Please follow me...these raise very important questions.

How many people know this? The OU Medical Center is not a part of the University of Oklahoma. Hint: not many.

Could you blame them? The OU Med Center website is full of OU connections. Look at the navigational bar at the top of the home page of the OU Medical Center.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2h4f0pe.jpg

The bottom of the website (this is important):

http://i41.tinypic.com/2qxyts8.jpg

The OU Medical Center website is copyrighted by the Board of Regents. Why?

The OU Medical Center is a for-profit hospital owned and operated by HCA (Hospital Corporation of America). Locally, it is owned as "HCA Health Services of Oklahoma." DBA (Doing Business As) "OU Medical Center" Would you guess that by all the OU references and links at the OU Medical Center website? Their advertising? The use of the University of Oklahoma LOGO?

Here is a full-page advertisement in the latest issue of TIME Magazine:

http://i43.tinypic.com/14cz6o6.jpg

At the bottom of the ad is this small disclaimer in small print:

http://i42.tinypic.com/21kzfyc.jpg

So....which is it? The Board of Regents owns the copyright (and apparently maintains) the OU Medical Center website. Yet, the OU Medical Center is an entity owned privately - with no connection to the University of Oklahoma.

This for-profit hospital gets a lot of mileage out of being connected to the OU Physicians (owned by OU) and the Health Sciences Center (owned by OU) and even calls itself in its "About Us" page an "academic hospital." HCA and the University of Oklahoma - do they both want it both ways?

How much overlap is really going on here? How much is the University of Oklahoma basically subsidizing this for-profit hospital chain (an infamous one at that)?

In a real world - this shell game would be investigated by local media. Don't look for that to happen. You don't cross David Boren. But these are legitimate questions.

Or, put another way, how much does HCA pay in licensing fees for the OU branding and/or access to those programs owned and operated by OU?

I dunno which way the subsidy runs, but I will say I'm not aware of OU being in the habit of skipping over the opportunity to raise funds through any legal means at the regents disposal.

Or, put another way, how much does HCA pay in licensing fees for the OU branding and/or access to those programs owned and operated by OU?

I dunno which way the subsidy runs, but I will say I'm not aware of OU being in the habit of skipping over the opportunity to raise funds through any legal means at the regents disposal.

This questionable branding looks more like a win/win for both parties. For the general public to be drilled with the name "OU Medical Center", it reeks of deception and misrepresentation. A shell game using the for-profit hospital and the co-mingling of the OU providers, etc. It looks prestigious for the school to have a hospital - but in fact, it doesn't.

By the way, a tip-off is the .com address. Within the last several minutes I have visited 12 university hospitals on the web. They all have .edu addresses - because the hospital is actually a part of the university. Imagine that! Example of a university hospital and its description on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Nebraska_Medical_Center and their website: http://www.unmc.edu/ ... edit: Looking around some more, the .edu is not universal. Some use the .com for easy branding even when owned by the University system. Another example: the self-financing KU Med Center http://www.kumed.com/annualreport/2010/ owned by KU. The University of Arkansas owns the Arkansas Medical Sciences Hospital: http://www.uams.edu/ on and on it goes. With a name like "OU Medical Center" you would think that OU has something to do with it, huh? Nope.

There is a difference between OU Medical School and OU Medical Center.

Who said anything about the school? The hospital, the so-called "OU Medical Center" is a for-profit hospital owned and operated by HCA.

In a real world - this shell game would be investigated by local media. Don't look for that to happen. You don't cross David Boren. But these are legitimate questions.

Mike, no offense, but in the real world this deal has been reported on repeatedly by The Oklahoman, beginning with coverage of the original deal. Unless you've got some reason to think there is corruption involved here, not sure why an investigation is needed. Here's the story that reported the deal:
3 hospitals may take OU name Regents OK deal; HCA nod needed

By Steve Lackmeyer
Staff Writer
Saturday, May 12, 2001
Edition: CITY, Section: NEWS, Page 1-A
Dateline: NORMAN
Linked Objects: (Click image for details)
NORMAN - A $1.5 million deal is in the works between University Health Partners and the University of Oklahoma that will brand Presbyterian Hospital, University Hospital and Childrens Hospital of Oklahoma as part of the "OU Medical Center."

