This is truly disturbing. And sad. What a scary thing to occur in Mesta Park, in all likelihood targeting Al for being gay. Here's the link, although NewsOK has only been working sporadically tonight. For some reason, comments on the article have been disabled. Why? Is it because it will reveal Oklahoman readers as gay-bashing nitwits?

http://newsok.com/flag-burned-outside-state-senators-oklahoma-city-home/article/3679210

This is truly disturbing. And sad. What a scary thing to occur in Mesta Park, in all likelihood targeting Al for being gay.

I have no idea what the motive was but how can you jump to a conclusion like that without any evidence? You might be right but, at this point there is no way of knowing and no reason to assume something that may or not be true or ever known. It could be an isolated incident like the shootings in Bricktown. You never know what motivates people to do stupid things.

A simple request to people who wish to burn a flag as a protest about [insert source of protest here] ....
If you think you have an important point to make, be committed enough to your protest to furnish your own flag.
Don't be a cheapo flag thief/firebug/putz

"in all likelihood targeting Al for being gay" -Wow...talk about a huge jump to conclusion as well as creating undue an antagonistic attitude! Its troublesome how some people can point a finger of blame without any basis of fact...troublesome indeed.

"in all likelihood targeting Al for being gay" -Wow...talk about a huge jump to conclusion as well as creating undue an antagonistic attitude! Its troublesome how some people can point a finger of blame without any basis of fact...troublesome indeed.

You're either very naive or willfully so. I knew people would respond this way. It's as predictable as the sun coming up in the east. I don't see a lot of flag burnings in Mesta Park / Heritage Hills. The guy's a public figure and openly gay. According to the story, it would have required two people to burn the flag. Do you really believe that miscreants were just driving by Heritage Hills and randomly landed on his house and his flag? Ridiculous.

The point is that it is scary that people would try to intimidate / scare someone this way. The guy's an ex-Marine, though, and could have taken care of the perps himself if he needed to. But they're obviously cowards. Say it to his face.

"in all likelihood targeting Al for being gay" -Wow...talk about a huge jump to conclusion as well as creating undue an antagonistic attitude! Its troublesome how some people can point a finger of blame without any basis of fact...troublesome indeed.

This.

I think it's pretty superfluous to call that a huge jump to conclusions. If I were McAffrey I'd have already had a body guard, but I suppose the part of town he lives in shields him from a lot.

I think the ones looking for something to get excited about and proof that everyone who doesn't share their beliefs is likely to do something like this can't help but jump the gun. It is prejudice at its most common and no different than how any intolerant person behaves when they see something that "proves their point," be it that people hate gay people, black people are all thugs, Methodists are like this, rich people are like that, etc.

It may be that some idiot did this for gay bashing reasons but we don't know, at this point. Can we at least wait until there is more information before making accusations that are more about the accuser's world view than the known facts?

Can you guys stop turning every newsworthy event into a bickering match? A little bit of measure in your postings would go a long way.

Regardless of the motivation, I think it is horrible for someone to burn a flag at the home of a veteran on this weekend of all weekends. What a lowlife.

Would it be accurate to say that the type of folks who abhor the LGBT community would also be the people who abhor burning the American flag? I'm having trouble reconciling the two actions. Burning a person's flag because that person is gay doesn't jive in my mind. Maybe if it was a rainbow flag...

Regardless of the motivation, I think it is horrible for someone to burn a flag at the home of a veteran on this weekend of all weekends. What a lowlife.

Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking. You know I think a lot of people just don't even really understand what this weekend is all about. I bought some little American flags at a local store yesterday and the girl behind the counter kept going on and on and on about why am I buying them, it's not the 4th yet so I must be getting the party started early, etc. I just kind of laughed it off, uncomfortably. She kept on asking and finally I just told her it was for some graves and she seemed so shocked.

It's great to have the weekend off with the family, and to be afforded the liberty of getting to protest outside a senator's place and also great that we can talk about whether or not we agree with this until we are blue in the face. But we should also take the time to remember that this weekend is also for our family members who served during wars and didn't get to return home, and for those who served and did return home but have since faded away.

If there was a real balance in the great circle of life ... maybe all teens with pistols would be avid flag guardians.

Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking. You know I think a lot of people just don't even really understand what this weekend is all about. I bought some little American flags at a local store yesterday and the girl behind the counter kept going on and on and on about why am I buying them, it's not the 4th yet so I must be getting the party started early, etc. I just kind of laughed it off, uncomfortably. She kept on asking and finally I just told her it was for some graves and she seemed so shocked.

I suppose the plus side of people simply not realizing what Memorial Day is supposed to be about is that we haven't had the awful widespread slaughter of so many of our young people that we saw in earlier wars - not that the loss of even one brave soul isn't a tragedy. Even when I was a kid, and even though I came from a career military family in the generation before I came along (and had an older brother in Vietnam), I thought Memorial Day was about kicking off summer rather than honoring our fallen and their families. My mother-in-law always decorated the graves of family members and, at first, that struck me as strange until I was made to understand. And that was a loooonnnnnggggg time ago. These days, I can see why young people wouldn't get it. It is a little like Labor Day - most of us don't really view it as about union stuff.

Would it be accurate to say that the type of folks who abhor the LGBT community would also be the people who abhor burning the American flag? I'm having trouble reconciling the two actions. Burning a person's flag because that person is gay doesn't jive in my mind. Maybe if it was a rainbow flag...

A similar thought crossed my mind. Traditionalists who might strongly resist LGBT issues typically also have traditional values concerning the American Flag.

I dont care if you agree with his politics, sexual orientation or anything else for that matter. This is just plain wrong.

A similar thought crossed my mind. Traditionalists who might strongly resist LGBT issues typically also have traditional values concerning the American Flag.

I think you are exemplifying jumping to conclusions.

I find it disconcerting to see people on this board turning out en masse to defend anything that paints the anti-LGBT hordes in a negative light. The defensiveness is not an attractive strategy. A flag belonging to the state's highest-ranking gay public official was burned here. We don't need to splinter into pro-LGBT and anti-LGBT factions over this.

The point is that it is wrong for McAffrey's flag to be burned. In order to defend McAffrey and express the proper indignation against his flag being burned, you need to embrace McAffrey - you can't do that without acknowledging what his leadership means for the state's LGBT community, like it or not.

McAffrey ought to put a camera that records on his flag at night. If the vandals come back, it would be interesting to see if they're more than, say, just high school punks.

In response to my comment:

A similar thought crossed my mind. Traditionalists who might strongly resist LGBT issues typically also have traditional values concerning the American Flag.
Spartan chimed in:

I think you are exemplifying jumping to conclusions.

I find it disconcerting to see people on this board turning out en masse to defend anything that paints the anti-LGBT hordes in a negative light. The defensiveness is not an attractive strategy. A flag belonging to the state's highest-ranking gay public official was burned here. We don't need to splinter into pro-LGBT and anti-LGBT factions over this.

The point is that it is wrong for McAffrey's flag to be burned. In order to defend McAffrey and express the proper indignation against his flag being burned, you need to embrace McAffrey - you can't do that without acknowledging what his leadership means for the state's LGBT community, like it or not.

My question is, how in the world did anyone leap to the conclusion that by discussing the values of the traditional crowd I said anything one way or the other about the values of LGBT crowd? The only way that makes any sense at all would be if Spartan thought I was distinguishing between the two - which, of course, would imply that it must have been someone from the LGBT faction who burned the flag. Which is nonsense, of course. I never said anything one way or the other about the patriotism or flag burning values of the LGBT crowd. For the record, I assume it isn't that much difference than anyone else. I happen to know quite a few gay guys who served proudly in the military and they are as patriotic as any run of the mill straight guy.

The only reason this came up was in response to a comment that traditionalists don't tend to be flagburners - which as we all know, is true. That isn't even debatable. The only person who leaped to any conclusions prior to Spartan's comment was some yahoo who shall remain nameless who got all excited and assumed that because McAffrey is gay that some anti gay person burned down his flag.

In response to my comment:

Spartan chimed in:


My question is, how in the world did anyone leap to the conclusion that by discussing the values of the traditional crowd I said anything one way or the other about the values of LGBT crowd? The only way that makes any sense at all would be if Spartan thought I was distinguishing between the two - which, of course, would imply that it must have been someone from the LGBT faction who burned the flag. Which is nonsense, of course. I never said anything one way or the other about the patriotism or flag burning values of the LGBT crowd. For the record, I assume it isn't that much difference than anyone else. I happen to know quite a few gay guys who served proudly in the military and they are as patriotic as any run of the mill straight guy.

