View Full Version : Shadid wants to eliminate zoo funding?



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ljbab728
07-01-2012, 11:19 PM
http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-councilman-questions-dedicated-zoo-funding/article/3689227?custom_click=pod_headline_politics

Spartan
07-01-2012, 11:43 PM
It sounds like someone in the Dark Tower is taking another stab at Shadid, this time, trying to blow his comments into something much bigger. Families like the zoo.

This will be an intriguing debate, Shadid has an excellent point. This is his best point: Arguing over how much excess funding to give the zoo, rather than arguing over how much excess funding to give to systemically stressed core services like public safety and public transit..

I think Shadid has picked a winner, even if the Dark Tower is going to pull a, "calls to Shadid for comment were not answered" ploy.

ljbab728
07-01-2012, 11:55 PM
How is a dedicated sales tax considered to be excess funding? I saw nothing "dark" about the article. I'm sure he knew his comments would be controversial. I see no reason to give him a pass for everything he says just because he's "Ed Shadid" and trying to be the fly in the ointment for the City Council. Even the widow of his deceased reporter cousin, Anthony, is none too pleased with all of his comments.

This isn't related to this thead but is worth mentioning.

http://gawker.com/anthony-shadid/


I do not approve of and will not be a part of any public discussion of Anthony's passing. It does nothing but sadden Anthony's children to have to endure repeated public discussion of the circumstances of their father's death.


While I approve of many of his ideas, I think he is somewhat of a publicity seeker who doesn't concern himself too much with consequences.

Spartan
07-02-2012, 02:15 AM
It's hard to justify a dedicated zoo sales tax in light of being unable to provide basic public transit service and public safety becoming an actual issue. PS has a dedicated sales tax, and is probably over-funded on replacement equipment and vehicles, but seriously under-manned. Not being able to provide bus service on all days of the week is also a major issue. P180 was a wreck and we need to find ways to fund 2-way conversions, a desperately needed EKG redesign, in addition to the rail quiet zone, the AICC fiasco, some roadway to the AICC if it ever opens, rescuing the boulevard, the convention center hotel, convention center budget over-runs, an operations funding mechanism for the MAPS3 projects (especially the senior centers), a downtown retail subsidy, and who knows what else that needs funding somehow. I also hope we can get to the regional rail transit system that talk is starting to heat up around, realizing the time is right for us to act for ourselves.

A zoo tax. So that instead of sleeping on concrete, exotic animals have grass to sleep on. Throw that under the bus.

poe
07-02-2012, 05:20 AM
I say leave it alone.

Bellaboo
07-02-2012, 07:24 AM
I say leave it alone.

The people overwhelmingly voted FOR this 20 years ago, just so the zoo would have a reliable source of income. Ed, don't be messing with what the people voted YES for.

HangryHippo
07-02-2012, 07:34 AM
I agree. I like Shadid, but our zoo is excellent and has been supported by the votes of the people. Leave it alone.

Just the facts
07-02-2012, 08:11 AM
It's hard to justify a dedicated zoo sales tax in light of being unable to provide basic public transit service and public safety becoming an actual issue.

650 sq miles of services. Want to solve the problem? Fix that first.

CaptDave
07-02-2012, 09:03 AM
It's hard to justify a dedicated zoo sales tax in light of being unable to provide basic public transit service and public safety becoming an actual issue. PS has a dedicated sales tax, and is probably over-funded on replacement equipment and vehicles, but seriously under-manned. Not being able to provide bus service on all days of the week is also a major issue. P180 was a wreck and we need to find ways to fund 2-way conversions, a desperately needed EKG redesign, in addition to the rail quiet zone, the AICC fiasco, some roadway to the AICC if it ever opens, rescuing the boulevard, the convention center hotel, convention center budget over-runs, an operations funding mechanism for the MAPS3 projects (especially the senior centers), a downtown retail subsidy, and who knows what else that needs funding somehow. I also hope we can get to the regional rail transit system that talk is starting to heat up around, realizing the time is right for us to act for ourselves.

A zoo tax. So that instead of sleeping on concrete, exotic animals have grass to sleep on. Throw that under the bus.