The licensing agreement, approved unanimously Friday by the OU Board of Regents, awaits approval later this month by board members of HCA Health Services of Oklahoma, which oversees University Health Partners.

University Health Partners operates the three hospitals and proposed the deal that would let it use the "OU Medical Center" name and OU logo on signs, publications, advertising, promotions, conferences and presentations.

OU President David Boren praised HCA's operation of the university's teaching hospitals during the past several years.

"It's been a wonderful partnership," Boren told regents. "We moved from great deficits... to a break-even situation. And we're continuing to do better. We were very much at risk at one point."

At the same meeting, regents renamed University Physicians Group to OU Physicians.

Boren said he hopes the two actions will help end years of public confusion over the university's involvement in the health sciences district just east of downtown Oklahoma City. He said the university only recently won a highway sign on Interstate 235, to the west of the campus.

"This is a huge concentration of medical talent in one place," Boren said. "And I think the use of the university's name really highlights that for us."

University Health Partners President Jerry Maier said he believes promotion of the OU Medical Center brand will help spark respect for the hospitals and physicians.

"This agreement is more than marketing to us," Maier said. "It really reflects the strength of the partnership... it helps bring clarity and focus to the campus."

"Nobody understands us. When you talk about the Oklahoma Health Center, there are at least five different names it gets referenced to. I know some people in town who don't even know where the Oklahoma Health Center is or what it is."

Boren said the renaming of the physicians group is equally significant, as the group prepares to move the practices of 156 of its 400 doctors to a 178,000-square-foot medical office building being built at the OU Health Sciences Center that adjoins the three hospitals.

OU Physicians is the largest multispecialty-specialty group in the state and includes doctors who care for adult and pediatric patients across Oklahoma. The physicians also are on the faculty of the University of Oklahoma College of Medicine.

Boren said $500,000 of the proceeds of the pending license agreement will pay for campus improvements, including courtyards, terraces, sidewalks, lighting and historical markers. The OU logo has been posted on buildings .

The former U.S. senator promised the identity overhaul will continue.

"I used to listen for advertising spots all the time for Johns Hopkins driving into the Capitol for work," Boren said . "There was a Johns Hopkins physicians clinic, a Johns Hopkins hospital, and everything was branded Johns Hopkins because it's known as a very, very strong medical school. So I'd love to hear the same with OU."

HCA is owns/operate the clinical side of OU Medical Center. The university operates the classroom side of the house. If OU ran both sides the cost would be astronomical. Most universities run things this way the hospital is usually a private or city, state or county government owned facility.

Integris Southwest operates a observer/medical student and Residency program through OSU.
http://www.healthsciences.okstate.edu/college/resident-intern/ismc.cfm

Mike, no offense, but in the real world this deal has been reported on repeatedly by The Oklahoman, beginning with coverage of the original deal. Unless you've got some reason to think there is corruption involved here, not sure why an investigation is needed. Here's the story that reported the deal:
3 hospitals may take OU name Regents OK deal; HCA nod needed

By Steve Lackmeyer
Staff Writer
Saturday, May 12, 2001
Edition: CITY, Section: NEWS, Page 1-A
Dateline: NORMAN
Linked Objects: (Click image for details)
NORMAN - A $1.5 million deal is in the works between University Health Partners and the University of Oklahoma that will brand Presbyterian Hospital, University Hospital and Childrens Hospital of Oklahoma as part of the "OU Medical Center."

The licensing agreement, approved unanimously Friday by the OU Board of Regents, awaits approval later this month by board members of HCA Health Services of Oklahoma, which oversees University Health Partners.

University Health Partners operates the three hospitals and proposed the deal that would let it use the "OU Medical Center" name and OU logo on signs, publications, advertising, promotions, conferences and presentations.