The only reason this came up was in response to a comment that traditionalists don't tend to be flagburners - which as we all know, is true. That isn't even debatable. The only person who leaped to any conclusions prior to Spartan's comment was some yahoo who shall remain nameless who got all excited and assumed that because McAffrey is gay that some anti gay person burned down his flag.

I've been called lots of things, Penny, but yahoo is a first. Thanks.

I didn't "get all excited." I said "likely targeting Al McAffrey because he is openly gay."

Let me ask you this, kind, dear, open-minded woman: if someone burned a cross in the front yard of Minister Paul Blair in Edmond -- the anti-gay minister running for the state house -- would it really be an odd leap that someone was targeting him for his beliefs?

I'm not a law enforcement officer, or a member of the Capitol Police, but I would love their input on this: completely random attack of Mesta Park gangmembers / flagburners, or nasty "prank?"

It is funny to see the bickering going on when everyone agrees that what happened was wrong. Okay... You may now carry on...

"This is truly disturbing. And sad." ~ OP TOP O' PAGE

(please allow me a moment to comment...thank y'all)

i don't cottin t' flag burnin' or the alternate spellin' o' flag without the l.
regardless of how cottin might be spelt e-wise 'r th' udder way.

gotta go with KilgoreTrout on this here issue.
('specially on account o' the obscure reference t' Kurt Vonnegut 'n' whutnuts and so forth)

i reckon that the lesson/learnin' opportunty h'yar might be:
Stop Hatin' on Stuff and Stop Burnin' Flags
'Specially in Mesta Park 'n' Thunder Alley.
'Specially if'n y' ain't brought yer own flag t' the burnin'

hope i didn't sound like i was a-bickerin' 'bout stuff/thangs outside o' mah areas/circles o' concern 'n' influence.
thankee fer yer understandin' . . . in advance.

It is funny to see the bickering going on when everyone agrees that what happened was wrong. Okay... You may now carry on...

Well what we have here is different shades of indignation. You have mine and guru's total indignation that is supportive and celebratory of McAffrey. Then you have those who are evidently less supportive of McAffrey in this thread and don't understand (or want to concede) what he means for the liberal movement in Oklahoma.

My question is, how in the world did anyone leap to the conclusion that by discussing the values of the traditional crowd I said anything one way or the other about the values of LGBT crowd? The only way that makes any sense at all would be if Spartan thought I was distinguishing between the two - which, of course, would imply that it must have been someone from the LGBT faction who burned the flag.

Huh? Are you on something? It's ridiculously early and my brain isn't quite working yet, but this is up there with your most warped comments of all time.


The only reason this came up was in response to a comment that traditionalists don't tend to be flagburners - which as we all know, is true. That isn't even debatable. The only person who leaped to any conclusions

I LOL'd :k-bunny: (Don't even know what this smiley means but it seems appropriate). I think I figured out what game this is we're playing, too:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_3mKXQYXAbQ/TbHiBSIt92I/AAAAAAAAB5s/Cuv2KpbfuWI/s1600/jump+to+conclusions+mat+tom.jpg

Regardless of the motivation, I think it is horrible for someone to burn a flag at the home of a veteran on this weekend of all weekends. What a lowlife.

I agree

Well what we have here is different shades of indignation. You have mine and guru's total indignation that is supportive and celebratory of McAffrey. Then you have those who are evidently less supportive of McAffrey in this thread and don't understand (or want to concede) what he means for the liberal movement in Oklahoma.

I think someone can express skepticism, absent ANY information, that this was done to gay bash, without that meaning that someone hates gays or McAffrey. All you are doing, Spartan, is using this disgusting event in an opportunistic manner to create unnecessary bad feelings for some sort of personal agenda that you apparently believe makes you more enlightened than anyone who doesn't automatically assume that since the man is gay, it is all about that.

