I've neglected to include at OkcTalk a series of 3 posts which are underway in my blog and which I expect will take several months to complete. The 3 articles focus upon a 1967 aerial photo given to me by a lawyer friend, Jim Slayton, he being given that photo by one of his clients. The photo is shown below:

Click here for a 2000 x 1569 view (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/1967/2_24_1967_2000.jpg)
Click here for a 6040 px wide view (http://www.dougloudenback.com/okchistory/2_24_1967_6040.jpg)
Click here for a 1024 px wide view (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/1967/2_24_1967_1024.jpg)

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/1967/2_24_1967_510.jpg

Since the excellent photo has so very much to offer in terms of content in terms of histories of buildings shown, I've split the image into "slices" ... lower, middle, and upper, generally corresponding to "Uptown," "Midtown," and "Downtown." Part 1 (Uptown) (http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2012/02/oklahoma-city-circa-1967.html) took me from February 29 until May 9 to finish and is a very long read. It describes items shown in the "lower slice" of the main photo:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/1967/bottomslice_510-1.jpg

Those numbered items (1-12) are: 1 (Beverly's), 2 (Batten's Flowers), 3 (Gold Bond Gifts), 4 (Hammond Organ), 5 (Vacuum Cleaner Supply), 6 (Oklahoma Blueprint, later Rainbow Records), 7 (Townley's Milk Bottle), 8 (Classen Cafeteria), 9 (Cinema Mayflower), 10 (Beef & Bun Restaurant), 11 (Someplace Else), and 12 (Citizens State Bank). Citizens State Bank (the "Gold Dome" ) history is by far the longest and, I think, most historically interesting, of the internal parts of the initial article.

Largely, the 1967 posts are for those who enjoy delving into the bowels of our city's history and who don't mind reading! For those of you so inclined, I hope that you will enjoy. The Citizen's State Bank (Gold Dome) piece is by far the longest and includes parts which delve into the underbelly of why/how Citizens bank failed and some of its more colorful rich and famous as well as those who weren't but were merely very interesting scoundrels.

Just FYI, Someplace Else didn't exist in 1967. It began in 1976; one of my wife's co-workers left the Crum & Forster (insurance company) regional office to start it up, and we still drop in on Peggy from time to time, as do several other of her colleagues from almost 40 years ago...

Oops!! I see that I had already told you this on the blog! Guess the decades are finally beginning to catch up with me...

I've still not ventured down to the downtown library to look at the 1967 city directory to know the occupant of the "Someplace Else" property in that year. Presumably such a directory would identify the occupant.

In 1968 that Someplace Else site (2310 N. Western) was occupied by an upholstery shop:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/2310nwestern.jpg

Yes, that's so. As I said in the blog article's description of this property,


11. Someplace Else Deli & Bakery and Cookies Tavern. Unfortunately, the 1967 aerial photo of this property immediately east of the Gold Dome is not sufficiently crisp to be able read any signage on either of these buildings. The signage on the property at 2310 N. Western, Someplace Else today, appears to begin with "25," but that's far from certain, and the property located at 2304 N. Western, Cookies tavern today, is even less helpful in the 1967 aerial. The only thing certain is that neither property bore their present day names, shown below on March 1, 2012.

That said, here's a bit of each property's prior history. County Assessor records state that each property was constructed in 1935. The Someplace Else business has existed since 1976 but I don't know when Cookies tavern was born but it was by 2001. Today, both properties have the same owners, David and Peggy Carty, the operators of the deli.

2310 N. Western. Among other uses and names, this property was a small grocery and meat market (1947), Moser's Pet Shop (1952-53), Universal Improvement Co. (1955), appliance repair (1959-60), DeSpain Realty (1962), Doll Haven & Hospital (1963-64), Acme Vacuum Sales (1964-65), AAA Upholstery (1968), and, most notably, Sound Warehouse (1972-1973), which I understand was that company's first location.

But between 12/10/1967 - 1/14/14/1968, AAA Quality Upholstery was located at 1100 NW 24th, according to Oklahoman ads on those dates. The 1st ad I located for AAA Upholstery at the subject address was on January 21, 1968. So, it wouldn't have occupied 2310 N. Western when the 1967 photo was taken, unless it had 2 shops, the one on Western not being advertised which is unlikely. But thanks for the stab. It's probably going to take a look at the 1967 city directory to figure this one out.

Thanks for the article over this photo! An unfortunately-cropped version has been my wallpaper for some time. I can't believe the detail when you zoom in!

Wow, Doug, that's some thorough investigating and reporting!