OU President David Boren praised HCA's operation of the university's teaching hospitals during the past several years.

"It's been a wonderful partnership," Boren told regents. "We moved from great deficits... to a break-even situation. And we're continuing to do better. We were very much at risk at one point."

At the same meeting, regents renamed University Physicians Group to OU Physicians.

Boren said he hopes the two actions will help end years of public confusion over the university's involvement in the health sciences district just east of downtown Oklahoma City. He said the university only recently won a highway sign on Interstate 235, to the west of the campus.

"This is a huge concentration of medical talent in one place," Boren said. "And I think the use of the university's name really highlights that for us."

University Health Partners President Jerry Maier said he believes promotion of the OU Medical Center brand will help spark respect for the hospitals and physicians.

"This agreement is more than marketing to us," Maier said. "It really reflects the strength of the partnership... it helps bring clarity and focus to the campus."

"Nobody understands us. When you talk about the Oklahoma Health Center, there are at least five different names it gets referenced to. I know some people in town who don't even know where the Oklahoma Health Center is or what it is."

Boren said the renaming of the physicians group is equally significant, as the group prepares to move the practices of 156 of its 400 doctors to a 178,000-square-foot medical office building being built at the OU Health Sciences Center that adjoins the three hospitals.

OU Physicians is the largest multispecialty-specialty group in the state and includes doctors who care for adult and pediatric patients across Oklahoma. The physicians also are on the faculty of the University of Oklahoma College of Medicine.

Boren said $500,000 of the proceeds of the pending license agreement will pay for campus improvements, including courtyards, terraces, sidewalks, lighting and historical markers. The OU logo has been posted on buildings .

The former U.S. senator promised the identity overhaul will continue.

"I used to listen for advertising spots all the time for Johns Hopkins driving into the Capitol for work," Boren said . "There was a Johns Hopkins physicians clinic, a Johns Hopkins hospital, and everything was branded Johns Hopkins because it's known as a very, very strong medical school. So I'd love to hear the same with OU."

Hi Steve. I knew this was nothing new. My mother was there when it was still Columbia/HCA. I know it was covered in 2001 - 11 years ago. I also know that nobody probably paid much attention. Fast forward to 2012 and look at how this looks. It's a total misrepresentation. OU does NOT have a hospital. Why does the Board of Regents at OU take care of the "OU Medical Center" website when the Board of Regents is state-run and the "OU" hospital is a for-profit corporation?

Was all the co-mingling with OU expected?

Just calling it the "OU Medical Center" doesn't make it so. It now has nothing to do with the university. Hasn't in years. But the marketing step-up once again calls attention to this rather deceptive arrangement that makes it look as if OU has its own "teaching hospital," when in fact, OU provides this for-profit hospital with its physicians, etc. Some may call this a shell game, others a "front," but one thing it is not: an OU hospital. Looks good, sounds good, they brag about it - but all the profits roll into Tennessee.

Just because something was done 11 years ago in "branding," does not mean it's never open for discussion again. Today's healthcare climate is different and this phony "OU Medical Center" is presented to the public as a part of this one big university medical campus. Just one problem - OU doesn't have a hospital.

I understand your point, Steve, but I can guarantee you 99% of the people of Oklahoma don't know that a hospital called, "The OU Medical Center" is not a part of the University of Oklahoma. It's just sad that the state university system couldn't support a hospital, so they just branded a for-profit chain with "OU". I think it's wrong and worth discussion again.

HCA is owns/operate the clinical side of OU Medical Center. The university operates the classroom side of the house. If OU ran both sides the cost would be astronomical. Most universities run things this way the hospital is usually a private or city, state or county government owned facility.

Integris Southwest operates a observer/medical student and Residency program through OSU.
http://www.healthsciences.okstate.edu/college/resident-intern/ismc.cfm

Wrong. Most teaching hospitals are owned by their respective university systems. Look at KU's Annual Report. Look around. Maybe OU has made it appear that way - or tells everybody this - but it's simply not true. The "clinical side" is the profitable side. This is the "hospital side." These profits, (at the "OU Medical Center") go to a for-profit chain riddled in the past with controversy.

