View Full Version : Marines and free speech

03-09-2012, 12:32 AM

While, obviously, even anyone in the military has a right to their opinions, some fail to realize there their have to be restraints in how they exercise that right when they're in the military. Without that the military would be incohesive and in constant chaos. I'm sure the courts will agree.

03-09-2012, 04:12 AM
I am not a fan of Obama to say the least however, he did take an just like I did back in 1995 when Clinton was in office.(Not a fan of his either.)

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

You don't have to like anybody in your chain of command (the President of the United States is in your chain of command). However, you have to follow orders unless it's something that is in clear violation of the law or violates commons sense ethics. When it falls into violation of law or ethics you best be ready to explain yourself and have the evidence to back yourself up. You can still go to non judicial punishment and/or court martial for not following a direct order regardless of reason if the superior wants to push it and his superiors will stand behind him.

In the end, this kind of stupidity is going to do nothing but harm his military career. Just simply because he will be seen as someone who cannot separate his personal life from his military life.

03-09-2012, 06:38 AM
I'm speechless.

03-09-2012, 07:26 AM
That's the same as saying you won't follow your company commander's orders. I'm a strong 1st Amendment supporter but if this person doesn't want to follow his Commander in Chief's orders then he should be dishonorably discharged from the military.

I agree about how his unit will react or have his back when he needed it most.

This reminds me of the ones that join the National Guard for the benefits but when called up for duty they refuse because they don't want to go into battle. What did they think the military did?

03-10-2012, 08:53 AM
There is no question about this - this Marine is obligated to follow the LAWFUL orders of the military and civilian leadership of the armed forces. An individual service member's political preference as opposed to the elected civilian leadership is irrelevant. It is very clear in the UNiform Code of Military Justice that free speech ends when it comes to denigrating the civilian and uniformed leadership. Disagreement is fine, but making public pronouncements is wrong.

(I also HATE service members being used as backdrops behind politicians giving a speech. If we cannot voice certain opinions, then they should not be permitted to use service members as props.)

To answer the issue of people taking the benefits and then protesting when a deployment comes up - it is kind of the military's fault. Prior to 9/11 we actually marketed ourselves as a scholarship and jobs training program with the possibility of getting to see the world. At that time, it meant being stationed in Germany - or heaven forbid South Korea. The ensuing years after 9/11, and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan dependence upon reserve and National Guard forces should have put the idea of getting free college to bed forever. The active forces used this marketing ploy as well for many years - with the Marine Corps being the exception (I love their commercials that focus on service and honor!) I am happy to see the other services move more in that direction.

03-10-2012, 10:54 AM
Dishonorable discharge time...Hope it was worth it dude

03-10-2012, 12:14 PM
Dishonorable discharge time...Hope it was worth it dude

At worst he will probably get a general discharge[under other than honorable conditions}or he may even get a article 15 aka non judical punishment.

03-10-2012, 01:04 PM
This was far more common than a lot of people think. I joined after 9/11 and I still heard the "you wont go to war" rhetoric. It wasn't until the invasion of Iraq (2003) that any hope of not going to war was gone for guardsman.

For the record, I didn't join thinking I wouldn't have a chance. I joined for the opportunity. But I know a lot of people, especially folks who were already in, that felt differently.

You sound a lot like me - I got out in 1999, but was in a recruiting office on 9/12.

03-10-2012, 03:09 PM
You sound a lot like me - I got out in 1999, but was in a recruiting office on 9/12.

I was in but too old to go back in after 9/11

03-11-2012, 06:44 AM
There is really no question - this guy should be dishonorably discharged asap.

03-19-2012, 12:38 PM
I will be really surprised if he is discharged. This is more of a non-judicial punishment issue. He definitely has reduction in rank,45 and 45 in his future. 45 days of restriction to base and 45 days of extra duty assignments (manual labor).

I am sure he is having a truckload of bad days. His first stop was probably a close door meeting with the senior enlisted staff. I am sure each of those ladies and gentlemen throughly explained to him his duties as a marine in a very loud and upfront manner. He will only go to Court Martial if he requests it.

Most Commanding Officers understand that sometimes their troops get a little carried away and shoot of their mouthes. However, his CO will probably make it a point to hold a open session to prove a point. As former military member, I can tell you the last place you want to be is open in front of the whole command. People lose respect for you and it's a huge blow to your self respect. I was a good sailor and learned to speak my mind when appropriate (at the bar after work). I just witnessed a few during my time in.

03-21-2012, 09:25 PM
Looks like it finally hit the fan for this guy.

03-22-2012, 07:57 AM
Looks like it finally hit the fan for this guy.

Wow... this guy was a recruiter.

"He said he was removed from his job at the Marine Corps Recruiting Depot in San Diego on Wednesday and given a desk job with no access to computers."

03-23-2012, 05:16 AM
It was an important time to step up. The experience changed me forever and I wouldn't trade it for the world. Did you make it across the pond?

A couple times. It is a life changing experience - amazing how trivial some things that we once thought were so important become with a little perspective.

04-06-2012, 09:32 AM
CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. (AP) — A military board has recommended dismissal for a Marine sergeant who criticized President Barack Obama on his Facebook page, including allegedly putting the president's face on a "Jackass" movie poster.

The Marine Corps administrative board said after a daylong hearing late Thursday at Camp Pendleton that Sgt. Gary Stein has committed misconduct and should be dismissed.

The board also recommended that Stein be given an other-than-honorable discharge. That would mean Stein would lose his benefits and would not be allowed on any military base.

The board's recommendations go to a general who will either accept or deny them. If the general disagrees with the board, the case could go to the secretary of the Navy.

Read more:

04-06-2012, 10:24 AM
I'm no fan of the current Commander in Chief, but the Marine had no right or reasonable expectation of the right to post what he did.

04-25-2012, 10:28 PM

In spite of his loss of military benefits I doubt he will much financially to worry about. He will become a tea party favorite.

04-26-2012, 01:20 AM
Not, necessarily most people know that you surrender certain rights when you enter the military. Most Tea Party types will look at it as he should have kept his trap shut. You can't shoot your mouth off in the military and not expect punishment. You keep your opinions to yourself and follow orders. When you get out. You can speak your mind all you want provided you do not discuss classified information.