Heavens, if she was so strident in her defense of the use of that word, she could always apologize "for violating the guidelines," and not the content itself. The district might not like that, but it would inevitably be played out in the media that she apologized, shifting the focus back on the administration.

The opposite extreme, of course, would be a protracted and embarrassing litigation that I believe the district would almost surely lose, costing the taxpayers a chunk of money and doing absolutely zero of benefit for the student (or anyone else), or even the notion of establishing content guidelines for a graduation speech. Sadly, I suspect a court date is ahead for all involved.

Everything, it seems, gets drawn as a hot line in sand these days. I, personally, don't like her choice of words at all. But I have a tough time taking it to the extreme of withholding her diploma, unless there was actually a rule in the district specifying that such was a potential consequence of violating the speech guidelines - which I seriously, seriously doubt. You can't make up rules on the fly, or at least you generally shouldn't be able to IMHO.

* sigh *

The Nootbaar Saga: F'n A's

So . . . Do you think The Academic Authorities out there in Weatherford are going to give her a pass--perhaps even an excused absence--for her upcoming appearances on Jay Leno, Jimmy Kimmel or Jimmy Fallon? Letterman?

Maybe they could give her an all expenses paid trip to San Francisco, necro this guy, and let him serve as a tour guide to "where it all began" . . .
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xM-lKl31d2c/Twy9X5A8RII/AAAAAAAAOs4/fj7UrYPKOs8/s400/mario%2Bsavio.jpg

Edited to Add:
You can't make up rules on the fly, or at least you generally shouldn't be able to IMHO.
Flys will be buttoned and/or zipped up.
Pants will be worn at waist height, with a belt.
Exposed shirt tails will not be tolerated.
Baseball caps will have the brims pointed in a rational direction.
Vice-Principals talking out their donkeys are par for the course.

Since "He's a Rebel" is too gender specific . . . Maybe this could serve as an apology?
Or at least the intro to the upcoming final fifteen minutes of fame on one of those TV shows?
EJKkxJqEaYc&feature=related

Maybe she used Obamas hot mic. She probably thought she was transmitting to Vladmir.

We're talking about a teenage girl who used the word 'hell' but good job on dragging Obama into the conversation.

I think after 4 years of overachieving in school even a f-you to the principle and administration would be OK. It doesn't matter. She can go to college and get a degree, and worry about her GED later.

Without the diploma, can she go to college...is that full scholarship she got now invalid? Or did she graduate and they are just denying the physical piece of paper that she might frame or store in a drawer someplace? In other words, if she submits her high school transcript, does it show that she graduated?

When I graduated, the diploma we were handed as we walked across the stage was a blank piece of paper. This was to ensure that nothing unacceptable would happen during the ceremony (it was a private religious high school and in that case, the use of Hell would have not been tolerated in the context she used) and to make sure all outstanding monies owed (tuition, books, supplies, fees etc) were paid before the actual diploma was bestowed

To put this in perspective...

I graduated from a high school in Missouri called Hale. That was the town name too and for Homecoming every 4 years they make and sale shirts that say, "Hell yes, I'm from Hale!"

These administrators are being re-DONK-u-lous and need to let it go...

If those administrators had half a brain, they'd give her the diploma and then restate their policy going forward, just to clear up any possible gray areas if there are any.....but then again, are they intelligent enough to do this and move on ?

if this went to litigation, it'd be like the couple getting a divorce and spending a couple of hours attorney fees fighting over a 5 dollar hammer.

Who appointed this administrator as censor? Of course this begs a bigger question of just what is the problem with the usage of hell? Is this a separation of church and state issue?

As has been pointed out, the school mascot is a DEVIL. This is such a joke. Talk about small towns and small minds. The autocrats have already sent their message to the girl. Send her the diploma already. What an embarrassing display.

Without the diploma, can she go to college...is that full scholarship she got now invalid? Or did she graduate and they are just denying the physical piece of paper that she might frame or store in a drawer someplace? In other words, if she submits her high school transcript, does it show that she graduated?
A graduates transcript is all that really matters to colleges. Its shows not only if you graduate but also GPA and courses taken.