As per OSU and Integris, it's clear from the very first page of the website what the score is. OU has made a deliberate attempt to deceive in their marketing. Newspaper article in 2001 - or not.

One question that could use answering - why does the state maintain the copyright and maintenance of the HCA owned hospital? (See above pic of copyright notice.)

Mike, it may be worth discussing but I see this as a big non-issue and 99% of the people of Oklahoma could care less.

Mike, it may be worth discussing but I see this as a big non-issue and 99% of the people of Oklahoma could care less.

That's how sweetheart deals always work. They rely on public ignorance and apathy.

Another thought...

Maybe M.D. Anderson and Johns Hopkins should just license the use of their name at hospitals across the country. Nobody will notice the fine print that M.D. Anderson and Johns Hopkins are not affiliated with these hospitals - they just licensed the use of their name. How would that go over? Maybe OU football should outsource its football team - that "OU" on the helmets? Well...you see...several years ago.....(just kidding, folks).

The physicians at the hospital are all affiliated with the College of Medicine and medical students at OU rotate through there.

Mike, I'm just trying to get a grasp on why this is an issue to you - what made you stop and go, "hey, this is an outrage, something must be done to let people know about this" ?

Not exactly news, many former university affiliated non-profit hospitals are no longer the same type of operations. The entire healthcare world has changed greatly and that seems to be an older model that has fallen out of favor, much in part to the exposure of the schools to liability concerns and the rising cost of healthcare and reimbursement from the gov't, insurance companies and patients. Just because something is a "non-profit" doesn't mean they can operate much differently than a "for profit" business. My wife has worked for "working non-profits" for 20 years and they still have the same (if not worse) budgetary constraints that face "for profit" entities. the non-profit model is a difficult one to keep going in the rapidly changing health care world.

The Baylor Health System and the Baylor College of Medicine school are not owned by Baylor University or managed by them with the health care system and university agreeing to a severance of ties in 1997 and the medical school ties were severed in 1969. The health care system sold off many branches because they lost many millions in the 80-90's and considered selling out to Tenant Health around the same time the school severed ties because of those losses.

Wrong. Most teaching hospitals are owned by their respective university systems. Look at KU's Annual Report. Look around. Maybe OU has made it appear that way - or tells everybody this - but it's simply not true. The "clinical side" is the profitable side. This is the "hospital side." These profits, (at the "OU Medical Center") go to a for-profit chain riddled in the past with controversy. ...(See above pic of copyright notice.)

It may be the profitable side, however from Boren's statement "We moved from great deficits... to a break-even situation", it was not profitable for OU.

That's how sweetheart deals always work. They rely on public ignorance and apathy.

But this is a case where ignorance and apathy don't matter. It's just not important. Some people may not understand the connections but so what? How is anyone being harmed?

Please note this from Steve's article.


Boren said $500,000 of the proceeds of the pending license agreement will pay for campus improvements, including courtyards, terraces, sidewalks, lighting and historical markers. The OU logo has been posted on buildings .


Is this a bad thing? These improvements might not have been made otherwise or would have had to come from some other kind of funding.

????

Mike, I'm just trying to get a grasp on why this is an issue to you - what made you stop and go, "hey, this is an outrage, something must be done to let people know about this" ?

Yeah, I'm not sure I get it either. I'm with everyone else, this seems to be a non-issue.

AND...


The physicians at the hospital are all affiliated with the College of Medicine and medical students at OU rotate through there.

betts is absolutly right. I once had a friend who lived in Mesta Park who was housing a foriegn OU student. He walked to the OU Medical Center every day because that is where he was a studying.

