So sad to see tonight that Horn Seed Company is closing. I have shopped there for years and we always buy our Christmas decorations there. They are definitely part of Oklahoma City history.

I didn't know that. Horn's was an annual staple for our plant purchases.
They'll be missed.

Wow, that's too bad. I wonder why they are hanging it up.

I grew up with my green thumb grandmother constantly in their establishment. Sorry to hear the news.

http://newsok.com/horn-seed-co.-to-close-after-91-years-in-oklahoma-city/article/3699256

I worked there for a year in the mid-80's.

Sad news. After reading the article it sounds like they didn't have a business plan and were living off legacy. Goes to show the importance of valuing a business plan and marketing your business properly.

Sad news. After reading the article it sounds like they didn't have a business plan and were living off legacy. Goes to show the importance of valuing a business plan and marketing your business properly.

Were we reading the same article? I didn't see anything about a business plan or indication of a lack-thereof. I read their rent keeps going up, and they've recently suffered a fire, two hail storms and a devastating drought. I'd imagine overall their margins are modest and the business requires numerous employees, lots of hands on work and most likely a pretty hefty utility bill each month. Sure they have a legacy - but that is simply because they've been doing things 'right' long enough to outlast most other businesses. Seems like a pretty good business plan to me. Should they have secured ownership of their property? Probably, but many (if not most) businesses rent the land they sit on and its an operational expense. Relocating is very expensive and often detrimental to a business with a well known reputation that is tied to a longstanding location.

I would stop in every so often and their inventory, cleanliness and customer service seemed to always be what made them a 'legacy.' Many of their prices could not compete with big box hardware/garden stores and I'd assume that hurt them as much as anything else. But, the store had definite charm that will be lost forever.

Not saying they did or didn't have a text book business plan (you certainly can't draw a conclusion either way from the article), but I'd argue most locally owned and operated businesses are far less 'planned' than many people know.

Sad news. After reading the article it sounds like they didn't have a business plan and were living off legacy. Goes to show the importance of valuing a business plan and marketing your business properly.

I'd been telling the owners for some time to bring you in as a consultant.

The old Horn Seed building has been tagged with the dreaded fluorescent orange "MW". It won't be long until Midwest Wrecking will have heavy equipment working to raze the site.

The old Horn Seed building has been tagged with the dreaded fluorescent orange "MW". It won't be long until Midwest Wrecking will have heavy equipment working to raze the site.

I can’t imagine there is anything planned for that tract at this point, given where we are in the credit cycle. Weird choice to knock it down right now.

I've been watching this property for a couple of weeks.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hornseed031920a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hornseed031920b.jpg

1) This property has been the subject of two commercial fires in the last two years, with the most recent just three weeks ago.

2) Prior to this economic downturn, the plan for this location was something that would appeal to most in this city, and even those on this site.

I miss that place. Loved Herschel and Dorothy. My parents owned a greenhouse and nursery in SW Oklahoma and bought wholesale from them for many decades. In fact my Mother was pregnant with me and going there, so I can say I’d been going there longer than I was alive.

2) Prior to this economic downturn, the plan for this location was something that would appeal to most in this city, and even those on this site.
What a tease.

Does this lot extend all the way to the corner of NXW/Classen?

It's not going to happen, but i've always thought this would be an unbelievable location for a "multi-modal" hub with shopping/retail. If you run the street car up Classen to 63rd/Western(ish), then having it stop here along with making this the bus hub to the NW side of the city, I think you'd be able to actually provide quality service in that situation because you now could make this hub a transfer center. Buses could operate in specific areas as circulators to the BRT on NXW and occasionally running full routes to here, where the bus pass could give you a transfer to downtown via the street car.

This would also be a perfect place to house a "storage locker" where shoppers could circulate amongst Penn Square/OAK/Classen Curve/NHP/ETC, and stash their things until they're done shopping.

Just took these:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hornseed040620b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hornseed040620c.jpg

I'd never really thought about that property much, but the more I do think about it, it really is situated in nearly the perfect location, isn't it? The junction point between the older core neighborhoods, Classen Curve/Nichols Hills, the great areas along Western, and the main artery to the NW suburban areas. This really would be the perfect place for something unique and of very high quality.

As long as Edna's always gets left alone just as it is, thank you very much.

Wouldn't mind them knocking down those restaurants at all...Now's the perfect time!!

I'd never really thought about that property much, but the more I do think about it, it really is situated in nearly the perfect location, isn't it? The junction point between the older core neighborhoods, Classen Curve/Nichols Hills, the great areas along Western, and the main artery to the NW suburban areas. This really would be the perfect place for something unique and of very high quality.

As long as Edna's always gets left alone just as it is, thank you very much.

I feel similarly about 51st Street Speakeasy. Probably half of my top 10 favorite concerts have been there.

Wouldn't mind them knocking down those restaurants at all...Now's the perfect time!!

So, why do you want to tear down IHOP and the Mexican restaurant?

