12092

12092

Good information. Thank you Tundra.

RAISING ROOFS: Oklahoma will need to raise more roofs by 2020 | News OK (http://newsok.com/raising-roofs-oklahoma-will-need-to-raise-more-roofs-by-2020/article/5487304)

High-end hustle: Prices fall in Gaillardia, while Nichols Hills sees gains | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2016/04/07/high-end-hustle-prices-fall-in-gaillardia-while-nichols-hills-sees-gains-real-estate/)

http://newsok.com/strong-neighborhoods-initiative-produces-results-in-oklahoma-city/article/5507034

http://journalrecord.com/2016/08/22/lots-of-lots-but-no-hurry-to-build-real-estate/

Lots of lots, but no hurry to build homes

By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record August 22, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – National Association of Home Builders economist Robert Dietz said the lack of developed lots has slowed home construction in the United States.

That’s not the case in the metro, though rural areas have had that problem.

In Oklahoma City, home sites are now in abundance, but that wasn’t the case two years ago, said Caleb McCaleb, owner and president of McCaleb Homes.

“We were actually in a lot shortage two years ago because our economy was so hot,” McCaleb said. “That was when oil was $100 a barrel. Now, there is an oversupply of finished lots.”

He said the process from preliminary plat to final plat to roads is lengthy. Builders started platting but have since backed off building the homes while they wait out the oil price downturn. When work begins again, he said he hopes other builders will communicate more about where they’re working.

“In other markets, there are companies that do surveys of finished lots, oncoming lots, those going through the preliminary plat stage and final plat stage,” he said. “We need better information. You have a lot of developers and banks out there, and you can get an oversupply of home development too quick.”

In rural areas, having the land isn’t the problem. It’s getting the infrastructure to the land that can be an issue, said Brent Kisling, executive director of the Enid Regional Development Authority. He said some cities in Garfield County are considering incentivizing developers, with utility extensions being part of the incentive packages.

Dietz said the national organization has heard from builders that a lack of action by city government is delaying land development and construction cycles. He said regulatory burdens are continuously rising. Today, regulatory burdens make up 25 percent of a home’s final purchase price, a cost that has risen 29 percent in the last 25 years.

Kisling said he’s seen firsthand the benefits of infrastructure development. The city needed apartment units, and a developer was interested in building a 200-unit complex, but needed a road, which the city agreed to build. With that work, a Wal-Mart Neighborhood Market has been constructed nearby, as well as another unannounced retail development.

“We may end up generating more sales tax than what it cost to put in that road,” Kisling said.

Besides a lack of home sites, a labor decline is slowing construction. Dietz said his group’s members listed labor vacancy as the No. 1 business challenge in 2015, and it will be the same problem in 2016.

“We are seeing growing housing demand, and we should have an opportunity for a lot of building growth,” Dietz said. “But we don’t see that. Part of the answer is the constraints on the supply of the market.”

Right now, it's a buyer's market. There are several very nice houses in our general area for sale, but some of these homeowners are out of touch with the going rates. Virtually every house for which I've picked up a flyer or talked to the seller is overpriced - and it doesn't take a lot of effort to review comps or estimated prices to see it. The killer in some areas is where you have a *very* nice house in a nice area, but the house is now a bit "overbuilt" or "over-featured" but can't command the price those features might imply in a better-suited neighborhood....as is so often the case, you're better off with a smaller, suitably-built house in a generally larger area than the biggest, most extravagant house....

It may seem like a buyers market but the MLS data for the past few months has shown that homes are going between 98-99% of asking price on average. Which shows that the majority are pricing right, but not a buyers market where things are getting stolen per se. MLS wide there is a 4 .5 month supply (or absorption rate) but it's that low because homes under ~$200K (in good and bad areas) in the city proper are flying off the shelves. Anything in the burbs over $250-300K are struggling right now. Some neighborhoods have years of supply since nothing is moving. I have a listing in NE Edmond that's in a good area, priced aggressively due to competition, built in 2014, but haven't had one showing in 20 days. The other realtors I've spoken to in the area are experiencing it as well. Not a good time to be greedy on the sellers side in the burbs.

^

I just bought a house and I think your assessment is exactly right.

Houses around $200K are still moving fast. There are a bunch of them around that price and the ones in nicer neighborhoods and/or have been nicely remodeled go quickly.

