View Full Version : They're such sweet dogs



Pages : 1 [2] 3

td25er
09-26-2012, 12:30 PM
I have no problem with the breed, as long as we will prosecute owners directly for their actions (much like a gun ownership). If your dog kills someone, it's manslaughter (at the least) for the owners. If they attack someone, it's assault with a deadly weapon.

Don't like it, then be a better owner.

I'm willing to extend this to all dog breeds (rather than picking on one).

What if the dog is being kicked and retaliates? I'm sorry, but if a kid (who knows better) starts kicking a dog then they deserve to be bitten/killed by the dog.

HewenttoJared
09-26-2012, 12:50 PM
What if the dog is being kicked and retaliates? I'm sorry, but if a kid (who knows better) starts kicking a dog then they deserve to be bitten/killed by the dog.

I've known quite a few kids who kicked a dog. A lot of the turned out to be good people. Did they really deserve to die? A well-trained dog isn't going to bite someone because it got kicked. Someone who kicks a dog has undoubtedly done a terrible thing, but death? Come on now...

If someone kicked my dog he would probably cry and go hide between someone else's legs. That's because he knows how to behave around people.

td25er
09-26-2012, 01:43 PM
I've known quite a few kids who kicked a dog. A lot of the turned out to be good people. Did they really deserve to die? A well-trained dog isn't going to bite someone because it got kicked. Someone who kicks a dog has undoubtedly done a terrible thing, but death? Come on now...

If someone kicked my dog he would probably cry and go hide between someone else's legs. That's because he knows how to behave around people.

Anybody who kills or harms an innocent animal for fun deserves to die. Every time I hear about a hunting accident I smile.

td25er
09-26-2012, 01:45 PM
Maybe instead of worrying about dogs, we can start putting the parents of obese kids in jail. That would stop some of them from shoving processed crap down the throats of their kids and MAYBE give them a veggie now and then.

HewenttoJared
09-26-2012, 03:19 PM
Anybody who kills or harms an innocent animal for fun deserves to die. Every time I hear about a hunting accident I smile.

I don't hunt. I don't care for killing. But hunters keep a hell of a lot of deer and other animals from starving and dying slowly all over the country. As far as every kid who is mean to an animal deserving to die... That's not a view that very many reasonable adults are going to take.

wallbreaker
09-26-2012, 03:46 PM
td25er, there's not even enough intelligence to your posts to bother a discussion.

To the rational folks - there's a responsibility that ownership applies to everything, from guns, to cars, to dogs. If you kill someone with a car, there are consequences, especially if it's due to negligence. If I leave a loaded gun lying on the sidewalk and a neighbor kid picks it up and shoots himself or someone else with it, I'm responsible. If I leave a dog unattended (especially a dog with the capability of killing someone) where some kid can get to it and kick it, then I have the responsibility. It's not legal to let dogs run free in most areas, nor should you tied them up in the front yard. So where are they getting beaten?

Unless that kid broke into my house, or into my back yard. And as with guns, if the kid was doing something illegal when he got killed, that would be called mitigating circumstances.

Oh, and I'm sure that 3-month old baby was abusing the crap out of the dog.

Dubya61
09-26-2012, 03:56 PM
Oddly, the history of the pit bull is that of a nanny dog. Mom and Dad could go out and work in the field and leave the dog to guard the kids from predators. We've certainly progressed from THAT!

wallbreaker
09-26-2012, 03:59 PM
I owned an Akita for 10 years. Got it to protect my wife and my newborn son when I wasn't around. Great, loving, sweet dog, but trust me, I had to deal with the reputation too. Even had trouble finding a vet that would see the dog.

That being said, I was a responsible owner.

OKCTalker
09-26-2012, 04:55 PM
The number of dog breeds is almost endless. So when a buyer is looking for the "right" dog for him, he starts ruling things in and out.

A deal-breaker for me is if the breed has a history of agression. I don't care why - I care yes or no. Current owners aren't objective - they love their dog, and that breed, and they'll argue otherwise (this thread is an excellent case in point). If the breed has a reputation for doing __, then I should expect that the individual dog I get is likely to do __, and I shouldn't be surprised. Yorkies bark, Shnauzers nip, Jack Russell Terriers dig and tear things apart, German Shorthaired Pointers run and run and run and run. We know all of these things about the breeds. Buying one of these breeds and hoping they'll not do what they're known to do is like marrying someone with problems, but you know you can get them to change.

One other thing: I've had Golden Retrievers, and there's nothing like watching people interact when they see them. Little kids run to hug, and their moms let them. Then you hear the stories - "We had one of those when I was a kid," or "The hardest day of my life was two years ago when we lost __." Everyone smiles. You don't get that around pit bulls, German Shepherds, Dobermans or Rottweilers.

Roadhawg
09-26-2012, 05:25 PM
I have a different opinion. I've had Shepherds and currently have a Pit that I rescued, as well as two other dogs. I've never had a problem with any of them. Granted if you came into my house and was doing harm to me then you're on your own. I have several friends that knock and walk on it, the dogs will run up to see who it is and if they know them all is good. My Pit has been around kids and babies and the worst he's done is roll over on his back so they can scratch him. When they are in the back yard he sits out there and watches over them. My ex had a couple dogs that were mean little suckers and would bite you. They were a Chihuahua and a Dachshund.

Roadhawg
09-26-2012, 07:13 PM
I love all dogs, except for the ex's Chihuahua and Dachshund. Vicious little critters

Fantastic
09-27-2012, 02:37 AM
I love all dogs, except for the ex's Chihuahua and Dachshund. Vicious little critters

:LolLolLol

OKCTalker
09-27-2012, 10:17 AM
Pit bull terrier attacks, kills 60-year-old woman in Oklahoma City
A woman died after a pit bull terrier broke out of its cage and attacked her, police said. An officer shot the dog when it continued its attack.