So, why do you want to tear down IHOP and the Mexican restaurant?

That's a very small tract, and it looks like the south/east ROWs would be almost impossible to modify.

Any material ("BLC") development would need to, at a minimum, include the Mexican restaurant tract and maybe even the piece to the west.

The property is actually over 3 acres:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hornseed040720a.jpg

The property is actually over 3 acres:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hornseed040720a.jpg

So is there going to be another OnQue going in...LOL

To be clear, there are currently no plans for this site? It is just being demo'd?

To be clear, there are currently no plans for this site? It is just being demo'd?

Yes, as far as I know.

That's a very small tract, and it looks like the south/east ROWs would be almost impossible to modify.

Any material ("BLC") development would need to, at a minimum, include the Mexican restaurant tract and maybe even the piece to the west.

I think the Housley Brothers store between the Courtyard and the demo site would be most important to acquire to build a consistent south face to the property. Also a small piece on the east end owned by View Point Holdings. The Gonzales family (Fire Place Club Inc.) has the Milagros property and I doubt would sell unless they just have to. A couple out of LA owns the IHOP property. I would guess it was probably a 1031 exchange and would create a huge tax consequence if they sell (just speculating).

So, why do you want to tear down IHOP and the Mexican restaurant?

I'm certain we can find higher and better use in this area. Perhaps not within the next 3 years, but surely within the next 10. When I said "Now's the perfect time" specifically I meant now's the perfect time to buy given how hard this whole thing is going to hit restaurants. Might as well bring all the land together now while it's still relatively cost effective.

I'm certain we can find higher and better use in this area. Perhaps not within the next 3 years, but surely within the next 10. When I said "Now's the perfect time" specifically I meant now's the perfect time to buy given how hard this whole thing is going to hit restaurants. Might as well bring all the land together now while it's still relatively cost effective.

I have a better idea.... let's help local business owners who are hit hard stay in business instead of taking advantage of their difficulty and trying to be vultures so we can put up new buildings some people may like.

I have a better idea.... let's help local business owners who are hit hard stay in business instead of taking advantage of their difficulty and trying to be vultures so we can put up new buildings some people may like.

IHOP is not exactly local.

I don't know much about Milagros. If it's a place worth keeping, then it's a place worth keeping and I don't imagine they'll struggle to bounce back after this is all over, especially with as much as we love Tex-Mex in Oklahoma + the general lack of Tex-Mex options in the immediate area. I might mention that I live 5 blocks away and I think I've been one time in 10-11 years and generally I don't hear much about the place. I've always just kind of assumed the place is on the later stages of its life cycle, but maybe it benefits greatly from the three hotels in their backyard.

IHOP is not exactly local.

I don't know much about Milagros. If it's a place worth keeping, then it's a place worth keeping and I don't imagine they'll struggle to bounce back after this is all over, especially with as much as we love Tex-Mex in Oklahoma + the general lack of Tex-Mex options in the immediate area. I might mention that I live 5 blocks away and I think I've been one time in 10-11 years and generally I don't hear much about the place. I've always just kind of assumed the place is on the later stages of its life cycle, but maybe it benefits greatly from the three hotels in their backyard.

Doesn't sound like they're very good, way more 1-star reviews (that detail why they only gave it 1 star, as opposed to the 5-star reviews that just say "Big margs, great salsa, delicious food, go there" :)) than any decent restaurant should have.

https://www.yelp.com/biz/casa-de-los-milagros-oklahoma-city?sort_by=date_desc

Lived two miles away from Milagros for nearly two years, worked in one of the offices buildings on NW Expressway for over four, and never went there either lol

I think we sometimes (often) make the mistake in OKC of thinking every new development has to be HUGE and require the assembly of lots of land. Wipe away existing structures...think grand thoughts... a la Chisholm Creek, OAK, University North Park, but also that failed development north of Quail Springs, etc. Some of that has its place, sure, but it's also possible to take just this 3 acres of land that already exists and do some kind of nice, mid-rise mixed use building. I don't even think it needs retail...we're about to have a glut of retail. Let's fill in some space and add to the density.

You realize, I say "let's" and "we" as if I, or anybody on this board actually owns the land. But I'm tired of thinking about COVID and poisoned by all of those posts over there and it's nice to dream about development again...

IHOP is not exactly local.

I don't know much about Milagros. If it's a place worth keeping, then it's a place worth keeping and I don't imagine they'll struggle to bounce back after this is all over, especially with as much as we love Tex-Mex in Oklahoma + the general lack of Tex-Mex options in the immediate area. I might mention that I live 5 blocks away and I think I've been one time in 10-11 years and generally I don't hear much about the place. I've always just kind of assumed the place is on the later stages of its life cycle, but maybe it benefits greatly from the three hotels in their backyard.

It’s true, the property owners of the Ihop property is a California couple. Since IHOP is unlikely to go under, it’s probably safe to assume the plan for hoping they are stressed so we can buy the property and tear it down isn’t going to work. Darn.