And finally, about that .com / .edu thing:

http://www.ouhsc.edu/
A quick look at the "Colleges and Departments" link will reveal that the only college website with .com is the College of Medicine which still functions as a part of the University of Oklahoma. All others are .edu addresses. What this tells me is that the University operates the Medical Center in conjunction with the HCA meaning that this "issue" is about a partnership between the two entities and there exists absolutly no conspiracy to cover up some nefarious plan to mislead the public.

I am not seeing a huge deal here other than just another example of naming rights/branding. Does one expect Cox to own the building or have their corporate offices inside the Cox Convention Center? Chesapeake to own the Arena? Etc. I will admit that it always seemed a strange location for the OU Hospital to be located in OKC rather than where the University is mainly located (Norman)

I am not seeing a huge deal here other than just another example of naming rights/branding. Does one expect Cox to own the building or have their corporate offices inside the Cox Convention Center? Chesapeake to own the Arena? Etc. I will admit that it always seemed a strange location for the OU Hospital to be located in OKC rather than where the University is mainly located (Norman)

Since the Baylor Medical Center is in Dallas it's not that unusual. A large medical school benefits greatly by being in a being in an Urban area.

I am sure there are notable exceptions. Just seems odd. Just like seeing OSU here in OKC & Tulsa. Does OU have a branded hospital in Norman by chance? Does Baylor have a medical center in Waco?

I am sure there are notable exceptions. Just seems odd. Just like seeing OSU here in OKC & Tulsa. Does OU have a branded hospital in Norman by chance? Does Baylor have a medical center in Waco?

I think the only OU branded medical care in Norman is at the campus clinic. Norman regional does not have any OU branding.

I am not seeing a huge deal here other than just another example of naming rights/branding. Does one expect Cox to own the building or have their corporate offices inside the Cox Convention Center? Chesapeake to own the Arena? Etc. I will admit that it always seemed a strange location for the OU Hospital to be located in OKC rather than where the University is mainly located (Norman)

FWIW, the OU College of Medicine is the largest part of OU's Health Sciences Center. It is located in OKC, not Norman. The OU College of Dentistry is also located at the Health Sciences complex in OKC.

Worked there when it was a public entity and through the transition, trust me, the facility and tax payers are far better off that the hospital was privatized. I was in the marketing and public relations department and the transition was widely covered and was a good thing - though I did manage to work myself out of a sweet job.

Since the Baylor Medical Center is in Dallas it's not that unusual. A large medical school benefits greatly by being in a being in an Urban area.
The Baylor College of Medicine is actually in Houston near the health center campuses of many hospitals including MD Anderson Cancer Center. The Baylor College of Denistry is in Dallas and really part of the Texas A&M Health Science Center. The Texas A&M Health Science System has five campuses, Bryan/College Station, Corpus Christi, Round Rock, Temple and Houston.

Texas A&M Health Science Center - Campuses (http://medicine.tamhsc.edu/)
About TAMHSC-Baylor College of Dentistry (http://www.tambcd.edu/about/index.html)
About the Baylor College of Medicine (http://www.bcm.edu/about/)

The University of Texas System has 6 medical campuses, none in Austin. They are in Dallas, Galveston, 2 in Houston (including MD Anderson), San Antonio and Tyler.


I am sure there are notable exceptions. Just seems odd. Just like seeing OSU here in OKC & Tulsa. Does OU have a branded hospital in Norman by chance? Does Baylor have a medical center in Waco?
No Baylor hospitals in Waco, the hospital in Waco is Hillcrest Hospital run by Temple based Scott & White. It was recently built on the south edge of Waco on I-35.

The University of Colorado School of Medicine is in Aurora at the Anschutz Medical Campus (http://www.ucdenver.edu/about/denver/Pages/AnschutzMedicalCampus.aspx). It is still affiliated with the university.

I have read that many of the "university hospitals" have management agreements with the healthcare corporations of the world while retaining the physical property and medical school portions of the campus. I would think there are all kinds of different arrangements for the various health campuses across the country.

It seems like this is where a public/private partnership makes sense to all involved. But I have to confess I thought OU Medical Center was a "traditional" teaching hospital until today. As long as patients recieve the care they need and the students are properly trained, it is probably best to have someone else (HCA) handle the support/administrative side of running the hospital.