In fact, I bought my house before it was even placed on the MLS. I was monitoring neighborhoods I liked and came across this house that was clearly being renovated. I found the owners (essentially house flippers) through the assessors site and we struck a deal.

This is over by Penn Square and anything under $250K in this area seems to sell very quickly.

^

I just bought a house and I think your assessment is exactly right.

Houses around $200K are still moving fast. There are a bunch of them around that price and the ones in nicer neighborhoods and/or have been nicely remodeled go quickly.

In fact, I bought my house before it was even placed on the MLS. I was monitoring neighborhoods I liked and came across this house that was clearly being renovated. I found the owners (essentially house flippers) through the assessors site and we struck a deal.

This is over by Penn Square and anything under $250K in this area seems to sell very quickly.

I can attest to this too. I've been looking for houses in that range for the past year or two and you have to move quickly if you want to have a shot. I made an offer for full ask within 6 hours of a house going on the market 2 months ago in the Crown Heights area and they had several offers matching mine and eventually over ask within 24 hours.

A house on my street at 42nd and McKinley was recently flipped and had a contract in 15 days. Listed at ~195K, $137/sqft. We bought ours a year ago, though the quality of flip was a little lower imo, for 102/sqft. So, things in the core still seem to be moving well. Makes me pretty happy to see the value increase :)

It seems there are a lot of people looking in the $175-$250K range in the closer in neighborhoods and anything decent goes fast.

There have been some pretty small houses near me with 1-car garages that have sold well north of $150K.

My neighborhood is mainly 60's ranch houses and this is about as close in as you can find them. I love those houses because they are very easy to remodel to an open floorplan and are built on a slab foundation, so you don't have all those old house headaches.

I'll post pictures of my house at some point but it's pretty awesome. Completely wide open with a huge new kitchen; was taken back to the studs. New roof, electrical, HVAC, garage doors, windows, baths and hardwood floors. And on a large lot.

And I'm literally 8 minutes from downtown and just as close to friends, families and meetings out north.

Great value and great location and as much as I want to be downtown, it's going to be very hard to beat what I have now, especially considering my tiny mortgage.

especially considering my tiny mortgage.

I bet that's one of the biggest perks in moving from SoCal to OKC.

Just for reference I have my own search set up for potential rental properties. The area I am focusing on is NW Expressway up to Turnpike and Hefner Parkway over to western, some spots around Penn Sq, and around 36th and Western. My parameters are $135,000 and under with no REO/Short Sales. I have 42 total properties I am following. 7 are active, 35 are pending. Most go within a few weeks. Pretty impressive.

I bet that's one of the biggest perks in moving from SoCal to OKC.

Haha... Absolutely!

My house here is bigger, nicer and on a much bigger lot and it cost me about 1/4 what I paid out there, and I lived in what was considered a semi-affordable area. However, no mountain or beach view here. :)

It's not only the mortgage but having a ton of money tied up through down payment. I was able to free that up and drastically reduce my monthly costs.

I posted elsewhere that I was worried about utilities here and how that might offset some of the savings but they have worked out to be pretty equal, as electric is much higher here due to the need to run a/c but water is much cheaper, so everything should pretty much even out over the course of a year.

I've got my acreage home on the market, no calls in over 2 weeks. So yah the market is slowing way down on properties over $300K

A realtor friend posted that the central OK sales price average is $155k. Seems like what is moving the fastest out by me in the SWOKC/Yukon/Mustang area is anything below $250k. The neighborhoods like Morgan Creek with homes predominately in the $300k+ range construction has come to a virtual standstill.

For anyone who loves sprawl, besides me ;), there is a 1,500 home development in the works on NW between Kilpatrick area and Piedmont.

Aaannnnddd the unaffordable housing problem is starting to take root in OKC. This is a good problem to have I guess depending on how you look at it.

Some really surprising figures in here such as how OKC will have median rents in 15 years that will rival where Los Angeles and Oakland are today.

http://m.newsok.com/article/5549508

Aaannnnddd the unaffordable housing problem is starting to take root in OKC. This is a good problem to have I guess depending on how you look at it.

Some really surprising figures in here such as how OKC will have median rents in 15 years that will rival where Los Angeles and Oakland are today.

http://m.newsok.com/article/5549508


Panda,. Why is this a good thing again?

