http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/cache/2/bipd41dgl3vqr0eqw4nw5hmm/144466102142012010018475.PDF

Hmmm... project 180? Fact check?

Is this one of those links that doesn't work after a while?

Probably. Many links at the Okc City website seem to be quite temporary, particularly concerning city council matters, in my experience. If one wants to save a file he/she sees there, the best policy is to save it to your computer while it is still there and then, if desired, uploaded it to your own more permanent server, and then link to that personally uploaded location. Otherwise, some files land up in la-la land, as far as internet locating purposes are concerned.

You can't copy a city link from your browser address bar, you have to right click on the document, go to properties, and copy that value. The link posted above is in the temporary internet files of krisb's computer.

http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/agdocs.aspx?doctype=agenda&itemid=60730

They want to rename Bicentennial Park to Larry Nichols Park.

My personal opinion of Larry Nichols was pretty high at one time but is now dropping like a lead ballon. I can't believe that the justification for doing this is because he pays property taxes - that he directed to fix up the land around HIS building. What a piece of work. With the P180 funding shortage we now know why he insisted that his area get done first.

I am not a big fan of naming things after people anyhow.

Another morning when online reality, real reality are so, so, far apart...

Another morning when online reality, real reality are so, so, far apart...

What do you mean? It says right in the letter that justification is for funding Project 180. Project 180 is funed by property taxes that would otherwise go to the city at-large if the TIF districts didn't exist. Devon pre-paid these taxes for the express purpose that the money would go to fix up the area around Devon Tower. If the TIF didn't exist do you think Devon would have pre-paid their property tax?

Did Larry ask for the park to be renamed as part of the deal? I think not.

I wish they had 5 parks downtown that they could name after people, if those folks were as influential in a positive manner as Mr Nichols.

Didnt they loan the money, not prepay?

Why some people continuosly hate on people who actually substantialy aid this city is beyond belief. Larry has been super generous with his time, money and leadership. Guess that makes him despicable.

... The policy requires the Park Commission to consider, in a public meeting, any written request to rename an existing facility and to require 30 days for public comment. This item constitutes the public hearing. Following the 30-day period, the Commission may recommend action on the request to the City Council.

Recommendation: Receive the Request.


In other words, if Joe Sixpack sent in a request to rename the park after His favorite Stripper from Valley Brook, it appears this same basic process would have to be followed under the city's naming policy.

Might be a tad early for any outrage.

Didnt they loan the money, not prepay?

Why some people continuosly hate on people who actually substantialy aid this city is beyond belief. Larry has been super generous with his time, money and leadership. Guess that makes him despicable.

That is correct - he will repay himself with interest from future taxes. I am not saying that makes him dispicable - I am saying that doesn't qualify him for "park naming" status. I hope this gets rejected - or withdrawn by Larry Nichols himself.

Yes, we wouldnt want to name a park after someone who greatly helps the city over many years and is an outstanding citizen and business leader. Better to let them be anonomously resented anyway.

I know the name, not the man.
If the city wants to name something after him, fine and dandy.
I would prefer it not be Bicentennial Park, but that's just the simple view of a non-resident.

What a complete non-issue. Are we seriously going to argue over Larry Nichols getting a park named after him?

What a complete non-issue. Are we seriously going to argue over Larry Nichols getting a park named after him?

Kind of silly isn't it...

It is not just a park - it is the park between City Hall and the Civic Center.

However, let's just leave it at - opposition noted.

the reality is that most of the time TIF dollars go to help the project itself work ... devon could have requested all or all most all of the TIF money to go to the devon sight .IE building the garage/underground/utilities /anything else ...

devon instead requested that money to be used on entire CBD project 180 .. and that was a huge huge unpresidented deal doesn't devon indirectly benifit from p180 sure .. but so does the vast majority of OKC

Maybe they can rename it after Garth Brooks?

Bigray in Ok

the reality is that most of the time TIF dollars go to help the project itself work ... devon could have requested all or all most all of the TIF money to go to the devon sight .IE building the garage/underground/utilities /anything else ...

devon instead requested that money to be used on entire CBD project 180 .. and that was a huge huge unpresidented deal doesn't devon indirectly benifit from p180 sure .. but so does the vast majority of OKC

I'm not arguing against TIF districts - I like them, but there was no way the City was going to vote for a TIF district specifically for the Devon Tower site. That decision was not up to Larry, it was up to the City Council. Project 180 is millions of dollar out of wack and will be years behind schedule - no one should be getting an honorable mention because of it. They need to be spreading around the blame, not the accolades.