FROM STAFF REPORTS | Published: September 27, 2012

A pit bull terrier attacked and killed a 60-year-old woman in Oklahoma City, police report.

The attack happened about 11:30 p.m. Wednesday at The Highland Apartments, 12700 N Pennsylvania Ave., police said.

The victim has been identified as Nellie Davis, police said.

A young woman returned home and found one of two large pit bull terriers had broken out of its crate, attacked and killed her grandmother, according to a statement from police.

An officer shot the dog when it couldn't be contained. The woman's death and the shooting of the dog are under investigation, police said.

Read more: Pit bull terrier attacks, kills 60-year-old woman in Oklahoma City | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/pit-bull-terrier-attacks-kills-60-year-old-woman-in-oklahoma-city/article/3713509#ixzz27gQnNbrR)

wallbreaker
09-27-2012, 10:22 AM
I remember that time a poodle broke out of its crate and killed it's owner. Oh wait, that's never happened in the history of the world!

td25er
09-27-2012, 10:32 AM
td25er, there's not even enough intelligence to your posts to bother a discussion.

To the rational folks - there's a responsibility that ownership applies to everything, from guns, to cars, to dogs. If you kill someone with a car, there are consequences, especially if it's due to negligence. If I leave a loaded gun lying on the sidewalk and a neighbor kid picks it up and shoots himself or someone else with it, I'm responsible. If I leave a dog unattended (especially a dog with the capability of killing someone) where some kid can get to it and kick it, then I have the responsibility. It's not legal to let dogs run free in most areas, nor should you tied them up in the front yard. So where are they getting beaten?

Unless that kid broke into my house, or into my back yard. And as with guns, if the kid was doing something illegal when he got killed, that would be called mitigating circumstances.

Oh, and I'm sure that 3-month old baby was abusing the crap out of the dog.

Fair enough. Continue supporting killing animals for sport and praising parents for making their kids fat. Go on...

Blaming owners because their dogs RETALIATED to someone. Whatever. In SOME cases that's true. To say that every "trained" dog would NEVER bite somebody who is harming them is plain stupid. Meanwhile, lets turn a blind eye for obese parents making their kids obese. Double standard.

wallbreaker
09-27-2012, 10:47 AM
Fair enough. Continue supporting killing animals for sport and praising parents for making their kids fat. Go on...

Blaming owners because their dogs RETALIATED to someone. Whatever. In SOME cases that's true. To say that every "trained" dog would NEVER bite somebody who is harming them is plain stupid. Meanwhile, lets turn a blind eye for obese parents making their kids obese. Double standard.

Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man)

You need this, since you can't seem to discuss this with any intelligence. I'm not in a discussion about hunting or fat kids. Start a thread for those if you want.

When you actually want to focus on this issue, we'll be here. Otherwise... buh bye!

Dubya61
09-27-2012, 10:54 AM
In every single sample, the size we are talking about, you are going to have TONS of situations just like this. It would be absurd to say that all Pit Bulls are violent animals. What isn't absurd is that the data, already shown above extensively, shows that there is a trend of issues with a few breeds.

If that data is based on Cletus, the slack-jawed-yokel who works for the pound, calling a mutt with cropped ears and a wide smile a pit bull, then I don't think the data was accurately collected. When the harried law enforcement agent is filling out his report and trying to say what bit the child, I doubt he's going to be able to accurately say what breed it was -- and consequently may throw off the data set's accuracy. Even veterinarians have a hard time accurately stating breed unless they're active in any kennel clubs that train or judge the standards. They may not choose to tell their paying customer that their pet's breed isn't what they think it is or they may have tried and the customer just doesn't want to hear it. Even THEN, you're often dealing with mixed breeds that may or may not accurately reflect their lineage under visual observation. I understand that certain breeds have a reputation, and a responsible pet owner will watch for any negative behaviour that may be attributed to the pet's breed. I just wouldn't be so fast to say that ANY data shown above or alluded to elsewhere has any factual base.

Roadhawg
09-27-2012, 10:57 AM
I hate to hear that happened and my thoughts and prayers are with the family. I don't know what the owners were like or how they trained their dogs. It's a sad case and I think another example of bad owners and poor training.

td25er... if you want to talk about parents of obese kids or anti-hunting start another thread.

Dubya61
09-27-2012, 12:01 PM
Isn't that just one big cop-out? The police, the veterinarians, the doctors, and the owners just don't know what breed of dog it is.

In the vast majority of serious attacks or killings the owners are known. I'd accept your position if the opposite was true and stray animals were killing kids primarily, but that isn't the case. In fact, in most situations, the accident occurs on the property where the animal lives.

Police, fire and EMSA personnel are going to ask the owner what breed of animal it is. I know I did when dealing with dog bites. Guessing would be a silly thing to do and doesn't make for good times in the courtroom.

