If the summer weather patterns persist over the few years I wonder if summer averages of 105-113 degrees will be common? If so will we become the new Phoenix? If so, I'd have to seriously consider relocating - I don't think I can take 113 as a normal summer temperature...can you?

If the summer weather patterns persist over the few years I wonder if summer averages of 105-113 degrees will be common? If so will we become the new Phoenix? If so, I'd have to seriously consider relocating - I don't think I can take 113 as a normal summer temperature...can you?

Things have definitely been tough the last two years at least. I think we can also attribute that to the lack of any real tropical weather helping to cool us down from time to time. If this keeps up another couple of years, I'm definitely feeling the need to head back north.

I've actually been joking around with my family saying; "at this rate, in a few years Oklahoma will look like New Mexico and Oklahoma City will look like Phoenix"... Ironic that I'm not the only one here making the link of OKC-PHX.

And no, I wouldn't relocate because of the weather, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to buy a lakehouse somewhere up north.

OKC the new Phoenix?

It's been tough but I wouldn't call it Phoenix. I've been there in the summer and I wouldn't recommend it. The hottest its been this year was 109, not 113. Trust me that's a big difference.

I wouldn't relocate because of weather either, but its definitely nice to go for an escape. I'm sure by late February people in Minnesota and Chicago are all clamoring to get out too. This summer has been hot all over the US east of the Rockies.

What's more concerning to me is that the past two summers it has stopped raining completely. If it happens again in the summer of 2013, you have to wonder if this is something permanent.

What's more concerning to me is that the past two summers it has stopped raining completely. If it happens again in the summer of 2013, you have to wonder if this is something permanent.

Not to worry, Nothing is ever permanent when it comes to weather despite what our resident "the sky is falling" posters say.

At least our urban environment has way more class than most all of Phoenix (except Scottsdale), which still isn't saying a whole lot..

I would do away with my lawn and just fill my yard with rock pebbles. Save money on mowing, edging and watering.

This company is on to something;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LkV54Ivg7w

Semi-permanent drought greater than the one that happened in the years ~900 to ~1150 has been predicted over the American southwest and parts of the great plains for some time. Years like this could very well be the "wet" years by mid-century.
Press release on one such recent study by NSIDC: http://nsidc.org/news/press/20120730_draught.html

http://www.globalchange.gov/publications/reports/scientific-assessments/us-impacts/regional-climate-change-impacts/great-plains

this year is not as hot as last .. and next year won't be as hot as this year

this year is not as hot as last .. and next year won't be as hot as this year

So you think that La Nina will redevelop? That's a bold claim. Going to stand by it? Do you know of any precedent for a neutral ENSO to swing quickly back to where it just was? NCDC has 2011 at +.51 and 2012 so far right at +.52. I'm sure different data sets might disagree slightly, but I doubt any of them say what you just did with any strong conviction.

Unless you just mean in Oklahoma, in which case-yes.

If the summer weather patterns persist over the few years I wonder if summer averages of 105-113 degrees will be common? If so will we become the new Phoenix? If so, I'd have to seriously consider relocating - I don't think I can take 113 as a normal summer temperature...can you?

Myself and others on this board have mentioned moving in the weather patterns continue (KEEP ON SCREAMING ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING BEING A HOAX) that we have considered moving to a more northern location. I grew up in this state and the last couple of years have been brutal and worse than its ever been and its gotten to the point where its down right dangerous. For us its person choice since we love being outside aand being stuck inside for weeks at a time isnt the type of lifestyle we want.

Plus as others have mentioned in the thread the scenery continues to drastically change and it wont be the oklahoma we grew up with.

I thought it was the other way around, PHX is become more like OKC (from 1933).

Phoenix in 2011:
8W4Cx44XKZ4

Phoenix in 2012:
R5Jrxb5209I

At least our urban environment has way more class than most all of Phoenix (except Scottsdale), which still isn't saying a whole lot..
Yes, OKC is more traditionally "east coast urban", but Phoenix feels more vibrant and dense in most areas.