It is fairly shortsighted of you and anyone else who goes down that road without more evidence to miss the point that even people who don't enthusiastically support the "liberal" movement in Oklahoma recognize that this shouldn't have happened. In fact, the facts of this story make it clear he shares some important values as they do. Instead, you and some like you are up on your high horse and looking for something to divide us. Isn't it enough that people, straight and not straight, have expressed disgust at what happened? Shouldn't that sort of unity be encouraged? Why bring up the whole gay thing and try to beat people over the head with it? As far as the facts as we know it show, this was about defacing an American flag on the yard of an American veteran on Memorial Day weekend, no less. Unfortunately you - and others - try to turn it into something else and insult people, to boot. You aren't just more "indignant" (which you attempt to wear as some type of holy crusader's cloak). You are going out of your way to squander a teachable moment that could bring a community together against a hateful act.

I have come to realize there is no point in arguing with a wall. Congratulations, you win - the correct and proper response is to condemn that someone would burn an American flag, but for that condemnation to make no contextual reference to McAffrey in any way lest it be construed as a dangerous olive branch of support to the insidious gay agenda. PennyQuilts hath spoken. Or blustered (whatever you call her posts).

I have come to realize there is no point in arguing with a wall. Congratulations, you win - the correct and proper response is to condemn that someone would burn an American flag, but for that condemnation to make no contextual reference to McAffrey in any way lest it be construed as a dangerous olive branch of support to the insidious gay agenda. PennyQuilts hath spoken. Or blustered (whatever you call her posts).

At this point, what exactly is the contextual reference to McAffrey and some gay agenda that is supported by the facts that we know? Or to put it another way, why is it even relevant - based on what we know - that he is gay and supports a liberal agenda? Seems to me he is a man, first, and gay second or someplace even further down the line. You seem to want to define him by his orientation and most of the rest of us are seeing past that. How does that make the rest of us have some sort of dysfunctional or disrespectful attitude towards gay people? Isn't that what most gay folk want - to be viewed NOT by their orientation but by the whole person? Seems to me that for so many in the community to be outraged that a veteran had his flag burned is utterly appropriate. That they aren't getting sidetracked by the man's orientation seems like a happy thing. That doesn't mean they aren't aware of it or don't care about it. It means that as a matter of priority/value, most of the community is showing him support and respect. It says that no matter what they feel about homosexuality, they believe that sort of thing is wrong.

And even if this was some ridiculous screwed up anti gay thing, do you really think the community would support that? Even people who are anti gay are disgusted that this happened. Why isn't that something to be proud of? Why lecture people that viewing him simply as a fellow citizen is somehow an anti gay thing? It's the opposite, actually.

At this point, what exactly is the contextual reference to McAffrey and some gay agenda that is supported by the facts that we know? Or to put it another way, why is it even relevant

You're begging the question why is it even relevant that McAffrey is the first openly gay elected state politician??

Nobody ever picked on Martin Luther King or Thelma Parks either. Didn't happen. I'm sure there's no one who wants to do violence or otherwise intimidate Sen. McAffrey. I'm sure Sally Kern's followers would treat him with utmost respect if they saw him in public. Move along -- nothing to see here. I should have realized that the Klan never happened here, we didn't have Jim Crow, all of those memories of people hurling racial epithets at Thomas Lott during OU games didn't happen, gay people never get bullied in school (oh, wait), and people like Mike Reynolds would never throw a temper tantrum in public and blame the gay agenda. None of these things happened in Oklahoma, a hotbed of tolerance on the Plains.

Last I checked there there are way more Sally Kerns, Ralph Shorteys, Mike Reynoldii, than there are McAffreys in the state legislature. So that should be pretty telling. Pick your side. :Smiley204

The crazy thing is that every single one of the embarrassing wackadoos were elected from the OKC area. I can't think of any wackadoos from Tulsa, Lawton (well their senator is a notorious drunk), Stillwater, Enid, Muskogee, just go down the list of the state's other cities...

You're begging the question why is it even relevant that McAffrey is the first openly gay elected state politician??

At this point, absent more facts - yeah. Why is it relevant unless they are connected?

You are going out of your way to squander a teachable moment that could bring a community together against a hateful act.

In order to not squander said moment, maybe it should be pointed out that destroying a flag by fire is referred to as dignified by the flag code. Of course, I don't think it means while the flag is still in good condition and being flown.

Either way, while this thread has been pretty much just people jumping to conclusions in order to dismiss someone else's conclusion jumping, I don't see why mentioning McAffrey's homosexuality or suggesting it was a motivation in context of the flag burning would be divisive. Unless, I guess, one could sympathize with the act based on that criteria.

