View Full Version : Pedestrian Barriers at Intersections



Just the facts
04-09-2012, 09:13 PM
While doing my usual perusing and research of pedestrian environments I thought I would take a look at pedestrian barriers. I think it would be great to start putting these in around downtown OKC. Not only are they a safety barrier at intersection for pedestrian but they also add character to intersections. Of course, not every intersection would need one but I was thinking the two traffic circles on 10th would be a good place to start and maybe at the intersections in AA. These would be especially helpful at intersection where there is no on-street parking or other barriers. At corners where there are crosswalks there would be an opening in the fence.

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/trafficfence.jpg

Sorry for the crude rendering but this is what it would like along Broadway.

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/trafficfence2.jpg

BoulderSooner
04-10-2012, 06:25 AM
unnecessary

Just the facts
04-10-2012, 06:45 AM
unnecessary

Why, because there are not many pedestrians?

BoulderSooner
04-10-2012, 07:50 AM
Why, because there are not many pedestrians?

are there lots of people walking into the street and getting hit at that or any intersection downtown??

Just the facts
04-10-2012, 08:03 AM
are there lots of people walking into the street and getting hit at that or any intersection downtown??

The benefit of making the sidewalks more inviting to pedestrians is that it will encourage more pedestrians. Plus the railings make a nice addition to the streetscape. With the railing in place it would also allow for some outdoor seating if the place on the corner served food.

BoulderSooner
04-10-2012, 08:07 AM
The benefit of making the sidewalks more inviting to pedestrians is that it will encourage more pedestrians. Plus the railings make a nice addition to the streetscape. With the railing in place it would also allow for some outdoor seating if the place on the corner served food.

and if they wanted to serve beer/wine they would need another railing closer to the building not in the public ROW

Spartan
04-11-2012, 09:52 PM
I don't think this would be a positive addition, and I don't think they're considered inviting in Europe. That picture would roughly equate to the Scandinavian version of Memorial and Penn in terms of walkability.

ljbab728
04-11-2012, 10:00 PM
I don't think this would be a positive addition, and I don't think they're considered inviting in Europe. That picture would roughly equate to the Scandinavian version of Memorial and Penn in terms of walkability.

I agree, Spartan. There is evidence to support the idea that curbside parking adds to walkability but I don't see it in the barriers.

ljbab728
04-11-2012, 11:13 PM
I think the broadcast to cars that they can go faster because pedestrians are constrained.

That's why curbside parking works better. Driver's have to use caution because the parked cars could pull out into traffic.

oneforone
04-12-2012, 12:04 AM
If anything, these just act as heads up to both drivers and pedestrians. It's not going to stop people from crossing the street improperly they will just jump over the railing.

I blame this problem on the lack of common sense and the fact we don't respect the things that can be dangerous in our society. We think that nothing will happen and if it does we can sue somebody and hit the jackpot.

Spartan
04-12-2012, 12:54 AM
I don't want to pile on. As always, I love Kerry's ability to seek out solutions and ideas. I personally am not a fan. I think the broadcast to cars that they can go faster because pedestrians are constrained. I would rather see real protection like steel bollards installed and let pedestrians legally cross through the whole radii.

Yeah, bollards would be great.

The problem with the fencing is that they create a physical boundary that follows the outline of the pavement, and in cases where a bump-out doesn't exist to squeeze the intersection back to pedestrian scale temporarily, it exacerbates walkability problems at rounded intersections conducive to helping automobiles turn at high speeds. We don't have bump-outs in OKC, so this addition would make things significantly worse.

To Kerry's credit, again not wanting to pile onto a good poster, the problem is not with the barrier fencing itself.

CuatrodeMayo
04-12-2012, 07:29 AM
Or we could do the opposite: http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,448747,00.html

1205

Just the facts
04-12-2012, 08:56 AM
I am all for slowing down traffic. My suggestion for railings (or bollards if those are prefered) was only for areas where on-street parking, or other traffic calming techiques, are not available. You couldn't even use a fence were on-street parking is available because the passengers couldn't open their doors. I am looking at the railings more as functional street decoration.

Skyline
04-12-2012, 09:03 AM
Doesn't Okc already have enough Pedestrian Barriers? ... LOL

Just the facts
04-12-2012, 09:27 AM
Doesn't Okc already have enough Pedestrian Barriers? ... LOL

Yep. Just to further clarrify, the barricade would not run the entire length of the block. It would only be for about 10 to 15 feet at interections where on-street parking wasn't available. There would be openings at the crosswalk where people will be crossing.

BoulderSooner
04-12-2012, 09:39 AM
Yep. Just to further clarrify, the barricade would not run the entire length of the block. It would only be for about 10 to 15 feet at interections where on-street parking wasn't available. There would be openings at the crosswalk where people will be crossing.

again for what purpose? are people getting hit at intersections?

Just the facts
04-12-2012, 10:01 AM
again for what purpose? are people getting hit at intersections?

