View Full Version : ONG SCAM - Temperature adjustment fee



WilliamTell
04-06-2012, 11:35 AM
I just got off the phone with ONG and from my bill of a 69 dollar amount I was charged almost 20 dollars in a temperature adjustment fee. This fee has been charged each month this winter because of the higher than normal temperatures and this month is the largest by far which finally made me notice it.

You can OPT OUT OF THIS FEE but the manager refused to credit me this months or previous monthly charges.

This is a scam, charged 20 dollars because its warm outside and i didn't use as much natural gas?!?

kevinpate
04-06-2012, 12:16 PM
I have never seen such a fee on my ong. I presume it's connected to a particular rate plan if it's an opt out item for you and is non-existent for moi. fwiw, finding such a fee would also raise my temp a notch if it had been on my bill.

Sheetkeecker
04-06-2012, 12:16 PM
What about the "BTU adjustment" where they say their gas "burns hotter". WTF is that?
I have a bad track record dealing with utility people, so I'll just read other's experiences.

WilliamTell
04-06-2012, 12:18 PM
Here is the link to the temp adjustment on their website.

http://www.oklahomanaturalgas.com/CustomerCare/UnderstandingYourBill/TemperatureAdjustment.aspx

I'm just so hot about this right now - a 1/3rd of my bill is for not using as much natural gas!!!!

I cant believe that they will not refund me a 20 dollar fee that they charged me because its warm outside, and it makes me mad going back through my previous bills and seeing all the charges that they slid in under my nose.

What type of corrupt corporation are they! Fees for it being warm outside, are you serious!

blangtang
04-06-2012, 12:25 PM
i never really look at that bill all that closely, but just for the heck of it i looked and my Temperature Adjustment for the most recent bill was $1.76. not sure why mine is a negligible amount...

If you really want to get upset you should try to figure out how they charge you $4.735 per dekatherm when the spot price of natural gas yesterday was around $2.10 per MCF. They claim to not make a profit on the sale of the gas, only on the service of delivering it.

WilliamTell
04-06-2012, 12:35 PM
i never really look at that bill all that closely, but just for the heck of it i looked and my Temperature Adjustment for the most recent bill was $1.76. not sure why mine is a negligible amount...



Have you got your new bill yet? I got an email two days ago with my new bill and thats when i first noticed the huge charge. Going back through my history this is the first bill that its been large enough to notice, before this current bill it was 2-6 dollars so it never caught my eye until now.

ou48A
04-06-2012, 12:37 PM
i never really look at that bill all that closely, but just for the heck of it i looked and my Temperature Adjustment for the most recent bill was $1.76. not sure why mine is a negligible amount...

If you really want to get upset you should try to figure out how they charge you $4.735 per dekatherm when the spot price of natural gas yesterday was around $2.10 per MCF. They claim to not make a profit on the sale of the gas, only on the service of delivering it.

Hedged contracts… when the spot price was well over 10 bucks a few years ago we did not get charged the full cost.
But I had ONG take my gas meter out about a year ago so I don’t have an ONG bill.

I wonder how much more NG will drop. I have heard predictions as low as $1.36

windowphobe
04-06-2012, 08:31 PM
I've never seen this either. (Then again, OG&E has lots of different rate schedules, and the one I'm on changes the rate three times a year.)

This is, I have determined by poking through the tariffs, a Rate Plan A issue. (I'm on Plan B, which means I pay a higher, but flat, service charge; Plan A has a lower service charge but also a delivery fee - and apparently, also the temperature charge.)

Maynard
04-11-2012, 01:56 PM
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I wonder how much more NG will drop. I have heard predictions as low as $1.36

US GAS: Futures Close -2.5% At $1.981/MMBtu On Supply Glut 04/11 02:31 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--Natural gas futures settle below $2/mmBtu for the first time since January 2002

--Futures lowest at this time of year since 1997

--Storage data expected to show further rise in bloated U.S. inventories

By Dan Strumpf, Jerry A. DiColo and David Bird of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--Natural gas futures settled below $2 a million British thermal units Wednesday for the first time since January 2002, crossing the milestone after weak demand and robust production have driven prices down 52% in the past year.

May-delivery gas on the New York Mercantile Exchange hovered above the $2 mark for much of the day, piercing the level in a last hour of trading and setting fresh lows into the settlement. May gas settled 2.3%, or 4.7 cents, lower, at $ 1.984/mmBtu after moving in a range of $1.979 to $2.047/mmBtu.