Enough of the BS, claiming his flag was targeted becuase he's gay is about as likely as him being targeted because he prefers mustard or mayo.

So that would be mustard bashing?

Enough of the BS, claiming his flag was targeted becuase he's gay is about as likely as him being targeted because he prefers mustard or mayo.

Well, I think it is irresponsible to assume the motivations of anyone, but let's be real... if it wasn't some random prank by some uninformed vandals and he was being targeted, then him being gay is the most likely reason. I mean, I guess it could be some economic theorist who disliked McCaffery's fiscal polices so much that he got a buddy, climbed a flagpole and set a flag on fire. Could be, but if forced to speculate, it sure wouldn't be my first guess.

So that would be mustard bashing?

Wait a minute. Does Senator McAffrey prefer mustard? If so, then I understand why someone would vandalize his property. Now, of course, I don't condone that, but I do understand it.

I think Oklahomans, by and large, agree that mayonnaise is the "normal" condiment of choice. Mustard has a tendency to be a little spicy, and probably more acceptable in some of the "blue states." Most of us really have no problems with a person who prefers mustard, but next thing you know, those people have positions of authority or respect in the community. Then, my kids come home from school thinking its okay to prefer mustard rather than the more traditional mayonnaise.

I don't know that we're ready for people openly choosing mustard over mayonnaise.

Wait a minute. Does Senator McAffrey prefer mustard? If so, then I understand why someone would vandalize his property. Now, of course, I don't condone that, but I do understand it.

I think Oklahomans, by and large, agree that mayonnaise is the "normal" condiment of choice. Mustard has a tendency to be a little spicy, and probably more acceptable in some of the "blue states." Most of us really have no problems with a person who prefers mustard, but next thing you know, those people have positions of authority or respect in the community. Then, my kids come home from school thinking its okay to prefer mustard rather than the more traditional mayonnaise.

I don't know that we're ready for people openly choosing mustard over mayonnaise.

Mustard fan here. Guess that means I'm in the clear on the flag massacre.

Neither mustard, mayo or even ketchup/catsup...it was reported that the #1 condiment in the U.S has been picante sauce for a few years now.

Has anyone yet postulated that The Flag Burners--in this case--have about as much Common Sense (as if . . .) as the lad who opened random fire on that crowd in Bricktown? (for no apparent reason)

In other words: You Can't Fix [Cyber]-Stupid?

No matter how much commentary is provided for analysis? =)

Neither mustard, mayo or even ketchup/catsup...it was reported that the #1 condiment in the U.S has been picante sauce for a few years now.

Larry you can take your picante sauce and go to Canada for all I care.

Dog River, Saskatchawan, could always use some Forward Thinking Visionaries . . .
(obscure reference to Corner Gas--available, by request, c/o Netflix =)

Spartan: if you think it will help...should be a bit cooler up there right about now

Just don't tell Penny or your Canadian flag will get burned, you strange picante sauce liking person.

Most red state condiment users prefer ketchup/catsup so this debate is as moot as it is bland.
In Canada, it is a bigger offense to attempt to burn a hockey puck than it is to burn a gay Canadian flag.
Except in Quebec.

Neither mustard, mayo or even ketchup/catsup...it was reported that the #1 condiment in the U.S has been picante sauce for a few years now.

True, but since a lot of it still derives from New York City, we don't have to count it this side of the Mississippi.

True, but since a lot of it still derives from New York City, we don't have to count it this side of the Mississippi.


"New York City?!?"


iVuB806j_-E

All I can say is it's a damn good thing we won The French and Indian Wars
or New York City would be speakin' french and eatin' pemmican . . .

(From "The Days of Early Quebec") . . .
FWBUl7oT9sA

(the guy next to the guy with the crown in the last shot was George Washington)
(the guy on top of the castle wall is Alex Trabek's great-great-great-great grandpa)

My turn...

A few months ago, my trash bins were set on fire and all that was left were two axles and molten shards of petroleum based material. This happened in the 100 block of NE 3rd and the story didn't make the paper, OR, even warrant an investigation by the Police. When I called the police the next day I was directed to the Fire Marshall's office, who simply said I could stop by to pick up a copy of the report if my insurance company needed it. Thankfully, thee trash cans were not under my second floor deck, or I might not be here to debate the issue.

