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Sore losers. For millions of Americans government being involved in healthcare is the only way they will get healthcare. I trust elected government officials more than private insurance executives.

Soonerqueen, this is not the political forum so i askyou the following question with respect and i would appreaciate it if you would answer me back.

Do you (or under your husbands policy) currently have healthcare that is paid for by the tax payer? By that I mean do you (or husband) work or have worked for the federal government, government contractor, state, state contractor, university, school, medicare, medicade, soonercare, etc,etc or any other tax payer paid system?

The second part of my question is how is the Affordable Care act going to directly effect you ?

Sore losers. For millions of Americans government being involved in healthcare is the only way they will get healthcare. I trust elected government officials more than private insurance executives.

It's certainly a lesser-of-two-evils situation but there isn't one single thing the government does better than private industry where competition rules. This entire situation could be handled by private industry but with significant government regulation - much like public utilities were once done.

USPS version 2.0

Soonerqueen, this is not the political forum so i askyou the following question with respect and i would appreaciate it if you would answer me back.

Do you (or under your husbands policy) currently have healthcare that is paid for by the tax payer? By that I mean do you (or husband) work or have worked for the federal government, government contractor, state, state contractor, university, school, medicare, medicade, soonercare, etc,etc or any other tax payer paid system?

The second part of my question is how is the Affordable Care act going to directly effect you ?

We have insurance through my husband's employer, and we have never been employed by any government agency or tax payer system. We work and pay for our own insurance.I don't think any of us truly know how we are going to be affected by the Obamacare plan. Some of the parts of it aren't bad, but others I'm not sure of. My fear is that after awhile most companies will go to the government insurance, and the quality of healthcare will be way below what we have now. America has always been a country of freedom and choices. When the government takes over,your choices disappear. Unless Romney is elected, we will have Obamacare. Guess everyone needs to decide for themselves what they want and then be sure and vote.

We have insurance through my husband's employer, and we have never been employed by any government agency or tax payer system. We work and pay for our own insurance.I don't think any of us truly know how we are going to be affected by the Obamacare plan. Some of the parts of it aren't bad, but others I'm not sure of. My fear is that after awhile most companies will go to the government insurance, and the quality of healthcare will be way below what we have now. America has always been a country of freedom and choices. When the government takes over,your choices disappear. Unless Romney is elected, we will have Obamacare. Guess everyone needs to decide for themselves what they want and then be sure and vote.

Romney gets the ACA repealed - then what will we have? The status quo? Is that a real option? I have very mixed feelings. This whole plan is not a "government takeover." If anything, the government handed over all-new now mandated taxpayers to shell out to private insurance companies. What do you mean when you say, "the government plan?" There is none. The 'public option' is not a part of the ACA. If you're talking about the 'exchanges', which will soon become part of the system, that's the one thing I have hopes for as being competitors to Big Insurance. With private competition from these co-op like exchanges (Walgreens, for example, is planning one) it will drive the premiums down. Remember, proposed premium caps were thrown out, so the exchanges will have to prove the free market can deal with health care in a way that's affordable. In fact, "ObamaCare" is almost the exact same thing as what the Republicans proposed in 1994 in reaction to "HillaryCare." Neither plan went anywhere. That GOP plan from '94, now in place (almost intact) as law is certainly no "government takeover." Like I said, I have mixed feelings, but the current Affordable Care Act is a centrist plan and far from the leftist government takeover that so many talk about.

Having a plan that roughly half the country is for and roughly half is against is likely setting up a problem in the long run, one major problem with this and a lot of the politics of at least the last twenty years is policies are increasingly unilateral where one side puts something in place when they have power only to be undone and redone as majorities change. Which is drastically more wasteful than coming up with a plan both sides can live with, with of course the exception where both sides choose to ignore our debt spiraling up for decades and only bring it up to give token reasons for why it was the other parties fault.

No option to purchase insurance across state lines and no tort reform. Undoubtedly those 2 add 25% to your health care costs. The reason is the Dems are in the pockets of the trail lawyers and the insurance lobby. Had they done what's good for the people of America rather than what enhances their reelection chances, the non partisan passed AHCA might not fail the smell test.

