Maybe its the (somewhat) older-timer in me emerging, at least as much as being (almost) 48 can allow you to rate as an (almost) older-timer. But I'm getting cranky with the seemingly increasing consumer acceptance and impotence about what seems to be a relatively short lifespan of newer, high-end electronics....TV's, computers, laptops, etc.

Although the notion applies broadly, I'm thinking more specifically about presumably higher-end TV's now versus, oh, 20 years ago. When I became a free-spending single guy, one of my first paychecks went to a high-end Panasonic PRISM-line color television. I special ordered it from the old Sight-n-Sound store in 1988, and paid $900 for it. It was an awesome television.

That television lasted eighteen years. It worked flawlessly until the day it died, and the day it died I knew I wouldn't be able to get it repaired, if for no other reason than the labor cost even if I could find parts.

So, that week in 2006, I took a step into HDTV, and plunked down $700 for a 32" HD set....and it died two months ago...just shy of six years. And the general expectation is, oh, six years, that's all you should expect seems the conventional wisdom. And everyone just accepts it.

I don't.

I understand that the fundamental technology in an old TV versus a new TV is different. I understand that a contemporary TV is essentially a computer motherboard hooked into a digital TV/signal processor, shoveling out data to some variety of panel. So, in that vein, I understand its sort of an apples to oranges to comparison. But not entirely. Something has to be said for longevity of that "current, better" technology in light of what it replaced.

Virtually every major flat-panel company these days doesn't even offer much hope of being able to repair sets much more than three years old, making parts almost impossible to find, and true diagnosticians impossible to train. Extract $700, $1,500, $2,500 +++ from the consumer, let it run a couple of years, and when it dies, do it all again. Lather, rinse, repeat. Seems to me the consumer is hanging on the end of a rope, and the general notion is that you should be kissing the manufacturer's feet to get 12 months of decent operation out of a TV, even though we all know their internal analysis shows MTBF and MTTF statistics that indicate probable life spans greatly beyond that warranty year. It used to be that service contracts were the loathesome ripoff of the age, but now, places like SquareTrade that sell $150 contracts for four or five years additional "protection" over some of these *very* expensive things are all-but becoming a necessity - even if they don't repair something, they give you at least some measure of compensation if it dies.

I look at someone like my mom, who purchased a seemingly good-name HD set from a good-name company, only to find it crater about six years after she bought it. She's no early adopter. She's retired on a fixed income, but TV is her entertainment. And she's not at all part of this "disposable everything" crowd who buys into "you should be thankful it lasted as long as it did."

I could go on, but you get the point. Laptops are about the same - you get three years out of one, and that's about considered average. Four years is pushing the envelope. I had a laptop that was, essentially, babied its entire life - rarely left the house, was never dropped, never abused....and it died after three years. And it was, of course, too expensive to fix.

So what do you guys think? How long should a $1,500-$2,000 TV last? A year? Five? Ten? What's reasonable? And what power or protection should consumers have against the manufacturers who are perfectly willing to let customers die on the fine on day 366?

Mind you, I'm no "bring in the gummint controls" guy. Most anyone who has read my posts here knows that all too well. But it seems to me that consumers, in general, are getting a decidedly raw end of the deal when it comes to medium to high-end electronics, their lack of durability, and the price tag that goes along with them. Is the only solution to just suck it up, and pay the four-figure tag every five or six years? Or does some different kind of pressure need to be brought to bear on the industry to force them to be more responsive to consumer complaints of poor performance?

Whaddaya think??

I think TVs are like computers. For the same reason I don't want to be using a 10 yr old computer because of the features & speed improvements that have come about, I also don't want to be spending 20 to 30% of my free time in front of a 10 yr old television. The improvements & enhancements that have evolved make the choice to upgrade every 4-5 years worth the expense to me. The smart thing to do is not to buy the top of the line anything electronic. Buy the 2nd or 3rd latest featured model and you'll pay half the price and then be able to justify upgrading quicker.