It is no more difficult to justify than basketball arenas, baseball fields, and nearly anything else in MAPS. The zoo tax was a choice by OKC citizens and has actually yielded pretty good results. You can't say that about many "improvements" undertaken by OKC.

I would like to know in what context Mr Shadid made this statement. I get the feeling he was merely illustrating a larger point and his comment has been misconstrued a bit.

(I voted in favor of all the previous MAPS initiatives by the way.)

ljbab728
07-02-2012, 09:08 AM
I would like to know in what context Mr Shadid made this statement. I get the feeling he was merely illustrating a larger point and his comment has been misconstrued a bit.

Since, according to the article, he hasn't responded to requests to elaborate, it may be a while before we find out for sure.

Urban Pioneer
07-02-2012, 09:33 AM
I think Shadid has picked a winner,

I hope he doesn't follow your political advice. lol I watched that Council meeting and I think that while his comments were limited to only a couple sentences, they could easily be construed in any direction.

I believe that the Zoo Tax is a exemplary example where a great public service is being performed and a great example of how such stable funding could enable better Police or Transit service.

adaniel
07-02-2012, 10:29 AM
To significantly tamper with something that was overwhelmingly approved by voters (like the zoo sales tax was) sets a very bad precedent for a city that has seen its fortunes rise by delivering on tax pledges.

I would be interested to see in what context he said these things. I would take Shadid as smarter than this.

king183
07-02-2012, 10:50 AM
Removing the dedicated sales tax would be a horrendous idea, and I hope that's not what Shadid intended to suggest or propose. If Shadid is, in fact, advocating removal of the tax, I would be extremely disappointed in him. That source of funding is vital for the zoo. Anyone who remembers what our zoo look like just 15 years ago know the wonders it has done for the zoo, the animals, and our city. Removing the tax would be a disaster for all three.

onthestrip
07-02-2012, 11:00 AM
The zoo is kind of like the metro library system. The libraries get a decent chunk of our property tax and I've always wondered why they got so much. For some reason I want to say $70ish dollars of my property tax bill went to the library system. Whether its good or bad, it's been interesting to see the last few years all other city services/departments cut back while the zoo and metro library system have more money than they know what to do with.

OkieDave
07-02-2012, 11:17 AM
What is curious his comments were I think like 2 weeks ago and focused as much or more on the funding of the Fairgrounds (6/11 of the 5.5% motel tax). The Zoo tax started in 1989, I think it is reasonable to revisit every 5-23 years. Seems like someone is stirring the pot. I like elected leaders looking at options and asking questions. Sacred cows maybe don't always stay sacred.

kevinpate
07-02-2012, 11:39 AM
Sacred cows maybe don't always stay sacred.

One man's sacred moo is another man's solution to hunger. Just as neither may be entirely right, is either truly wrong?

Larry OKC
07-02-2012, 11:39 AM
I would like clarification on the remarks but on the surface, what is wrong about having the voters revisit this and other supposedly dedicated taxes? Yes, it was overwhelmingly passed by voters decades ago now, but does that mean that it should continue or that voters now want it to continue? Priorities can and do change for time, especially when you are talking about decades. This tax amounts to very little in the grand scheme of the overall City Budget so to divert it for other purposes would be ill advised. But is Shadid advocating redirecting the tax or questioning if surplus funds from other areas need to go to the Zoo since it has a dedicated tax? The yearly diversion of multi-millions from another dedicated tax to the General Fund has been happening for several years now (as evidenced by the OKC Budget Reports over at OKC.gov).

Urban Pioneer
07-02-2012, 11:41 AM
It is very bad politics to even talk about the Zoo tax. If you think an intellectual argument will resonate on this issue and not turn into a Shadid versus the Animals political debate, then your badly mistaken. It obviously already is. I'm glad that he is talking about permanent solutions to public transit and other funding needs, but leave the animals out of the discussion.

Bellaboo
07-02-2012, 11:51 AM
If I remember correctly, the zoo tax is 1/8 of a cent....? If this is the case, he probably needs to look else where for funding sources.