Okay, that is my final word on the subject until after the vote.

I'm not arguing against TIF districts - I like them, but there was no way the City was going to vote for a TIF district specifically for the Devon Tower site. That decision was not up to Larry, it was up to the City Council. Project 180 is millions of dollar out of wack and will be years behind schedule - no one should be getting an honorable mention because of it. They need to be spreading around the blame, not the accolades.

Okay, that is my final word on the subject until after the vote.

the TIF district is ONLY the devon site .... the money is being spent all over down town .... the city would have approved it either way .. if was/is a project that is great for OKC

Nichols has also been involved in dozens of civic organizations and has been a tireless promoter of OKC and downtown in particular.

My issues with P180 stem from budgetary/planning gaffes; Nichols leadership and vision have been stellar.

That is correct - he will repay himself with interest from future taxes. I am not saying that makes him dispicable - I am saying that doesn't qualify him for "park naming" status. I hope this gets rejected - or withdrawn by Larry Nichols himself.

As an emotional and rabid supporter of downtown you should be promoting Larry instead of denigrating him for all he has done in support of OKC and, in particular, downtown OKC. Who is doing more at this time for raising the visibility and viability of downtown than Devon and LN? Why the hate? Is it resentment or envy?

OK - if people keep directing questions at me I guess I need to answer them.

No I don't hate Larry Nichols and I am not envious of him. I guess what rubs me the wrong way about is the elitism inherent in it. Nearly 600,000 people go to work in OKC every day, pay their taxes, work hard, volunteer countless hours, hold doors open for people, assist strangers with flat tires, and do their part to make OKC better. 2,500 of these people even work at Devon Energy. Bicentennial Park was constructed and maintained by the fine people of Oklahoma City - I just don't like naming public buildings, roads, or parks after people. If L.N. wants a park named after him he should by a lot, put some grass on it, and put up a sign. Public infrastructure should not be for sale.

BTW – I feel the same way about Norick Library, so it isn’t just L.N. Now, if 50 years after L.N. dies they want to name something after him I probably wouldn’t oppose it.

How would everyone feel about the new iconic boulevard being called Larry Nichols Boulevard?

Or a street named Gaylord? Or Lake Hefner? Or.....?

Or a street named Gaylord? Or Lake Hefner? Or.....?

Check, check, check ...

I guess that makes me consistent.

If Bicentennial actually honored those Oklahoma Citians who were instrumental in the independence of the US I guess it would be more sacred. Given that OKC didn't exist then, I can't think of any that come to mind. However, as an intimate park that is very city centric and considering the area it resides in, honoring a specific OKCityian who has been very influential in a positive way for the improvement of the specific and immediate area actually seems more appropriate.

All of these parks are on the City's website. This is just a sampling of parks that have been named after people, either historical, or named after those who have contributed significantly to the parks department or City as a whole.

If this park was renamed for Nichols, it would be in keeping with a long-standing tradition.


Bob Akers Park
Diggs Park
Dolese Youth Park
Douglass Park
Draper Park
Dulaney Park
E.B. Jeffrey Park
EW Perry Park
Jack W. Cornett Park
J.B. Black Park
John F. Kennedy Park
Kerr Park
Lipper Park
Lorraine Thomas Park
Mark Twain Park
Pat Murphy Park
Pitts Park
Red Andrews Park
Washington Park
Wiley Post Park
Will Rogers Park
Zach D. Taylor Park

It seems OKC loves to name parks after (white?) dudes.

It seems OKC loves to name parks after (white?) dudes.

What are you talking about ?

Sorry for the bad link, everyone. I will do better next time.

I don't mind renaming the park, it just seems symbolic of the rapid pace efforts to redesign the park without respect to its history and without a public input process.

OK - if people keep directing questions at me I guess I need to answer them.

No I don't hate Larry Nichols and I am not envious of him. I guess what rubs me the wrong way about is the elitism inherent in it. Nearly 600,000 people go to work in OKC every day, pay their taxes, work hard, volunteer countless hours, hold doors open for people, assist strangers with flat tires, and do their part to make OKC better. 2,500 of these people even work at Devon Energy. Bicentennial Park was constructed and maintained by the fine people of Oklahoma City - I just don't like naming public buildings, roads, or parks after people. If L.N. wants a park named after him he should by a lot, put some grass on it, and put up a sign. Public infrastructure should not be for sale.

BTW – I feel the same way about Norick Library, so it isn’t just L.N. Now, if 50 years after L.N. dies they want to name something after him I probably wouldn’t oppose it.