I don't really know what you're definition of class is, but I am a fellow urban advocate for the most part...
1. Phoenix is far more walkable than OKC; I've never seen a major road without sidewalks.
2. There is a lot more modern architecture in Phoenix, even in the inner city. While all of it might not engage the sidewalk, it mostly provides for an interesting streetscape. One thing I will concede is that historic preservation here sucks, so there are not very many historic neighborhoods older than 50-60 years old.
3. Every single subdivision in the suburbs built within the past 10 years and most of the major mile roads across the city proper have bike lanes.
4. Interestingly, in the suburbs for sure, there is more of a tree canopy and I would even say more greenery in general in PHX than in OKC because of the higher focus and priority on landscaping here (and yes, it is sustainable because of the use of/modernization of canals that were used by the Natives here for hundreds of years, and because most yards here are xeriscaped). Honestly, OKC looks more dull in the summer than PHX, apart from places like MBG or homes in the inner city northside.


I thought it was the other way around, PHX is become more like OKC (from 1933).

Yep, we've had at least three pretty good sized ones so far this summer.

In 1993, Tipton, OK, topped out at 121. I hardly doubt anyone left after that day.

Phoenix is awesome in the winter...here...(with the exception of this past winter)...not so much.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-police-arrest-a-naked-man-and-another-man-wearing-only-underwear/article/3697067

The natives are already stripping off their clothes and going nuts.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-police-arrest-a-naked-man-and-another-man-wearing-only-underwear/article/3697067

The natives are already stripping off their clothes and going nuts.

PCP is a hell of a drug.

I wonder how many other places on earth hit 100 on a consistent basis in the summers then have very cold winters. Not to mention, the almost unprecedented severe thunderstorms in the spring.

I know the recent winter was mild but there have been years when it was brutally cold for a protracted time.


I bet OKC uses more energy per household on heating & cooling than anywhere else.

I wonder how many other places on earth hit 100 on a consistent basis in the summers then have very cold winters. Not to mention, the almost unprecedented severe thunderstorms in the spring.

I know the recent winter was mild but there have been years when it was brutally cold for a protracted time.


I bet OKC uses more energy per household on heating & cooling than anywhere else.

Didn't find one with cities, but I found this report with states:
Ten States that use the Most Energy Per Capita (http://www.usnews.com/news/slideshows/the-10-states-that-use-the-most-energy-per-capita)

14th as a state per capita on this list:

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/ene_tot_ele_con_percap-total-electricity-consumption-per-capita

We have our cold snaps but I don't think they've ever lasted more than 4 or 5 days, at least in OKC. The northwest part of the state can get a bit colder though. Even though the winter mornings can be frigid it usually warms up nicely in the day if you are in the sun.

I've been in Oklahoma 7 years and only point I remember snow being on the ground for an extended period of time (as in more than a week) right after the 2009 Christmas Eve Snowstorm. That took a good 3-4 weeks to completely melt. The 1st blizzard of 2011 hit on a Tuesday morning, and if I'm not mistaken, it was pretty much melted by that Sunday. The angle of the sun this far south just isn't favorable to snowpack and cold outbreaks like they have in other parts of the country.

Speaking of the sun, betcha didn't know that OKC is one of the sunniest cities in America, even sunnier than San Diego in terms of hours of sunlight.

It may not stay super cold for weeks, but every winter there are patches where temps get down into the teens or lower. There have been winters where it has stayed very cold for the better part of a month.

I just read that central Oklahoma averages about 85 days a year where the temp goes below freezing.


Really amazing when you think about the extremes.

...OKC is one of the sunniest cities in America, even sunnier than San Diego in terms of hours of sunlight.

Yeah, maybe, kinda, with one BIG caveat or, maybe disclaimer is the more proper word to use.

San Diego is unique, even to Southern California, in that they have a Mediterranean-like climate that allows for morning low clouds from the marine layer close to the coast. For about two months out of the year, it lasts a bit longer and goes further inland and it's known in SD as "May Gray/June Gloom."

I'd take the May Gray/June Gloom and then 10 months of brilliant sunshine with an ocean breeze over the extremes of Oklahoma (if it was only about the climate). So while OKC may work out to "more" sunshine in a 365 day year, it's quite different. Go inland to say, Poway, and they don't usually even have the clouds in May and June. San Diego has an incredible climate.