. The reason is the Dems are in the pockets of the trail lawyers and the insurance lobby.

And the Repubs are in the pockets of corporations so where does that leave us?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/07/kaisermoveon.jpg

And the Repubs are in the pockets of corporations so where does that leave us?

Where do you think it leaves us? That is a serious question.

Having a plan that roughly half the country is for and roughly half is against is likely setting up a problem in the long run, one major problem with this and a lot of the politics of at least the last twenty years is policies are increasingly unilateral where one side puts something in place when they have power only to be undone and redone as majorities change. Which is drastically more wasteful than coming up with a plan both sides can live with, with of course the exception where both sides choose to ignore our debt spiraling up for decades and only bring it up to give token reasons for why it was the other parties fault.

I don't really buy the importance of public opinion here. Most of the public doesn't even know what the Act does or what it's going to cost them. As far as this particular Act and saying there was no compromise, that's utter hogwash. This plan proposed by the Democrats was originally a Republican plan. It is as free-market as we can be in approaching this system and will place insurance companies in a position to reduce costs and look for efficient means to deliver care.

There was quite a bit of discussion and negotiation going into this Bill. The biggest problem is that Republicans had one way of responding to it--"no." They wouldn't even meaningfully come to the table. So this is what we get. No public option (dropped), no single payer (dropped).

Sore losers. For millions of Americans government being involved in healthcare is the only way they will get healthcare. I trust elected government officials more than private insurance executives.

Both are pretty low on the ol' trust meter

I don't really buy the importance of public opinion here. Most of the public doesn't even know what the Act does or what it's going to cost them. As far as this particular Act and saying there was no compromise, that's utter hogwash. This plan proposed by the Democrats was originally a Republican plan. It is as free-market as we can be in approaching this system and will place insurance companies in a position to reduce costs and look for efficient means to deliver care.

There was quite a bit of discussion and negotiation going into this Bill. The biggest problem is that Republicans had one way of responding to it--"no." They wouldn't even meaningfully come to the table. So this is what we get. No public option (dropped), no single payer (dropped).

+1

Plus, Im not sure, but isnt the new republican god (Romney) the one who created a state health care system while he was govenor? How can he create gov't healthcare in his state, then turn around and pander for votes by saying it is a terrible idea? People need to read more on their own. Stop listening to whatever 24 hr news cycle spits out.

People act like healthcare right now is amazing. Its horrible. Corrupt insurance companies and corrupt doctors (not all but there is a large amount) raping patients wallets with unnecessary test and cost just because they can. Unforunately, we either need more regulation, or we could just ship all the poor and sick people to another country. Take your pick. I do not really care either way, I would just like to stop hearing people bitch about everything honestly.

The healthier everyone can be, the cheaper the cost will be. If everyone can have the same access to medicine and treatments, the overall cost of healthcare will go down as people will become healthier all around. Everyone will save money by not having to pay extra to support thsoe without healthcare that cannot pay for their hospital cost.

And honestly, why hold a rally in Oklahoma? Our lawmakers already have screwed the state over by refusing to acklowledge the law. They are already on your side.

Why waste your energy when you could be creating tea party banners and hanging "Dont tread on my flags" on your houses?

The state now has the option of creating the exchange or not. There will be consequences if they don't, including thousands of Oklahomans enrolling in a federal exchange. If your goal is to get more people on federally-managed health care plans then this protest is a great idea.

And honestly, why hold a rally in Oklahoma? Our lawmakers already have screwed the state over by refusing to acklowledge the law. They are already on your side.

Why waste your energy when you could be creating tea party banners and hanging "Dont tread on my flags" on your houses?
DOn't forget the majority of voters rejected it as well.

Soonerqueen I think most of us support citizens being active in causes they support, regardless of the particulars of what those causes are. If you end up going, drop back by and let us know what you thought. And have a happy fourth of July!

