I get it, Dallas is a Big City, with big city ammenities, but what I simply do not get this all encompassing desire to be like Dallas. Folks, OKC is not like Dallas in terms of Scale, Mass, Wealth, etc. It is like Dallas in terms of topography,weather, general western feel. OKC will not and cannot expect to have the volume or diversity of available shopping, eating or entertainment options; it is simply too small relative to Dallas. I really get tired of people on this forum comparing OKC to every city in Texas. There are other cities in this country that we could emmulate besides those in Texas, we might even begin to appeal to a broader more diverse populous if we attempted to embrace some of the develpment, attactions, retail options found in large East and West Coast (oh no!) cities. I may be in the minority but so be it that's my opinion.

I hate Dallas, and I hope we never come close to 'how it is'. I have relatives that live over by Ft Worth and it's amazing to me how thay have to plan their day around the traffic. I could care less about the high end stores, etc.....fwiw

Simple. It is the nearest big city we all go to for the first time. And one we can drive to when in high school, that was a lot of fun and different from and bigger than OKC. Boston people love NYC. The OU-Texas game makes many familiar with it too.

Must depend on your circle of friends. I can't recall the last time anyone I associate with giving the slightest hint they wanted OKC to be more like Dallas.

Sure, its a destination spot because its a big city, not that far away and occasionally offers concerts and venues not found hear - but that scenario applies everywhere across the country.

I get it, Dallas is a Big City, with big city ammenities, but what I simply do not get this all encompassing desire to be like Dallas. Folks, OKC is not like Dallas in terms of Scale, Mass, Wealth, etc. It is like Dallas in terms of topography,weather, general western feel. OKC will not and cannot expect to have the volume or diversity of available shopping, eating or entertainment options; it is simply too small relative to Dallas. I really get tired of people on this forum comparing OKC to every city in Texas. There are other cities in this country that we could emmulate besides those in Texas, we might even begin to appeal to a broader more diverse populous if we attempted to embrace some of the develpment, attactions, retail options found in large East and West Coast (oh no!) cities. I may be in the minority but so be it that's my opinion.

I don't think people in Oklahoma City envy Dallas as much as you think. Anyone with economic sense would know that Oklahoma City will never be a large city like Dallas. Therefore, people who compare Oklahoma City to Dallas is lacking basic sense of economic growth re cities. Dallas is the 4th largest metropolitan area in the nation behind, NYC, LA, Chicago. And it is projected to be the fastest growing metro area in the nation between now and 2020, adding 1.5 million people. It is also considered an Alpha city or Global City. Dallas is a great place to visit, but all it is, is just a big city. I think its fortunate for Oklahoma City to be only 2.5 hrs away from a Alpha City, which actually does benefit Oklahoma City more than people know.

Dallas crush? Oh please. Heck no. Fort Worth or Austin - now those are beautiful girls. But Dallas is butt ugly.

I agree with the above comments, I think it is due to the proximity that there seems to be a "crush-like" feeling. The thing I fear is that we ,as an up and coming city, are trying to emulate things various cities have and are attempting due to unique constraints which we are not facing. I hope OK capitalizes on this moment and momentum to establish our own identity...... shop local(lol).

yea, Austin is my city of choice. If I were to ever move, I would move to Austin.

I have lived here nearly all of my 47 years, and I have absolutely NO desire WHATSOEVER for OKC to be "more like Dallas." In fact, I was infuriated a few years ago when the State Fair folks hired a guy to "revamp" (translate: destroy) our state fairgrounds, and all he did in reality was reinvent it in the image of the Texas State fairgrounds in Dallas.

I have nothing against Dallas, enjoy going there once or twice a year, fun place for OU-Texas, but that's a long way from saying I want OKC to be like them. No reason OKC can't chart its own course, and cherry pick some of the nice things in Dallas (or KC, or StL, or <insert favorite surrounding city>) that we deem appropriate for us.

Yeah, I have no desire for Oklahoma City to be Dallas. I don't know why you decided to create a thread just to get this off your chest but nobody around here has a crush on Dallas and I'm not sure why you believe that. People bring up Dallas but they don't make a big deal about wanting to be them. I'm going to go with the trend and say I prefer Austin over Dallas each and every day as well.

And just so you know, progressiveboy lives in Dallas, not Oklahoma City, you got worked up and created this thread because somebody who lives in Dallas posted something about Dallas... Niccceee......

When people say they don't want to be like Dallas, what does that mean? And is raving over the new 10 lane freeway contradictory?

I think the things most people envy are the restaurants and retail choices and perhaps more big-league pro sports.