How would everyone feel about the new iconic boulevard being called Larry Nichols Boulevard?

It would be arrogant of me to presume to know for sure who is or isn't deserving of having a park named after them. However, it seems to me that the name Bicentennial Park is a federal honor and this park is between two core municipal buildings. The current park seemingly does nothing to honor the actions leading up to the freedom of our country, nothing significant happened at that site regarding our country's freedom, and no Oklahoma City forefathers were involved in bringing freedom to the states (1776-1907 is a long gap). I don't believe there are displays or monuments to the actual events that led to our freedom, are there?

Therefore, it seems a lot more appropriate that it honor an important person in the development of our city - someone alive now or who lived earlier that impacted OKC....and given where the park is, someone who impacted downtown OKC. If that is Larry Nichols, so be it. He is probably as worthy as others. If it isn't named for him, I doubt he will shed a tear or lose a minute of sleep as he didn't do any of the things he has done for this city for the purpose of earning a name on a slab of grass.

I am sorry some see the respect and thanks given to people who were exceptionally generous with their time and money as being "elitist". If so, I sure hope we foster a huge "elite" class in this city. To do so does nothing to disrespect the thousands who toil without acclaim and will never have a park named for them. But to honor those who have made outstanding contributions does show that our society respects and admires those that go above and beyond.

Check, check, check ...

I guess that makes me consistent.

Ahh...but consistently WHAT?

devon instead requested that money to be used on entire CBD project 180 .. and that was a huge huge unpresidented deal

Of course it was unpresidented. Nichols is the CEO, not president. But seriously, its a shame Ralph Ellison doesn't have a park named after him. He is a Pulitzer prize winner and was fond of Oklahoma City, as this poem called Deep Second shows:http://www.nathanielturner.com/oklahomacitymusicdeepdeuce.htm I guess we should pretend its not racism though.

Ellison has a library named after him and just a few days ago they installed a sculpture there as well:

http://newsok.com/northeast-oklahoma-city-library-sculpture-honors-author-ralph-ellison/article/3647624

afternoon musings. . . .wonder what it was called before "Bicentennial Park"? Or was it just a vacant lot? A lot of town and cities did various commemorations and parks for the Bicentennial. If it was previously a park, wonder if there was a naming flap then as well. . .'spose whatever the decision, it might end up being re-named again in 64 years (anyone for "Tricentennial Park"??)

See what happens when you start naming things after people - no one is happy.

I am not fond of the name Bicentennial Park either as it doesn't describe the location, function, or origin. I think place names should mean something. I would prefer Civic Park.

Ralph Ellison also has a street named after him.

All I'm saying is if a white guy from Oklahoma City won the pulitzer prize for fiction, wouldn't he have a major area named after him downtown? The library and street are far away from the area he grew up. And I'm not black so I'm not bitter about this, but I think it would heal some racial wounds. Didn't mean to hijack

EDIT: This is one of the many sources that claims he won a Pulitzer:http://digital.library.okstate.edu/encyclopedia/entries/S/SE004.html It appears there is a lot of misinformation out there, to use Steve's term. But I stand by my point. I suspect he was a Pulitzer finalist, but they only keep record of that award on their website going back to 1980.

Ellison won a National Book Award, not a Pulitzer. Sorry to nitpick.

All I'm saying is if a white guy from Oklahoma City won the pulitzer prize for fiction, wouldn't he have a major area named after him downtown? The library and street are far away from the area he grew up. And I'm not black so I'm not bitter about this, but I think it would heal some racial wounds. Didn't mean to hijack

I guess all you need to do is fill out a form to have Bicentennial Park renamed Ralph Ellison Park. LOL - that would be interesting to watch.

afternoon musings. . . .wonder what it was called before "Bicentennial Park"? Or was it just a vacant lot? A lot of town and cities did various commemorations and parks for the Bicentennial. If it was previously a park, wonder if there was a naming flap then as well. . .'spose whatever the decision, it might end up being re-named again in 64 years (anyone for "Tricentennial Park"??)

It was originally called Civic Center Park.

It was originally called Civic Center Park.

I vote for changing it back to that.

So, we should have no problems with the name Okahoma City Boulevard, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Just name things just what they are. Requires no imagination and no one gets their feelings hurt. That will convey a sense of history and accomplishments....oh no, just location. LOL.

I guess all you need to do is fill out a form to have Bicentennial Park renamed Ralph Ellison Park. LOL - that would be interesting to watch.
Regardless of the name, it should be called plaza, pavilion or garden. Too small for a park.