I think TVs are like computers. For the same reason I don't want to be using a 10 yr old computer because of the features & speed improvements that have come about, I also don't want to be spending 20 to 30% of my free time in front of a 10 yr old television. The improvements & enhancements that have evolved make the choice to upgrade every 4-5 years worth the expense to me. The smart thing to do is not to buy the top of the line anything electronic. Buy the 2nd or 3rd latest featured model and you'll pay half the price and then be able to justify upgrading quicker.

Ten year should be a reasonable baseline for working, if you want to cycle your main TV more often then the older one could be moved somewhere else in the house used less often. Most content will not make as dramatic a shift every 4-5 years, TV stations still do not broadcast at 1080p, you are at max getting 1080i or 720p and while cable may be able to make the next jump in resolutions to 2160p easily, anything higher will certainly require cable companies to majorly rework their content delivery system or cut down the number of channels.

Not all flat panels are the same. Was yours a plasma?

I've never owned a TV for 10years, so I guess that would be the reason for me not having expectations of one lasting that long or longer.

Considering I can buy a new TV these days for $300, I don't set my expectations that high to begin with.

I will say I no longer buy refrigerators with ice makers, water in the door or computer screens/readouts. My relatives have a 30+ year old refrigerator in their garage that works like a champ. I've never had one last more than 4-5 years without needing major repairs. Our last one was a Whirlpool Gold and the ice maker went out, the water stopped working (it also requires expensive filters) and the lights in the readout went out. Our next frig will be modern looking, but without all the modern gadgets that seem to break.

As for computers, I never keep one longer than 3 years. Well, I may keep it, but I'm not using it any longer.

Not all flat panels are the same. Was yours a plasma?

In my case, it was an LCD panel, but it was the power board that failed...more broadly, however, my general discussion is aimed at the broader industry. I've heard plenty of folks with what I see as premature failures across the spectrum of manufacturers, Samsung, Vizio, Sony, (and those are essentially names that just floated to the top of my head). A few stories from friends come to mind....high-end Sony plasma, eighteen months, crawling green pixels, out-of-luck; Samsung LCD, six months, power board failed, no spares available (at least that was in warranty)...and so it goes.

Most anyone in a technically influenced field learns fairly quickly that if electronics live past a (very) short-term window of infant mortality, they are likely to live at or well beyond their expected lifespan. And that's what made things like service contracts such a bad investment for the consumer and exceedingly profitable for the retail outlets that sold them. But now it seems that if you don't buy some sort of extra protection, it's a dice roll, and if you don't come up boxcars, you're going to throw a decent chunk of money out the window with little to no recourse. That sure seems to me to represents two ends of a spectrum, and what's "right" should fall somewhere in the middle.

I'm surely not expecting things to last forever. But I think a compromise that protects the consumer at least some is in order. Almost reminds me of the days back when I was a teenager and US-made cars endured a generation of manufacturing defects and design flaws that nearly ruined the reliability and trust of the auto industry back in the day...



I think TVs are like computers. For the same reason I don't want to be using a 10 yr old computer because of the features & speed improvements that have come about, I also don't want to be spending 20 to 30% of my free time in front of a 10 yr old television. The improvements & enhancements that have evolved make the choice to upgrade every 4-5 years worth the expense to me. The smart thing to do is not to buy the top of the line anything electronic. Buy the 2nd or 3rd latest featured model and you'll pay half the price and then be able to justify upgrading quicker.

While I understand your point, if we shifted that to the perspective of an average TV watcher who just wants to enjoy their favorite show, or football game, or what have you, is the difference in quality over that ten-year span truly a measurable one, or is it one influenced by advertising? For example, I know that most of the sales info about 60hz vs 120hz vs 240hz is marketing hype, and really only comes into legitimate play when it can be used to eliminate 3:2 pulldown on movies filmed at 24fps. But the average person doesn't really care about that stuff. A/V junkies like you or me do, and that's fine, but most folk's real needs/wants are a lot simpler - they just want to fix a bowl of popcorn, turn on the TV, and watch a movie. I could surely be wrong, but I don't think most folks really even think about "oh, my TV is 10 years old and I'm suffering because it doesn't do proper hyperlinear spectral bit squashing like Bob's does.." Surely the TV folks want to sell that, but ultimately the general consumer just wants their TV to work.

