View Full Version : City Budget Surplus



ljbab728
06-18-2012, 11:21 PM
What to do, what to do.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-council-faces-choice-with-projected-1.3-million-surplus/article/3685595

Snowman
06-18-2012, 11:48 PM
Didn't they just have a presentation a month or two ago that wee need to start planning for the extra costs of the police/fire jobs that were added back recently on a grant that will only only be available over a limited time frame.

JohnH_in_OKC
06-19-2012, 06:33 AM
If OKC is going to live up to its big league city mantra, we've got to establish Sunday bus service. Our disabled and economically disadvantaged folk NEED this service. We citizens have a responsibility to take care of each other.

kevinpate
06-19-2012, 10:13 AM
I was surprised the cost to add 52 additional days of bus service was so high.

Larry OKC
06-19-2012, 01:55 PM
How much is it? I wouldn't be surprised too much if you are talking about adding Sunday service to all routes, that means more gas, maint., employees and associated expenses. If we are talking only about limited routes, then costs can be mitigated but they will still be there.

kevinpate
06-19-2012, 06:41 PM
Larry the DOK article says adding Sunday service for a year is 1.47 million, or slightly more than the 1.3 million available surplus (the balance to come from other funds, at least initially.)

ljbab728
06-19-2012, 11:16 PM
Let's think about this for a little longer.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-council-puts-off-decision-on-extra-1.3m-wants-further-study/article/3685892?custom_click=pod_headline_politics

Spartan
06-20-2012, 12:34 AM
Shadid was suggesting that elimination of the NW Expressway routes (trying to push consolidating the service area) could provide funding for service for the folks who need it more.

Cocaine
06-20-2012, 09:52 PM
Yeah if they do add Sunday service they may have to not do it on all route's. I didn't think it would cost that much either.

Plutonic Panda
06-21-2012, 03:17 AM
Fix the capitol!

rcjunkie
06-21-2012, 03:50 AM
If OKC is going to live up to its big league city mantra, we've got to establish Sunday bus service. Our disabled and economically disadvantaged folk NEED this service. We citizens have a responsibility to take care of each other.

I couldn't agree more, however, if you want to help, do it by donating your time and/money, the City can't continue pouring money into something that loses millions each year.

rcjunkie
06-21-2012, 03:51 AM
Fix the capitol!

But my friend, the Capitol is a State building, not a City building.

Snowman
06-21-2012, 08:07 AM
Fix the capitol!

Plus the capital needs like 160 million (if they stay on budget)

SOUTHSIDE GIRL
06-21-2012, 09:59 AM
Fix the out laying streets coming into downtown, along with neighboorhood streets. Some have just been patched and repatched for years.

1972ford
06-21-2012, 01:23 PM
spend 50k on disc golf baskets for 5 new courses on city land and contact me or the disc golf association for the labor in installing them. if they really want bang for the buck we could raise matching funds within a year

Plutonic Panda
06-21-2012, 02:46 PM
But my friend, the Capitol is a State building, not a City building. Yeah I your right I just think that the capitol needs repaired BAD.
It's an embrassment.

rcjunkie
06-21-2012, 06:00 PM
Fix the out laying streets coming into downtown, along with neighboorhood streets. Some have just been patched and repatched for years.

1.3 million will rebuild about 1/2 mile of a major 4 lane street.

JohnH_in_OKC
06-23-2012, 11:13 PM
I couldn't agree more, however, if you want to help, do it by donating your time and/money, the City can't continue pouring money into something that loses millions each year.

You forget that our police and fire departments have never paid for themselves. They are necessary civic services. Public transportation for the poor, the disabled, the eco-smart and the retired (like myself) is also a necessary civic service/responsibility and will never come close to paying for itself. In fact, if we had to pay for our streets and highways ourselves, we would still be driving on dirt roads! EVERY highway would be a turnpike. Every bridge would charge a toll. Our roads don't pay for themselves -- our taxes do.