I understand your point. I assume you're saying that in the vast majority of serious attacks or killings the BREED is known. I disagree. See Roadhawg's interactive breed-guessing game. Further, I know many owners who say their dog is such and such a breed, but you look at the dog and it has little to know characteristics of that breed. I have a friend who swears she has a dalmation-mix, but her vet and my wife say it's more beagle than dalmation. Since they're friends (Shannon and my wife), my wife told her, but without a DNA test or accurate papers, it's not possible to be certain, and rarely worth it to argue. And don't get me started on the honesty of breeders -- if I had my way, they'd be out of business (ESPECIALLY those who have "fighting" dogs as their niche). Cletus (a collective stereotyped vet client) will tell you (my wife, in this case) that his dog is half-wolf because it makes him feel better and he doesn't have enough money to buy a corvette to make up for a small reproductive organ. My wife says that in her 30-some years of assisting vets, she's only seen two animals that might actually have some wolf DNA in them, and the owners were smart enough to say that it was a German Shepherd - Collie mix. It's rarely worth the time (or potential loss of a client) to argue breeding without a test. When you're filling out the report and you ask the owner what breed of dog they've got, do you question their judgement? Ask to see the papers? What purpose does ascertaining the breed of dog do anyway? Assist to ID the dog for later disposal? Then it's good enough to say "brown pit bull." I suppose. If, on the other hand you're collecting data to be used in drafting Breed Specific Legislation that bans a particular breed because it is surmised that a particular breed of dog is more dangerous than another, it's not sufficient to rely on Cletus to tell you that his prize fighting dog is a pit bull. If you're collecting scientific data, it's not enough to assume that Cletus' best pit bull guard dog is really a boxer that he failed to train properly. If you want to generate scientific data, you're gonna have to do better than asking Cletus. And as far as having a better time in court making sure that the correct dog is put down, you had better confiscate the dog in the first place or get a nose print.

I just hate prejudice in any form, and would tell you (Sid or dear reader) targeting a specific breed as a bad breed based on the "data" is just that: prejudice. I fully contend that the prejudice against a particular breed of dog has NO factual basis -- just anecdotal basis.

td25er
09-27-2012, 01:02 PM
I have no problem with the breed, as long as we will prosecute owners directly for their actions (much like a gun ownership). If your dog kills someone, it's manslaughter (at the least) for the owners. If they attack someone, it's assault with a deadly weapon.

Don't like it, then be a better owner.

I'm willing to extend this to all dog breeds (rather than picking on one).

Let's not stop there. If somebody dies from a black widow bite that happens at your house, then that's manslaughter. If softball size hail injures somebody at your backyard BBQ, you are definitely negligent, right?

THEY ARE ANIMALS. No matter how well trained they are, they are UNPREDICTABLE. They have natural instincts (chase, DEFENDING ITSELF AND ITS OWNERS, killing small animals like rodents) that you can't reasonably blame on owners.

wallbreaker
09-27-2012, 01:05 PM
Let's not stop there. If somebody dies from a black widow bite that happens at your house, then that's manslaughter. If softball size hail injures somebody at your backyard BBQ, you are definitely negligent, right?

THEY ARE ANIMALS. No matter how well trained they are, they are UNPREDICTABLE. They have natural instincts (chase, for example) that you can't reasonably blame on owners.


If they're that dangerous, then they shouldn't be brought around communities.

And yeah, if you keep black widow spiders as pets, and they get loose and kill someone, you would be liable.

But these stupid examples and arguements... you skipping school kid?

soonerguru
09-27-2012, 01:31 PM
Sadly, it happened again yesterday in Oklahoma City. A 60-year-old woman was attacked and killed by a Pit Bull that escaped from its crate.

Here's the story from NewsOK.com:

Pit bull terrier attacks, kills 60-year-old woman in Oklahoma City | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/pit-bull-terrier-attacks-kills-60-year-old-woman-in-oklahoma-city/article/3713509)

According to the accompanying video, the family told officers the dog gets "agitated" during thunderstorms. It doesn't seem like OKC would be a good place to own a killer dog that rages during thunderstorms.

I can only imagine what the granddaughter was thinking when she discovered that her dog killed her grandma. Another avoidable tragedy. And I reiterate, I will never allow my daughter in a home where pit bulls reside.

adaniel
09-27-2012, 01:33 PM
Let's not stop there. If somebody dies from a black widow bite that happens at your house, then that's manslaughter. If softball size hail injures somebody at your backyard BBQ, you are definitely negligent, right?

THEY ARE ANIMALS. No matter how well trained they are, they are UNPREDICTABLE. They have natural instincts (chase, DEFENDING ITSELF AND ITS OWNERS, killing small animals like rodents) that you can't reasonably blame on owners.

Completely untrue. If they are your animals, depending on the circumstances, you are criminally responsible. They are under your care and are your property, so your babble about spiders is way off the mark. If you can't handle the responsibility of having a dog then get a goldfish.

The news is littered with cases like this:

Pit Bull Attack Elicits Murder Charge (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=96463&page=1#.UGSaQ42PX74)

Man Charged in Pit Bull Attack (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/pit-bull-richard-john-Garritson-valley-center-168687556.html)

Texas grandparents charged in fatal pit bull attack of child (http://www.kmsstv.com/news/texas-grandparents-charged-fatal-pit-bull-attack-child)

OKCTalker
09-27-2012, 01:59 PM
I belive courts have consistently held pet owners liable for harm caused by their animals, regardless of the animal's history or breed. This is one of the things typically covered by homeowner's insurance policies.

Which will be cancelled or renewed if the company learns that your dog has previously bitten someone.

HewenttoJared
09-28-2012, 08:52 AM
Let's not stop there. If somebody dies from a black widow bite that happens at your house, then that's manslaughter. If softball size hail injures somebody at your backyard BBQ, you are definitely negligent, right?

THEY ARE ANIMALS. No matter how well trained they are, they are UNPREDICTABLE. They have natural instincts (chase, DEFENDING ITSELF AND ITS OWNERS, killing small animals like rodents) that you can't reasonably blame on owners.
I believe a pit is slightly more trainable than a black widow.

Roadhawg
09-28-2012, 02:26 PM
If any of my dogs attacked somebody I'm responsible. I believe I've trained them all not to do that unless somebody breaks into my house or attacks me or the family. The one that worries me the most is my Corgi, he's become an old grouch.

Roadhawg
09-28-2012, 02:28 PM
Let's not stop there. If somebody dies from a black widow bite that happens at your house, then that's manslaughter. If softball size hail injures somebody at your backyard BBQ, you are definitely negligent, right?