Am I to assume this happened because someone thought I am gay? (That would come as a surprise to my darling wife, kids, grandkids, mother, dog, etc.)

Did it happen because I support the right of anyone to live their own life regardless of sexual orientation. Was it a crime of circumstance, due to the lack of lighting in the area since Level construction began? Was it a neighbor who continually blocks my garage door and has been called on it numerous times?

The point is I will never know, as it was never investigated. Let's not jump to conclusions.

Just don't tell Penny or your Canadian flag will get burned, you strange picante sauce liking person.
I think you may have misunderstood my earlier post...it isn't myself necessarily that has made picante sauce the #1 condiment, it took a lot of others to achieve that ranking. That said I do enjoy a good picante/hot sauce but I usually reserve it for food of the Tex/Mex variety...but have been known to add it to a burger from time to time, but only with tomato, lettuce and onions...making it into taco burger). As I am sure you can attest, Canada is a beautiful country and I wouldn't mind visiting again (last time I was there was in the '70s). I will keep my American flag (hopefully safe from the folks that got Sen. McAffrey's)

I guess that Arson just isn't as offensive a crime as it used to be . . .
(especially if you are ghey . . . or not)

seriously glad that the worst case scenario didn't happen in your case.
of course, if it had, there would probably have been an investigation.
along with a call for more prevention of crimes like that.

of course that sort of investigation would certainly
steal time from activities such as seatbelt law enforcement . . .
so it's like being caught between a rock and a hard place that is on fire.

Has anyone yet postulated that The Flag Burners--in this case--have about as much Common Sense (as if . . .) as the lad who opened random fire on that crowd in Bricktown? (for no apparent reason)

In other words: You Can't Fix [Cyber]-Stupid?

No matter how much commentary is provided for analysis? =)

Fully expecting some moron to post the caper on Youtube. Anyone who didn't stop to think they might be caught on a security camera was either an idiot, or it was an inside job. Not saying it was on security camera but what kind of dumbass wouldn't think of that? The same kind that probably would record it on their iphone and post it, themselves.

My turn...

A few months ago, my trash bins were set on fire and all that was left were two axles and molten shards of petroleum based material. This happened in the 100 block of NE 3rd and the story didn't make the paper, OR, even warrant an investigation by the Police. When I called the police the next day I was directed to the Fire Marshall's office, who simply said I could stop by to pick up a copy of the report if my insurance company needed it. Thankfully, thee trash cans were not under my second floor deck, or I might not be here to debate the issue.

Am I to assume this happened because someone thought I am gay? (That would come as a surprise to my darling wife, kids, grandkids, mother, dog, etc.)

Did it happen because I support the right of anyone to live their own life regardless of sexual orientation. Was it a crime of circumstance, due to the lack of lighting in the area since Level construction began? Was it a neighbor who continually blocks my garage door and has been called on it numerous times?

The point is I will never know, as it was never investigated. Let's not jump to conclusions.

Yeah, but you're NOT a gay elected official and there's nothing symbolic about burning a trash can. I mean, I guess we shouldn't jump to conclusions about the cross that was burned on the front lawn of some Obama supporters in New Jersey, but, come on, I'm pretty sure we all know what that was about and it's certainly more analogous to this flag burning than to your trash can incident.

Fully expecting some moron to post the caper on Youtube. Anyone who didn't stop to think they might be caught on a security camera was either an idiot, or it was an inside job. Not saying it was on security camera but what kind of dumbass wouldn't think of that? The same kind that probably would record it on their iphone and post it, themselves.

Wait a minute . . .
Surely, you aren't suggesting that this was nothing but a public relations stunt, staged by the victim . . .?

Nah. I wouldn't believe that for even a second.
I do, however, have no doubt--whatsoever--regarding the testimony of The TrashCart Arson Victim.
Friggin' Inconsiderate Neighbors blocking driveways are all potential arsonists if called on their Scofflawism.

Translation: "A Wonderful Day In The Neighborhood" begins with YOU (in the general pronoun sense) not being a [jackassholé].
And is that so wrong . . . =)

Is it just my imagination . . .
Or are Gheys becoming far more aggresively defensive than they used to be?

fyi: this is only one example of the reason I spell ghey the way I do, on account of there is nothing remotely gay--or strait--about flag burning, one way or the other even on memorial day or the fourth of july.