Panda,. Why is this a good thing again?
It's not that it is a good thing, but it points to the direction the city is going. It's a consequence of a good problem which is growth. I'd rather have OKC see higher home prices and be growing than not. I don't know how you can have one without the other.

It's not that it is a good thing, but it points to the direction the city is going. It's a consequence of a good problem which is growth. I'd rather have OKC see higher home prices and be growing than not. I don't know how you can have one without the other.

Could we have supply equal demand and prices/rents match inflation? It says in the article that most of the new stock is designed for the luxury market.

Also I have obsevered alot of out of state money flowing in to purchase up SFHs and raising the price. I have often wondered what the pur has/rental market would be like if out of state landlords didn't own so much real estate in Oklahoma City.

That would be ideal but what cities has that happened in? Denver, Austin, and Portland all seem to be indicators as to where OKC is going. Look at every major city. I agree with you, but do you think that will happen?

That's actually sort of surprising considering all of the housing and apartment developments being built around the city and the rate we're growing (roughly 100,000 per decade). But, yeah, it's a sign of growth.

That would be ideal but what cities has that happened in? Denver, Austin, and Portland all seem to be indicators as to where OKC is going. Look at every major city. I agree with you, but do you think that will happen?

They don't have to be indicators. Those cites can serve as warnings and examples to be learned from. Since our growth is young, we can be proactive to prevent such affordable housing woes. I don't know how this would work practically or financially but we need to be building housing at a rapid clip and densely, so that as the city grows we can accommodate all citizens and not leave our poorest (and if we go the way of the cites you mentioned, the middle class) out to dry. The reason housing in those cities - especially urban housing - is so expensive it that they just don't have enough of it and are scrambling to build. We should look ahead and start developing strategies to build more housing stock so that we can avoid the crisis that these other cities are dealing with.

OKC's Downtown/Midtown does have ample dense residential. There is some solid vacancy in both. I think in the next 2-3 years we will see the "premium" for these downtown properties (see Maywood, Metropolitan, Steelyard, Lift, Edge) begin to lose steam. Instead it will morph more into a competitive market that actually requires developers and lease managements to "sell" their property. Whereas before and currently - just offering anything downtown or in midtown with amenities was easy money.

They don't have to be indicators. Those cites can serve as warnings and examples to be learned from. Since our growth is young, we can be proactive to prevent such affordable housing woes. I don't know how this would work practically or financially but we need to be building housing at a rapid clip and densely, so that as the city grows we can accommodate all citizens and not leave our poorest (and if we go the way of the cites you mentioned, the middle class) out to dry. The reason housing in those cities - especially urban housing - is so expensive it that they just don't have enough of it and are scrambling to build. We should look ahead and start developing strategies to build more housing stock so that we can avoid the crisis that these other cities are dealing with.

Are there any high density affordable (>200k) condos in the core of those cities?

Are there any high density affordable (>200k) condos in the core of those cities?

idk, but I do know that those cites are struggling to keep up with the demand no matter the quality. Even very low end housing in the burbs are ridiculously expensive. Pair the cost of living with the high price of commuting a long distance and you have a situation where many many folks can barely afford to live.

In OKC we have ample and cheap living if you make a decent living (like $40000 + a year). But we are already behind in housing for folks who make less than that. OKC is one of the most sprawling, low density major metros in the nation so transportation cost is also a huge burden for the poor here. We are going to have a real challenge ahead of us if we don't act to solve this problem early on and learn from the portlands, denvers, and austins.

If we focus on increasing the quantity of units near the core and enable alternate transportation modes, we can subvert the issue to an extent. I'm thinking about this from a purely ideological pov. I don't know how these ideas would be implemented realistically. That being said, this is a huge issue that will creep up on us if we aren't careful so it should be studied.

Fortunately, there are still hundreds of infill opportunities in and near the core and land and building costs are still pretty reasonable.

I live less than 5 miles from the CBD in a house that was completely remodeled inside and out (open floorplan, everything new) and still paid only a bit over $100 / SF, which is amazing considering most other housing markets. It's also the reason I moved outside of downtown because I wasn't going to pay 3 or 4 times that, especially for little or no yard. As it is, I can be anywhere in the core very quickly and haven't missed living downtown nearly as much as I had anticipated.