Ralph Ellison is arguably the coolest historical OKC homegrown product... and he grew up near downtown! That statue thing for him at the library is horendously bad. Maybe the worst I've ever seen. I know their is a street with his name, but naming the new Boulevard - Ellison BLVD - would be awesome. It just has a nice sound IMHO.

So, we should have no problems with the name Okahoma City Boulevard, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Just name things just what they are. Requires no imagination and no one gets their feelings hurt. That will convey a sense of history and accomplishments....oh no, just location. LOL.

Oklahoma City Boulevard sucks no doubt - but it is better than Larry Nichols Boulevard. Somewhere there is a whole thread on names for OKC Boulevard that either describe its location, it function, or it origin. No need rehashing that here.

It was originally called Civic Center Park.

Thanks FritterGirl. . . do you know if it was/became an "issue" when it was renamed Bicentennial Park?

Naming a park, plaza, pavillion, or garden in honor of Larry Nichols would be very fitting for all he has done for this community. It is probably accurate to say that this city would not be as far along as it without his committment to build the tower, not to mention the countless non-profit contributions that go on and on. One would hope that is not in question, nor his character. 50 years from now his name will be in the history books much like the Hefner's, Classen's, and others alike. LN is hardly an elitest. Nichols Park, LN Plaza, LN Park at Civic Center.......all sound fine with me......

All of these parks are on the City's website. This is just a sampling of parks that have been named after people, either historical, or named after those who have contributed significantly to the parks department or City as a whole.

If this park was renamed for Nichols, it would be in keeping with a long-standing tradition.


Bob Akers Park
Diggs Park
Dolese Youth Park
Douglass Park
Draper Park
Dulaney Park
E.B. Jeffrey Park
EW Perry Park
Jack W. Cornett Park
J.B. Black Park
John F. Kennedy Park
Kerr Park
Lipper Park
Lorraine Thomas Park
Mark Twain Park
Pat Murphy Park
Pitts Park
Red Andrews Park
Washington Park
Wiley Post Park
Will Rogers Park
Zach D. Taylor Park

At least one of those names is attached to someone who had quite a bit of shady dealings, not so honorable a history if everything they did were publicly known.

It seems OKC loves to name parks after (white?) dudes.

What else can you say but "WOW".

Thanks FritterGirl. . . do you know if it was/became an "issue" when it was renamed Bicentennial Park?

Yes it was. Archives show promoters of the name were insisting it had to be done in a hurry as part of the celebrations of the country's bicentennial year and their efforts to place monuments on the site, including a "bunker" that eventually became nothing more than a place for transients to piss, drink, sniff spray paint and "entertain" themselves. The bunker was removed and the monuments were re-set in their current configuration as part of a park makeover done a decade ago.

Yes it was. Archives show promoters of the name were insisting it had to be done in a hurry as part of the celebrations of the country's bicentennial year and their efforts to place monuments on the site, including a "bunker" that eventually became nothing more than a place for transients to piss, drink, sniff spray paint and "entertain" themselves. The bunker was removed and the monuments were re-set in their current configuration as part of a park makeover done a decade ago.

Did 1976 sneak up on people?

Did 1976 sneak up on people?

Yeah, but then again, 75 was pretty much a year long party in its own right.

If Bicentennial Park doesn't get approved for a make-over do you think they will go forward with the renaming?

If they insist on renaming it, do it right and go back to the original name, Civic Center Park, it is more fitting. We have too many monuments/highways/parks/plazas named ten different things because they want to rename it after someone every "x" number of years.

I can't help but wonder if Mr. Nichols is driving this whole process because he wants things to be done a certain way at a certain time.

Having met him personally on several occasions, he doesn't seem the ego type that wants the name recognition, but I could see him wanting it done right.

If the park is to be renamed in honor of any individual, can anyone suggest a more deserving person than Larry Nichols? Rather than tearing down people, how about presenting the names of our outstanding citizens - we're blessed with many.

If the park is to be renamed in honor of any individual, can anyone suggest a more deserving person than Larry Nichols? Rather than tearing down people, how about presenting the names of our outstanding citizens - we're blessed with many.

The park holds multiple tributes to OKC leaders from the past. The plan is to remove all of those and rename the whole park Larry Nichols Park - one big giant memorial to a single person where multiple small memorials currently reside. Give Larry a bronze bust and put it in the park with the other ones, then change name back to Civic Center Park. This is turning into the OKC version of tearing up Hollywood's Walk of Fame, putting down new concrete, and calling it Lady Gaga Walk.