Gas traders, analysts and other market watchers have been anticipating the decline to these levels for months as record U.S. inventory levels have signalled that supplies of the fuel are plentiful. Mild winter weather and the warmest March on record only exacerbated the oversupply situation. Now, as warmer spring temperatures arrive, some investors worry that supplies will overtake available storage, sending prices even lower.

"There's no reason we can't plumb even lower," said Stephen Schork, an analyst at the Schork Group. "$1.50 isn't out of the realm at this point."

Front-month gas futures ended at the lowest level for this date since 1997, and traders said expected further gains in bloated supplies could slash prices by a further 10% to 30%, or as low as $1.50/mmBtu, where prices haven't settled since August 1995.

U.S. gas storage data due out at 10:30 a.m. Thursday from the Energy Information Administration are expected to show supplies rose by 25.5 billion cubic feet last week--larger than the five-year average for the week--according to analysts surveyed by Dow Jones Newswires.

A build of that size would put inventory at a record 2.505 trillion cubic feet for this time of year. Stocks would grow to 59.8% above the five-year average and 56.6% above the year-ago level.

"Supply is slaughtering the bulls, still, but what really happens when we make a move below $2?," Pax Saunders, an analyst at Gelber & Associates said a research note before prices fell below the milestone. Much will depend on EIA inventory data, but Saunders sees potential for a further 10% decline to around $1.797/mmBtu. Prices last settled in that neighborhood in March 1999.

Still, Saunders said the drop below $2 in futures prices "is absolutely meaningless. It's a psychological spot at the front of the curve.

"We might see some panic" if calendar 2013 futures prices--ranging from around $3.30 to $3.80/mmBtu--drop below $3/mmBtu, Saunders said. "Until then, why would folks stop drilling. Crude is high" and has been subsidizing output from wells that produce both crude and natural gas, he said.

"Much of the least-economic wells have been cleaned out already," Saunders added.

Futures have been in steady decline for months, plumbing 10-year lows on an almost weekly basis. About half of all U.S. homes are heated using natural gas, and prices typically rise in the winter. But this winter was one of the mildest on record, squelching demand for the fuel.

At the same time, producers have shown little willingness to reduce their record output. The decline in prices hasn't been met with significant cuts to production. In January, Chesapeake Energy Corp. (CHK) and ConocoPhillips (COP) announced output curtailments in response to falling prices, but the cuts represented only a fraction of their production and few other natural-gas producers followed suit.

The number of working gas rigs in the U.S. has fallen 27% over the last year to 647, according to oil-field services provider Baker Hughes Inc. (BHI). The number of oil rigs has risen 50% to 1,329.

But these moves have had little impact as most wells produce a mix of oil and gas--no matter whether they are classified as a natural gas well or an oil well. High oil prices effectively are subsidizing the cost of continued gas production in many cases. At the same time, many producers have locked in higher gas prices on the futures market.

The U.S. Energy Information Administration continues to report record U.S. natural-gas production. Last month, the agency said output in the lower 48 states rose to an all-time high of 72.85 billion cubic feet a day in January, the most recent date for which figures are available.

"We need to stay down below $2 for a little while" to get additional production shut-ins, said Gene McGillian, a broker and analyst at Tradition Energy in Stamford, Conn. "One day won't do it, but if we were to stay down here for one or two weeks, that could convince some people that this is unprofitable."

Trading following the drop below $2 suggests at least a brief pause in declines. Many traders reduced the size of their bets on falling prices to lock in profits, keeping futures from quickly dropping further, said gas trader John Woods, head of JJ Woods Associates.

"Every tick down, people are starting to take money off the table," Woods said. "It's not a liquidation of any type of short position, they are just lightening the books."

Rising output continues to raise fears that the market could run out of space to store gas as early as October. The EIA said Tuesday it expects inventories to rise to 3.923 trillion cubic feet. The agency estimates that about 4.1 trillion cubic feet of working capacity exists across the U.S.

The EIA also slashed its 2012 price forecast by 21%, to $2.51/mmBtu, which would be a 37% drop from 2011 prices. Through Wednesday, front-month Nymex gas has averaged $2.46/mmBtu so far this year, vs. $4.194/mmBtu in the same period a year ago.