I think I lean toward Snowman's notion of a ten-year baseline. Perhaps there's a chance that manufacturers could be persuaded to adopt a pro-rated warranty similar to car batteries; eg after 12 months of 100% warranty coverage, offer a percentage coverage based on Y total months of service. Say, for the sake of argument, we use 10 years as a baseline, a theoretical three-year-old TV would be entitled to 84/120 coverage (ten years, 120 mos, less 3 years, 36 months). Yeah, the manufacturers would gripe, and it probably would increase costs some, but considering right now that a lot of folks are just being expected to shell out hundreds of dollars on a very short interval if their TV's die, the consumer would stand to benefit.

I've never owned a TV for 10years, so I guess that would be the reason for me not having expectations of one lasting that long or longer.

Considering I can buy a new TV these days for $300, I don't set my expectations that high to begin with.


The very first TV I owned as a kid, one I bought with saved up money, lasted from 1979 until it was accidentally knocked off a table during a move 20 years later. The console TV's I grew up with lasted 20+ years. But your point is very well taken. The 24" bedroom sets that can be had for $200-$300 are hard to justify repairing, but man, not everyone can shell out that of money, even if you and I don't think its a lot. I do think the greater focus of my post here is aimed at the higher-dollar, larger screens that tend to serve in a living room and represent a long-term home fixture.



I will say I will not buy a refrigerator with an ice maker, water in the door or computer screens/readouts. My relatives have a 30+ year old refrigerator in their garage that works like a champ. I've never had one last more than 4-5 years without needing major repairs. Our last one was a Whirlpool Gold and the ice maker went out, the water stopped working (it also requires expensive filters) and the lights in the readout went out. Our next frig will be modern looking, but without all the modern gadgets that seem to break.

I'm with you 100% on refrigerators - my current unit has been chugging along happily for 21 years, and my mom's has been going for 45 years! And no more ice makers for me!



As for computers, I never keep one longer than 3 years. Well, I may keep it, but I'm not using it any longer.

The computer issue, which is near and dear to my heart, I think is a horrendous issue of marketing versus reality. The notion is to try and make people believe that three years is a long time, and that you're "behind" if you don't get the latest, greatest CPU...but right now, given the complexity and power of most CPUs these days....chasing CPU cycles and higher-end framerates for average tasks and web browsing is one of the most misguided market realities around....but that's a different thread entirely (although dying laptops is very germaine to the thread...LOL)

I inherited a pair of Maytag from my parents, the same ones they had in the early 70's, and they both finally gave out last year. So I got a new set of Maytags and my kids will probably inherit them when I'm gone. Ooops washer and dryer was what I was talking about.

We live in a largely throw away society now...easier/cheaper to just get a new one than to get one repaired...most items are designed to last just about as long as the warranty period any more..have to keep the economy going and folks buying stuff all the time...

At least people are now spared the boredom of the trip to the nearest vaccuum tube testing facility (proto-7-Eleven) with one's dad while he goes through the cigar box of those spooky glass deals with prongs trying to see which one isn't working. (on his day off . . . so we had the proper distribution of black and white)

Glad you clarified "Maytag", RH . . . For a moment I thought you were referring to that upscale Blue Cheese.

We live in a largely throw away society now...easier/cheaper to just get a new one than to get one repaired...most items are designed to last just about as long as the warranty period any more..have to keep the economy going and folks buying stuff all the time...

Yep. Its the price you pay for having a steady stream of cheapo "made in China" crap. Who cares if nothing lasts, as long as its cheap for the masses at Wal Martz!

I made the mistake of buying on of those cheap Best Buy brand TV's about 3 1/2 years a go. It already has a giant discoloring blob in the middle of it that distorts bright colors. I will probably be buying a new one before the year is out.