Wasn't it like -31 degrees a few winters ago around northeast OK? I guess they don't have that kind of temp in Phoenix in the winter.

It may not stay super cold for weeks, but every winter there are patches where temps get down into the teens or lower. There have been winters where it has stayed very cold for the better part of a month.

I just read that central Oklahoma averages about 85 days a year where the temp goes below freezing.


Really amazing when you think about the extremes.

Unless you think in Kelvin ;)

I wonder how many other places on earth hit 100 on a consistent basis in the summers then have very cold winters. Not to mention, the almost unprecedented severe thunderstorms in the spring.

I know the recent winter was mild but there have been years when it was brutally cold for a protracted time.


I bet OKC uses more energy per household on heating & cooling than anywhere else.

Very few places on Earth outside of parts of central Asia (Siberia, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, etc.) have the extreme weather fluctuations that we experience on the Plains. Weeks of 100+ with several days of 110+ and no rain followed by a winter where temps. can go below 0 with temps. below freezing possible for several days (like February 2011) mixed with ice storms, blizzards, tornadoes, hail, high winds, and flash flooding. When you factor all of that in the Plains (with Oklahoma at the epicenter) arguably has the most extreme weather on the planet..

We are struggling to keep our trees alive -- trees that have been here about 60 years. This weather sucks.

Very few places on Earth outside of parts of central Asia (Siberia, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, etc.) have the extreme weather fluctuations that we experience on the Plains. Weeks of 100+ with several days of 110+ and no rain followed by a winter where temps. can go below 0 with temps. below freezing possible for several days (like February 2011) mixed with ice storms, blizzards, tornadoes, hail, high winds, and flash flooding. When you factor all of that in the Plains (with Oklahoma at the epicenter) arguably has the most extreme weather on the planet..

Yes, and even just looking at the Great Plains Oklahoma seems to be the most extreme.

Texas gets as hot but not nearly as cold and virtually no snow. Anywhere north gets more snow but over 100 is a rare thing.

We haven't even mentioned the wind, and I know OKC is right at the top of that list as well.

. . . and tornadoes . . .
. . . and earthquakes . . .

Having lived on the high plains of western Kansas and in the Texas & Oklahoma panhandles I know what they experience and it’s even more extreme and devastating than what we normally experience in central OK.

They have far more high wind events. They still have choking dust storms with blowing tumble weeds that cause damage. Serious blizzards are truly life threating for anyone not in an appropriate shelter.

High plains blizzards make what we have had in recent years look like child’s play. The worst will kill off virtually all wild life that isn’t underground and most unprotected livestock. Their lungs fill with fluid and they drown.

In most of Kansas subzero weather happens nearly every winter and it never warms up when they have a snow pack. With a snow pack very few days make it above freezing, for weeks at a time. In western Kansas a bad blizzard can completely cover houses in exposed areas. I have seen -30 temperatures with wind chills in the -90 range. Try going without electricity in that weather. It’s no fun. Your drive to work and home is slowed many more days. They have a much tougher standard for school closures. In general the people are tougher and more independent.

I have seen trains stuck in the snow. I have worked outside for days at a time in subzero temperatures with wind chills of -30 to -60 most of the time.

Your are much more on your own. In the worst cases you might need to plow your own street or road with your own equipment, or wait 3 to 4 weeks until the city, state and county equipment makes it. Most full time farmers have their own snow plows. Most long time residents have an alternative source of heat and 2 or 3 weeks’ worth of food if not more.

The weather on the high plains controls your life’s events many more days than the weather changes your plans in central or eastern Oklahoma.

The high plains on average have more serious hail storms; there are a few cases where the hail has accumulated a few feet deep, on the level, over a several square mile area.

While it gets just a little hotter in central Oklahoma it’s dry enough that trees do not grow in far western Kansas unless man waters them and even then most stay very small because of the wind storms.

They too get devastating Armageddon tornadoes.

Then you have the fed lot and packing plant smells that exist in many locations.

It may not be saying very much to some, but Norman has the nicest weather of any place I have ever lived and it’s not even close when compared to Western Kansas.

I suppose there are good reasons so few people live in the areas you describe, ou48A.


I would still stack OKC up against any other city in terms of extreme weather, although if you include Amarillo they would have a strong case as well.

