View Full Version : Bricktown violence problem?



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metro
01-02-2012, 07:19 AM
There were two shootings this last week, and a few weeks before that, there was a violent fight, that knocked a friend of a friend of mine, unconscious. He still hasn't woke up from acoma.

http://newsok.com/two-shot-in-bricktown-altercation/article/3636873

Just the facts
01-02-2012, 07:28 AM
Do police walk the beat in Bricktown? Other than acting as private security for spcial events, is there a consistant visable on the street police presence?

kevinpate
01-02-2012, 08:45 AM
JTF, they have a stationhouse in BT, but I don't know their strength of force dedicated to the BT area

Just the facts
01-02-2012, 09:01 AM
The reason I ask is that I have visited a few areas recently where large numbers of people were present on a regular basis and I noticed a significant police presence when conditions didn't seem to merit them - which led to be wonder if the police presence is what creates the safe environment in the first place. Criminals are less likely to commit crimes if officers are standing on street corners in every direction.

The argument is often made that police don't prevent crime, they only show up after a crime has been committed. This is true in a society that has police sitting in a squad car or station house waiting for a call to come in. But in places where police are actually walking a beat, their presence does reduce crime in that area. Does that mean the criminals just go to some other location? Maybe, but that is the "other" locations problem to worry about and figure out. They can fund beat officers as well.

While in the National Guard I was doing hurricane duty once and they (local police) had as doing roving patrols. It was so stupid because the looters would just wait for us to pass and knew they had about 4 or 5 minutes before the next patrol would come along. It would have made much more sense to me to stop driving around and just sit in one place with line-of-sight to another stationary patrol – we had the staffing for it. Then if anyone tried to commit a crime they would be in full view of two security details. We would have protected more property, done less driving, and saved fuel.

kevinpate
01-02-2012, 09:10 AM
I don't visit BT much these days, as we've been staying in Norman more and more. When we used to visit more regularly, we'd see officers on foot, in cars, and also the BT Ambassadors (goodwill vols with purple shirts, tidbits of info and radios. Never asked, but I presume the radios would permit alerts to the local constables if they saw something.

We never had issues anytime we were in BT, but if there was a hefty crowd we were also usually not a part of it and simply took a different direction, certain music fests excepted.

rcjunkie
01-02-2012, 09:17 AM
When the police decided to become more pro-active in Bricktown, they were criticized for it. Not sure what the correct answer to this problem is.

Just the facts
01-02-2012, 09:47 AM
When the police decided to become more pro-active in Bricktown, they were criticized for it. Not sure what the correct answer to this problem is.
One thing is for sure, you can't manage an urbanized area the same way you manage suburbia.

When I first went to Rittenhouse Square the police presence made me feel a little nervous. Since police are not part of my daily life and only show up when something bad happens the first thing that crossed my mind when seeing them is that this must be a bad part of town that requires a constant police presence.

The more time I spent there the more the police presence became just part of streetscape and I found that my personal feeling of safety increased even as I ventured away from Rittenhouse Sq. because I knew police were very nearby just waiting to apprehend any troublemakers. And it wasn't just me that felt safer. I often saw women jogging alone in the area or simply walking home from work. After living there for 2 months I would have no problem with my wife and kids walking around Central Philadelphia at any time of night even though Philadelphia has one of the highest murder rates in the country.

Just the facts
01-02-2012, 09:54 AM
Here is an interesting read on the subject. It is something to think about as MBG, Central Park, and Prominade Park develop. These parks need to be policed 24/7 to keep them safe and desireable.

http://www.pps.org/great_public_spaces/one?public_place_id=393

mcca7596
01-02-2012, 10:39 AM
On the comments on News9, someone said that Bricktown is turning into Crossroads Mall; that is laughable to me. You can't begin to compare the two as entertainment locations.

swilki
01-02-2012, 11:26 AM
On the comments on News9, someone said that Bricktown is turning into Crossroads Mall; that is laughable to me. You can't begin to compare the two as entertainment locations.

Correct, but I think if you compare the groups of people who frequented Crossroads and those who go to the clubs in Bricktown you will see a resemblance. Let's face it, the night attractions in Bricktown aren't the highest of quality and therefore don't attract the best quality of people. And to me, that is what is creating the problem down there.

adaniel
01-02-2012, 12:56 PM
With all due respect, clubs in general don't always attract the highest caliber of people, whether in Bricktown, Quail Springs, Brookside in Tulsa, Dallas, etc. Outside this event, I'm, not sure what the problem is, although I would hope police investigate to make sure this is some domestic event.