Larry OKC
07-02-2012, 12:00 PM
Yep from OKC.gov

...Of that 3.875, the general fund of the City receives 2.00 cents (two-thirds of which goes to public safety), public safety receives an additional 0.75 cents, and the Zoo receives 0.125 (1/8th). These taxes were each approved by votes of the people, and do not have an end date. One cent on every dollar now goes to MAPS 3. Unlike the other taxes, the MAPS tax is temporary.

Just the facts
07-02-2012, 12:59 PM
So out of the total 3.875 cents publc safety gets 54% - and that isn't enough?

Hutch
07-02-2012, 01:13 PM
I watched the discussion on City Council. From my perspective, it seemed like Ed was simply trying to make the point that there's a permanent dedicated funding source for the Zoo, so why can't we have one for transit. It was a good point to make. I don't think he was seriously suggesting eliminating the Zoo's funding to pay for it. He knows it will take a lot more than that to fund an effective regional transit system.

Just as an FYI, the Governance-Finance Committee of ACOG's 2009-2010 Regional Transit Dialogue prepared a final report that provided an excellent model for creating a regional transit district and funding a regional transit system. Here' a link to that report:

2009 RTD Governance-Finance Committee Final Report (http://www.acogok.org/Programs_and_Services/Transportation_and_Data_Services/RTD/documents/final_report_GovFin.pdf)

See pages 19-22 for the recommended layout of the district and page 53 to see the annual amount of funding that would be available for the transit system based on various permanent sales tax dedications for the district. As one example, a 3/4-cent sales tax from the district would generate more than $100 million annualy for a regional transit system based on 2009 sales tax revenues. That's how we're going to be able to build a great regional transit system. Not by taking a pittance from the Zoo. Ed knows that.

BoulderSooner
07-02-2012, 01:14 PM
So out of the total 3.875 cents publc safety gets 54% - and that isn't enough?

this

OkieDave
07-02-2012, 01:38 PM
Hutch, great point, if everyone would just actually watch what he said and the context they will probably not come away thinking Shadid is anti-zoo.

CaptDave
07-02-2012, 01:39 PM
I watched the discussion on City Council. From my perspective, it seemed like Ed was simply trying to make the point that there's a permanent dedicated funding source for the Zoo, so why can't we have one for transit. It was a good point to make. I don't think he was seriously suggesting eliminating the Zoo's funding to pay for it. He knows it will take a lot more than that to fund an effective regional transit system.

THIS makes much more sense than what the Daily Oklahoman article leads the reader to believe. I had a hunch it was something like this based on what I have heard Mr Shadid say in previous meetings.

Finally, why NOT fund a regional transit authority / system in this manner? It makes perfect sense and is commonly done with great success. But that discussion belongs in another thread.....

Urban Pioneer
07-02-2012, 01:45 PM
Hutch, great point, if everyone would just actually watch what he said and the context they will probably not come away thinking Shadid is anti-zoo.

The problem for him is that everyone will not. It is bad politics to even discuss the zoo funding.

betts
07-02-2012, 04:41 PM
I think the zoo is great, I'm pleased it's improved as much as it has over the last 20 years and I think we should never downplay it's part in quality of life. However, I wouldn't mind it if we had more of a general fund with a dedicated sales tax that could be used for different quality of life/tourism-oriented projects. You could move some of that money over for a few years to help finish the Native American Cultural Center, to improve the Art Museum or do a variety of things.

bornhere
07-02-2012, 06:00 PM
I think generally speaking, dedicated sales taxes are a bad idea. They tie city budget planners' hands. It worked out OK for the zoo, but the public safety dedicated tax turned into a mess.

mugofbeer
07-02-2012, 08:44 PM
As someone who has kids and visits the zoo when I am in town, the idea of Ed Shadid trying to "fix" something that isn't in any way broken is utterly stupid. It's already been said that the voters approved the dedicated sales tax when the zoo was in danger of bankruptcy. It is an incredible shining star and is a better zoo than many, much larger cities have because of this consistent and adequate funding. Zoo's in Dallas, Ft. Worth and Denver are good, but don't have the overall, large-scale quality of the OKC Zoo. Yes, there are things that could be improved and yes, there could be more "show" animals that might attract more people, but those things will come in time. Keep the funding, keep up the quality and leave government fingers out of the pie. If Ed Shadid wants more money dedicated to some other purpose, then Ed Shadid (and Spartan) should work to find another source of revenue - or start working to raise the sales tax for some other dedicated purpose that better suits their desires.