We have insurance through my husband's employer, and we have never been employed by any government agency or tax payer system. We work and pay for our own insurance.I don't think any of us truly know how we are going to be affected by the Obamacare plan. Some of the parts of it aren't bad, but others I'm not sure of. My fear is that after awhile most companies will go to the government insurance, and the quality of healthcare will be way below what we have now. America has always been a country of freedom and choices. When the government takes over,your choices disappear. Unless Romney is elected, we will have Obamacare. Guess everyone needs to decide for themselves what they want and then be sure and vote.

Wow, haven't been on here in a while, but doesn't look like much has changed. The conservatives have no idea what they are rallying for, but it doesn't matter because it's "Obama"Care. And who is "we"? Didn't you say a while back that you don't have a job?

Soonerqueen I think most of us support citizens being active in causes they support, regardless of the particulars of what those causes are. If you end up going, drop back by and let us know what you thought. And have a happy fourth of July!

Also regardless of the actual outcome if the pressure succeeds, which in this case would be tens of thousands of Oklahomans on federal health care plans.

+1

Plus, Im not sure, but isnt the new republican god (Romney) the one who created a state health care system while he was govenor? How can he create gov't healthcare in his state, then turn around and pander for votes by saying it is a terrible idea? People need to read more on their own. Stop listening to whatever 24 hr news cycle spits out.

People act like healthcare right now is amazing. Its horrible. Corrupt insurance companies and corrupt doctors (not all but there is a large amount) raping patients wallets with unnecessary test and cost just because they can. Unforunately, we either need more regulation, or we could just ship all the poor and sick people to another country. Take your pick. I do not really care either way, I would just like to stop hearing people bitch about everything honestly.

The healthier everyone can be, the cheaper the cost will be. If everyone can have the same access to medicine and treatments, the overall cost of healthcare will go down as people will become healthier all around. Everyone will save money by not having to pay extra to support thsoe without healthcare that cannot pay for their hospital cost.

if you don't understand the different point of view of what a state does for itself (and how is that workign out for mass) and what the federal govt does .. i'm not sure we can have a conversation ...

the AFA will raise costs across the board .. and with the medicaid expansion no 100% optional ... the AFA will NOT even provide insurance to everyone like was touted ...

It will not raise costs across the board. Did you read that in Superfrackonomics too?

If you don't give people healthcare, they simply show up in the Emergency Room for all their health care, including sore throats, sunburns and diaper rashes. You cannot be turned away from an Emergency Room if you show up, nor can that hospital ship you off to a "charity" hospital, so it makes it simple to start using the ER for all health care if you have no insurance. Or, if you're too proud, you suffer at home, no matter how bad your problem. Using the ER for basic health care slows ir down for everyone, and ultimately, we pay for the healthcare of the uninsured regardless. The hospitals simply raise what they charge to the rest of us to make up the difference. The only way to avoid paying for health care for those who cannot afford it is to make it legal to turn sick people without insurance away. If you've got the moral stomach for that.....and I'm one of those "corrupt(isn't that what someone in a post above called me and my colleagues?)" doctors....you've got a stronger stomach than I do.

If you don't give people healthcare, they simply show up in the Emergency Room for all their health care, including sore throats, sunburns and diaper rashes. You cannot be turned away from an Emergency Room if you show up, nor can that hospital ship you off to a "charity" hospital, so it makes it simple to start using the ER for all health care if you have no insurance. Or, if you're too proud, you suffer at home, no matter how bad your problem. Using the ER for basic health care slows ir down for everyone, and ultimately, we pay for the healthcare of the uninsured regardless. The hospitals simply raise what they charge to the rest of us to make up the difference. The only way to avoid paying for health care for those who cannot afford it is to make it legal to turn sick people without insurance away. If you've got the moral stomach for that.....and I'm one of those "corrupt(isn't that what someone in a post above called me and my colleagues?)" doctors....you've got a stronger stomach than I do.


Thanks Betts! Not sure why so many folks refuse to understand this very simple explanation. What makes it even worse is when folks who have lost their coverage try to do the right thing, and end up filing bankruptcy due to medical bills they'll never be able to pay.