We are in a big city. Crime happens. Bricktown has tons of security cameras, as well as a pretty sizable police presence. It is probably one of the safest corners of the city, but like anything open to large crowds a few stupids will slip though. Certainly not something to start hyperventaling about. Didn't someone start firing their gun at Penn Square last year? Obviously it has not affected their crowds.

Oh, and anytime a crime story appears on NewsOk or News 9 I would strongly advise to NOT read the comments. The people that frequent those know nothing, and you will just get blasted with racist, paranoid rants.

bluedogok
01-02-2012, 01:21 PM
There was a near riot at a big party in a hotel in Aurora on New Year's Eve, any time you get a large group of people more than likely with some alcohol in them you have a chance of something happening. How many stories are there every where of small parties or family get togethers where there are arguments that go too far, things like that happen everywhere in towns big and small and in any socioeconomic group, race or culture. It is just a fact of life when it comes to human nature, you are always going to have hot heads who can't control themselves. There is a very thin line between civilized and uncivilized behavior.

The Denver Post - New Year's party in Aurora rings in 2012 with fistfights and police shooting (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_19658421)

metro
01-02-2012, 01:43 PM
The question is BRICKTOWN though, and the fact violent crimes in this district seem to be on the rise.

kevinpate
01-02-2012, 01:56 PM
On the comments on News9, someone said that Bricktown is turning into Crossroads Mall; that is laughable to me. You can't begin to compare the two as entertainment locations.


What is more laughable is that someone thinks that in 2011 or 2012 Crossroads Mall is a place of violence compared to other large shopping venues.

Just for grins and giggles, if anyone can provide documentation that Crossroads has more incidents of reported violence than Penn Square Mall or Quail Springs Mall over the last five years (January 2007- December, 2011) I'll provide you with three restaurant.com gift certificates, one for Bourbon St cafe in BT, one for Nancy's Lighthouse and one for 51st Street Speakeasy.
I might be wrong, but I'm thinking I'll probably be keeping those gift certificates for my own use.

bluedogok
01-02-2012, 01:57 PM
It isn't just a Bricktown problem, it is a societal problem. The same issues that affect Bricktown affect Sixth Street, the Red River and Warehouse Districts and other entertainment areas here in Austin. It also affects the 16th Street Mall in Denver and I remember the same discussions about the West End and Deep Ellum in Dallas 20 years ago, the same issues of how to control it exist everywhere. Wasn't it just a couple of summers ago when there was an overwhelming police presence down there that pretty much chased most of the people away from Bricktown? There is a fine line between not enough and too much police presence in any entertainment district to affect the traffic in any given area. No place is ever going to be 100% safe because there are too many idiots in the world.

adaniel
01-02-2012, 02:11 PM
The question is BRICKTOWN though, and the fact violent crimes in this district seem to be on the rise.

I'm really not seeing this. I have actually been to Bricktown a couple of times over the past few months, and I haven't frequented Bricktown on a regual basis since 2008. To me it felt quite a bit safer.

A look on News 9 crime tracker showed 4 assaults reported to OKCPD in August 2008. In August 2011 there were 2. Neither figure confirm a district with a crime problem.

Bellaboo
01-02-2012, 02:15 PM
What is more laughable is that someone thinks that in 2011 or 2012 Crossroads Mall is a place of violence compared to other large shopping venues.

Just for grins and giggles, if anyone can provide documentation that Crossroads has more incidents of reported violence than Penn Square Mall or Quail Springs Mall over the last five years (January 2007- December, 2011) I'll provide you with three restaurant.com gift certificates, one for Bourbon St cafe in BT, one for Nancy's Lighthouse and one for 51st Street Speakeasy.
I might be wrong, but I'm thinking I'll probably be keeping those gift certificates for my own use.