soonerguru
07-02-2012, 09:15 PM
I truly admire Ed for his courage, passion, and intelligence, but he's occasionally a bit tone deaf politically. This is one of those times. As stated above, whether or not he was making a larger point, most people will never have the time, resources, or inclination to try and infer context -- and we can only count on the Oklahoman to occasionally serve its role. If you criticize the zoo, there will be fallout, as there will be for Ed over this now. He'll be fine in the end but needs to choose his political battles more wisely -- and needs to be conscious of the politics of what he says (he is, after all, serving in a political role).

He's the only true progressive on the Council, and he obviously has the most integrity and distance from corrupting influences, so we NEED him to be politically astute at all times.

We're counting on you, Ed!

mugofbeer
07-02-2012, 09:29 PM
being a watchdog of government is one thing, proposing something totally idiotic is another. If there was a larger context, let's hear it.

ljbab728
07-02-2012, 10:14 PM
being a watchdog of government is one thing, proposing something totally idiotic is another. If there was a larger context, let's hear it.

As we have mentioned, it would be a very simple matter for him to clarify what he meant if his comments were misconstrued.

MikeOKC
07-02-2012, 11:25 PM
As we have mentioned, it would be a very simple matter for him to clarify what he meant if his comments were miscontrued.

I agree. If The Oklahoman took liberty with Shadid's comments then he needs to step up and clarify, sooner rather than later, with the same vigor he has brought to the horseshoe.

Spartan
07-03-2012, 07:05 AM
I hope he doesn't follow your political advice. lol I watched that Council meeting and I think that while his comments were limited to only a couple sentences, they could easily be construed in any direction.

I believe that the Zoo Tax is a exemplary example where a great public service is being performed and a great example of how such stable funding could enable better Police or Transit service.

I hope he doesn't follow my political advice as well, as I want what's best for Shadid. I'm surprised that folks on here could stick up for the zoo tax, but I agree that something the citizens voted for needs to be followed through with. Citizens are idiots, however.

However, I still dislike the zoo tax and I would vote against it if given the chance. That's something I personally just can't morally rectify, considering much bigger needs out there.

OSUFan
07-03-2012, 08:24 AM
In the Oklahoman's defense from reading the article and following the reporter on Twitter it sounds like Mr. Shadid was given every opportunity to follow up on his comments and clarify his point but for whatever reason chose not too.

FritterGirl
07-03-2012, 08:52 AM
One of the commenters on the Oklahoman article brought up a good point. What is the overall economic impact of the zoo in terms of tourism and other tax revenues collected for the City? Surely it is more than the $12.5 million per year paid for vis-a-vis the dedicated tax. With families spending money in local area restaurants and tourists coming in for a weekend in Oklahoma City, where the zoo is a major tourism draw as part of the Adventure District, I would have to think it's "value" - both in perception and in economy - far exceed what citizens pay for it. Keep in mind, the Zoo is also on public land (Lincoln Park), so there is a benefit there, as well. I'd be interested in seeing a CVB report on the zoo.

Bunty
07-03-2012, 12:20 PM
Common sense tells me if the zoo would be clearing expenses and making money why keep the zoo tax? If not, keep the tax. Whatever, though, losing the tax would surely be an attractive amount to have to lose.

adaniel
07-03-2012, 12:39 PM
I agree. If The Oklahoman took liberty with Shadid's comments then he needs to step up and clarify, sooner rather than later, with the same vigor he has brought to the horseshoe.

Per Michael Kimball's (the story's author) twitter feed from this morning's council meeting:

http://twitter.com/#!/OKC_Beat


@edshadid is talking about my zoo article. He calls is "intellectually dishonest." Good time to point out he didn't return my calls.


@edshadid now saying no one questioned dedicated funding source. But he did.


I called @edshadid twice and text messaged him once about the zoo story. He did not respond. Chose to speak about me and story at meeting.

http://twitter.com/#!/OKC_Beat/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2FGPHWTfF1

You know, I don't doubt that Mr. Shadid's intentions are anything but good, but he may want to brush up on some PR/media skills.