Fully expecting some moron to post the caper on Youtube. Anyone who didn't stop to think they might be caught on a security camera was either an idiot, or it was an inside job. Not saying it was on security camera but what kind of dumbass wouldn't think of that? The same kind that probably would record it on their iphone and post it, themselves.

So... let me get this straight, just so I understand your reasoning. It is wrong to assume that vandalizing the property of a State Senator, who happens to be gay, was anything other than a random act of stupidity, but it is not wrong to (subtly) accuse that senator of vandalizing his own property for some personal gain or martyrdom?

Just want to make sure I understand your thought process, as I don't want to jump to any conclusions.

I like to apply a little common sense. When crimes are committed against a public figure, especially a public figure who may be polarizing or controversial, it is probably okay to assume that maybe, just maybe, there was some ulterior motive or message trying to be sent. If you are not a public figure, don't have any teenagers living at home, and have not pissed off your neighbors, then it is probably okay to assume that maybe, probably, you were the victim of random stupidity. (But I guarantee that you will be racking your brain trying to figure out who you have offended to bring on the act.)

Truth is, we will probably never know (barring the Youtube possibility) what really happened. But regardless, it is a damned shame that the occupants and visitors to that home will feel a little less safe for awhile because of the act of some thoughtless jerks.

It never crossed my mind that he did it himself. When I said inside job I wasn't serious - just saying it would be the only way anyone would know that the security was off. Calm yourself. Like most people, I don't give a flip about his sexual orientation. I am so sorry so many other people are absolutely hysterical about it. OMG!! I personally find it creepy that there is such a fixation. Obviously, it wasn't so big a barrier in Oklahoma that he couldn't get elected.

It never crossed my mind that he did it himself. When I said inside job I wasn't serious - just saying it would be the only way anyone would know that the security was off. Calm yourself. Like most people, I don't give a flip about his sexual orientation. I am so sorry so many other people are absolutely hysterical about it. OMG!! I personally find it creepy that there is such a fixation. Obviously, it wasn't so big a barrier in Oklahoma that he couldn't get elected.

It wasn't a hindrance to him being elected because he represents a liberal district. It is still a big deal he is the state's first openly gay state senator. He would most likely NOT be elected in most of the other senate districts around Oklahoma City.

Like most people, I don't give a flip about his sexual orientation.

Unfortunately, many people are clearly not like you and our current representation at the capitol would actually suggest that most do, in fact, give a flip about people's sexual orientation. I agree there is a lot of hysteria or, more accurately, phobia over this not uncommon idea that the gay community somehow poses a threat to the broader community at large, but what I am shocked about is how many people seem to be suggesting that Oklahomans are pervasively indifferent to homosexuality and that suggesting there might be aggression towards gays in Oklahoma is somehow absurd. That's just not reality. Look, when rights are institutionally applied to all Oklahoma citizens without regard to sexual orientation, then we'll know that most people really don't give a flip about a person's sexual orientation. However, as it is now, the opposite is true.

... Calm yourself. Like most people, I don't give a flip about his sexual orientation. I am so sorry so many other people are absolutely hysterical about it. OMG!! I personally find it creepy that there is such a fixation. Obviously, it wasn't so big a barrier in Oklahoma that he couldn't get elected.

"Calm yourself." I thought my comments were pretty calm, just trying to understand your thought process.

Your comments about not understanding why there is a "fixation" on his sexual orientation would be very similar to saying you don't understand why people make a big deal out of President Obama being black. Historic firsts, are just that, historic. Whether you think it is good or bad that he is the first openly gay senator, you can't deny that he is the first, and that it is historic. Like it or not, for awhile, that is how the public will define him.

Some folks vote for/against others due to their sexual orientation, or their gender, or the color of their skin or a myriad other reasons. I too don't really care one way of the other if McAffrey is gay or not, what would matter to me is does re represent me and will he do what he said he was going to do? Just like I didn't care about Jim Roth's orientation when I voted for him as County Commissioner. Liked the job he did there and although I thought he would do/did do a good job as Corporation Commissioner, I didn't vote against him because he was gay. I voted against him because he violated the most basic promise to his county constituents when he accepted the appointment. I have done the same with other folks that I had voted for.