Probably not in the last 5 years, as folks quit going to Crossroads.

venture
01-02-2012, 05:07 PM
Haven't been to Bricktown in a couple of years. Whenever I went, I make it a point that the sun is still up. Last time when I was there at night I had people shooting at each other when I was walking out of Harkins. I think it was the Reggae fest or something that weekend when the folks in their lovely solid colors showed up and started firing. Yeah no thanks. You all can enjoy that, I'll stick to Norman and Moore. :-)

fsusurfer
01-02-2012, 05:22 PM
i lived in Bricktown about 5 years ago and there was a similar incident, actually it was posted about on this board. Bricktown is a area where a lot of people meet, hang out, and party. Anytime you have this type of atmosphere things are going to get out of hand from time to time. Doesnt mean the area is going down the tubes.

BBatesokc
01-02-2012, 05:23 PM
I'm really not seeing this. I have actually been to Bricktown a couple of times over the past few months, and I haven't frequented Bricktown on a regual basis since 2008. To me it felt quite a bit safer.

A look on News 9 crime tracker showed 4 assaults reported to OKCPD in August 2008. In August 2011 there were 2. Neither figure confirm a district with a crime problem.

I agree, I don't see the safety concern in BT and I'm there quite often. The only time I feel concerned is when large numbers of college age drunks spill out onto the streets. But I don't like crowds in general. I feel far more unsafe walking in my own neighborhood. As a matter of fact, I am unarmed when I'm out taping, but I carry a concealed weapon when I walk my dog.

However, the News9 crime tracker is not a very accurate tool. Not sure how the info is originally compiled or interpreted, but I keep a very accurate database and it never matches up with their online one. Mine tracks not only where the crimes are committed, but also where the criminals (if arrested) lived. Similarly, if someone is relying on the OCPD.com blotter to see all the people booked into the Oklahoma County jail, your missing up to 40% of the actual arrests.

metro
01-02-2012, 11:19 PM
Not to mention, he's talking about AUGUST, and my original post was talking about the last 2 months things have been escalating. I never said down the tubes, but things do appear to be becoming more frequent.

ljbab728
01-02-2012, 11:26 PM
Not to mention, he's talking about AUGUST, and my original post was talking about the last 2 months things have been escalating. I never said down the tubes, but things do appear to be becoming more frequent.

What additional incidents have there been in the last two months that are out of the ordinary, metro? You mentioned one that involved a friend. Is that the only other incident in Bricktown in the last two months. If so, that doesn't seem that significant.

soonerguru
01-02-2012, 11:33 PM
Haven't been to Bricktown in a couple of years. Whenever I went, I make it a point that the sun is still up. Last time when I was there at night I had people shooting at each other when I was walking out of Harkins. I think it was the Reggae fest or something that weekend when the folks in their lovely solid colors showed up and started firing. Yeah no thanks. You all can enjoy that, I'll stick to Norman and Moore. :-)

Wanker.

(smiley)

metro
01-03-2012, 05:28 AM
What additional incidents have there been in the last two months that are out of the ordinary, metro? You mentioned one that involved a friend. Is that the only other incident in Bricktown in the last two months. If so, that doesn't seem that significant.

The jumping of a friends friend by a gang, and the two shootings in the last week or so. The cops are also saying bar fights are becoming so common down there, that they just hang out at the main intersections when the bars let out because they don't know what bar they will need to go to. Other than that, when is the last shooting you heard of in Bricktown??

Midtowner
01-03-2012, 07:26 AM
metro, if you stay out of certain bars and don't purposely try to get in a fight, you're probably going to be just fine. Violence happens, but very rarely is it random, and very rarely did the victim not do something to instigate the violence in the first place.

BBatesokc
01-03-2012, 08:10 AM
metro, if you stay out of certain bars and don't purposely try to get in a fight, you're probably going to be just fine. Violence happens, but very rarely is it random, and very rarely did the victim not do something to instigate the violence in the first place.

I don't know if I'd go that far. But, to characterize an entire area as increasingly unsafe based on the happenings around the bars say from midnight-3am isn't exactly fair. You go around any crowd of young people that has been drinking heavily and common sense will tell you its likely that violence can occur. I'm not in Bricktown after say 11pm because of that very reason (unless we are at an MMA event at the Coca Cola Center - love those).

The few times in recent years I've been in bars that late, it was nothing to see a fight break out where the one being attacked didn't do anything to 'deserve it.' I've been in many bars in Bricktown and I still find them 'safer' than say Graham's and whatever the name of the cowboy bar is on S. Meridian.

That said, a person is a fool to go to any popular young bar in any part of the city late at night and not be prepared for all kinds of chaos - not that it always happens, but it can at any point.