It's in poor taste to call out a journalist publishing what you said even though you've failed to give him your side of the story.

MIKELS129
07-03-2012, 01:10 PM
I would agree but he didn't need to talk to Dr. Shadid. If he wasn't clear on particulars, he could have re watched the council meeting video; before submitting an article misrepresenting Dr. Shadid's comments.
I watched the video. He misrepresented what he said.
I agree with what he said .. I do not mind the dedicated zoo tax and feel we need a transportation dedicated tax as well.

OSUFan
07-03-2012, 01:18 PM
I would agree but he didn't need to talk to Dr. Shadid. If he wasn't clear on particulars, he could have re watched the council meeting video; before submitting an article misrepresenting Dr. Shadid's comments.
I watched the video. He misrepresented what he said.
I agree with what he said .. I do not mind the dedicated zoo tax and feel we need a transportation dedicated tax as well.

He tried to get Shadid to explain his comments and then when Shadid declined he printed a direct quote from the councilmen. “In my mind over the next year, it's time to look at the one-eighth sales tax (for) the zoo,” Shadid said. “Then we could debate how much this year of excess funds we want to give to the zoo instead of ... our core business, which is public safety.”

I'm just failing to see how the reporter messed up in this instance. I think it is pretty off putting to complain about a story like Shadid did when he refused to explain exactly what he meant.

Urban Pioneer
07-03-2012, 05:59 PM
Not really much room to think other than the Oklahoman editorial board doesn't much care for him. lol

Redirecting Oklahoma City Zoo tax revenue not a good idea
The Oklahoman Editorial | Published: July 3, 2012 http://s3.amazonaws.com/content.newsok.com/newsok/images/comment_icon.gif 13 (http://newsok.com/article/3689345#disqus_thread)

We thought Oklahoma City Councilman Ed Shadid wanted folks to get fit by walking in the great outdoors. We assume he does want this, but his carping about the dedicated sales tax for the zoo makes us wonder.


Read more: http://newsok.com/redirecting-oklahoma-city-zoo-tax-revenue-not-a-good-idea/article/3689345#ixzz1zbhadJKO

Just the facts
07-03-2012, 07:19 PM
I think the zoo is great, I'm pleased it's improved as much as it has over the last 20 years and I think we should never downplay it's part in quality of life. However, I wouldn't mind it if we had more of a general fund with a dedicated sales tax that could be used for different quality of life/tourism-oriented projects. You could move some of that money over for a few years to help finish the Native American Cultural Center, to improve the Art Museum or do a variety of things.

We do, it is called MAPS.

Snowman
07-04-2012, 06:59 AM
In Shadid's clarification he talked about if done today the zoo tax might not have been implemented the same way, noting it probably would sunset like MAPS. However from what some other have mentioned the zoo tax was more aimed toward perpetual expenses so an open ended collection makes sense. MAPS are capital improvements projects, intended only to collect the money to acquire land and build specified projects, none of the MAPS taxes try to insure a stream of revenue long term for any of those projects directly from the MAPS tax.

Maynard
07-04-2012, 11:24 AM
http://geke.us/CentralPlanning.001.jpg

Spartan
07-04-2012, 07:36 PM
Per Michael Kimball's (the story's author) twitter feed from this morning's council meeting:

http://twitter.com/#!/OKC_Beat







http://twitter.com/#!/OKC_Beat/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2FGPHWTfF1

You know, I don't doubt that Mr. Shadid's intentions are anything but good, but he may want to brush up on some PR/media skills.

It's in poor taste to call out a journalist publishing what you said even though you've failed to give him your side of the story.

At a newspaper that has had nothing but attacks against him? Did everyone forget about the laughable Don Quixote editorial.

ljbab728
07-04-2012, 09:53 PM
At a newspaper that has had nothing but attacks against him? Did everyone forget about the laughable Don Quixote editorial.

If he doesn't want to respond to the Oklahoman there are other news outlets in OKC to turn to. He doesn't have to just remain silent.

rcjunkie
07-05-2012, 03:14 AM
If he doesn't want to respond to the Oklahoman there are other news outlets in OKC to turn to. He doesn't have to just remain silent.