Not unless you tied them to a tree during a hail storm...

CurtisJ
09-28-2012, 03:07 PM
One other thing: I've had Golden Retrievers, and there's nothing like watching people interact when they see them. Little kids run to hug, and their moms let them. Then you hear the stories - "We had one of those when I was a kid," or "The hardest day of my life was two years ago when we lost __." Everyone smiles. You don't get that around pit bulls, German Shepherds, Dobermans or Rottweilers.

Thats funny, I seem to recall more than one child hugging my mutt, and it looks alot more like a pitt than anything else. Granted I have also watched people cross the street to avoid walking past him, and I laugh to myself knowing how harmless he is. What you don't seem to get is that training and upbringing trumps genes 99.9% of the time. The only time I have seen my dog bare his teeth is when a stranger approached my Fiance way too quickly (which had my attention as well) and guess what happened? The guy took a step back and the dog went back to wagging his tail.

I have watched a chiauau latch on to my dog's neck, I have seen a small child suddenly reach up, grab his jowels and yank as hard as possible and neither provoked any more of a response than him rolling over on his back and wagging his tail. This is a 95 lb dog that most people identify as a Pitt. More likely he is some sort of mix between Boxer/Am-staff/Mastiff/Akita.

In another instance at a dog park in Tulsa I had a very large Pitt lumber over to me and lean against my leg (nearly knocking me over) as I pet him. Some lady then proceeds to read me the riot act about bringing my vicious killer dog into the dog park and telling me it should be put down. All I could say was "Lady, this isn't my dog, but he doesnt exactly strike me as a killer".

Pitt bulls and other similar breeds are not pre-dispositioned to be agressive. It is unfortunate that they tend to attract owners who abuse or neglect them. When you couple that with their powerfull physiology, I can understand some peoples apprehention regarding the breed, but don't pretend that all Pitts are a ticking time bomb. I have to agree with Wallbreaker, hold the owner responsible, not the breed.

OKCTalker
10-04-2012, 08:09 PM
Infant killed in dog attack on Detroit's west side

By Mark Hicks
The Detroit News

Detroit — A 3-week-old baby died Thursday evening after being mauled by a pit bull on the city's west side, police said.

The child's mother, 24, carried her in a car seat into a home in the 7700 block of Stahelin around 5:45 p.m.

The woman placed the car seat on the floor and walked away for a moment.

When she returned, she found a pit bull attacking her daughter.

The infant was rushed to a local hospital for emergency treatment, but she died from her injuries.

From The Detroit News: Infant killed in dog attack on Detroit's west side | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121004/METRO/210040525#ixzz28NluszEk)

Prunepicker
10-04-2012, 09:33 PM
blah blah blah.

OWNER KILLED BY PET PIT BULL

Chicago man mauled to death by his own pit bull - U.S. News (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/17/13334356-chicago-man-mauled-to-death-by-his-own-pit-bull?lite)
I can't imagine an adult not being able to kill, or at least incapacitate, an
attacking dog. C'mon, it's not that hard. Maybe it's the fear of being
bitten.

Achilleslastand
10-04-2012, 10:36 PM
In all my years of raising/owning dogs ive never heard of a dog becoming violent during a t-storm? And who would own a breed like that and keep him caged up in an apartment? Dosnt seem like the wisest thing to me.

ljbab728
10-04-2012, 11:15 PM
In all my years of raising/owning dogs ive never heard of a dog becoming violent during a t-storm? And who would own a breed like that and keep him caged up in an apartment? Dosnt seem like the wisest thing to me.

Unfortunately, being smart isn't a requirement for owning a dog.

Roadhawg
10-05-2012, 08:22 AM
Some cases in 2012... All are very sad, and often heartbreaking, cases and shows many breeds of dogs can kill. I wonder how much improper, or no training, played a part in the attacks. There are many more examples of non-pit bull dogs attacking people. There are also many examples of pit bulls attacking and killing people and they seem to make the news more often because of the breed.

John Doe, 6-years old, was mauled to death by a medical service dog that had allegedly been trained to help a Fort Campbell serviceman who suffers from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. Part of the dog's training was to wake its owner up in the event he was experiencing a nightmare. Instead, the animal brutally mauled a child to death. At the time of the attack, the young boy and his family were visiting the Fort Campbell serviceman's home. The boy was outside in the backyard with the service dog, described as a "small German shepherd," when it attacked. The dog inflicted severe facial injuries to the boy. He was helicoptered to Vanderbilt University Medical Center, but did not survive. The serviceman surrendered his service dog along with two other dogs to authorities. The service dog was quickly put down. No identities were released. As of February 18, 2012, there is no new information about this incident.

Howard Nicholson Jr., 2-days old, was severely bitten on the head by the family husky and died at Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh of UPMC. At the time of the incident, the newborn was in a bassinet on the floor and the mother had stepped away to go to the bathroom. She returned to find the newly adopted husky standing over the injured baby. The family also owned three pit bulls -- one was loose in the house and two were locked in the basement. The case took an ethereal turn after images of the husky wearing a "homemade" cast emerged; the dog reportedly broke its leg by jumping a fence or jumping out a window. The husky had also killed the family's cat prior to killing the newborn. Before the end of the dog's 10-day rabies quarantine, a Nikko-Nutter whisked the dog away to save it from euthanasia and told the media, "It's not the dog's fault."

Dylan Andres, 17-months old, was mauled to death by a neighbor's chained rottweiler. Just before the incident, the boy and his mother, Destiny Kieszler, had returned from the store to their home on Maynard Street. Destiny was unpacking groceries when Dylan got away from her and wandered next door and was attacked by the dog. Chief of Detectives Tom Hackney said the rottweiler bit the child repeatedly. Neighbor Jessica Golden, who had also gone to the store with Dylan and his mother, was inside her home when she heard Destiny's screams. She ran outside and saw Dylan's father trying to pull the child away from the dog.