OklahomaNick
01-03-2012, 09:03 AM
I will say that my particular age & demographic (25 to 30) who used to frequent Bricktown has moved more north towards Western Ave. and even North Memorial Road.

Back in early November I swung by a bar in Bricktown to pick up a friend, and I literally witnessed a riot out in front of City Walk. Then I rounded the corner to see several guys beating up one guy in a dim lit parking lot behind there. This has really caused me to shy away from Bricktown whereas I used to frequent there..

dankrutka
01-03-2012, 09:35 AM
Everyone always thinks crime is getting worse, but no one has produced anything more than anecdotal evidence that there has been an increase in crime. Bricktown has always seemed very safe to me. I used to run in Bricktown at night specifically because I felt it was safer than other areas. I've been to Bricktown about 100 times and I've never felt unsafe or threatened. I have witnessed a fight or two at a bar, but it was just two idiots duking it out. Something that will happen any place bars exist.

Midtowner
01-03-2012, 10:09 AM
Did any of y'all hear about the scrotum ripping incident at Hudson's caused because someone wore the wrong colors? Must've been gang land or something. Stay the hell out of Hudson's.

[I agree, anecdotal information is not, by definition and function, very reliable for establishing a trend. Further, a collection of anecdotal information does not equal data]

RadicalModerate
01-03-2012, 10:28 AM
If you walk into The Next Big Thing Bar in Bricktown and see this,
my advice would be to turn around and walk as quickly as possible
in the other direction.

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/14700000/A-Clockwork-Orange-a-clockwork-orange-14752233-965-577.jpg

Rumor/Word On The Street is that it was an isolated incident.

Peach fuzz
01-03-2012, 10:50 AM
I don't want to get in to a lot of details, but I know one of the guys that got shot in front of city walk. He's a known mouthy trash-talker from Louisiana and he was calling a couple of guys out and they opened up on him. I also saw 2 fights but they were very very drunk-related. It's not near as bad as other places I have lived.

Roadhawg
01-03-2012, 01:16 PM
I don't want to get in to a lot of details, but I know one of the guys that got shot in front of city walk. He's a known mouthy trash-talker from Louisiana and he was calling a couple of guys out and they opened up on him. I also saw 2 fights but they were very very drunk-related. It's not near as bad as other places I have lived.


So in other words he took his mouth to a gun fight.....

Skyline
01-03-2012, 02:49 PM
How do all of these thugs find parking places in Bricktown?

I only thought that Bricktown had a parking problem, now it has violence problems too? haha.

RadicalModerate
01-03-2012, 02:59 PM
So in other words he took his mouth to a gun fight.....
Perhaps one reason why Louisiana is sometimes referred to as "Duh Boot" . . . ?

metro
01-03-2012, 09:43 PM
metro, if you stay out of certain bars and don't purposely try to get in a fight, you're probably going to be just fine. Violence happens, but very rarely is it random, and very rarely did the victim not do something to instigate the violence in the first place.

I don't go to any bars, so no worries here. That's not my point though Mid. Ask the Bricktown police if they don't believe a certain gang or two is going down there looking for trouble.

Midtowner
01-03-2012, 10:14 PM
I don't go to any bars, so no worries here. That's not my point though Mid. Ask the Bricktown police if they don't believe a certain gang or two is going down there looking for trouble.

Have you asked the police? What did they say?

Brandon_sharp
01-03-2012, 10:19 PM
How do all of these thugs find parking places in Bricktown?

I only thought that Bricktown had a parking problem, now it has violence problems too? haha.

LMAO! best post in this thread.

Fantastic
01-04-2012, 05:35 PM
I'm in Bricktown quite alot after 10 pm, and well after midnight durring the summer. I'm there durring big events, and when it looks like a ghost town. I see absolutly NO evidence of a violence problem. Sure, a couple of morons shot up a limo, and a guy got beat into a coma outside Rok Bar. These events are undeniable, BUT they are no doubt isolated incidents. I NEVER see things like this happen, because they rarely do. Bricktown is fine, Bricktown is safe, and the most annoying thing is the vagrancy. And even that isn't nearly as wide spread as it is in other places. Go to Walmart on NW Expressway and Council at 1:30 in the morning and odds are someone is going to ask you for change for the bus........ at 1:30 in the morning... WHAT BUS?