Additional gas demand from power generators could ease concerns about extremely tight storage levels, analysts said. Barclays said power generators have been gradually switching off coal plants and turning on gas plants, which are becoming cheaper to run. But many utilities have large inventories of coal or long-term contracts that prevent widespread switching.

"The power system is not prepared to respond that quickly to this much of a drop in gas prices," said Mike Zenker, natural gas analyst at Barclays.

foodiefan
04-11-2012, 04:26 PM
Like Widowphobe, I'm on the flat rate plan, so it's not on my bill. From their website, it appears it is a "leveing" mechanism, lowering the bill when abnormally cold and raising when abnormally warm. Here is their explaination: They begin by stating that Oklahoma weather is typically unpredictable followed by . . . "That's why we created a billing mechanism whereby a portion of your bill is adjusted to reflect normal weather conditions from November through April each year. In simple terms, your bill is adjusted down when the weather is colder than normal. When the weather is warmer than normal, it raises your bill. Because temperatures vary from month to month, the adjustment is different each month.

WilliamTell
04-11-2012, 06:25 PM
Like Widowphobe, I'm on the flat rate plan, so it's not on my bill. From their website, it appears it is a "leveing" mechanism, lowering the bill when abnormally cold and raising when abnormally warm. Here is their explaination: They begin by stating that Oklahoma weather is typically unpredictable followed by . . . "That's why we created a billing mechanism whereby a portion of your bill is adjusted to reflect normal weather conditions from November through April each year. In simple terms, your bill is adjusted down when the weather is colder than normal. When the weather is warmer than normal, it raises your bill. Because temperatures vary from month to month, the adjustment is different each month.

You guys might want to consider changing off of the flat billing plan since natural gas has been at a historic 10 year low for quite some time now. About the temp adjustment i went backthrough my extensive multiyear billing history and ive never recieved a credit, just adjustments UP. Two cents, just wanted to let everyone else know about this "billing mechanism. "

Larry OKC
04-12-2012, 09:27 AM
Sounds like the scam that OGE is running with their "smart meters" trying to spin it as a way for you to save money (if you don't use it...duh) and they charge extra for any that you do use during those hours. Can someone please explain their statement in the radio ads that it cost more for them to produce the electricity between the hours of 2 & 7 pm????

Roadhawg
04-12-2012, 09:40 AM
Mine was $6.09

Roadhawg
04-12-2012, 09:45 AM
You guys might want to consider changing off of the flat billing plan since natural gas has been at a historic 10 year low for quite some time now. About the temp adjustment i went backthrough my extensive multiyear billing history and ive never recieved a credit, just adjustments UP. Two cents, just wanted to let everyone else know about this "billing mechanism. "

I actually have a credit on my December bill.

kevinpate
04-12-2012, 02:25 PM
Sounds like the scam that OGE is running with their "smart meters" trying to spin it as a way for you to save money (if you don't use it...duh) and they charge extra for any that you do use during those hours. Can someone please explain their statement in the radio ads that it cost more for them to produce the electricity between the hours of 2 & 7 pm????

Larry, I presume it is based on they need to be able to meet demand and if peak time demand continues unabated, then they either have to increase output via existing plants or build new plants to meet the peak demand. But if they retrain folk to dial down ac in the afternoon, do laundry and dishes earlier as well, then that softens the peak demand window, and if enough do so, it might avoid bringing new production facility online.

MikeOKC
04-12-2012, 03:03 PM
I just got off the phone with ONG and from my bill of a 69 dollar amount I was charged almost 20 dollars in a temperature adjustment fee. This fee has been charged each month this winter because of the higher than normal temperatures and this month is the largest by far which finally made me notice it.

You can OPT OUT OF THIS FEE but the manager refused to credit me this months or previous monthly charges.

This is a scam, charged 20 dollars because its warm outside and i didn't use as much natural gas?!?

I think WilliamTell is accurate in calling it a scam. The whole ONG structure is a scam as far as I'm concerned. Of course, we all know that they can't profit from the gas - only its "distribution." Yeah, right. Who does profit from the gas? Their parent company: ONEOK.

I think scam is a pretty accurate term for, not only what WilliamTell wrote about, but the whole maze of companies that allow for ONG's parent to profit handsomely.