Thanks for the article over this photo! An unfortunately-cropped version has been my wallpaper for some time. I can't believe the detail when you zoom in!
Free Won't, in case you didn't notice in the blog post, an uncropped high resolution version of the 1967 photo is located here (http://www.dougloudenback.com/okchistory/2_24_1967_6040.jpg). It's dimensions are 6040 x 4738 px, size=10.9 MB. It may be more than you want.

Wow, Doug, that's some thorough investigating and reporting!
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/thankyouverymuch.jpg

the "2" seems to be darker than the rest of the letters, so i'm wondering if that's not part of the business name. it's also spaced a bit apart from the rest of the script and at a slightly different angle. the "5" looks like the first character of the business name tilted at an angle. it looks to me like an "S" with one or two letters following, then maybe a "d" in the middle, followed by a letter and then a "y" at the end... most likely a proper name. Below that, there's a word going straight across... perhaps 5 letters, all capitals.

-M

I agree, looks like "Sub_y's" or Sud_y's"? Almost looks like the missing better might be another b or d. The "2" may be a logo or graphic element of some sort. The 2 billboards right above it are for a Chevy(?) Rally and an AC place (something about "Home Desert Dry?"). Good thing I'm not on Wheel of Fortune

sussy's never had a location there, did it? the bottom five letters could read pizza... however, that scripted logo doesn't match any of the ads i found online. -M

The middle letters definitely look like they have ascenders (b or d) so I would think that would rule out Sussys, but then again, I am having a hard time making words with the letters I think they are ("Sub_y's" or Sud_y's")...like I said, good thing I'm not on Wheel

Could it be "Subway" with no possessive at the end? Or were they around that long ago?

Don't know, Jim. MikeOKC fiddled with a crop of the building in the photo and came up with this ...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/1967/mikeokcsomeplaceelse.jpg

Like Martin said, the bottom word does look like Pizza ... the top Su ... something.

Wasn't Hemi's Pizza in the space that Something Else is in back in the late 70's/early 80's? My grandmother and a couple of uncles lived at the corner of 24th & Olie at the time of this photo, but I was too young at the time to have much memory of the area.

I'd bet that it was a Sussy's location. I know that after Jack went to prison for arson, Jake Samara fell on hard times and at one point had a tiny hole-in-the-wall place under the Sussy name at about SW 24 and Robinson. That was in the mid to late 50s, when I was at the Oklahoman. I ate there a couple of times, and Jake himself was running the cash register.

Free Won't, in case you didn't notice in the blog post, an uncropped high resolution version of the 1967 photo is located here (http://www.dougloudenback.com/okchistory/2_24_1967_6040.jpg). It's dimensions are 6040 x 4738 px, size=10.9 MB. It may be more than you want.

Oh, no, that's the size I used. I HAD to crop it myself, unfortunately, to get it to fit my 16:9 monitor correctly. I did use it in its entirety for a little bit, but seeing everything a little squat kind of played tricks with my eyes after a while. I did like how stupidly big and detailed the photo was that I had to play with it as such, though....I managed to get the top of the FNC antenna and the bottom of Citizen's Bank in though, so I'm decent enough.

And for my part, I'm DEFINITELY seeing "Sussy's" on that sign.

Jim,
Jack Sussy (Sussman) was still running the Sussy's and the Prow Lounge (Bar) attached to the North of the restaurant on Lincoln in the late 60's to the early 70's. Jake managed the restaurant and according to Prunpicker he actually owned all of the restaurants but hired Sussy and used his name. The group I ran with started going to Sussy's in the late 50's, just before I left OKC in 1960. It wasn't the one pictured, but I believe that could have been where he and Jake got started. As far as I know, Hemi's started on the North side of 23rd sometime after I returned to OKC in 1968. Yes, Jake had a Sussy's on S. Robinson but I believe his last restaurant was the Spaghetti Factory in the Paseo district. That's the last place my family saw him when we ate there. I think that was the late 80's.
C. T.

I did an extensive search and the only Sussy's operations in the 60's were at 24th & S. Robinson, the Lincoln location and some food items at Tally Ho in Quail Plaza.

They did a massive amount of advertising and I couldn't find any record of them being located near 23rd & Western.

Pete, I did the same thing -- with the same result. My next search is going to be simply for "pizza" ads in 1966-67 to see what that brings up.

C.T. -- Yep, it looks like "Sussy's" to me too but I don't think it could be, with no ads at all...

Jim, I've already done that (searched only for "pizza" in the Oklahoman archives during the time period). Maybe you'll find something I didn't, but just searching for "pizza" in the Oklahoma archives turned up nothing for this property at the "Something Else" location. Ditto searching for "sussys" during the same time. I think resolution of what was in place at that location will require someone trekking to the downtown city library and just looking up the address, 2310 N. Western. Hopefully, that endeavor will produce a conclusive result ... assuming that the address is in the directory.