There is also an almost unlimited amount of older housing stock -- both homes and multi-family -- that is still affordable and that can be easily remodeled / upgraded. Especially west of Classen, all the way up to 50th. Tons and tons of good houses in decent neighborhoods which are all improving.

My family moved to Guthrie back in December after a months long search for a larger home with historic character that didn't cost $400K or more. We couldn't find anything in OKC proper and the suburbs aren't my thing either. While using the realtor.com app I stumbled upon homes for sale in Guthrie and was amazed at what you can get for your money. While I have a 35-40 minute commute (mostly highway), we were able to buy a newly remodeled/restored 2600 square foot 1920 Victorian home on a huge corner lot for less than $200K one mile from downtown Guthrie.

The historic downtown is a lesson in good urban design and architecture with four contiguous blocks of mid-rise mixed use charm. There is not a single neighborhood or district in OKC with as much preserved urban form. There are a growing number of coffee shops and third places in Guthrie along with concerts and festivals year round. There are a bunch of young couples that have moved up there and are flipping houses Fixer Upper style. https://www.instagram.com/honeycanhammer/

If you are looking for something affordable and walkable with an authentic Oklahoma vibe, allow me to shamelessly plug Guthrie as an extension of the OKC metro area.

They don't have to be indicators. Those cites can serve as warnings and examples to be learned from. Since our growth is young, we can be proactive to prevent such affordable housing woes. I don't know how this would work practically or financially but we need to be building housing at a rapid clip and densely, so that as the city grows we can accommodate all citizens and not leave our poorest (and if we go the way of the cites you mentioned, the middle class) out to dry. The reason housing in those cities - especially urban housing - is so expensive it that they just don't have enough of it and are scrambling to build. We should look ahead and start developing strategies to build more housing stock so that we can avoid the crisis that these other cities are dealing with.I agree with you, but wouldn't you say this is more wishful thinking that being realistic? The only reason I say that is are there any cities out there that have grown considerably and kept housing costs low?

I agree with you, but wouldn't you say this is more wishful thinking that being realistic? The only reason I say that is are there any cities out there that have grown considerably and kept housing costs low?

Totally, that's why I said that I was being idealistic and didn't know how we could put the ideas into practice.

Hopefully, by starting the conversation while we have some breathing room, we can work out how to solve some of these problems. In some ways it's a blessing for OKC that we had a period of stagnation so that we can use the other cites in america as a case studies. Just because bigger cites haven't been able to overcome this challenge doesn't mean we can't.

I agree with you, but wouldn't you say this is more wishful thinking that being realistic? The only reason I say that is are there any cities out there that have grown considerably and kept housing costs low?

Dallas and Houston have pretty reasonable housing prices, especially for their populations.

Like it or not, those are probably the closest corollaries to OKC.

Aren't housing starts way down the last couple of years?

Aren't housing starts way down the last couple of years?

I think part of the problem is everyone wants there area to be the next Nichols Hills and not the next .... Well I could put some areas there but that would be rude. But something like del city I suppose. It

Aren't housing starts way down the last couple of years?

They had been but the numbers are up quite a bit for the first part of 2017.

It seems to be picking back up as there are a number of new housing developments going up. Especially in the southwest part of the city around Yukon and Mustang; but in OKC itself.

I've maintained a spreadsheet of Mesta Park home sales, and remodeled/updated homes are selling about $170psf average. There naturally is a decent variance, depending on where you are in the neighborhood. Houses closer to the park and to the southeast are pushing $200psf.

Also, the best thing for affordability is to limit the restrictions on density, especially in the close-in neighborhoods surrounding the urban core. If I had my way, every single one of those neighborhoods (even MP & HH) would be zoned to allow at least 3-4 units per lot. There are a bunch of small, old, houses frankly not worth saving that are being remodeled at juiced up valuations because supply is being artificially restricted. This is especially the case in Classen-Ten-Penn near the Plaza and in between Uptown and the Paseo.

If denser infill was allowed to be developed across large swaths of the city's traditional neighborhoods, it would dramatically help overall affordability and reduce displacement from gentrification. At the very least, ADUs/garage apartments should be allowed by right city-wide.

I say all this as a Mesta Park resident who lives in a house that honestly should have been torn down years ago and replaced by a small walkup apartment building.