There is an article in the current issue of Time that is worth reading about the healthcare law. Basically if you already have insurance through your employer nothing should change.

Some people cannot get health insurance without the affordable healthcare act as insurance companies will discriminate certain people with preexisting conditions and you would be surprised about some of the things that they classify as preexisting conditions. I have aspergers which is a kind of autism for instance and they consider that a preexisting condition even though autism is more of a learning disability than a health problem and just because I have autism does not mean I am any more likely to have to go to the hospital. It is not as if everyone who does not have health insurance chooses not to get it but some people are discriminated by the insurance companies for a preexisting condition and not everyone can control the fact that they have a preexisting condition. I cannot control the fact that I have autism for instance as I was born with it but it will prevent me from being able to get health insurance if the affordable health care act gets repealed. I would much whether be required to get health insurance than to be unable to get it. You should learn why some people do not have insurance before casting assuming everyone who does not have it chooses not to get it.

Way back in the thread I mentioned the exchanges, which is the part of the plan I'm actually excited about. I said they would be private plans and they will be - but they'll be administered by the states. If the states don't get one up and going (hello, Oklahoma?) one might have to opt for the federal exchange, but we're still talking private plans. They have to be run by non-profits, but Walgreens, for example, is setting up a non-profit to throw their hat into the exchange plans. It will drive people to their pharmacy, at least that's the idea. These things have the potential to bring about real competition and drive premiums down.

I think we need to calm down and get on board with this. As I said before, it's so close to what the GOP proposed in 1994 in response to HillaryCare (The Clinton Plan) that it's truly hard to distinguish them. Now, all of a sudden, it's "socialized medicine." Far from it. It will enrich the private insurance companies if these exchanges don't work. Oklahoma needs to accept administration of a state exchange before a certain date. They need to get on the ball and just do it. Big Insurance is fighting everything in states who haven't agreed to administer their own plan, in hopes the date will pass and they won't have the chance. It's the only way they can keep their premiums high! So obviously, Big Insurance doesn't want the states to setup their own exchanges. This plan: It's what we have and it's not going to be repealed, no matter the rhetoric. So, Oklahoma, let's get with it and let the "free market" part of this work. Monopolies never do.

Bottom line to Oklahoma Republican legislators: Cover your bases and get on board with the exchanges. The insurance companies are tricking you with their lobbying and politics. They want you NOT to let the true "free market" part of this work!

Soonerqueen I think most of us support citizens being active in causes they support, regardless of the particulars of what those causes are. If you end up going, drop back by and let us know what you thought. And have a happy fourth of July!

What if these citizens have no idea what the hell they are even supporting?

And don't worry, she won't be dropping back by to give her thoughts. I doubt she even went.

I saw where there were some baptist preachers preaching as well. What a shock. WWJD??

http://areform.org/se/2012/07/oklahomans-come-together-for-healthcare-independence/

I found this article and it tells better than I could about the rally Saturday. They said about 300 or more showed up, but I would say a little less than 1,000. I am actually in one of the pictures shown in the article, but I'm not telling who I am. The rally was put together in less than a week, and whoever did it, did a great job. The speakers were all very informative, and the people all very nice. The OKC Tea Party sponsored a car rally Sunday afternoon with supporters driving around OKC with placards on their cars supporting Obama being a one term President. I didn't go to that one. But while early for me, the rally was well worth attending. I'm glad I went even though my being there made no changes and didn't affect anyone but me.

What if these citizens have no idea what the hell they are even supporting?

And don't worry, she won't be dropping back by to give her thoughts. I doubt she even went.

I doubt you were right about that BF.

Saw shots of the crowd and it looked like many there were on Medicare...Love that private insurance...Huh?...No crap?

There is an article in the current issue of Time that is worth reading about the healthcare law. Basically if you already have insurance through your employer nothing should change.

Unless your employer decides it is cheaper to drop the insurance and pays the fine instead. That is what my former employer said he was going to do if it passed/implemented.