There's no conspiracy here. FYI - i work in medical billing and so i interact with hospitals all over the country....public/private/for and non-profit/etc. You name the type of facility and we work with them. OU Med Center isn't doing anything that isn't being done all over the country. HCA simply manages the facility because it offers an economy of scale that reduces cost to the patient. We all love to gripe (and rightly so) that medical costs are far higher than they should be. But if you think it's high now, just wait and see what it would look like if the facility tried to do everythin on its own. My company exists to create that economy of scale and I can prove to you how having someone do that work is better for everyone. From a compliance, cost, beneft, etc...all sides it's better. Time and time again we see how (especially smaller facilities) try to do it all on their own because they think it isn't that much work. Then things start falling through the cracks and money is hemoraged from the facilty because they don't catch it (ie government dollars, proper insurance filing, poor documentation training for the docs...etc).

Also remember how many different hospitals are now under the OU umbrella. Everyone had their own way of doing things. Having an outside vendor manage the facility means that you also have a more experienced group there to bring everyone under one way of doing things.

Think about the advances the facility has had in the last 10 years as well. All the new improvements, construction, technology, etc. None of that would be there if OU was trying to do it on their own. Why is that? Because not making the OU folks (who are academics, NOT hospital admins) do the admin work allows them to focus on what they should....teaching and providing care. The fundraising has been incredible and the government supportive funding is there as well. A simple for-profit facility wouldn't get that. Each part of the center now focuses on their own core process and leverages the others for support...ie shared diagnostics. It's inefficient for OU and Presby to both have cancer centers with lienar accelerators "comepting" for radition patients. But with the combined facilties, they even now can afford Proton. ProCure is experiencing the problems that technology has, but OU's still isn't finished. The company that is building OU's is having problems finishing the customer before them....new technology means learning as you build. But that's exactlly what OU is about. You learn so you can teach. You get the newer technology (OU's proton will be cheaper and handle more patients as well that ProCure too), and you help teach the future doctors about it while still teaching today's resources.

I understand why you would feel this way about the facility. But it's just not true. Dealing with medical bills requires a lot more knowledge of the subject matter than the general population has. It also requires a lot more interest in arguing. If I didn't know what I do, I would have had several instances where i would have been overcharged for services that weren't documented (which is illegal) or simply coded incorrectly. It's always a good idea to look over your bill item by item and compare that will your Explanation of Benefits (EOB) from your insurance. You'll find a lot of explanation there. And quite often full payment in a lump sum results in a discount...that depends on the facility or group, but it's always a good way to save money instantly.

There's so much more I could talk about with this to help you feel better about it, but it would really be 50 pages long and an explanation of the whole medical industry and federal regulation. I'm more than happy to discuss it some with you though if you want to PM me.

It needs to noted that OU Medical is not hiding anything. The fact they are privately owned is noted on their paperwork. I attended a MediFlight Orientation course while I was in school at OSU OKC. The class was on how to set up landing zone for the helicopter and what do when then aircraft arrived and departed.

The certificate I had issued to me clearly states "HCA Health Services of Oklahoma INC. D.B.A. OU Medical Center is not a part of, nor operated by the University of Oklahoma."


I am not too fond of HCA because of their business practices however, they are one of the few private companies that successfully run large hospitals that operate mainly off of medicare, medicaid and other social programs.

I am sure there are notable exceptions. Just seems odd. Just like seeing OSU here in OKC & Tulsa. Does OU have a branded hospital in Norman by chance? Does Baylor have a medical center in Waco?

Many of the university affiliated medical schools are in major cities. For instance, Cornell Medical School is in New York City. The University of Colorado Medical Center is in Denver, the University of Kansas Medical Center is in Kansas City, the University of Arkansas Medical Center is in Little Rock, etc. That's because it's easier to create a referral center in a major city - transportation and housing is simpler, and the volume of patients for physicans, residents and students is greater. That allows for greater diversity of illness, which makes it a better teaching center. It's easier to recruit academic physicians to larger cities. And so forth.