I do have an insured car, but I try to split my transportation costs with our OKC public transit service. A bus ride often takes twice as long to get to your destination, but bus and trolley rides can be a fun adventure, save big bucks, and eliminate cars & pollution from our roads. I have traveled by public transit--subway, train, trolley, & bus all over Europe, Eastern Europe, Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, the U.S. and North Africa. (I also lived in Europe for 3 years.)

Our international visitors have said terrible things about Oklahoma City's public transit. (Our downtown free trolley service, however, gets rave reviews from our national & international visitors.)

Oklahoma City has a responsibility to all its citizens and to our national & international visitors to provide public transit, not only because every other major city in the world does this, but because it is the right thing to do.

John Hite, retired, Oklahoma City resident & public transit supporter

ljbab728
06-23-2012, 11:26 PM
Well said, John. The city simply can't make spending decisions only on what makes or loses money. How much direct income does the city make on the millions they spend for road improvements?

Spartan
06-24-2012, 12:24 AM
If OKC is going to live up to its big league city mantra, we've got to establish Sunday bus service. Our disabled and economically disadvantaged folk NEED this service. We citizens have a responsibility to take care of each other.

I couldn't agree more, however, if you want to help, do it by donating your time and/money, the City can't continue pouring money into something that loses millions each year.

So why don't we just get rid of Metro Transit altogether. I think Lima, Peru provides a good model we can follow after ditching public transit, where if any Joe (or Jose) owns a van he can privately run public transit sans any safety or efficiency standards whatsoever. Deregulate, privatize, kick the poor to the curb, right?

http://images.travelpod.com/users/samkirsop/sams-gap-year.1208207700.micro.gif

Maybe some churches would be so kind to run their vans up and down the busier bus corridors, like 23rd.

betts
06-24-2012, 08:26 AM
Do we have the money to extend the canal? I haven't noticed any progress on that front, and wondered if it was due to budget issues. The quiet zone might be nice too. As I've said, I don't care for myself, but I'm sure the threat of train noise is offputting to some. Those are things I'd like to see done, although the fair thing would be to say it should go to the transit department.

Snowman
06-24-2012, 11:29 AM
Do we have the money to extend the canal? I haven't noticed any progress on that front, and wondered if it was due to budget issues. The quiet zone might be nice too. As I've said, I don't care for myself, but I'm sure the threat of train noise is offputting to some. Those are things I'd like to see done, although the fair thing would be to say it should go to the transit department.

If you mean the extension between the canal and the river yes from the 2007 bonds, they have still been working on finalizing the proposal for bids over the last few months, other than that I am not aware of any in the budget for canal extension.

Larry OKC
06-25-2012, 08:37 AM
Betts: are you talking about the proposed Canal extension that they tried to get included in MAPS 3? That was estimated to run around $25 million IIRC. Speaking of which, Blair had mentioned a while back there was a good chunk of money in need of a project, whatever happened with that?

Snowman
06-25-2012, 06:36 PM
no, I was talking about the part that goes under i40. Even though it is called Zone G of the canal, it is actually extending the river and trails to the canal.

king183
06-26-2012, 09:26 AM
Why would we spend this one-time surprlus on recurring costs, like Sunday bus service (that precisely 7 people will use) or more police (who I assume will be on the job more than one year)? That's irresponsible fiscal planning. If you want to expand bus service or add police, then you need to put it in the operating budget.

Since this is one-time money, we should use it for a one-time expenditure or put it into a reserve fund. The quiet zone on the railroad tracks that was needed for development; putting it back into P180 to finish it as originally planned; fast-tracking the conversion of Hudson and Walker to two-way streets; extending the canal; put it towards another mile of streetcar tracks; ensuring the new parking garage has enough money to do it right-- any of these are better ideas than using it for ongoing, recurring expenditures.