I think we sometimes (often) make the mistake in OKC of thinking every new development has to be HUGE and require the assembly of lots of land. Wipe away existing structures...think grand thoughts... a la Chisholm Creek, OAK, University North Park, but also that failed development north of Quail Springs, etc. Some of that has its place, sure, but it's also possible to take just this 3 acres of land that already exists and do some kind of nice, mid-rise mixed use building. I don't even think it needs retail...we're about to have a glut of retail. Let's fill in some space and add to the density.

You realize, I say "let's" and "we" as if I, or anybody on this board actually owns the land. But I'm tired of thinking about COVID and poisoned by all of those posts over there and it's nice to dream about development again...

To be sure, I'm decidedly in the camp of your opening statement. That being said, IMO, thoroughfares do better with more contiguous development, and if we're serious about the Streetcar passing right through here, it would be great to see everything on these corners maximized.

Just a comment, not much really to do with Horn Seed, but I just remembered when the Classen Circle was there and Big Beef BBQ was right there, used to love eating lunch there.

Lived two miles away from Milagros for nearly two years, worked in one of the offices buildings on NW Expressway for over four, and never went there either lol

Ate there 3 times. First time they served me enchiladas that were still frozen in the middle. I waited a few months and went with co-workers that LOVED it (for some reason). The chips were stale and the meal was mediocre. Waited a year and tried a third time. Ordered a shrimp dish. Worst food I've ever had. Needless to say I won't ever be back.

I won't support local business with this type of quality.

Completely gone now:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hornseed041820a.jpg

The property is actually over 3 acres:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hornseed040720a.jpg

Who owns the small parcel on the NW corner of Classen and NW Expy? Can't see it having enough room to be independently useful for much.

^

It used to be Housley Brothers furniture but is now for lease.

^

It used to be Housley Brothers furniture but is now for lease.

I think he meant the small triangle that currently has a billboard on it. Which I would say is probably the most useful use of the piece of property, a billboard or other paid advertising.

I think he meant the small triangle that currently has a billboard on it. Which I would say is probably the most useful use of the piece of property, a billboard or other paid advertising.

That's owned by "View Point Holdings", an Oklahoma City llc. I think they got it from the OK Highway Dept. almost 15 years ago. Not totally sure, but I think it is a guy out of Dallas in the restaurant business. Jeff Harrison.

Chick-fil-A has filed plans to build on this property.

Prepare for madness at that intersection

Wonder if they'll sell the excess stuff in the back or just have a gigantic parking lot.

Disappointed. That's a very high-profile piece of land. I would have hoped for something more substantive for that piece of property than a fast food restaurant,

boo!

If I had to guess, Chick-fil-A is just going on the pad site fronting NWX. Everything else is still in play. Chick-fil-A is in the chicken business, not the real estate business. They have no need for all of the property. They may not even be buying the land. Tons of fast food restaurants just lease land and build improvements. When the lease is over, the landlord keeps the improvements and the restaurant's hands are clean of the real estate.

Disappointed. That's a very high-profile piece of land. I would have hoped for something more substantive for that piece of property than a fast food restaurant,

Totally agree. What a disappointment.

Prepare for madness at that intersection

Wonder if they'll sell the excess stuff in the back or just have a gigantic parking lot.

This general area is already terrible due to the OnCue. I would almost hope that Chick-fil-A would build next to the IHOP, but I'm sure that's unlikely.

seems silly to do that, might as well split the property and sell the land for another hotel back there.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chickfila111621e.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chickfila111621b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chickfila111621c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/chickfila111621d.jpg

OMG. Right by our office. I am in trouble..

Deeply disappointed. Fast food is not even in the top ten highest uses of this high profile parcel.

Deeply disappointed. Fast food is not even in the top ten highest uses of this high profile parcel.

The market says otherwise.

Deeply disappointed. Fast food is not even in the top ten highest uses of this high profile parcel.

Am I the only one that finds this remark funny given the name of the poster.

The market says otherwise.

Yeah, they will be lined up every day, just like the others.

Will they make any adjustments to the service road?

Will they make any adjustments to the service road?

Man, I hope so. Even getting in & out of the On Cue can be dicey with traffic.

Will they make any adjustments to the service road?

You know, that was my first thought also! But then I got to thinking that maybe they can utilize that service road to keep the lines and stuff that would accumulate OFF off the main line. You know, exiting that area is going to be awful because as it is now, if memory serves correct I don't think you can get to that light at Blackwelder so the only exit will be a westerly turn out of the service road area. Maybe this is a good thing.

This is area is far out in the suburbs?
it's in the suburbs now... imagine how far out this was when the buildings were built. i think the newest 'tall building' in the area is penn bank tower and that was built in '82 at the latest and others like founders tower were built in the 60's.

edit: i was wrong... according to the assessor's site, penn bank tower was built in 1984.