To enhance the perceived safety of the sidewalk with decorative barriers. Are these railings going to stop a car doing 45 mph? Nope. Put up a concrete bollards and you could stop a speeding car but they aren't usually decorative and probably not really necessary as you point out.

BoulderSooner
04-12-2012, 10:10 AM
To enhance the perceived safety of the sidewalk with decorative barriers. Are these railings going to stop a car doing 45 mph? Nope. Put up a concrete bollards and you could stop a speeding car but they aren't usually decorative and probably not really necessary as you point out.

i don't think there is a perception that they are unsafe now

Larry OKC
04-12-2012, 10:36 AM
What Sid said: Similar but different, we have those fences along the sidewalks going under the overpasses at Memorial & Penn...letting the pedestrians & cars now that they should remain separate but equal

Just the facts
04-12-2012, 10:36 AM
That makes more sense. Basically what you are trying to do is draw attention to the area and say "Hey, this piece of concrete here means something. It is for people. You can tell it is for people because we put people-sized fencing in this little area." Just defining the space better as a true pedestrian area.

Yes, that is what I was going for - defining space. This is just a step up from Les Nesman putting tape on the floor around his cubicle (which is actually done in manufacturing plants and is proven effective).

Larry OKC
04-12-2012, 10:40 AM
JTF: ...you are on a roll today...LOL

Skyline
04-12-2012, 10:53 AM
I'll settle for installing better crosswalks first.

Just the facts
04-12-2012, 10:58 AM
I'll settle for installing better crosswalks first.

I noticed that Automobile Alley doen't even have defined crosswalks unless you count the brick pavers that actually cover the entire intersection .

Larry OKC
04-12-2012, 01:49 PM
Part of the now delayed plans of Project180??? Or is AA not part of that...

Just the facts
04-12-2012, 02:08 PM
AA is not part of 180. I think P180 has defined sidewalks.

Spartan
04-13-2012, 03:00 PM
I'll settle for installing better crosswalks first.

We need more mid-block crossings downtown

Just the facts
04-13-2012, 03:18 PM
We need more mid-block crossings downtown

Did you have any specific locations in mind?

I though about that in the past but there are a couple of problems with it. You lose 2 to 4 on-street parking spaces, it works best in areas where speeds are under 20 mph, and it would be a challenge to install signage where drivers could see it in time to stop safely.

rcjunkie
04-14-2012, 12:01 PM
I noticed that Automobile Alley doen't even have defined crosswalks unless you count the brick pavers that actually cover the entire intersection .

Do people honestly need identified crosswalks. My 3 year old granddaughrter knows you only cross at an intersection.

Double Edge
04-14-2012, 01:16 PM
There are more than just rules...and they are different depending on marking.

As with vehicles, pedestrians are also subject to traffic regulations. The State of Oklahoma, under Title 47, specifically addresses the laws that pedestrians must abide by to avoid being injured in an auto/pedestrian accident.
(47 O.S. 11-501 a.) Pedestrians shall obey the instructions of any official traffic control device specifically applicable to him/her, unless otherwise directed by a police officer."

Pedestrians Right of Way in Crosswalks

(47 O.S. 11-502 a.) When traffic control signals are not in place, or not in operation, the driver of a vehicle must yield the right of way, either by slowing down or stopping, if need be to do so yield, to a pedestrian crossing the roadway within a crosswalk when the pedestrian is upon the half of the roadway upon which the vehicle is traveling, or when the pedestrian is approaching so closely from the opposite half of the roadway as to be in danger.

(47 O.S. 11-502 b.) No pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb or other place of safety and walk or run into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.

(47 O.S. 11-502 d.) Whenever any vehicle is stopped at a marked crosswalk or at any unmarked crosswalk at an intersection to permit a pedestrian to cross the roadway, the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear shall not overtake and pass such stopped vehicle.

Pedestrian Crossing at other than Crosswalk

(47 O.S. 11-503 a) Every pedestrian crossing a roadway at any point other than within a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right of way to all vehicles upon the roadway.

(47 O.S. 503 c.) Between adjacent intersections at which traffic-control signals are in operation pedestrians shall not cross at any place except in a marked crosswalk.

Where to Walk in a Crosswalk

(47 O.S. 11-505 ) Pedestrians shall move, whenever practicable, upon the right half of crosswalks.

Pedestrians on Roadways

(47 O.S. 11-506 a. ) Where sidewalks are provided, it shall be unlawful for any pedestrian to walk along and upon an adjacent roadway.

(47 O.S. 11-506 b.) Where sidewalks are not provided, any pedestrian walking along and upon a highway shall, when practicable, walk only on the left side of the roadway or its shoulder facing traffic which may approach from the opposite direction and shall yield to approaching vehicles.

http://www.ouhsc.edu/police/PersonalSafety/Crosswalks_Pedestrians.asp