WilliamTell
04-12-2012, 03:47 PM
Mine was $6.09

I've been talking with the oklahoma something commission (cant remember the name off hand but its the number they give you when you have a complaint). They did an investigation with ONG and ONG is still citing the march period historic high temperatures (highest on record) as a justifiable means to my temperature adjustment which represented a 1/3rd of my bill. The lady is supposed to get back to me about two things.

-Do all customers receive the same 'temp adjustment percentage'?
-And why if i can opt out of this 'service' how did i originally get opted in?


I used around 19 dollars in actual natural gas, and get charged 18 dollars in a temperature adjustment fee...give me a break.


Either way it looks like im going to have to pay the fee, no matter what b.s.excuse about how its within their rights to charge me that fee. This is what lobbyist and being in bed with the government gets you. This is theft, but since they are in bed with each other they made it legal theft.

Larry OKC
04-13-2012, 08:32 AM
Larry, I presume it is based on they need to be able to meet demand and if peak time demand continues unabated, then they either have to increase output via existing plants or build new plants to meet the peak demand. But if they retrain folk to dial down ac in the afternoon, do laundry and dishes earlier as well, then that softens the peak demand window, and if enough do so, it might avoid bringing new production facility online.
I dont disagree, but the way they are trying to spin it makes it sound like folks are saving $100s of dollars by using their "smart meters". Implying that their standard rate is what is charged during the 2 to 7 period and if yo do stuff during the other times of the day, you are getting a savings (something like an early bird special to increase business at a restaurant). However, what they are doing here is the opposite. Their regular rate is what is charged the other 19 hrs a day and they are charging you more for using a product during those times. Unfortunately, with my work schedule those times are almost precisely when I am going to be home and awake to do those things in my all-electric apt like laundry, appliances and silly things like air conditioning and heat. And with their smart meters they can charge you different amounts for usage at specific times. That is WRONG.

IMO

Plus you are paying in advance for the possibility that they might have to build a new power plant or make upgrades to existing? That is why the Corporation Commission exists. they make upgrades and then have to go before the commission and ask for a rate increase to cover their actual increased costs. This whole in advance thing is as absurd of what happens at the pump. You aren't paying for the gasoline you are pumping out of the ground but the possible replacement cost of that gasoline. That is why when oil prices are trending up, prices skyrocket at the pump almost immediately and then float back down when they are trending downward (as a former head of Shell oil put it). Gas stations should be required to base the pice of gasoline on what is actually in the ground. You don't see them raising/lowering prices on any other product in the place the same way they do gasoline.

yukong
04-13-2012, 12:35 PM
I'm on plan B 101 and I do not have any temperature adjustment charges. Do not even have a temperature adjustment catagory. But, I am paying more for the gas than the current commodity price. But of course they purchase it way in advance.

stick47
04-14-2012, 09:29 AM
Plus you are paying in advance for the possibility that they might have to build a new power plant or make upgrades to existing? That is why the Corporation Commission exists. they make upgrades and then have to go before the commission and ask for a rate increase to cover their actual increased costs. This whole in advance thing is as absurd of what happens at the pump. You aren't paying for the gasoline you are pumping out of the ground but the possible replacement cost of that gasoline. That is why when oil prices are trending up, prices skyrocket at the pump almost immediately and then float back down when they are trending downward (as a former head of Shell oil put it). Gas stations should be required to base the pice of gasoline on what is actually in the ground. You don't see them raising/lowering prices on any other product in the place the same way they do gasoline.

On the subject of gas pricing, it won't work if you pay the price for gas at the rate the vendor paid to get it. Say Nguyen bought 5,000 gallons at $3.50/gl and sold it at the standard markup of 7 cents and collected $17,850 on those 5,000 gallons. To replace that gas the fuel jobbers next delivery cost Nguyen $3.75/gl. After credit & debit card fees on his previous sales he only has $17475 remaining of his $17850 but at $3.75 he's only going to be able to purchase 4,660 gallons of gas. As that scenario continues it will reach a point that Nguyen won't have any gas to sell.
The only other possible scenario is for Nguyen to use his own capital or borrow to maintain his 5,000 gallons of inventory and I doubt that would ever happen.

Diesel54
04-15-2012, 06:57 PM
I was charged a $22 temperature adjustment fee on this month's bill, a little over a fourth of the cost. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'll call and complain so I can at least opt out of the fee in the future.

Diesel54
04-15-2012, 07:07 PM
Well, my wife just looked through bills for the last few years and overall this program has worked out in our favor. I take everything back.