I also had a laptop (also a cheap model from Best Buy) that lasted a whopping 18 months before just crapping out right when my warranty expired. In the time I had it the hard drive went out twice and the CPU failed.

Most of the electronics I've bought outside of HDTV's lately have been crap. As of this weekend, my Sony DVR, purchased just three or four years ago and rarely used, went kaput. I spent over $200 on it.

I also had an appliance visit on my months old stainless steel KitchenAid dishwasher. It turned out to be OK but the repair folks said hardly anything people buy that was produced within the last five years is worth a crap.

Maybe its the (somewhat) older-timer in me emerging, at least as much as being (almost) 48 can allow you to rate as an (almost) older-timer. But I'm getting cranky with the seemingly increasing consumer acceptance and impotence about what seems to be a relatively short lifespan of newer, high-end electronics....TV's, computers, laptops, etc.

Although the notion applies broadly, I'm thinking more specifically about presumably higher-end TV's now versus, oh, 20 years ago. When I became a free-spending single guy, one of my first paychecks went to a high-end Panasonic PRISM-line color television. I special ordered it from the old Sight-n-Sound store in 1988, and paid $900 for it. It was an awesome television.

That television lasted eighteen years. It worked flawlessly until the day it died, and the day it died I knew I wouldn't be able to get it repaired, if for no other reason than the labor cost even if I could find parts.

So, that week in 2006, I took a step into HDTV, and plunked down $700 for a 32" HD set....and it died two months ago...just shy of six years. And the general expectation is, oh, six years, that's all you should expect seems the conventional wisdom. And everyone just accepts it.

I don't.

I understand that the fundamental technology in an old TV versus a new TV is different. I understand that a contemporary TV is essentially a computer motherboard hooked into a digital TV/signal processor, shoveling out data to some variety of panel. So, in that vein, I understand its sort of an apples to oranges to comparison. But not entirely. Something has to be said for longevity of that "current, better" technology in light of what it replaced.

Virtually every major flat-panel company these days doesn't even offer much hope of being able to repair sets much more than three years old, making parts almost impossible to find, and true diagnosticians impossible to train. Extract $700, $1,500, $2,500 +++ from the consumer, let it run a couple of years, and when it dies, do it all again. Lather, rinse, repeat. Seems to me the consumer is hanging on the end of a rope, and the general notion is that you should be kissing the manufacturer's feet to get 12 months of decent operation out of a TV, even though we all know their internal analysis shows MTBF and MTTF statistics that indicate probable life spans greatly beyond that warranty year. It used to be that service contracts were the loathesome ripoff of the age, but now, places like SquareTrade that sell $150 contracts for four or five years additional "protection" over some of these *very* expensive things are all-but becoming a necessity - even if they don't repair something, they give you at least some measure of compensation if it dies.

I look at someone like my mom, who purchased a seemingly good-name HD set from a good-name company, only to find it crater about six years after she bought it. She's no early adopter. She's retired on a fixed income, but TV is her entertainment. And she's not at all part of this "disposable everything" crowd who buys into "you should be thankful it lasted as long as it did."

I could go on, but you get the point. Laptops are about the same - you get three years out of one, and that's about considered average. Four years is pushing the envelope. I had a laptop that was, essentially, babied its entire life - rarely left the house, was never dropped, never abused....and it died after three years. And it was, of course, too expensive to fix.

So what do you guys think? How long should a $1,500-$2,000 TV last? A year? Five? Ten? What's reasonable? And what power or protection should consumers have against the manufacturers who are perfectly willing to let customers die on the fine on day 366?

Mind you, I'm no "bring in the gummint controls" guy. Most anyone who has read my posts here knows that all too well. But it seems to me that consumers, in general, are getting a decidedly raw end of the deal when it comes to medium to high-end electronics, their lack of durability, and the price tag that goes along with them. Is the only solution to just suck it up, and pay the four-figure tag every five or six years? Or does some different kind of pressure need to be brought to bear on the industry to force them to be more responsive to consumer complaints of poor performance?

Whaddaya think??