The frustrating thing is that this situation represents is when guidelines get blown up and administrators are made to look foolish.

It is perfectly reasonable to have some sort of contextual guidelines or standards covering what can be said at a school graduation. But they'd better be fairly loose guidelines that respect freedom of speech. And if the district had guidelines establishing that profanity (and, yes, I believe using the term "hell" in this way would be considered profane usage) was not acceptable, and she knew those rules going in, then there's a problem....

On the other hand....

To turn it into this federal case is serving no one.

The solution has to be somewhere in the middle. Compromise, mutual respect, and all that business. Unless I'm mistaken, the district said it would relent if she apologized for violating their content rules (however right or wrong they may be in everyone else's view), and that surely seems a way through this. Heavens, if she was so strident in her defense of the use of that word, she could always apologize "for violating the guidelines," and not the content itself. The district might not like that, but it would inevitably be played out in the media that she apologized, shifting the focus back on the administration.

The opposite extreme, of course, would be a protracted and embarrassing litigation that I believe the district would almost surely lose, costing the taxpayers a chunk of money and doing absolutely zero of benefit for the student (or anyone else), or even the notion of establishing content guidelines for a graduation speech. Sadly, I suspect a court date is ahead for all involved.

Everything, it seems, gets drawn as a hot line in sand these days. I, personally, don't like her choice of words at all. But I have a tough time taking it to the extreme of withholding her diploma, unless there was actually a rule in the district specifying that such was a potential consequence of violating the speech guidelines - which I seriously, seriously doubt. You can't make up rules on the fly, or at least you generally shouldn't be able to IMHO.

* sigh *

Apparently there IS such a rule, as the school claims. Big whoop. They should get over it and give her diploma already. They could still send it in "protest." Most valedictorians would not want this much publicity in the future. They've made their point. Now they should move on.

They could've given the girl her diploma, then quietly remove her name from the wall of fame at the school, but apparently someone was too offended to not let it become a national spectacle.

Anybody know why she waited so long to attempt to get her diploma?

Apparently there IS such a rule, as the school claims. Big whoop. They should get over it and give her diploma already. They could still send it in "protest." Most valedictorians would not want this much publicity in the future. They've made their point. Now they should move on.

If this policy has been equally and uniformly enforced against every student who has ever slightly deviated from the script in the history of the Prague school district, then fine, hold the diploma. That's fair. If they're singling her out because of h-e-double hockeysticks, they're idiots and are depending on an eighteen year old kid backing down in order to save face.

Good luck with that.

The administrators will probably be more wise about picking their battles in the future.

We're talking about a teenage girl who used the word 'hell' but good job on dragging Obama into the conversation.


By God I think they should make an example of her and either give her a good flogging, waterboard her or really teach them young whipper snappers a lesson and burn her at the stake. Her actions shouldn't be tolerated, next thing you know she'll be skinny dipping in the Sea of Galilee.
So what were you referring to with the highlighted text above? You better watch where you throw those those stones, your glass house might be in the way. :Smiley122

The administrators will probably be more wise about picking their battles in the future.

I have zero faith that this is the case. What evidence is there suggesting that these simpletons might be "wise" or "pick battles?"

She probably shouldn't have. But the school's response sort of seems like giving someone the death penalty for committing jay walking.

Hate to butt in . . . (can we say butt in here? or is b-o-o-t-y more acceptable to the general pubic?)
Yet (despite my rhetorical objection to faux-semantics, the laws of punctuation/style and whatnot) I think that the right-and left!-thinking Denizens of Prague need to seriously consider a Zero-Tolerance Policy on electing knee-jerkoff morons or moron imitators to the School Board or School Paddle or whatever . . .

Edited to Add: Cool on the "Obama Connection" Dudever. . . [WTF??????!!!!]
This goes a long way in explaining the current political realities of Mindless Democracy In SouthCentralMidNorth America.
(btw: i object, strenuously, to the flagrant use of the pre-fab yellow and red fancy devil emoticon, above =)

After all . . .
There is Prague
http://www.toimg.net/managed/images/10021446/w482/h298/image.jpg

and there is the shadow of what Prague could be . . .
http://kwtv.images.worldnow.com/images/15968862_BG1.jpg