Another dumb Dallas rant thread.

When people say they don't want to be like Dallas, what does that mean? And is raving over the new 10 lane freeway contradictory?

It means we want to be our own city, not a mock up of a mega-city. And no, Dallas isn't the only city with a 10-lane freeway.

Yeah, I have no desire for Oklahoma City to be Dallas. I don't know why you decided to create a thread just to get this off your chest but nobody around here has a crush on Dallas and I'm not sure why you believe that. People bring up Dallas but they don't make a big deal about wanting to be them. I'm going to go with the trend and say I prefer Austin over Dallas each and every day as well.

And just so you know, progressiveboy lives in Dallas, not Oklahoma City, you got worked up and created this thread because somebody who lives in Dallas posted something about Dallas... Niccceee......

This thread is odd. But with all due respect to dcsooner, I think he gets a lot of his information of the internet, while coming back very little to this area. I think he has a lot of preconcieved notions about OKC, just judging by the tone of some of his posts (dcsooner you are more than free to correct me if this is not that case).

OKC "imitates" Dallas because we are in the same region and tend to have overlapping characteristics and approachs. Birmingham and Charlotte share a lot of the same traits with Atlanta but I don't think you would find anyone who would say that they have an Atlanta crush.

For whats its worth I think OKC is doing a good job doing its own thing, or at least taking ques from other cities across the US instead of just looking at what others in the region have done. Would you find a river rowing district in Dallas? Unless you want to row in the gloried flood ditch otherwise known as the Trinity River, the answer is no.

Signed, an ex Dallasite who's been living in OKC/Norman for the past 6 years.

If anything I'm crushing on Kansas City, but shes playing hard to get...

It means we want to be our own city, not a mock up of a mega-city. And no, Dallas isn't the only city with a 10-lane freeway.

What does this mean? If OKC wanted to be like Dallas what should we do first?

What does this mean? If OKC wanted to be like Dallas what should we do first?

You seriously don't understand that? LOL you have me stumped, I have no clue what our first move would be to be more like Dallas. Perhaps pack up the city and move it to north Texas?

Yes, I seriously don't understand. Let me ask you the same question a different way. Name one specific thing you don't like about Dallas.

You seriously don't understand that? LOL

Disregard this Kerry, I misunderstood what you were saying.

Yes, I seriously don't understand. Let me ask you the same question a different way. Name one specific thing you don't like about Dallas.

The size of it.

Yes, I seriously don't understand. Let me ask you the same question a different way. Name one specific thing you don't like about Dallas.

I'm in Dallas and Fort Worth 1-2 weekends a month... the things I like about Dallas are the things I like about any more urban city, but you can also see some of the problems. For one, people in Dallas are pretty full of themselves. They think Uptown is some kind of mecca that is unrivaled anywhere. I had some friends who moved from Norman after OU to Uptown and they always talked about how stuck up everyone in the area was. So, while Dallas has some good things, the people leave a lot to be desired. As OKC develops more "upscale" and gentrified areas the same thigng will probably happen. The general humility and unabrasiveness of OKlahoman's is one of our best qualities. I don't want us to end up like the Dallas yuppies. Then we're just another city...

Yes, I seriously don't understand. Let me ask you the same question a different way. Name one specific thing you don't like about Dallas.

It is in Texas. :)

The size of it.

Let me be more specific. The population of it. Also the attitude KT mentioned.

Yes, I seriously don't understand. Let me ask you the same question a different way. Name one specific thing you don't like about Dallas.

Traffic, air pollution, airport (easier to pass thru than check in), HUMIDITY, the brainwashed egos of a few texans.........lol

I'd rather see OKC trying to emulate Denver or Portland than Dallas. Look west not south! (same thing was said when OU was looking for a new conference home)

I'm in Dallas and Fort Worth 1-2 weekends a month... the things I like about Dallas are the things I like about any more urban city, but you can also see some of the problems. For one, people in Dallas are pretty full of themselves. They think Uptown is some kind of mecca that is unrivaled anywhere. I had some friends who moved from Norman after OU to Uptown and they always talked about how stuck up everyone in the area was. So, while Dallas has some good things, the people leave a lot to be desired. As OKC develops more "upscale" and gentrified areas the same thigng will probably happen. The general humility and unabrasiveness of OKlahoman's is one of our best qualities. I don't want us to end up like the Dallas yuppies. Then we're just another city...