ljbab728
01-05-2012, 12:21 AM
This reminds me of people who are afraid to go to Cancun because of violence in Mexico. The fact that the violence occurs about a thousand miles away near the US border doesn't occur to them. As mentioned above, you are probably much safer late at night in Bricktown than walking in a Walmart parking lot on NW Expressway.

oneforone
01-05-2012, 04:30 AM
You can be safe anywhere and you can be in danger anywhere. The key is paying attention to your surroundings. People are mugged at shopping malls daily because they don't pay attention to their surroundings.I remember when the Playstation 2 was the big item of the day. A guy got beat up for the Playstation 2 he just bought for his kid as Christmas gift in broad daylight. Mall Security Cameras showed the guy being followed by the suspect for over an hour while he shopped other places in the mall.

As a general rule it's not the best idea to be hanging out any place that attracts large groups late at night or early hours of the morning. The freaks do come out at night. You can be among them if you like, just keep an eye on what's going on around you and get out when things start going south.

metro
03-08-2012, 08:58 AM
http://newsok.com/man-dies-of-injuries-suffered-in-bricktown-beating-near-rok-bar-in-oklahoma-city/article/3655447

BoulderSooner
03-08-2012, 11:18 AM
http://newsok.com/man-dies-of-injuries-suffered-in-bricktown-beating-near-rok-bar-in-oklahoma-city/article/3655447

i would like to know more background on this story .... he died in a hospital in colorado springs? something does not add up....

dankrutka
03-08-2012, 11:46 AM
i would like to know more background on this story .... he died in a hospital in colorado springs? something does not add up....

I was also curious why big pieces of the story were not connected together.

MikeOKC
03-08-2012, 12:00 PM
The article is a bit confusing. The crime actually occured over three months ago in November. The family of the victim had him transferred to a hospital in Colorado Springs, where he died Tuesday.

jedicurt
03-08-2012, 12:20 PM
The article is very confusing... i'm also still trying to figure out how this is the (insert number) homicide in 2012 if the incident occurred in November of 2011. Doing a quick google search for more information, what i gathered is that he was in OKC working at Tinker. His family is from Colorado Springs. After this incident occurred and they thought he may never come out of the coma, the family got him transfered to a hospital that was local for them. So he was moved there and then just recently died from his injuries. Also doesn't sound like they were just randomly jumped, but happened to get between two groups of people who were probably going to fight anyways, and they tried to calm down the situation while they were intoxicated (and i am assuming they were intoxicated, cause they chose to leave their cars in bricktown overnight and one of the guys wives (or girlfriend) was coming to pick them up.

MikeOKC
03-08-2012, 12:31 PM
i'm also still trying to figure out how this is the (insert number) homicide in 2012 if the incident occurred in November of 2011.

I was wondering the same thing. My only guess is that deaths resulting from a crime occurring in another year are considered a homicide for the year the victim actually died. This would explain the 15th homicide of 2012. Sounds like a sad situation where the victim, and his friends, were at the wrong place at the wrong time.

kevinpate
03-08-2012, 12:47 PM
It was a danged terrible vicious assault in 2011.
If he had woke up and recovered, it would of remained a danged terrible vicious assault.

It only became a homicide after the victim passed, and that did not happen until 2012.

metro
03-12-2012, 09:06 AM
i would like to know more background on this story .... he died in a hospital in colorado springs? something does not add up....

He was in a coma here in OKC for quite some time. It wasn't looking good, so they medi-flighted him to Colorado where his parents live.

OKCTalker
03-12-2012, 10:28 AM
The deceased wasn't involved in the altercation - he was simply exiting the bar at closing time on November 27 when he came upon rival groups. He raised his hands trying to calm people down when he was attacked. The victim was then transported to a local hospital. With little improvement in his condition, his family had him transported to a hospital in Colorado Springs closer to where they live. He died there on March 6.

I believe that the quality of the Oklahoman's reporting and/or editing has declined significantly, and I cite last week's story about Garth Brooks selling land in Edmond. The online story never reported the location, so there was much conjecture in the comments section about where it was. The print edition Saturday was more helpful.

Do they not teach "who, what, why, where, when and how" in journalism school any more?

LowRyter
03-14-2012, 05:16 PM
bricktown is going to be great when we get this open carry thing going.

I am sure tourists will love to see folks carrying guns on their hip. Sorta like Frontier City but with armed amateurs.