I suppose there are good reasons so few people live in the areas you describe, ou48A.


I would still stack OKC up against any other city in terms of extreme weather, although if you include Amarillo they would have a strong case as well.

If you’re talking major city’s then yes…OKC would be about as extreme as it gets. Although Wichita KS should also enter the discussion. They have wider temperature extremes than OKC and virtually all other conditions.

But the area that I am primarily talking about is in western Kansas and deep in the heart of the old dust bowl. It’s easily another notch up on the extreme category than Amarillo or Wichita. I would a lot rather put up with OKC’s weather than Amarillo’s.

In large parts of Kansas… they develop a snow / ice pack nearly every winter and when they do it makes their winters so much worse than anything we have.

This is very true….. Our very worst winter weather in a life time around OKC is a fairly normal event several times a winter (most winters) in the western Kansas area.

The further north you go on the Great Plains the bigger the record temperature extremes get.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._state_temperature_extremes

The further north you go on the Great Plains the bigger the record temperature extremes get.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._state_temperature_extremes

Good chance. In my case, I would be either going to the Great Lakes or Pacific Northwest. I missed "real" trees and seasons. :)

OKC the new Phoenix?

It's been tough but I wouldn't call it Phoenix. I've been there in the summer and I wouldn't recommend it. The hottest its been this year was 109, not 113. Trust me that's a big difference.

I wouldn't relocate because of weather either, but its definitely nice to go for an escape. I'm sure by late February people in Minnesota and Chicago are all clamoring to get out too. This summer has been hot all over the US east of the Rockies.

What's more concerning to me is that the past two summers it has stopped raining completely. If it happens again in the summer of 2013, you have to wonder if this is something permanent.

Both 2011 and 2012 weather patterns have been heavily influenced by a La Nina system. Extremely hot temperatures and dry conditions over the south central US are not uncommon during La Nina years. With meteorologists murmuring about a possible El Nino forming in the next six months, its very likely 2013 summer weather will be very different from 2011 and 2012.

That's true about La Nina, but there's more than that going on. '98 was a very strong El Niño year, and it still set records here.
http://news.discovery.com/earth/extreme-heat-new-norm-120805.html?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews#mkcpgn=rssnws1

That's true about La Nina, but there's more than that going on. '98 was a very strong El Niño year, and it still set records here.
http://news.discovery.com/earth/extreme-heat-new-norm-120805.html?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews#mkcpgn=rssnws1

I was just looking at weather records and it seems like weather patterns usually happen in 2-3 year cycles. 1998-1999 were extremely hot and dry in the same way 2007-2009 were very wet summers. The '98 El Nino was strongest in fall '97 and winter '98 and had less of an effect come summer '98. 1999 was a strong La Nina year which is what you would expect as hot and dry as it was. 2002 and 2009 were El Nino years and both of those years has plentiful precipitation and cooler summer temperatures. The current pattern has lasted two years so lets hope the summer of 2013 is the beginning of wetter and not-as-hot times.

Good chance. In my case, I would be either going to the Great Lakes or Pacific Northwest. I missed "real" trees and seasons. :)

Great Lakes here I come.....

I was just looking at weather records and it seems like weather patterns usually happen in 2-3 year cycles. 1998-1999 were extremely hot and dry in the same way 2007-2009 were very wet summers. The '98 El Nino was strongest in fall '97 and winter '98 and had less of an effect come summer '98. 1999 was a strong La Nina year which is what you would expect as hot and dry as it was. 2002 and 2009 were El Nino years and both of those years has plentiful precipitation and cooler summer temperatures. The current pattern has lasted two years so lets hope the summer of 2013 is the beginning of wetter and not-as-hot times.

I remember 1997 having a cooler, wet summer along with 2007. Those stand out since they are so rare in OK.

I suppose there are good reasons so few people live in the areas you describe, ou48A.


I would still stack OKC up against any other city in terms of extreme weather, although if you include Amarillo they would have a strong case as well.

Not having a port was probably one of the bigger limits on population for the first few hundred years.

Lets see now. The Phoenix forcast for the next week is temps from 110 to 115. OKC averages will be about 10 degrees less. Nothing to see here so move along.