I think you are referring to this:
Urban Dictionary: DALLITUDE (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=DALLITUDE)

Traffic, air pollution, airport (easier to pass thru than check in), HUMIDITY, the brainwashed egos of a few texans.........lol

Ok, let's take your first one - traffic. What do you hate about Dallas traffic? Is it the freeways, the city streets, do they drive to fast, are the roads to wide, etc...

Why do you think Dallas has traffic?

My entire family is from Boston and I lived there for a while when I was younger and still frequent the area.Dallas may be a big city in population but in no way shape of form does OKC want to emulate Dallas,atleast I do not.Go to NYC,Boston,Philly,DC or any dense coastal city and Dallas does not FEEL big,I know it is population wise but I like the urban feel over the spread out sprawl feel.OKC should try to emulate cities that are around the metro population of 2million,and have a more dense built up environment and has more transportation options.Austin,SA,KC, Nashville,Charlotte,Indy,Salt Lake are good cities for OKC to look to!

Why do you think Dallas has traffic?
lol lol lol thats a easy question...um didnt someone mention how its the 4th largest metro in the u.s. Also if you look up the statistics, it is one of the largest metro in the u.s with people who own cars and drive everywhere, compared to the amount of people who own cars in n.y or chicago.

Dmoor82, How do you build that density while at the same time freeways are get built that make it easier to live spread out?

Why do you think Dallas has traffic?
lol lol lol thats a easy question...um didnt someone mention how its the 4th largest metro in the u.s. Also if you look up the statistics, it is the largest metro in the u.s with people who own cars and drive everywhere, compared to the amount of people who own cars in n.y or chicago.

London has 5x the population and many of them don't drive anywhere? Do you think the freeways might be what actually causes the sprawl that in turns leads to the bad traffic?

Do you think in the long run the new I-40 will make traffic in OKC better or worse?

jtf^^Are you talking about the new I-40?The old crosstown will be dismantled,so no new hwy has been added.I agree that OKC sprawl is horrendous,but OKC's core is starting to see some great progress and with the streetcar lines and future expansions things will improve,slowly!I found an article by the NYT that said only three cities in America built up their core's more than their fringes or suburbs, and those cities were Boston,Providence and Oklahoma City.I will find the article and post it later.OKC has to start somewhere and right now we're off to a good start!

Ok, let's take your first one - traffic. What do you hate about Dallas traffic? Is it the freeways, the city streets, do they drive to fast, are the roads to wide, etc...

Why do you think Dallas has traffic?

For me, it was when my sister had to plan around a 2 hour window of when to meet another relative for dinner, or supper, just due the complications of trying to be on time half way between Dallas and Ft Worth......due to the road traffic congestion.....

I see where were going here.....

How did I know he was trying to turn this into an anti-freeway discussion... He's just as bad as torea when it comes to repeating himself over and over.

NYT article on how America is going on a suburban sprawlfest. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/weekinreview/12burbs.html a qoute from the article"Of the 51 metropolitan areas with more than 1 million residents, only three — Boston, Providence, and Oklahoma City — saw their core cities grow faster than their suburbs. And the growth is hardly the mono-dimensional suburbia of hoary stereotype."

^^I don't care what anyone say's,that's some good company to be in!

Let me be more specific. The population of it. Also the attitude KT mentioned.

What is it about the population? The US has 300 million people, do you hate it? Probably not, which means the Dallas population isn't the problem, it is how you have to interact with that population that is the problem.

What is it about the population? The US has 300 million people, do you hate it? Probably not, which means the Dallas population isn't the problem, it is how you have to interact with that population that is the problem.

You got me. I hate traffic.

How did I know he was trying to turn this into an anti-freeway discussion... He's just as bad as torea when it comes to repeating himself over and over.

No, you said you hate Dallas and don't want to be like them, and then favor doing in OKC the exact same thing that made Dallas a bad place. I am just asking questions to see if you can make that connection on your own.

You got me. I hate traffic.

Do you like the new I-40? Will it make traffic better or worse?

Do you like the new I-40? Will it make traffic better or worse?

I do like the new I-40 and honestly it's too soon to answer that but I would probably say yes since it's 10 lanes instead of 6.

JTF?The old Crosstown was crumbling and had a worse defficiency rating than the Minnesota bridge that collapsed,not to mention it was only designed to handle 76k/day.The NEW STRETCH of I-40 was needed badly and in the long run is better for OKC's core because it frees up land for dt OKC to expand on.If you think this freeway was such a BAd idea,look at what relocating a hwy has done for other cities especially Denver!

Do you like the new I-40? Will it make traffic better or worse?

This is a dumb question!!!!!The old I-40 did not have breakdown lanes and was crumbling and was only three lanes,it's not rocket science!