Unless the article was correct and he has nothing to say.

Larry OKC
07-05-2012, 07:29 AM
He tried to get Shadid to explain his comments and then when Shadid declined he printed a direct quote from the councilmen. “In my mind over the next year, it's time to look at the one-eighth sales tax (for) the zoo,” Shadid said. “Then we could debate how much this year of excess funds we want to give to the zoo instead of ... our core business, which is public safety.”

I'm just failing to see how the reporter messed up in this instance. I think it is pretty off putting to complain about a story like Shadid did when he refused to explain exactly what he meant.
The way I am reading this quote, he isn't advocating redirecting the dedicated tax from the zoo to someplace else, but where to apply the extra funds. That said, what is wrong with having the voters periodically take another look at open-ended dedicated taxes (including public safety)? Priorities, want & needs change over time. Perhaps they should be examined over time. The Zoo tax was passed how many years ago?

OSUFan
07-05-2012, 08:22 AM
The way I am reading this quote, he isn't advocating redirecting the dedicated tax from the zoo to someplace else, but where to apply the extra funds. That said, what is wrong with having the voters periodically take another look at open-ended dedicated taxes (including public safety)? Priorities, want & needs change over time. Perhaps they should be examined over time. The Zoo tax was passed how many years ago?

I have no real opinion on looking at the tax or what Shadid meant. My point was that I'm not sure why people are saying the reporter messed up. I think it looks bad for a councilman to question a reporters integrity when he refused to clear up his comments, whether that be Cornett, Shadid, Kelly or anyone else. As others have said he could have talked to the Gazette or even his own twitter feed if he didn't want to talk to the Oklahoman. Waiting a week and then calling out the reporter in a council meeting when you refused to talk to him just seems pretty bush league to me.

1972ford
07-05-2012, 11:14 AM
I beleive a reduction in the amout the zoo gets would be something good to put on the ballot(I think it does take a vote of the people to do this) maybe something like keeping the zoo's dedicated sales tax just at 75% of what it is not then allocate the other 25% for a rainy day fund or to help fund ongoing expenses incurred by MAPS projects if done properly we could phase in the cut at the zoo while building a decent balance in the other fund to start earning interest on or to get pther projects back on track.

ljbab728
07-05-2012, 09:31 PM
The way I am reading this quote, he isn't advocating redirecting the dedicated tax from the zoo to someplace else, but where to apply the extra funds. That said, what is wrong with having the voters periodically take another look at open-ended dedicated taxes (including public safety)? Priorities, want & needs change over time. Perhaps they should be examined over time. The Zoo tax was passed how many years ago?

Larry, it reads differently to me. It appears that he is basically talking about the potential of eliminating the Zoo tax and then looking at whether the zoo might qualify for any excess funds.

Of course any tax could be changed. But there has been absolutely no public outcry about the zoo tax and I've never heard it mentioned by anyone except him. As has already been mentioned OKC seems to have gotten it's money worth much better there than on most other city projects.

Doug Loudenback
07-07-2012, 04:43 AM
During the past few months, I've attempted to begin avoiding local politics unless something really special (to me) presented itself, and the Zoo does not fall into that category for me. Still, this thread calls into question the integrity of Ed Shadid, a council member I admire greatly. So, I decided to view the city council session for myself, copy it, and create a cropped version of his comments.

Unfortunately, the City's website is, for me, producing errors when I attempt to get to particular council meetings and videos, and I am unable to access them. When that changes, I'll do what I just said and have 1st hand information for all to evaluate what he did say, whether the Oklahoman has taken his remarks out of context, or whatever. If any of you have direct links to the council meeting at which he made his zoo comments, I'd appreciate the link.

Hutch
07-07-2012, 09:43 AM
It's important to point out that for those trying to determine the nature and intent of Ed Shadid's comments and whether they were taken out of context, you can't just simply consider a few minutes of the June 19th Council meeting where he made the comments. You need to also go back and view all of his and those of other Councilmembers regarding the issue of adding Sunday bus service in Oklahoma City at the June 12th Council meeting.