I would like to add that my Apple laptop has passed the five-year threshold and is functioning like the day I got it (despite spilling a refreshing cold beverage onto the keyboard!).

I still love the convenience of the ice maker in my GE fridge, even though it broke down after 7 years. The big screw thing in the ice box broke, meaning ice wouldn't come out of the freezer door any more. I simply replaced the whole ice box by sliding the old one out and sliding the new one in. It cost around $130,

I would like to add that my Apple laptop has passed the five-year threshold and is functioning like the day I got it (despite spilling a refreshing cold beverage onto the keyboard!).

Great for you. A used Dell laptop I bought off of Ebay went dead in about a year.

We live in a largely throw away society now...easier/cheaper to just get a new one than to get one repaired...most items are designed to last just about as long as the warranty period any more..have to keep the economy going and folks buying stuff all the time...

A lot of warranties are set by statistics of the failure rates so they rarely have to be paid, granted some are better at predicting them and have narrower deviations of when failure will occur

"So, that week in 2006, I took a step into HDTV, and plunked down $700 for a 32" HD set....and it died two months ago...just shy of six years."

So what did u do? replace with the newest, fastest, and shiniest?

For me, I tend to put off and purchases of the "new" electronic this or that. It seems the prices keep coming down and the quality improves.

On another note, I hear all this chatter about the new Apple IPhone 5 coming out soon, maybe for the xmas shopping season. I don't have a "smartphone", but could someone who has a current version tell me why u would upgrade from a Iphone 2/3/4 to a newer one? I was talking to my sister and she said if she signs a new 2 year contract with her phone company they give her one of the newest XYZ phone, it made me wonder if that is who is actually upgrading everytime one of the new iterations of phones arrives.

maybe one day i'll get one of those

On another note, I hear all this chatter about the new Apple IPhone 5 coming out soon, maybe for the xmas shopping season. I don't have a "smartphone", but could someone who has a current version tell me why u would upgrade from a Iphone 2/3/4 to a newer one? I was talking to my sister and she said if she signs a new 2 year contract with her phone company they give her one of the newest XYZ phone, it made me wonder if that is who is actually upgrading everytime one of the new iterations of phones arrives.

Most people do it every other year due contracts expiring and the new subsidy available of signing a new contract once the old one expires. Smart phones with data plans are somewhat different than TV's or major appliances in that the phone hardware is often less than 5% of the service cost over the contract period and is heavily subsidized sometimes down to 1% or less to get a new one which due the normal electronic component improvements have been between two to four times more capable in most areas (except batteries) when the contract expires.

I still love the convenience of the ice maker in my GE fridge, even though it broke down after 7 years. The big screw thing in the ice box broke, meaning ice wouldn't come out of the freezer door any more. I simply replaced the whole ice box by sliding the old one out and sliding the new one in. It cost around $130,

We bought a Whirlpool fridge when we bought our house in Dec. 2005. It is stainless but traditional with the freezer on the top. It contains an icemaker that still works like a champ.

When the aforementioned appliance repair folks came by they noticed our fridge (which is not a showstopper), and commented how well-made that particular model is / was. According to them, buying fridges these days is fraught with risk and disappointment.

"So, that week in 2006, I took a step into HDTV, and plunked down $700 for a 32" HD set....and it died two months ago...just shy of six years."

So what did u do? replace with the newest, fastest, and shiniest?

For me, I tend to put off and purchases of the "new" electronic this or that. It seems the prices keep coming down and the quality improves.

On another note, I hear all this chatter about the new Apple IPhone 5 coming out soon, maybe for the xmas shopping season. I don't have a "smartphone", but could someone who has a current version tell me why u would upgrade from a Iphone 2/3/4 to a newer one? I was talking to my sister and she said if she signs a new 2 year contract with her phone company they give her one of the newest XYZ phone, it made me wonder if that is who is actually upgrading everytime one of the new iterations of phones arrives.

maybe one day i'll get one of those

newer faster better screen resolution better camera

When I buy appliances I basically hope that they'll last 'forever'...which would equate to about 25 years lol.