The OU Medical Center hospitals are all teaching hospitals. As I said, they all have university affiliated physicians on staff, and they all have residents and medical students. I stay out of the politics of it all, but noticed no significant change when the hospital went from public to private. I seriously doubt much, if any, money is made here, given the fact that many of the patients are on Medicare, Medicaid, SSI or have no insurance and that many of the patients have very complex medical problems not amenable to easy admission and discharge.

Many of the university affiliated medical schools are in major cities.

The University of Florida Hospital is here in Jacksonville but the hospital they work at is Shands. It is much the same situation as OU Medical Center. It is branded as UF Shands.

Yeah, not getting the problem here. I knew there was no formal association when I saw "Not affiliated with the University of Oklahoma" plastered at the bottom of all their commercials. I understood what was going on immediately .

I guess I'm wondering what is perceived as having been "sold but not received" as it were as a result of this supposed "deception?" That is, what specific medical accolade or skill is implicitly advertised by the OU logo that isn't really being provided?

I stand corrected. Couldn't that same logic be used to support the idea of relocating the entire campus?

Be careful in creating an association between those that manage and those that own. Do we know if HCA actually owns the place, or do they only manage it? Not that it really matters, but it's an interesting difference.

HMA actually OWNS Midwest Regional (not that it's really an apples to apples comparison or anything here), and operates it as MRMC. I realize it's not the same thing, but it's an example of the owners now advertising the name. Integris, on the other hand make their name known clearly on all of their facilities, much like St. Frances in Tulsa.

Be careful in creating an association between those that manage and those that own. Do we know if HCA actually owns the place, or do they only manage it? Not that it really matters, but it's an interesting difference.

HMA actually OWNS Midwest Regional (not that it's really an apples to apples comparison or anything here), and operates it as MRMC. I realize it's not the same thing, but it's an example of the owners now advertising the name. Integris, on the other hand make their name known clearly on all of their facilities, much like St. Frances in Tulsa.

I see nothing wrong with brand promotion. It's just like everything else in this world. The day they start advertising like Joe Cooper Ford or David Stanley then I will get a little concerned. Loud commercials, Giant Inflatables, Low priced procedures that expired yesterday even though you saw the commercial ten minutes ago.

It's not that there's anything wrong with it, except they are giving the impression that you are endangering your life by going to a free-standing ER rather than a traditional hospital. Could be grounds for a lawsuit if they aren't careful.

While the hospital portions of OUMC are operated by HCA, there are still pieces owned by the State/OU on campus, for example the OU Physicians/OU Children's Physicians clinics, complete with .edu addresses. http://ouhsc.edu/

It's really kind of confusing because they brand the whole campus as one big complete entity but in reality it's a bunch of separate pieces. I dunno why somebody thought to build that many hospitals all in one area.

Remember they all used to be totally different hospitals. The main part of OU Med Center was Presbyterian Hospital. Next door was OU Health Sciences Center, with Children's down the street, and VA around the corner. The hospitals did not compete with each other and formed the base of what is now the Oklahoma Health Center. That's also why the Presbyterian Health Foundataion is where it is. In the federally regulated days, hospitals couldn't build in each other's territory....but remember each of these did not compete with each other. What they did offer was a central location in the city AND the state. VA, for example, is equipdistant for most locations in the state.

Fast forward to the 90's and DE-regulation comes about and the whole thing goes out the window and groups like HCA become an overnight explosion compared to the previous free-standing days. As public non-profit gives way to private for-profit, things change. And groups like Kaiser Permamente start building hospitals across the street from others, thus putting the old one out of business. But what that has meant for the OHC, is the whole point for HCA, consolidate management services to leverage an economy of scale so things are more efficient on the business side....so the hospital itself can focus on providing care.