In addition, you need to read the Oklahoman articles covering those meetings and not just the article concerning Ed Shadid's zoo funding comments on July 2nd.

Here's a link to the Oklahoman articles covering the two Council meetings:

Oklahoman - June 13, 2012 - Sunday Bus Service (http://newsok.com/article/3683921)

Oklahoman - June 20, 2012 - Sunday Bus Service (http://newsok.com/article/3686035)

If you watch both of those Council meetings, it's pretty clear that Ed Shadid's comments and suggestions on June 19th about taking a look at how the City might be able to adjust certain permanent revenue streams, such as the dedicated funding for the Zoo or the Fairgrounds or the Hotel/Motel tax, were a continuation of the bigger discussion that began on June 12th and primarily about trying to find some way to come up with the funding needed to provide Sunday bus service in Oklahoma City.

Double Edge
07-07-2012, 01:31 PM
He explains his position...

http://edshadid.org/examining-okc-dedicated-zoo-and-fairgrounds-sales-tax/

rcjunkie
07-07-2012, 02:02 PM
He explains his position...

http://edshadid.org/examining-okc-dedicated-zoo-and-fairgrounds-sales-tax/

Can you say "back track" or "CYA"

onthestrip
07-07-2012, 02:32 PM
I think he makes great points in his blog post. The fact of the matter is the zoo is flush with cash and just a portion of their yearly allotment from sales tax could provide bus service on sunday or something else. I like his idea of possibly raising the hotel/motel tax. Give the extra proceeds of that to the zoo or to the city to fund these needed bus and/or public safety upgrades.

And I dont see any back tracking rcjunkie, this is the first time he has made it clear what he meant when the Oklahoman took one statement of his and ran with it.

Hutch
07-07-2012, 02:41 PM
Councilmembers, whether in Oklahoma City, Norman, Edmond, or elsewhere, are usually citizens of varying backgrounds who decide for different reasons to get involved in trying to help better the community. They are typically not politicians and are not necessarily skilled in how to carefully maneuver through the public, political and press land mines when expressing opinions, raising questions, making suggestions or challenging the status quo. They certainly don't have press secretaries and professional handlers to keep them from accidentally stepping on mines or to help them clean up the mess when they set one off. Maybe that explains why some on Council tend to just sit there most of the time and offer little in the way of comments, opinions or suggestions.

I'd much rather see Councilmembers who are actively engaged and willing to stick their neck out and try to find ways to help the improve the community, even if they occassionally step in it, than unengaged, old-guard curmudgeons or silent-but-crafty, good ol' boy special interest representatives who perpetuate the status quo and do little to cause real beneficial change for the citizenry and the community, whether I agree with all of their positions or not.

Doug Loudenback
07-07-2012, 03:35 PM
Not that I'm ignoring this, but I'm still waiting on the City Council agenda area of the city's website to be running again. As it is, I'm still getting the message shown below when I attempt to access that area which is also the place to view past city council meetings videos ...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/okcwebsite_council_agenda_error.jpg

I have read what Ed Shadid said at http://edshadid.org/examining-okc-dedicated-zoo-and-fairgrounds-sales-tax/ and have compared that with what was said in the Oklahoman article by Michael Kimball and the Oklahoman's editorial and, at first blush, it sounds as though two ships are passing by each other undetected, if not silently, in the night. I'm reserving judgment until I can access the appropriate city council meeting, and then do some thinking about the matter which I'll defer until I have access to the council meeting comments.

Doug Loudenback
07-07-2012, 03:48 PM
Can you say "back track" or "CYA"
Can you say, "Here's the proof?" You seem to have a positive grasp of what your evidence is ... and I'd like the opportunity to review it.

Doug Loudenback
07-08-2012, 02:44 PM
After contacting Frances Kersey, City Clerk, yesterday, about the on-line City Council agenda/video problem, mentioned above, thanks to her the on-line links to city council agendas and council meeting videos are once again available on-line.

I've downloaded the 6/12 and 6/19 council meeting videos and am in the process extracting relevant portions and saving them to YouTube videos which relate to this discussion.

That process takes a bit of time. Videos will follow.