Unless your employer decides it is cheaper to drop the insurance and pays the fine instead. That is what my former employer said he was going to do if it passed/implemented.

Sounds like a real stand up guy. Next he will cut your wages to make you food stamp eligible.

I was having a conversation with a girl who was complaining about Obama care and the kicker is she doesn't have insurance and will be able to get it under the ACA.

Unless your employer decides it is cheaper to drop the insurance and pays the fine instead. That is what my former employer said he was going to do if it passed/implemented.

I would find another employer if they did that. Shows how they really value their employees..

Unless your employer decides it is cheaper to drop the insurance and pays the fine instead. That is what my former employer said he was going to do if it passed/implemented.

It is ALWAYS cheaper to not offer coverage...

The OKC Tea Party sponsored a car rally Sunday afternoon with supporters driving around OKC with placards on their cars supporting Obama being a one term President.

It's the little things like that, that are probably gonna give Romney the edge here in Oklahoma come election day.

It's the little things like that, that are probably gonna give Romney the edge here in Oklahoma come election day.

We are the reddest state in the nation. I am sure Romney will carry Oklahoma. There are a few other make or break states. Just can't predict the outcome of this election. It could be very close..

It's the little things like that, that are probably gonna give Romney the edge here in Oklahoma come election day.

Funny stuff

http://areform.org/se/2012/07/oklahomans-come-together-for-healthcare-independence/

I found this article and it tells better than I could about the rally Saturday. They said about 300 or more showed up, but I would say a little less than 1,000. I am actually in one of the pictures shown in the article, but I'm not telling who I am. The rally was put together in less than a week, and whoever did it, did a great job. The speakers were all very informative, and the people all very nice. The OKC Tea Party sponsored a car rally Sunday afternoon with supporters driving around OKC with placards on their cars supporting Obama being a one term President. I didn't go to that one. But while early for me, the rally was well worth attending. I'm glad I went even though my being there made no changes and didn't affect anyone but me.

You say the speakers were informative, what exactly did you learn?

Also, from the link you gave, pictured was Toby Pedford. What did you learn from him? Do you know anything about him? If not, thelostogle.com can tell you more, LOL.

http://areform.org/se/2012/07/oklahomans-come-together-for-healthcare-independence/

I found this article and it tells better than I could about the rally Saturday. They said about 300 or more showed up, but I would say a little less than 1,000. I am actually in one of the pictures shown in the article, but I'm not telling who I am. The rally was put together in less than a week, and whoever did it, did a great job. The speakers were all very informative, and the people all very nice. The OKC Tea Party sponsored a car rally Sunday afternoon with supporters driving around OKC with placards on their cars supporting Obama being a one term President. I didn't go to that one. But while early for me, the rally was well worth attending. I'm glad I went even though my being there made no changes and didn't affect anyone but me.
I theorize that most people who are against ObamaCare have been blessed with very good health throughout their lives and just can't relate to all this fuss about the need for significant health care reform. IF there was only one or none attending the rally in a wheelchair, I wouldn't be surprised.

I saw where there were some baptist preachers preaching as well. What a shock. WWJD??

One preacher defined Natural Law as the government NOT having control over your body. But since he is for the government controlling the reproductive lives of women, he certainly is in no way for Universal Natural Law. As the preacher said: “The most precious of your private property is your person. And when the government assumes the authority and responsibility over your body, then they have gained control over your body. Elsewhere, the article had no ideas as to what to do for health care reform. Yes, promoting the free market was mentioned, but nothing as to how to stop lobbyists working for the health care industries, who try to control market conditions. Why didn't anyone simply say vote out politicians who accept campaign money from health care companies? Oh, that wouldn't go over, if it means replacing a Republican with a Democrat.

Sounds like a real stand up guy. Next he will cut your wages to make you food stamp eligible.

I would find another employer if they did that. Shows how they really value their employees..

I had to find another employer but I don't fault them...its a basic business decision, esp if the company is struggling and they are cutting costs wherever they can to keep the doors open and as many folks employed as they can