I know this has been talked about before but I thought I would give a little update -

I live at the Montgomery. A friend was dropping me off tonight out front on Main St when a panhandler came up and started shouting at us through the driver side window. He was obviously drunk and asking for money for more beer. The problem was he would not leave us alone after several minutes.

So we drove away and called the police. They responded quickly with two cruisers and were questioning the panhandlers (there were two) when I left. My advice is this - if you are downtown, and being aggressively panhandled, call the police. They are happy to respond. Aggressive panhandling may eventually devlop into some kind of assualt -- especially if the individual is drunk. If we constantly call the police we may make the environment unfriendly for aggressive panahandling -- and prevent an assault in the future.

Any thoughts?

indeed

I think an aggressive public relations campaign would solve the problem of panhandling. The city should begin an aggressive public service campaign and collaborate with organizations that help the needy in the city.



A public service announcement could state, “Do not give to panhandlers instead give to the (insert charity here). “ Then the ad could explain how the organization helps the poor, and what do when confronted by a panhandler.



The city could also establish charitable fund for the homeless. The funds could be awarded to the city’s homeless organizations in the form of grants or infrastructure.



I do not give to panhandlers because you never know when you might end up being a victim of a robbery. Your good deed may cost you your paycheck, let alone your life.

Good idea

I think an aggressive public relations campaign would solve the problem of panhandling. The city should begin an aggressive public service campaign and collaborate with organizations that help the needy in the city.



A public service announcement could state, “Do not give to panhandlers instead give to the (insert charity here). “ Then the ad could explain how the organization helps the poor, and what do when confronted by a panhandler.



The city could also establish charitable fund for the homeless. The funds could be awarded to the city’s homeless organizations in the form of grants or infrastructure.



I do not give to panhandlers because you never know when you might end up being a victim of a robbery. Your good deed may cost you your paycheck, let alone your life.
Very true. I am the type that likes to drive around town with my window rolled down, however, when I come up on an intersection, and see a panhandler, I always roll my window up and lock my door. I don't trust any of them, and I don't take any chances.

If you are capable of it, and won't endanger yourself or others, don't feel bad about busting the worthless piece of garbage's head. If they are drunk, a fist in the jaw will drop them like a rock.

I agree with a public relations message. I wonder if you could post a sign somewhere downtown warning about aggressive panhandling. I imagine your average person walking downtown will feel guilty about not giving money to panhandlers. They need to know there are better avenues for their money out there if they want to help.

It's not like the "homeless" I have run into are a bunch of old winos who are washed up and out of luck. Several of these panhandlers are young and dressed in obviously new clothes. Should you really be pulling out your wallet right in front of these people?

Very true. I am the type that likes to drive around town with my window rolled down, however, when I come up on an intersection, and see a panhandler, I always roll my window up and lock my door. I don't trust any of them, and I don't take any chances.

In addition. Did you know that there is a strong chance that panhandler finishes his or her day by going to the shiney new Lincoln or Cadillac parked across the street? They then get inside it, and drive home... To that house that cost more than yours did... And, if you hand them money, you paid for all that.

Either that, or it goes to the closest liquor store.

Based on last night...
I would say the $$$ was probably going to both the car and the beer.

I serve on a United Way committee that handles many of the agencies involved in the homeless community. There are so many resources available to these people downtown and throughout Oklahoma City, there is no reason you should be handing anyone cash on a street corner downtown (unless you want to help them buy some smokes or booze). You'd be helping them a lot more by giving them a couple of quarters and telling them to call the United Way offices for assistance in where to go for a bed, a meal, healthcare, longer-term housing, etc. Their number is 236-8441. Them making the call and getting help will keep them out of jail, something that does nobody any good and costs all of us lots of money.

I work at the corner of Park and Harvey and until they opened the new Galleria Garage, parked in the lot behind the new library. One day my co-worker and I were going to lunch and a guy with two small children approached us wanting money to "feed his kids". My friend told him we would bring him something back from lunch since she didn't have any cash on her. He proceeded to pull up his pant leg and show us where he had been "bitten by a spider" and just laughed. I couldn't believe it!! I spent the next five minutes telling my friend that he was just using those kids and if she had given him any money he probably would have spent it on booze. I know a lot of people think I am heartless when it comes to these people roaming around downtown but when I first started working down here, I was approached by a homeless guy that wanted money and when I told him I didn't have any he started yelling at me, scared the crap out of me. I'm just afraid that a lot of them are unstable and anything could happen if you try to interact with them.