I'm wondering, now, whether that side of the building was occupied at all when the photo was made. What we are assuming to be a sign for the occupant just might be an ad for Sussy's actual locations...

Not wanting to do the walking it would take to get to the downtown library, I just called my good friend, Larry (Buddy) Johnson, research librarian there, and asked if he would do me a favor ... look up the pair of addresses (2310 N. Western <Someplace Else today> and 2304 N. Western <Cookies tavern today> )... and being a good buddy, Buddy, granted the request. The results from the 1966 and 1967 city directories are (drum roll, please):

1966-1967: 2310 N. Western: Suzzy's Pizza (yes, that's a pair of z's and sometimes shown as Suzzy's Pizza & Grill)


1966-1967: 2304 N. Western: Mamie's Lounge


I followed that up with a search in the Oklahoman's archives to see if I could find any matches in the 1960s and came up empty. But the city directories should be evidence enough, particularly combined with the partial signage that we could make out.

Three cheers and hats off to Buddy Johnson! Hip Hip Hooray! Hip Hip Hooray! Hip Hip Hooray! :bow::bow::bow:

Awesome, Doug.


When I soon have the 1969 aerials up, we can all start obsessing over every single square inch of Oklahoma County at that time.

At some point, the drive to KNOW just takes hold, doesn't it? Due to the massive amount of information on-line these days, it's increasingly rare to not be able to figure something out. And then it usually just comes down to tenacity, resourcefulness and often the mind of someone else.

There is a personality type that just can't stop until the information is found; is all about the thrill of the hunt and bringing something to completion.

I completely agree. Problems are for solving and that provides the zest and quest. It would be sooo great if old city directories were on line, wouldn't it? Those books are so huge that it's not likely to happen in the near future ... so, as you said, having good friends like Buddy and others as are shown in this thread is a huge help. It doesn't matter WHO comes up with the answer, the answer satisfies, regardless.

On edit: I'm anxious to see your 1969 stuff ... and hope that it will be available in very high resolution!

Yes, the aerials are all very high-res, but from above and not an oblique angle, so we won't be able to see signs.

Still, I have no doubt we'll be able to eventually label almost everything.

Yes, the aerials are all very high-res, but from above and not an oblique angle, so we won't be able to see signs.

Still, I have no doubt we'll be able to eventually label almost everything.


Here's an example for the 23rd & Classen area (forgive the watermark):

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/63western1969.jpg

Thanks, Pete. The "2nd slice" of the 1967 photo blog post will be significantly involved with the pic you posted above, particularly the 3rd and northmost building of the American Fidelity 3-building complex. The closing of NW 20th to build that structure was deemed illegal by the courts and led to the Oklahoma Supreme Court case most often cited in litigation which involves the amount of attorney fee awards, the Oklahoma Supreme Court's 1979 decision in State ex rel. Burk v. City of Oklahoma City (http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/deliverdocument.asp?citeid=48063).

Of course, a heck of a lot of additional litigation was involved with that street closing, but this one is especially important in Oklahoma legal jurisprudence because it resulted in the "seminal" (as lawyers say) case for determining the amount of attorney fee awards in civil litigation in Oklahoma to this day. There's lots more in the middle slice of the 1967 photo which is interesting, also.

Consider this reply to be a "1967 aerial photo middle-slice teaser."

Doug and Buddy,
Great information, now, was Suzzy's the first Sussy's? Or was it actually a "Sussy's" at all? I suspect it was the first or at least one of the early Sussy's locations. Just my opinion though.
C. T.

No, it was simply a ripoff of the name. The original Sussy's, located on NE 23 across the street from the Capitol, introduced pizza to OKC and became locally famous. For lots of folk, including my family, if it wasn't Sussy's original recipe, it wasn't really pizza!

Since the outfit on Western just south of NW 23 never once advertised in the Oklahoman, it obviously was a shoestring operation. Jack Sussman, with Jake Samara's money behind him, did things in a first-class manner as long as he could.

C.T., I don't know, but Jim's answer sounds probable to me.

On edit, here is what the Oklahoman shows about the original Sussy's.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/restaurants/sussys_1949_02_06.jpg

Now that you put it that way, it makes more sense to me. I guess what surprises me most is the date. I was double dating when I was 14 (four good friends that were two years older and had cars) and that was 1957, my sister was three years older and I thought Sussy's opened after I started dating. Obviously, I was wrong. I also had my first pizza at Southwest 25th and Kentucky, and it wasn't Sussy's. I really enjoy this thread.
Thanks,
C. T.

Is the ad correct, open til 3 a.m., or was it just a lunch place and they meant what we now call p.m.?