BoulderSooner
06-26-2012, 09:28 AM
this is not one time money ..

king183
06-26-2012, 09:38 AM
this is not one time money ..

How is this not one-time money? It's an unexpected surplus due to projected higher sales tax receipts for the fiscal year. If you were following the council debate over this issue last week, several councilmembers and the budget guy cautioned that this is not recurring and shouldn't be counted on for the following fiscal year (unless the economy continues to improve and tax receipts continue to come in over projections, which is not assured by any means).

JohnH_in_OKC
06-26-2012, 10:39 AM
Why would we spend this one-time surprlus on recurring costs, like Sunday bus service (that precisely 7 people will use) or more police (who I assume will be on the job more than one year)? That's irresponsible fiscal planning. If you want to expand bus service or add police, then you need to put it in the operating budget.

Since this is one-time money, we should use it for a one-time expenditure or put it into a reserve fund. The quiet zone on the railroad tracks that was needed for development; putting it back into P180 to finish it as originally planned; fast-tracking the conversion of Hudson and Walker to two-way streets; extending the canal; put it towards another mile of streetcar tracks; ensuring the new parking garage has enough money to do it right-- any of these are better ideas than using it for ongoing, recurring expenditures.

How uninformed you are. Thousands of our citizens use our bus transit on Saturday & the same thousands will use our bus service on Sundays. You've got to realize we have a lot of working poor who are unable to work on Sundays & lots of blind & disabled people who would love for our public transit to get them to church & to friends' houses & to shopping centers on Sundays, but they are usually stuck at home without public transit.

I do suggest you talk to people who use our transit system. Most depend on it as their only means of transportation. Try to put yourself in their shoes instead of blowing them off & forgetting they exist. They need our public help & support.

BoulderSooner
06-26-2012, 10:46 AM
How is this not one-time money? It's an unexpected surplus due to projected higher sales tax receipts for the fiscal year. If you were following the council debate over this issue last week, several councilmembers and the budget guy cautioned that this is not recurring and shouldn't be counted on for the following fiscal year (unless the economy continues to improve and tax receipts continue to come in over projections, which is not assured by any means).

except their argument is very flawed .. pretty much every dept increased their budget based on the city finance office projections ... this "extra" money is just using the same projections with more valid/recent data .......

so if this money is not around the next fiscal year it will be the same with all of the dept increases and every part of the city will have to pull back ..

king183
06-26-2012, 10:47 AM
How uninformed you are. Thousands of our citizens use our bus transit on Saturday & the same thousands will use our bus service on Sundays. You've got to realize we have a lot of working poor who are unable to work on Sundays & lots of blind & disabled people who would love for our public transit to get them to church & to friends' houses & to shopping centers on Sundays, but they are usually stuck at home without public transit.

I do suggest you talk to people who use our transit system. Most depend on it as their only means of transportation. Try to put yourself in their shoes instead of blowing them off & forgetting they exist. They need our public help & support.


No, sir: How uninformed are YOU? VERY few people use our bus system. That is a simple fact. That is acknowledged in both of the news articles and by the councilmemebers themselves, which is one of the reasons they were hesitant to approve the money for expanded bus service. That's for various reasons, including an inefficient system that isn't predictable and bus routes that no one has a desire on which to ride. I'm not indicting the idea of bus service; I'm indicting a system those who are knowledgable about acknowledge isn't very good. That's why we shouldn't spend this surplus money on it, in addition to the fact that it will be a recurring expense.

Stop accusing others of being uninformed until you have the facts, which you clearly don't. Just because YOU ride the bus doesn't mean a lot of people do.

Lastly, quit using sophomoric debate tactics and accusing me (or others) of "blowing off the poor and disabled" simply because we question the wisdom of spending this particular pool of money on this particular project.

king183
06-26-2012, 10:57 AM
except their argument is very flawed .. pretty much every dept increased their budget based on the city finance office projections ... this "extra" money is just using the same projections with more valid/recent data .......

so if this money is not around the next fiscal year it will be the same with all of the dept increases and every part of the city will have to pull back ..