I work at the corner of Park and Harvey and until they opened the new Galleria Garage, parked in the lot behind the new library. One day my co-worker and I were going to lunch and a guy with two small children approached us wanting money to "feed his kids". My friend told him we would bring him something back from lunch since she didn't have any cash on her. He proceeded to pull up his pant leg and show us where he had been "bitten by a spider" and just laughed. I couldn't believe it!! I spent the next five minutes telling my friend that he was just using those kids and if she had given him any money he probably would have spent it on booze. I know a lot of people think I am heartless when it comes to these people roaming around downtown but when I first started working down here, I was approached by a homeless guy that wanted money and when I told him I didn't have any he started yelling at me, scared the crap out of me. I'm just afraid that a lot of them are unstable and anything could happen if you try to interact with them.

To those people that think we are "heartless" for not giving these "people" money. Have you ever heard of an enabler? Think about it.

If I remember correctly, there is an aggressive plan going on as well as several agencies such as Ernie Ball mentioned that are working hard to address this issue. In addition they are currently working on the "voucher" program which will allow them to get a free meal, place to stay, haircut, healthcare, etc. This will allow people who want to give, give them something they really need without having to give them cash. If they balk at what they say they need after offering a voucher, then you know they probably aren't in need after all.

If I remember correctly, there is an aggressive plan going on as well as several agencies such as Ernie Ball mentioned that are working hard to address this issue. In addition they are currently working on the "voucher" program which will allow them to get a free meal, place to stay, haircut, healthcare, etc. This will allow people who want to give, give them something they really need without having to give them cash. If they balk at what they say they need after offering a voucher, then you know they probably aren't in need after all.

I would love to give them a "voucher." Three hots and a cot. A cuff andd stuff session. They are vagrants, and vagrancy is against the law.

I think the voucher is a wonderful idea for food and shelter - some people do need help - if my kids were hungry and I didn't have food for them and couldn't get it, you just might see me asking for food or money one day - I'm so fortunate, a hamburger given to a homeless person won't break me and just might mean his only meal for a few days.

We are all very fortunate, we can't generalize about all of the homeless people - I think we need to have compassion. Granted, most are addicted or abusing substances but maybe they are trying to numb the pain of not having money and family, or maybe they lost their job and had horrible medical bills. We never know, frankly I'm surprised by the lack of compassion especially with a church on every corner. Thankfully, I see people helping them all of the time.

I do agree that they can be obnoxious when drunk and sometimes dangerous but I usually see the elderly amputee in the freezing rain with no coat - if he needs a buck, I'll gladly give it to him...maybe he can get some hot coffee - I don't care what he gets.. but I can't just sit in my warm car and watch him shiver - that's just how I feel, I'm not here to judge anyone.

It is usually obvious who is in need and who is not. The old, disabled man in the wheelchair who is there every day is probably not a threat. The young guys who work in pairs and are super aggressive are not really earning my sympathy. And they are dangerous.

Does anyone know where to get these vouchers for meals etc?

I'm just afraid that a lot of them are unstable and anything could happen if you try to interact with them.
Unfortunately you are absolutely correct. According to both Homeless Alliance and Northcare (a non-profit that provides mental health services to such people) about 40% of the downtown homeless population is mentally ill. In a conversation I had with Oklahoma County Sheriff John Whetsel last month about 20% of our inmates in the county jail are mentally ill. According to him that's about 5% higher than the national average. The Sheriff's department is actually working closely with some of these agencies like Northcare to get those mentally ill inmates out of jail and into a day program to help deal with their illness and prevent recidivism, a major problem for the mentally ill who often have no concept of what is legal, right/wrong, etc and so have difficulty staying out of jail, especially if they are on the streets. This is also a major problem for our city and the county jail, which operates near full capacity constantly. Jailing these individuals for vagrancy accomplishes little and costs taxpayers significant amounts of money, not to mention the fact that they take up beds in the county jail that are needed for actual violent criminals and end up back in jail over and over because the root cause of their problem, mental illness, isn't being addressed.