Aiden McGrew, 2-months old, was killed by the family dog while his mother was away and his father was sleeping. The mother found her son after returning from a doctor's appointment with her 7-year old daughter. The other child in the household, 3-years old, was asleep with the father during the mauling. The baby was left in a "bouncy chair" by his mother before leaving to the doctor's office. Initially awake that morning, the father, Quintin McGrew, fell back asleep. The recently adopted dog, described as a golden retriever-mix, pulled the infant from the chair and severed the baby's leg during the attack. Dorchester County Coroner Chris Nesbit ruled the death a homicide and that neglect led to the boy's death by "animal eating." The father was charged with unlawful conduct toward a child, a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison. The couple's two other children were taken into protective custody after the attack.

Jeremiah Eskew-Shahan, 1-year old, was killed by his grandmother's dog after celebrating his first birthday. Following a long day of opening presents, Elizabeth Keller set the toddler down in the living room. Jeremiah crawled over to the family dog, a large mastiff-Rhodesian ridgeback mix, and grabbed the dog's fur to pull himself up, as he had done many times in the past. This time, the dog clamped its jaws around the boy's head and shook him. The grandmother tried to free the boy from the dog's jaws, but could not. The mauling continued for about 30 more seconds until the boy's father rushed downstairs and managed to free him. Jeremiah did not survive his injuries. His father, Chris Shahan, was stunned by the dog's actions and told the media, "They played with each other all the time ... they kissed each other ... they slept together." The baby's death was ruled accidental by the Clark County Coroner's office.

Ja'Marr Tiller, 2-years old, was mauled to death by two dogs after he slipped out of his house unnoticed after being put to bed. Multiple family members were in the home at the time of the mauling. His mother, Deandra Tiller, had left to run some errands. When she returned, she found her son on the ground with his clothes ripped off and wounds across his body. Paramedics transported the boy to Medical University Hospital where he was pronounced dead. Charleston County Coroner Rae Wooten said the child had bites that "were widely distributed" over his body. Two dogs, a female black lab shepherd-mix and a brindle female lab shepherd-mix, were taken into custody by authorities. Tests later implicated both dogs in the boy's death. The dogs apparently did not belong to anyone, but one of the boy's family members fed them. As of June 27, 2012, no criminal charges have been filed.

Jack Redin, 2-years old, was mauled to death by a pair of mixed-breed dogs after wandering onto a neighboring property. Pleasants County Sheriff's Deptuy Steve McFarland said that Jack and three other children had been playing in the family's yard most of the day. Jack had been riding around the yard on a four-wheeler powered by batteries when he strayed from the group. When family members realized he was missing, they began searching along adjacent properties. The boy's father made the devastating discovery within minutes. The two dogs allegedly did not belong to the adjacent property owner, David Sweeney, but to his brother Daniel. David had been "taking care of the dogs" for his brother when the attack occurred. David went as far as installing an underground invisible fence around his property for this purpose. Both David and Daniel are sons of Third Judicial Circuit Court Judge Timothy Sweeney.

Roadhawg
10-05-2012, 09:10 AM
You are once again missing the point. It isn't that other dogs don't kill. The premise held by most Americans is that pit bulls are statistically more dangerous.

You had to skip over several pit bull cases for ever one you posted here. When you compare the single husky attack vs all of the pit bull attacks, it becomes not just obvious, but irrefutable, that pit bulls are more dangerous. This isn't an opinion. All you have to do is look at the data. No one is claiming this is a Pit Bull 1 all other breeds 0 kind of thing.
If the breed isn't listed, just Google the headline if you are really curious.

I didn't skip over them, I said there were also cases of Pit Bull attacks but I was trying to show other breeds also attack and kill as well. I was also trying to point out that in many cases I wonder if it's the training, or lack of, that's behind many of these sad instances. Your list for 2010 has 17 'Pit Bull' cases and as pointed out in several other posts many dogs are identified as Pit Bulls when they are actually not. I do believe there can be bad dogs but I also believe the vast majority is bad owners. I'm not trying to diminish the fact that there are cases of death by dog attack but as far as preventable deaths go it's way down on the list. In 2010 there were 33 reported deaths by dog attack, 2011 there were 15 and so far in 2012 there are appx: 18. In those same 3 years there were appx: 20,000 deaths per year caused by STD's and around 110,000 per year because of being obese and according to Harvard there are 58,000 deaths per year due to low intake of fruits and vegetables. I don't ever remember seeing a news report on somebody dying of an STD or because they didn't eat their veggies.

Roadhawg
10-05-2012, 10:13 AM
I also believe the owners need to be held more accountable for their pets who attack as well as breeders who crank out Pits as fast as they can not caring if they damage the blood line. Sadly there's nothing that can be done for the stupid people who get a dog because they want a bad ass dog and train it to be mean.

soonerguru
03-07-2013, 10:20 PM
I guess these were two more "misunderstood" sweeties.

Dax, 14-Month-Old Boy, Killed By Two Pit Bulls In Wisconsin (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/07/dax-boy-dies-after-pit-bull-attack_n_2829596.html)

Achilleslastand
03-07-2013, 10:28 PM
I guess these were two more "misunderstood" sweeties.

Dax, 14-Month-Old Boy, Killed By Two Pit Bulls In Wisconsin (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/07/dax-boy-dies-after-pit-bull-attack_n_2829596.html)

How can we be sure the pet owners were responsible pet owners?

soonerguru
03-07-2013, 10:51 PM
How can we be sure the pet owners were responsible pet owners?