No, you said you hate Dallas and don't want to be like them, and then favor doing in OKC the exact same thing that made Dallas a bad place. I am just asking questions to see if you can make that connection on your own.

I made the connection the second I read your first response because I know how you feel about freeways. And I don't hate Dallas, I'm not sure why you're making that assumption. There are characteristics about Dallas I don't like but I don't hate Dallas.

Isn't it wonderful when Just the Facts graces us with the Socratic method so we can reach his conclusion? Everyone just say NEW URBANISM so he'll quit...

If it's really really that easy... New Urbanism.

If it's really really that easy... New Urbanism.

But you have to mean it.

Actually, I am just wondering why people say I hate X about city Y and then say we need more X in OKC. Why would anyone want more of what they hate?

But you have to mean it.

Actually, I am just wondering why people say I hate X about city Y and then say we need more X in OKC. Why would anyone want more of what they hate?

The answer to that can vary but I suppose the most reasonable would be jealousy.

But you have to mean it.

Actually, I am just wondering why people say I hate X about city Y and then say we need more X in OKC. Why would anyone want more of what they hate?

You're saying people are saying that, but I'm not sure that they are. Did you notice when you asked why people didn't like Dallas most people had answers that did not fit the response you were looking for. When you approach every issues with an ideological agenda, you quit having conversations with people and start patronizing them.

You have a lot of great points, Just the Facts, but you try to insert your agenda into every discussion and it turns people off.

The only reason this thread was created is because someone else started a thread on that ugly new bridge in Dallas and DCsooner exploded...

The only reason this thread was created is because someone else started a thread on that ugly new bridge in Dallas and DCsooner exploded...

Really? I love that bridge. I actually wish we had it here in OKC.

Just read that other thread. It was quite an unprovoked and immature response. I suspect the person that is most concerned with Dallas is dcsooner. Lol

I figured it out.... Dallas Crush Sooner...not Washington DC.

Just read that other thread. It was quite an unprovoked and immature response. I suspect the person that is most concerned with Dallas is dcsooner. Lol

That's what I got out of it as well.

It means we want to be our own city, not a mock up of a mega-city. And no, Dallas isn't the only city with a 10-lane freeway.

Exactly!!!!

Dallas...it's a nice place to visit.

I will admit that I did growing up in OKC but then I lived there from 91-93 and moved back to OKC for 10 years. Moved to Austin in 2003, had a chance to move back to Dallas in 2004, spent 4 months working up there and after a couple of weeks I realized that I had no desire to live in Dallas again. I would move to Port Aransas/Corpus Christi or Houston/Galveston before I would move back to DFW but then it looks like we are going to the free of Texas soon. I started working in Denver in November, we finish moving in February and hopefully get the house in Austin sold relatively soon. We got tired of the heat and I got a bit tired of the "Texas attitude", my wife grew up in West Texas where that attitude is a little different.

^^You must Love Denver?If I had the money to relocate it would be between Denver,Portland,Minneapolis,Seattle or Boston.I Love Oklahoma,but I do have my favorites on my someday/wishlist!

I love Denver, not sure I would live there, same with Dallas, I love a good visit but no desire what so ever to live there. I like Ft. Worth better than Dallas, just seems to meet more of my needs. As much as OKC has to go I love it here and very excited about all the change. I grew up in Bartlesville so OKC was a big move for me. Now I have lived here and have been to other cities I see how OKC is not so big but I like that fact.

^^You must Love Denver?If I had the money to relocate it would be between Denver,Portland,Minneapolis,Seattle or Boston.I Love Oklahoma,but I do have my favorites on my someday/wishlist!
I still kick myself for not going to school in Boston when I was considering it. I wish that I would have moved further away from OKC than Dallas and seen/experienced more. Austin is a great place if you are around 30 and single, I can see why all my former co-workers in that age group think it is almost the greatest place to live. There are so many in that group moving there from all over, it seemed like every new interiors rep was some gorgeous female from elsewhere, many of them from Georgia. There is such an active and vibrant community for people in that age group, if I was going to stay close to OKC in 91 I should've moved to Austin or Denver like some of my other OKC friends did around that time and skip Dallas. I have considered moving to Denver for 20 years, my wife (the reason that I moved to Austin) and I have been talking about it for 6-7 years and we finally are doing it. After the past summers in Austin we were ready for the change (like the snow today).

If you want to do it, just do it. I spent too many years wanting to see more and move somewhere else and just stayed in OKC because it was the easy thing to do. Sure there are things that I miss with my family still there but I try to come back somewhat often.