It was correct. The restaurant was next door to the Jamboree Club, also owned by Jake Samara, and got quite a bit of business in the wee hours of the morning.

Never mind, think the mystery has been solved...sorry Pete, you quoted me before I edited...LOL (Spartan can critique me if he wants :-P)

I am not doubting your source and it may be tricks of light/dark, and while I can see the "z" in the word "pizza" below, the middle letters of "Su__y" still look like they have ascenders...if that is a 'script" style typeface, a "z" would have a descender much like a "y"...at least in the script type faces I know of....

Further, the second and third letters sure look a lot like the last one, which we all agree looks like an "s".

As is often the case, I may be crazy, but was there a restaurant or club on north Classen near 23rd named Fuzzy's? I seem to recall a Fuzzy's sign somewhere along Classen and seeing a car crash into it in the wee hours of the night. The driver got out and ran off into the darkness. It was a rainy Saturday-Sunday overnight, 1975-1977 or so and a couple of us were wandering aimlessly while another compadre was waiting in line for concert tickets. There was a donut shop near by.

Tritone, I may be mistaken but I don't think that Sussy's (of any flavor) had a place on Classen. It appears that a parting of the ways occurred between Jack Sussy (Jack Sussman) and the owner(s) of the Sussy's on NE 23rd and in October 1957 Jack Sussy opened his new restaurant at 4801 N. Lincoln which was totally distinct from the Sussy's at 629 NE 23. I didn't live in Oklahoma City at the time but the Sussy's at 4801 N. Lincoln provided the 1962 or 1963 venue for one of the defining experiences of my then young life.

As for what you might be recalling, the event you might be remembering might be the event which occurred in 1961:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/restaurants/sussys_1961_07_02.jpg

Doug,

Thanks for your effort. I know the instance I remember was not as early as 1961. Happily I was not wandering the streets just yet. I just remember a sign that said Fuzzy, not Sussy. Thanks again.

TT

As is often the case, I may be crazy, but was there a restaurant or club on north Classen near 23rd named Fuzzy's? I seem to recall a Fuzzy's sign somewhere along Classen and seeing a car crash into it in the wee hours of the night. The driver got out and ran off into the darkness. It was a rainy Saturday-Sunday overnight, 1975-1977 or so and a couple of us were wandering aimlessly while another compadre was waiting in line for concert tickets. There was a donut shop near by.Yes, Fizzy's was on Classen, but it was near NW 12, not NW 23. Originally it was strictly a hole in the wall, in the middle of the block between NW 11 and NW 12. The Mayde Mack Mummers crew used to hang out there in the early 50s, when they were still doing summer tent shows in Will Rogers Park and long before they moved into Stage Center. That was when and why I discovered the place; he never checked IDs when one ordered a draft beer. Later, Arthur "Fuzzy" Rahill opened his restaurant and club at the corner of NW 12. It had some of the best live jazz in the area. It was still around in the 70s, but went under several years before Fuzzy died.

I never knew whether Rahill had any ties to Jack Samara, but it's not beyond belief since Jack pretty well ruled night life in OKC during his era. The Sussy's restaurants on N Lincoln (both the one at NE 37 and the one at NE 49) were Samara operations. Since Rahill and Samara were both leading lights of the Lebanese community here, I always believed they were in business together...

Yes, Fizzy's was on Classen, but it was near NW 12, not NW 23. Originally it was strictly a hole in the wall, in the middle of the block between NW 11 and NW 12. The Mayde Mack Mummers crew used to hang out there in the early 50s, when they were still doing summer tent shows in Will Rogers Park and long before they moved into Stage Center. That was when and why I discovered the place; he never checked IDs when one ordered a draft beer. Later, Arthur "Fuzzy" Rahill opened his restaurant and club at the corner of NW 12. It had some of the best live jazz in the area. It was still around in the 70s, but went under several years before Fuzzy died.

I never knew whether Rahill had any ties to Jack Samara, but it's not beyond belief since Jack pretty well ruled night life in OKC during his era. The Sussy's restaurants on N Lincoln (both the one at NE 37 and the one at NE 49) were Samara operations. Since Rahill and Samara were both leading lights of the Lebanese community here, I always believed they were in business together...

Good stuff, Jim. I think Fuzzy's on Classen was there until at least 1991. I ate their big shrimp deal that was one night a week. I still miss it.

With all this conversation about 23rd and Western, perhaps someone could clarify for me, whether of not there was a restaurant called "Archies" in the general vicinity of that intersection, around 1970

With all this conversation about 23rd and Western, perhaps someone could clarify for me, whether of not there was a restaurant called "Archies" in the general vicinity of that intersection, around 1970

Researching the Oklahoman archives, the only thing I could find was from 1977: Archie's Sandwich World at 4514 N. Western.