This argument has gotten stale.

Prunepicker
03-08-2013, 12:46 AM
Our family had an AKC "American Pit Bull" in the 60's. She was honestly
the sweetest dog. However, if you crossed her she remembered and kept
the intruder at bay. She never attacked anyone but was a super guard
dog. Our Chihuahua was the watch dog. He slept on Lady's back Quite a
team. Which ever door Chico went to she'd follow. She didn't bark, either.

I know there are some very bad articles and commentary concerning pb's
but I believe most of it is due to the owner. They are very intelligent
dog's.

At any rate, here's an Ezine article. My experience says it's spot on.
Those who have had horrible experiences will say otherwise, which is
a reasonable rebut.

From EZine (http://ezinearticles.com/?How-Smart-Are-Pit-Bull-Terrier-Dogs?&id=134196)

okc_coder
03-08-2013, 08:33 AM
I believe any dog can be taught to be mean and how to attack. The reason Pit Bulls are in the news a lot is because stupid people buy them because they want a tough dog and train them to be that way. Like I said you can train any dog to be that way, 99% of the time it's not the dogs fault it had a stupid owner that trained it to be that way.

betts
03-08-2013, 11:08 AM
But, I don't see any articles about people being mauled to death by chihuahuas, Yorkshire terriers or corgis (the breed I own). If you love dogs and want one, especially if you have small children, why not have one that is more likely to love you to death than maul you?

PennyQuilts
03-08-2013, 12:28 PM
The pits I've been around have been just big babies - but I wouldn't trust them around a baby for anything. No one lifts an eyebrow when every book, online article or the like tries to steer certain families/individuals towards suitable breed that will fit their family/lifestyle. The underlying premise is that different breeds have different temperaments and needs. Some breeds are one man dogs, others family dogs, some love everyone, some are goofy, some are aloof, etc. Yes, there are individual personality differences and it is not a hard and fast rule but the general rule is valid. My adult Samoyeds are like 6 year olds in temperament. My labs were like love struck suitors. If someone is willing to say that "Labs are great dogs - such a wonderful temperament!" they've conceded the argument that breeds differ. Pits snap. They aren't trustworthy. That doesn't mean that all are that way and it doesn't mean that they aren't sweethearts. But if someone can say labs or goldens make great family dogs, there is nothing inconsistent in saying pits are dangerous. Not much you can do to change the underlying temperament of a lab, golden or a Samoyed. Why would a pit be any different?

okc_coder
03-08-2013, 01:43 PM
September 1982 to November 13, 2006

Airedale/boxer: The only listed attack was by 10 dogs at once.
Beagle: The fatality was a strangulation caused by tugging on a leash which was around a child's neck.
Border collie: Involved in 4-dog attack. The other dogs were two American bull dogs and a mastiff.
Boxer: Fatal attack on 3-week-old infant also involved a Rottweiler.
Dauschund: Julia Beck, 87, of Fort Wayne, died 5/15/05, two weeks after
attack by Dauschund & Lab at home she shared with Michael T. Kitchen, 48, and Linda A. Kitchen, 57.
Doberman: One miniature pinscher apparently joined two pit bull terriers in attacking a child.
East Highland terrier: Victim, age 75, died of heart attack.
German shepherd mix: One fatality victim, age 83, was apparently killed by an overly rowdy greeting. The victim was knocked down and suffered multiple broken bones, but was not bitten. The dog had bitten a person on a previous occasion. In that case, the skin was not broken. Another 83-year-old victim was killed by either a German shepherd/Labrador mix or a pit bull terrier, but it was not clear whether both dogs attacked her, or just one of them. An 18-day-old child was killed in an attack also involving a pit bull terrier/golden Lab mix.
Golden retriever: One dog responsible for an attack was rabid. Another
accidentally strangled Kaitlyn Hassard, 6, of Manorville, Long Island,
on 1/24/06, by tugging at her scarf.
Jack Russell terrier: Patricia Schneider, 50, of Discovery Bay, Calif.,
whose spleen had been removed, died in 2/98 of infection, 3 days after
receiving infected bite on lip at home of Diane Gardner and Elaine Goodney.
Labrador: Adult victim was attacked in her home by as many as 23 dogs owned by daughter. The Lab who severely mauled Jasmine Charboneau, 2, on 7/29/04 in Devils Lake, ND, proved to be rabid.
Labrador mix: Reports varied as to whether one case was severe enough to include.
Mastiff: One mastiff attack also involved an attacking pit bull terrier.
Pit bull terrier: One case involved a dog who assisted in a killing carried
out by a human. Another case was a 6-year-old girl who was caught and
strangled by a pit bull's chain. An 83-year-old victim was killed by either
a German shepherd/Labrador mix or a pit bull terrier, but it was not clear
whether both dogs attacked her, or just one of them. One case involved a
woman who was apparently killed by two pit bulls and one Rottweiler.
Pit bull/golden Lab mix: One child was killed in an attack also involving a German shepherd mix.
Pointer mix: Was involved in attack on Iran Menses, 66, of Los Angeles,
on 5/28/00, along with two pit bull terriers, but apparently did not
inflict any of Menses' injuries.
Poodle: Very strange case involved prescription drug use possibly affecting dog as well as victim.
Rottweiler: Jonathon Chandler, 6 months, of Lancaster, Ohio, was
reportedly crushed in bed by the family Rottweiler. Four other children,
ages 2-11, were removed from home of Shelly Fisher; case was
investigated as possible negligent homicide. Another case involved a woman who was apparently killed by two pit bulls and one Rottweiler.
Wolf hybrid: One adult victim was a small woman who was defending two children. The other was a small woman, 61, who was apparently defending her dog. In that instance, the wolf hybrid was identified as being a wolf hybrid/German shepherd cross, with the German shepherd configuration dominant. Some experts are sceptical that the animal had any wolf ancestry at all.