Except that, in this case, using these surplus funds, we'd rather not have to eliminate Sunday bus service one year after it's implemented or fire 50 police officers one year after they're hired.

That's why it makes more sense, in my opinion, to use this on a one-time expenditure or put it into a reserve fund, at least until we know this will be a relatively steady source of funding. And that is definitely not a certainty in this economic environment.

JohnH_in_OKC
06-26-2012, 11:03 AM
My views may be skewed by riding bus 7 & bus 23 often, which are both often full, the downtown trolley which is often full (when we have public downtown events) and the bus transit center with a usual waiting crowd of around 200 people. I assume that there are thousands who ride the bus daily. I don't often ride the bus on Saturday, because the wait times & connections are not as good as the daily connections. But I did see several riders waiting at bus stops on North Penn last Saturday as I was driving to Sam's Club & Aldi's & Quail Springs Mall.

I may be wrong, but I think our transit system would work a lot better if we had Sunday service & evening service so people could work Sundays & at jobs that had hours extending past 6 pm & had better connections -- a grid system (like many cities have) has been proposed. However, for many people, a grid system would likely involve at least one transfer in the hot sun, the rain or snow to get to where they need to go. Our spoke system can get people where they need to go with usually just one transfer (and they get to wait in our air conditioned transit center), but trips take longer.

Bellaboo
06-26-2012, 12:09 PM
How uninformed you are. Thousands of our citizens use our bus transit on Saturday & the same thousands will use our bus service on Sundays. You've got to realize we have a lot of working poor who are unable to work on Sundays & lots of blind & disabled people who would love for our public transit to get them to church & to friends' houses & to shopping centers on Sundays, but they are usually stuck at home without public transit.

I do suggest you talk to people who use our transit system. Most depend on it as their only means of transportation. Try to put yourself in their shoes instead of blowing them off & forgetting they exist. They need our public help & support.


Your views are skewed - Metro Lift is available for qualifying people with handicaps and dissabilities with personal curb to curb pickup and delivery service. Not sure if it's available on Sundays, but don't bring the dissabled into play, when services are provided.

1972ford
06-27-2012, 01:17 AM
maybe we should scrap metro lift and use the money on the buses and provide more services to everyone as well as save fuel

Bellaboo
06-27-2012, 07:04 AM
maybe we should scrap metro lift and use the money on the buses and provide more services to everyone as well as save fuel

You can can go ahead and suggest that to the council...or transit authority...

Snowman
06-27-2012, 08:17 AM
maybe we should scrap metro lift and use the money on the buses and provide more services to everyone as well as save fuel

It is ironic you say the buses would provide more service to everyone. Since metro lift does offer service to everyone, with the exception of the downtown trolley few of the buses will ever provide service to anyone living over 1/2 mile from a route. Even if we doubled Metro Transits budget and only spent the money on the existing lines buses service would not be that great, the city decided a long time ago to serve a large area poorly verses a manageable area well.

Larry OKC
06-27-2012, 10:34 AM
There is more surplus money to be spent other than this $1.3 million. I don't have the article handy so doing this from memory. City Manager Couch told Council recently that they have some $8 million (??) or so in some account that they can use and it not effect some rating or another. They did the same thing last year and used the extra money for road improvements.

BoulderSooner
06-27-2012, 10:37 AM
There is more surplus money to be spent other than this $1.3 million. I don't have the article handy so doing this from memory. City Manager Couch told Council recently that they have some $8 million (??) or so in some account that they can use and it not effect some rating or another. They did the same thing last year and used the extra money for road improvements.

yep

Plutonic Panda
09-25-2012, 07:52 PM
An artcile I came across. OKC Council Considers Plan To Hire More Police Officers - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/19638065/okc-council-considers-plan-to-put-more-officers-on-city-streets)