For electronics it's a whole different matter though. I fully expect to get a new phone every 2 years, so as long as my current one lasts that long I'm good with it. Computers I tend to replace every 4 to 5 years. Televisions, every 8 years or so.

"So, that week in 2006, I took a step into HDTV, and plunked down $700 for a 32" HD set....and it died two months ago...just shy of six years."

So what did u do? replace with the newest, fastest, and shiniest?


Nope. This was a bedroom TV, so there's no need for much more than the ability to display a decent picture, and have a place for me to plug in a DVD or BluRay player. Extra Cool Features are for the living room TV.

Remember reading a couple of years ago that it really made little difference if you buy the name brand product or "cheap" store brand, as in many cases both are made in the same factory, and the number of factories are limited too, they just put a different name plate on the front. I noticed it to be the case on a tv once. The one i had at home was name brand X and the one at the store was name brand Y. Distinctive cabinets and the different companies were not related to each other. try to put off just about anything electronic (tv, computer etc) because as soon as you do, someone will have a bigger/better/faster cheaper one before the ink has dried on your receipt. Once I make a purchase, avoid going into the stores, looking at sale ads etc for weeks or months.

One thing to notice about a stores price matching guarantee is that it often has to be for the same make/model. Most of the big box stores get around this because the one they sell has a slightly different model number (same features) than the competitor (ie:

PAN-1234XYZ-W = Walmart
PAN-1234XYZ-T = Target
PAN-1234XYZ-S = Sears
PAN-1234XYZ-B = Best Buy

Like one poster said they paid $700 for a 32" and it died 5+ yrs later. How much is an equivalent 32" now? Think you can get 32" for well under $300 now. Or looking at it another way, what could you get for that same $700 today, a 42" or 50"?

oh, this gets me thinking... i've had my appliances for:
fridge 18 yrs
microwave 26 yrs
washer 24 yrs
dryer 22 yrs

I guess one of the things I've read recently that's driving at least part of this discussion is folks owning (as an example) some Vizio and Samsung sets are being told that their sets out of warranty are not repairable at ANY cost, because they have no spare parts for them! They don't make them anymore. So, for the consumer who says "okay, I'm past my warranty, but I'll gladly pay $500 or maybe even $1,000 to have my 366-day-old, $3000 TV fixed," they don't even have that option. That's where things start getting a little ridiculous IMHO.

I've read that some manufacturers, notably Mitsubishi and Panasonic, have tried to work situations like this by offering customers substantial discounts on new TV's to replace their irreparable units, and Panasonic has actually come out to state that they "want to keep customers in our brand," which is hopeful that at least some players in the industry are starting to sense the emerging scope of this problem.

Almost makes me wonder if people are going to start leasing this high-end equipment to get out of the repair cost mousetrap. Sure seems to me something has to give.

$700 for a 32 inch 6 years ago...Target has what is probably comparable on sale right now for ...might even see them for around $200 by Black Friday
$229.99 online price
reg:$269.99- save $40.00 (15%)
Magnavox 32" Class 720p 60Hz

A lot of these problems are "simple" fixes like blown compacitors. You see many techs skilled at using a a soldering iron anymore or they just don't feel like learning how to do it because the demand isn't there because replacements are cheaper and easier.

I got sick of running through Windows computers, now it's only Apple products. I'm not one of those Windows haters, but I just love the craftsmanship of my Mac and iPad. My Vizio TV has lasted 3 years, my Philips is new and I like it a lot, but who knows? I remember the days of old console TVs and miss the simplicity of on and off knobs and a channel dial. In the name of progress these new HDTVs have so many settings it's ridiculous.

Www.dealnews.com. This place reports sales on all sorts of items. You can get GREAT deals on HDTVs right now. I wouldn't even wait for black friday honestly. The deals aren't as good as everyone thinks. There is another place, www.shopjimmy.com thats sells replacement parts for HDTVs. They would know which brands are the most reliable, as they have to fix them often, and see many different brands come and go I am sure. May be worth shooting them a quick email.