Dog Attacks by Breed (http://www.melbourne-petminders.com.au/Dangerous_Dog%20_Attacks.htm)

PennyQuilts
03-08-2013, 02:01 PM
The previous list and link are confusing to me - the numbers of pit bull attacks don't track. Moreover, it doesn't list Samoyeds as attacking anyone (much less killing them) but makes the leap that they have an attack pattern like wolf hybrids. WTF? I am involved in Samoyed rescue and have samoyeds and have never even heard of a Samoyed biting anyone. The worst thing I ever heard was when one growled and it was hurt. They were domesticated, in part, to sleep with babies and keep them warm. They were also watch dogs (they bark) rather than guard dogs. I have to wonder if this is sloppy analysis and the writer is just lumping all northern breeds in the same boat. That's crazy - huskies and Samoyeds have completely different temperaments - in fact, Samoyeds aren't much like any of the northern breeds when it comes to aggression. I must be missing something significant on the link because it does an analysis that says Pits - in so many words - tend to snap but I didn't see any evidence of that in the list of attacks.

Prunepicker
03-08-2013, 02:42 PM
The pits I've been around have been just big babies - but I wouldn't trust
them around a baby for anything...
It's a good practice to not allow a baby or child to be alone with any dog.
Even a Yorkie can playfully scratch an eye. There's no telling what the kid
will do to provoke an attack. F'rinstance, accidentally, or otherwise, poke it
with a play thing, pencil, suddenly scream, slap the dog, etc...

Plutonic Panda
03-08-2013, 02:54 PM
Not sure if this has been mentioned, there have been cases where people have been attacked by their own lions and even tigers in some cases. ;)

okc_coder
03-08-2013, 03:19 PM
That just happened, a trainer killed by her lion. Many attacks are attributed to Pits because many breeds are confused with Pit Bulls and when asked what kind of dog it was the person say's Pit a lot when it really wasn't.

Prunepicker
03-08-2013, 04:35 PM
For the record, a Golden Lab is a cross between a Golden Retriever and a
Labrador Retriever. It isn't a breed.

rezman
03-08-2013, 08:10 PM
Here are some pics of my dog after he was attacked by two pit bulls. He survived after spending 5 grand at the vet. Needless to say, any more pits that show up at my place will disappear.

PennyQuilts
03-08-2013, 09:39 PM
Oh jeeze - so sorry about the dogs, rezman, but happy that they survived.

PennyQuilts
03-08-2013, 09:52 PM
But, I don't see any articles about people being mauled to death by chihuahuas, Yorkshire terriers or corgis (the breed I own). If you love dogs and want one, especially if you have small children, why not have one that is more likely to love you to death than maul you?

Betts, I can't believe I didn't think about my corgi attack dog story when I first read your post but I'll share it now -

We had neighbors with rescue corgis - they just adored them and it was clearly mutual. They would walk their dogs morning and evening right by our house. Invariably, the male would go wild when he saw our old Samoyed, Sapphire. He had issues related to his life prior to being rescued, as I understand it. Sapphire was crippled up but she'd just lay in the front yard to watch us while we did yard work. The most active thing she did by that point was shed. It would always embarrass the neighbors that their male rescue would bark and lunge but we didn't worry about it. Sapphire was so old I am not sure she was even aware she was being "threatened."

One day, Old Sapphire was actually up walking in the yard when they came by and both the corgis lost their collective minds and jumped her!! The neighbors went wild with horror and frantically tried to pull the cogis back. The corgis made all kinds of ferocious noises and had tuffs of long white hair hanging out of their mouths - I was amazed they didn't choke to death (you've seen Samoyeds, right?). They looked like dwarves attacking the abominable snowman.

The "attack" lasted about twenty seconds. No blood was shed. It really was all for show and if they'd wanted to hurt her, they could have. They were really just "mouthing" her (the male) and the little female was following his lead. Sapphire didn't even get a bruise. When it was all said and done, the two corgis had white hair all over them and were spitting it out and blinking/rubbing their eyes. Sapphire was spinning and wagging her tail.

The neighbors raced home to put up the dogs, then raced back to offer to pay any vet bills. They were in a complete state. In the meantime, Sapphire was absolutely beside herself that she'd made new friends. She had NO idea that she'd been attacked and was in the best mood for the rest of the day. She never showed the slightest fear of them after that and, in fact, would wag her tail when she'd see them coming down the sidewalk.

Plutonic Panda
03-08-2013, 10:26 PM
The neighbors raced home to put up the dogs, then raced back to offer to pay any vet bills.Well they got lucky. When we moved back here in 2008, one of our neighbors was attacked and had a gash in his arm from a rot/pit mix. The owner came over and got his dog and walked away. Our neighbor told me when he went to talk to the owner, the owner said he shouldn't have been out in his yard!?!?!?! I thought DAFUQ?????? lol... It's crazy. I've talked to both and I never really get involved with other people problems, so I have no thoughts about the owner of the dog except I've had good experiences with him, he still should've offered to do something.

rezman
03-09-2013, 09:08 AM
Oh jeeze - so sorry about the dogs, rezman, but happy that they survived.

Thanks PennyQ. He is a mixed breed named Nomad and he was a stray that we adopted. He showed up at our place, and my wife and daughter started throwing pieces of chicken out the back door to him, and he never left.