With that said, you are correct that parts of it still operate differently. The HSC is still #1 the OU teaching area. It's more than just part of the hospital so it really should operate differently. They still give classes and school related activities there that don't happen in the other buildings. Just look around the area and see the GOOD changes that have come from consolidation in the last 10 years. The facilities alone would never have been possible while each of them operated individually...and the HSC certainly wouldn't have been able to do it even though the OU name is the funding driving force now. It was in danger of closing several times in the 90s.

It may be the profitable side, however from Boren's statement "We moved from great deficits... to a break-even situation", it was not profitable for OU.

I've worked for the teaching hospitals (in their various guises) since 1980, so I know a little about the history of the place. The hospitals were NEVER profitable for OU. Children's was taken from the College of Medicine (COM) in 1973 and given to Lloyd Rader's Welfare Department, after decades of dreadful underfunding. Children's began to flourish with the massive injections of funding from Rader and DHS, while University Hospital continued to struggle with underfunding, and in 1980 University was also placed under DHS. So in fact, the COM hasn't "owned and operated" its hospitals in over 30 years.

The current joint operating agreement between the State, OU and HCA has been in place since 1998 (a long story in its own right). As Steve pointed out, the "OU Medical Center" name was a business decision, reached after market analysis demonstrated the obvious, that in the public's mind, these were the "OU hospitals," so HCA and OU negotiated an agreement whereby HCA could use the OU name and logo for branding purposes (and IMHO, made a lot more sense than the original name, "University Health Partners"). HCA pays OU for the right to use the name and logo, and as the OP has pointed out, all hospital advertising carries the disclaimer that the hospitals are not owned or operated by OU. All of this was covered extensively at the time, as Steve will attest.

Having said all this, we are IN FACT the teaching hospitals for the OU Colleges of Medicine, Dentistry and Allied Health. The medical staff are almost all either COM faculty or residents in one of the COM's residency programs. And to answer one of the OP's questions, the University isn't "subsidizing" HCA at all. HCA pays rent to the state for the University building (which is now Children's Hopital), they pay OU for the rights to use the OU logo and name, and the hospitals are required by the JOA to support the University's missions of healthcare, teaching and research, including a large indigent care load. If anything, HCA is subsidizing the COM.

I don't know what the OP's beef is, but there is absolutely NOTHING misleading or deceptive about the agreement, name, or advertising.

Totally off subject. Their commercials are awesome.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7SsKHLcs74

This is not a big deal to me, but I have to point out that if HCA feels the need to add a fine-print disclaimer, 'not part of, or operated by, the University of Oklahoma,' that's proof in and of itself that they consider the name deceptive.

I don't think it's coincidence that this 'branding' agreement was drafted mere months after HCA pleaded guilty to a first round of Medicare fraud charges. (More would come in 2002.) At the time this agreement was concluded, HCA's reputation had been demolished by its own staggering multi-billion fraud against the taxpayers.

They would be far from the first or last to be hit with something like that though...don't read too much into it there. Companies and cities (fire departments) and all sorts of businesses are placed in Corporate Integritry Agreements for lost laqsuits against the department of justice for medical claim issues. The good companies come out of the CIA's in a better place than they were before because they gain a regulatory thought pattern in how they do things.

Companies argue (and more often win than lose) against claims in and out of court against medicare all the time. You just don't hear about them because it's normal daily work on part of everyone. There are groups in the fed that it's their sole duty to be sort of bully-ish to try and catch someone and then fine them for it. It's actually related to the newer HIPAA-HITECH law changes. It's not that people are doing things wrong, but having someone there watching makes you think a little more about what you are doing....and there cases every day where simple "duh" moments end up costing hundreds of thousands of dollars because of the fine structure. If you knowingly do something on purpose...whoa doggy, you're gonna get it, as you should. But a group as large as HCA can have something build up to a HUGE GINORMOUS fine pretty quickly depending on what the claim is about. But I betcha HCA is a lot more focussed on how they handle things now than they once were. FYI - the late 90's and early 00's was a BIG time for lawsuits as everyone got adjusted to a more regulated industry.