Edit: I should add that Oklahoma County Commissioner Jim Roth (District 1) was at the same meeting with Sheriff Whetsel and the county is behind this initiative 100%.

Unfortunately you are absolutely correct. According to both Homeless Alliance and Northcare (a non-profit that provides mental health services to such people) about 40% of the downtown homeless population is mentally ill. In a conversation I had with Oklahoma County Sheriff John Whetsel last month about 20% of our inmates in the county jail are mentally ill. According to him that's about 5% higher than the national average. The Sheriff's department is actually working closely with some of these agencies like Northcare to get those mentally ill inmates out of jail and into a day program to help deal with their illness and prevent recidivism, a major problem for the mentally ill who often have no concept of what is legal, right/wrong, etc and so have difficulty staying out of jail, especially if they are on the streets. This is also a major problem for our city and the county jail, which operates near full capacity constantly. Jailing these individuals for vagrancy accomplishes little and costs taxpayers significant amounts of money, not to mention the fact that they take up beds in the county jail that are needed for actual violent criminals and end up back in jail over and over because the root cause of their problem, mental illness, isn't being addressed.

Edit: I should add that Oklahoma County Commissioner Jim Roth (District 1) was at the same meeting with Sheriff Whetsel and the county is behind this initiative 100%.
Thanks, Ernie. I think there are many of us that did not know that. I agree, that those that are mentally ill don't need to be in the county jail, they need to be in some type of program that can give them the help they really need.

I would love to give them a "voucher." Three hots and a cot. A cuff andd stuff session. They are vagrants, and vagrancy is against the law.

For the 60% of the downtown homeless population that isn't mentally ill, I think this is the right solution. Ticket them, jail them, make sure they know about resources available to get them off the streets. Make the punishment such that it will motivate them to make use of free resources and improve their lives. For those that are simply 'pretending' to be homeless to make a quick panhandling buck, it'll dissuade them from continuing that line of work. Perhaps more importantly, it will reduce the number of homeless that end up going to jail as the deterrence becomes more effective. That will help alleviate the overcrowding problem at the jail and help reduce the costs of incarceration.

Thanks, Ernie. I think there are many of us that did not know that. I agree, that those that are mentally ill don't need to be in the county jail, they need to be in some type of program that can give them the help they really need.

One thing I forgot to mention. When these mentally ill homeless end up in jail and become wards of the state they must be provided health care in addition to a bed, clothing, and food. For the mentally ill that means psychotropic drugs must be provided to them by the jail, and such pharmaceuticals are very expensive as most of the effective drugs are relatively new or are orphan drugs. Getting these folks out of jail and into programs like those at Northcare saves a ton of money for taxpayers and shifts that burden to non-profits that are funded by voluntary private donations.

ptwobjb , as I mentioned the voucher program is currently being drafted up, look for it to be implemented 3rd quarter of this year

I worked on Park Avenue 1998-2003 and saw the panhandling problem immediately & significantly worsen with the retirement of a short OCPD beat cop. Can't remember his name (not important, but a nice guy), and he made it a personal priority to discourage the homeless from coming to the center of the CBD. I saw this retired officer later and commented on the decline (vagrants sleeping on grates, panhandling in Kerr Park, hanging around between buildings, getting more agressive, etc). He told me that the Police Department lowered priorities on enforcement because jailing these people took an officer off the street during the booking process, and ultimately wasn't effective. I mentioned to Devery Youngblood (formerly head of Downtown OKC, now working for Earnest Istook), and he wasn't interested. Methinks that Rudy Guliani had it right - controlling petty crimes will lead to a city's revitalization.

well said tom

Due to recent decisions on his part (joining forces with Istook and now this), I haven't been a real fan on Devery Youngblood in recent years. I think our PD is making a huge mistake by writing off panhandling and the homeless as an issue not worth worrying about. But, I suppose with budget cuts and all, dealing with criminal activities probably climbs the list, and dealing with the homeless falls to the bottom. Dealing properly with the pandhandling problem plays a huge role in the success of downtown. People don't want to go downtown if they're going to continuously be harassed by panhandlers and the homeless population.