The pit bulls did some serious damage to him, and it was a tough decission whether to put him down or not. But he is such a wonderful dog and so much a part of our family, that we had to try to save him.... .. it was worth every penny.

betts
03-09-2013, 04:17 PM
Betts, I can't believe I didn't think about my corgi attack dog story when I first read your post but I'll share it now -

We had neighbors with rescue corgis - they just adored them and it was clearly mutual. They would walk their dogs morning and evening right by our house. Invariably, the male would go wild when he saw our old Samoyed, Sapphire. He had issues related to his life prior to being rescued, as I understand it. Sapphire was crippled up but she'd just lay in the front yard to watch us while we did yard work. The most active thing she did by that point was shed. It would always embarrass the neighbors that their male rescue would bark and lunge but we didn't worry about it. Sapphire was so old I am not sure she was even aware she was being "threatened."

One day, Old Sapphire was actually up walking in the yard when they came by and both the corgis lost their collective minds and jumped her!! The neighbors went wild with horror and frantically tried to pull the cogis back. The corgis made all kinds of ferocious noises and had tuffs of long white hair hanging out of their mouths - I was amazed they didn't choke to death (you've seen Samoyeds, right?). They looked like dwarves attacking the abominable snowman.

The "attack" lasted about twenty seconds. No blood was shed. It really was all for show and if they'd wanted to hurt her, they could have. They were really just "mouthing" her (the male) and the little female was following his lead. Sapphire didn't even get a bruise. When it was all said and done, the two corgis had white hair all over them and were spitting it out and blinking/rubbing their eyes. Sapphire was spinning and wagging her tail.

The neighbors raced home to put up the dogs, then raced back to offer to pay any vet bills. They were in a complete state. In the meantime, Sapphire was absolutely beside herself that she'd made new friends. She had NO idea that she'd been attacked and was in the best mood for the rest of the day. She never showed the slightest fear of them after that and, in fact, would wag her tail when she'd see them coming down the sidewalk.

Funny story! Now, I wasn't implying that corgis can't be aggressive with other dogs. Au contraire. But, for some reason they seem to truly adore people. And, their capability to do damage makes me think of Monty Python and the Holy Grail. "I'll bite your legs off!" Below the knees, that is.

Hawk405359
03-09-2013, 06:03 PM
A friend of mine used to be a delivery truck driver, and another was a mailman. Strangely, they both swear that dachshund's were the worst species to deliver too.

I think Prune has it right though. Very young kids shouldn't be around any dogs. Even playing, dogs can cause damage inadvertently. And young kids generally tend to lack the degree of motor control that older kids would have, and are more likely to irritate the dog.

RadicalModerate
03-09-2013, 06:11 PM
I really like dogs (and dogs seem to like me) but I've never had and don't want one as a pet. But that is beside the point . . . In my study of dogs and their various behaviors (some winsome, some just annoying) I've often wondered if what goes on in the brain of say, a Corgi or a mini-Chihuahua, or one of those other shrunken down breeds is pretty much the same thing that goes on in the mind of, say, a German Shepherd or Bull Mastiff or Pit Bull . . . (in my opinion, based on careful observation I think Border Collies are the smartest of them all) . . . yet the question remains . . .

I think it was Margaret Something Or Other (not Cho, rather that female Jackie Vernon) who once said: "Did you every have that feeling, after walking into a room, of wondering or not remembering why you went in there? I think this is the way most dogs spend their entire lives."

RadicalModerate
03-09-2013, 06:20 PM
A friend of mine used to be a delivery truck driver, and another was a mailman. Strangely, they both swear that dachshund's were the worst species to deliver too.

Maybe it was because the were expecting "Fancy Feast for Dogs" and all they got was nasty, dried out spam junk mail.
Plus the driver probably couldn't speak enough German to convince the dog to sign the delivery slip.

WilliamTell
03-09-2013, 07:20 PM
I've commented about this in the past so i'll keep it short. I'm a huge dog lover and we have 2 large breed dogs of our own and I would like to get a 3rd. I've been one of those people on the sidelines for most of my life religiously saying its the owner, not the dog... until 5-6 years ago when i watched a pit bull completely unprovoked viciously attack a blue healer that was with me as i was unloading my truck. I was in the front yard with the blue healer and a pit bull broke loose and ran across the street and managed to do 4000 dollars in damage to the blue healer even though i was savagely beating the pitbull trying to get him to stop; and im a big guy with a lot of strength. I've had/have German Shepard's and other large dogs that have been used histoically for police work and never had a problem separating dogs but this was no where near the same.

After watching that unfold and taking the dog to the pet ER, i have no problem saying in my personal experience i would never trust one around a child or another dog.

Statistically speaking small annoying dogs are the most likely to bite, but pit bulls have so much power and so unpredictable that they are in a league of their own.

Im not saying that as they are awesome but if police and military around the world wont use despite their raw power; that says a lot.

JayhawkTransplant
03-09-2013, 07:50 PM
Im not saying that as they are awesome but if police and military around the world wont use despite their raw power; that says a lot.

This is untrue. "Pit bulls" (or, rather, Staffordshire Terriors and American Pit Bull Terriers) are used by police and the military. Also, US Customs has used them for narcotics and bomb detection. My brother-in-law is a dog handler in the Army and has used American Pit Bull Terriers on several occasions.

WilliamTell
03-10-2013, 07:14 AM
This is untrue. "Pit bulls" (or, rather, Staffordshire Terriors and American Pit Bull Terriers) are used by police and the military. Also, US Customs has used them for narcotics and bomb detection. My brother-in-law is a dog handler in the Army and has used American Pit Bull Terriers on several occasions.

I was referencing using them as police dogs, not narcotic/bomb dogs. I have no doubt that they would be just as good as any other dog in non conflict searching but they arent used to chase down subjects, bite and hold, and then release on command because its well documented that they are unpredictable and will not listen to their owners commands in those types of situations.

Thats as deep as im going into the discussion. I wouldnt be foolish enough to trust my kids around them and would not hesitate in shooting one if it was to come into my yard.