Also, the best thing for affordability is to limit the restrictions on density, especially in the close-in neighborhoods surrounding the urban core. If I had my way, every single one of those neighborhoods (even MP & HH) would be zoned to allow at least 3-4 units per lot. There are a bunch of small, old, houses frankly not worth saving that are being remodeled at juiced up valuations because supply is being artificially restricted. This is especially the case in Classen-Ten-Penn near the Plaza and in between Uptown and the Paseo.

If denser infill was allowed to be developed across large swaths of the city's traditional neighborhoods, it would dramatically help overall affordability and reduce displacement from gentrification. At the very least, ADUs/garage apartments should be allowed by right city-wide.

I say all this as a Mesta Park resident who lives in a house that honestly should have been torn down years ago and replaced by a small walkup apartment building.I'm not trying to take shots you, but density will not make housing affordable.

http://www.debunkingportland.com/densitywon't.html

http://www.kennedycommission.org/includes/mythsnfacts.pdf

https://psmag.com/social-justice/illusion-local-zoning-greater-density-will-fail-make-housing-affordable-85313

https://tcf.org/content/commentary/short-run-density-alone-wont-solve-affordable-housing-crisis/

That is not to say I don't want to see more density in OKC. I agree with you here, I'd love to see row homes and micro apartment buildings surrounding the core like Philadelphia or Chicago currently have.

Thanks for sharing those. I think you're missing two key points though.

1) Older housing stock is generally cheaper than newer (at least when supply is able to keep up)
2) Not all density is the same (big big difference in a duplex and a high rise apartment tower)

Yes, new housing complexes built recently will be more expensive than those that are older. Tastes change; amenities-desired evolve; newer buildings are typically more comfortable and nicer. That is why it is critically important to keep increasing supply where there is demand over time and not in short bursts. The problem is that we've (nationally) limited many types of supply in recent decades, which has come back to bite us big time.
Houston (as of recent) is a great example of what adequate supply can do: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9yWxbZXUAI5h9j.jpg
LA also demonstrates what can happen when you restrict supply (I'm sure you know what prices have done over this same time): https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2DyzuDUsAEtTa_.jpg
Same with NYC (zoning severely restricted supply not too long before the big run-up in prices):
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C8MrzGCXYAABjdQ.jpg
Vancouver shows very well what happens when you allow looser supply for certain types of units but restrict others: http://www.news1130.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/sites/9/2016/02/02/rebgv.jpg

What you allow to be built dramatically affects overall pricing. Simply put, smaller multifamily units are cheaper to build and rent out than large apartment/condo projects: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-30/america-needs-small-apartment-buildings-nobody-builds-them

Bottom line: increasing supply over a wide swath of a municipality and wide spectrum of housing types keeps prices in check over time.

This is especially the case in Classen-Ten-Penn near the Plaza and in between Uptown and the Paseo.

I agree with all of your post but particularly this. A lot of the close-in market is bubbly right now, but CTP absolutely screams "bubble" to me.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-homebuilders-race-to-end-2017-coast-into-2018/article/5586503

The part of town I really worry about is the East of I35 and Covell area. The new homes out there are going for ~$150 to up to $170/ft. To me they are way up there on price because the potential of the area is already built in. If you plan to buy out there, but move within 5-10 years you will get HAMMERED when you sell. So much better value in other parts of the north Metro. Quality of construction seems to be lacking as well from what I have seen.

The part of town I really worry about is the East of I35 and Covell area. The new homes out there are going for ~$150 to up to $170/ft. To me they are way up there on price because the potential of the area is already built in. If you plan to buy out there, but move within 5-10 years you will get HAMMERED when you sell. So much better value in other parts of the north Metro. Quality of construction seems to be lacking as well from what I have seen.

Construction quality is an issue just about everywhere, particularly where lots of "questionable" builders flock to areas where the margins are really attractive. The only way any buyer can have a semblance of hope is to go out and look at homes under construction for a given builder. Sadly, way too many customers simply look at a beautifully finished home with lots of eye candy, and just assume the bones are comparable. Some of the cheapest construction tricks I've seen have been in the highest-dollar homes. You simply cannot judge by a completed home. That's why a lot of landowners will attempt to limit new development to only a select few builders they know personally or have an established reputation...

Article about the hot housing market. This is a national trend.

https://kfor.com/news/local/homebuyers-struggle-amid-oklahomas-hot-housing-market/

The house next to me went up for sale last week, had multiple offers above asking price, and was under contract in about 3 days.

I bet 20 different people came by to look at it in that short time.

Very glad I own right now.

One home in our neighborhood that I would consider an ugly duckling sold in a week. The previous time it was for sale it took 2 years to sell and owners lost a ton. Just sold after the new owners has it for a year, painted the outside and made close to 75k. Weird market.

Yeah, in San Antonio right now the housing supply is at a record low because people are coming in from out of state and buying with cash. Homes are going 20-40k above asking on average. It’s wild.

Just found this article.

https://www.kens5.com/article/syndication/podcasts/commerce-street/record-low-supply-of-homes-and-rising-prices-in-hot-sa-real-estate-market-podcast/273-7f9e9ee8-5451-4129-ba30-e8e0f3164cdf


Lopez said that record low supply of homes is astonishing considering the size of the San Antonio area.

"There's only about about 2,000 homes on the market right now in this county," Lopez said. "We're actually, as you know, the seventh largest city in the nation. And so we've got over a million people with only 2,000 homes on the market. We're at a less than a month supply right where the average norm is supposed to at six months [supply]."

My neighborhood is getting expensive

The house behind us went up for sale on Friday in NWOKC (two days ago). They had 26 offers after the first day of showings, including from several out of state corporations. It's not a fixer upper either.

Just had some friends in Denver bid $90K over asking price and waived the right to inspection and appraisal.

Still lost out as the house drew 28 offers in 3 days.

This is a bubble right? We will have another crash of some sort? I know my house is way over valued right now. No way it has gone this high up since we have lived here

Things will level out when the supply chain (for lumber, etc.) gets back up to full speed.

Just a temporary housing shortage because of that.

That said, apart from short-term ups and downs, homes always go up in value over time.

I bought my house by OCCC for 91,500 in 2018. It was appraised at 93,500. Early last year, I refinanced and it was appraised at 98,500. I can't imagine what it would appraise at today. My guess is at the very least 105k

A prime example of the Red Hot Texas market, a home listed in the affluent Southlake suburb of FW sold for $300K over the asking price! It was listed as $1 million dollars and sold for $1.3 million. Interesting enough, appraisals are not keeping up with the price hikes. Also, in DFW, there are lots of cash offers which saves on $$ no closing costs etc.. Many buyers are getting priced out of the market. Also, with all the major corporate relocations to the DFW area, this is also causing a supply and demand issue.

A prime example of the Red Hot Texas market, a home listed in the affluent Southlake suburb of FW sold for $300K over the asking price! It was listed as $1 million dollars and sold for $1.3 million. Interesting enough, appraisals are not keeping up with the price hikes. Also, in DFW, there are lots of cash offers which saves on $$ no closing costs etc.. Many buyers are getting priced out of the market. Also, with all the major corporate relocations to the DFW area, this is also causing a supply and demand issue.

Imagine paying that much money to live in freaking DALLAS. Joke's on them.

Eventually Dallas will cost as much as LA without any of the appeal of LA.

Imagine paying that much money to live in freaking DALLAS. Joke's on them.

Eventually Dallas will cost as much as LA without any of the appeal of LA. Agree. LA has the Hollywood Hills, sweeping canyons overlooking the Pacific Ocean! The weather is great and you can grow anything out in Southern California. Beautiful areas such as Pacific Palisades, Bel Aire, Beverly Hills and nice suburbs live Culver City. What Texas has going for them is a great business climate unlike California, no State Income Tax, unlike California, no taxes on food/groceries. California companies are moving to DFW and Austin in groves because of the cost of doing business is much cheaper, however, cost of living is becoming an "growing issue" in DFW. I give accolades to DFW for being a clean, modern city with thriving suburbs like Plano, Frisco, Prosper, Southlake. Would like to see OKC grab a little bit of these companies and make the city more prosperous and desirable. To me, OKC, my hometown is still a big overgrown cowtown and needs to be cleaned up. OKC is too dirty for me.

I agree about OKC. It is an extremely ugly city unfortunately. It has been changing for the better recently and has become more lively. I only expect this to get better with MAPS 4. Great things are ahead for OKC.