BBatesokc
03-14-2012, 05:25 PM
bricktown is going to be great when we get this open carry thing going.

I am sure tourists will love to see folks carrying guns on their hip. Sorta like Frontier City but with armed amateurs.

Once again you speak without even spewing an once of credibility. Let me guess, tourists don't go to any of the other open carry states? Please show us the headlines where the citizens are holstered up Wyatt Earp style and how the tourists are fleeing in fear.

I once thought you had a strong opinion to share that I didn't agree with, but i am quickly seeing you're just a troll.

LowRyter
03-14-2012, 05:27 PM
I bet I am glad the ignore feature works here

BBatesokc
03-14-2012, 05:31 PM
I bet I am glad the ignore feature works here

How would you know - because apparently you are not using it or you wouldn't have responded directly under my post. Exactly how many treads are you going to try and tie to your stance on open carry?

OKCretro
03-27-2012, 10:08 AM
Atkins would have cleaned up bricktown

oneforone
03-28-2012, 12:13 AM
How would you know - because apparently you are not using it or you wouldn't have responded directly under my post. Exactly how many treads are you going to try and tie to your stance on open carry?

Few people realize that open carry will not lead to a large number of people seen in public with a six shooter or a 9mm on their hip. The weapons will still be banned in pretty much all public building and businesses. (No company, organization or entity wants the liability on their hands.)

Open carry holders will likely carry their weapons concealed because you're a walking target when your exposed. That is why police officers in plain clothes carry under their clothing. When you're carrying and not in uniform you want the element of surprise. Not to mention, your chances of being stopped and being questioned by police quadruple. The only places you will likely see someone open carrying is in a place where few people are present and the element of surprise lurks everywhere. In today's world I would prefer to be armed because the new style of criminal has no conscience. There is now give me your wallet and nobody gets hurt. Its give me your wallet and BANG! They don't want you to have the chance to tell police about them.

I would rather have a fighting chance instead of no chance at all. Granted, I do agree that there are some people do not need open carry and will do stupid things and take innocent lives. Where you solve that problem is in the DA's office. Every District Attorney from border to border should make a strong commitment to prosecute any who takes a life without justifiable cause to the fullest extent of the law. If you shoot carelessly, you should be held accountable just like you would with your car or truck. After all if you own a gun and have a concealed carry or open carry, you should be able to accurately shoot the weapon and be able to identify a target and hit it. If you can't do that, you should not own a gun in the first place.

betts
03-28-2012, 12:23 PM
I would rather have a fighting chance instead of no chance at all. Granted, I do agree that there are some people do not need open carry and will do stupid things and take innocent lives. Where you solve that problem is in the DA's office. Every District Attorney from border to border should make a strong commitment to prosecute any who takes a life without justifiable cause to the fullest extent of the law. If you shoot carelessly, you should be held accountable just like you would with your car or truck. After all if you own a gun and have a concealed carry or open carry, you should be able to accurately shoot the weapon and be able to identify a target and hit it. If you can't do that, you should not own a gun in the first place.

It's a little late for some poor individuals to throw the onus for accountability on the DA's office. Personally, I'd rather take my chances with being accosted by a stranger with a gun, those being phenomenally low, than the odds of being shot by some stupid, paranoid vigilante who's using a gun as a poor substitute for masculinity or ego. There are a lot more of those than criminals.

I have a friend who is a police chief, and he told me open carry will be a nightmare for law enforcement.

Now, I'll leave this thread to those who have a paranoia, masculinity or ego problem:).

kevinpate
03-28-2012, 09:47 PM
Not sure how open carry creates a greater problem potential for leos than concealed carry, and over 17 or so years, concealed carry has a not unimpressive track record here.

If anything it ought to be a somewhat lesser problem. Since the ability to carry requires the same processes, every open carry person is one less person an officer needs to wonder whether the person is carrying and thus far hasn't said so.

BBatesokc
03-29-2012, 06:27 AM
I have a friend who is a police chief, and he told me open carry will be a nightmare for law enforcement.

Then your anonymous 'friend' who's a police chief is not too bright. 'Nightmare'? I guess he is completely oblivious to the other states with open carry that have virtually no problems with it. Yeah, some nightmare. The only nightmare are police chiefs who give absurd predictions despite actual evidence to the contrary. Lets just hope this 'friend' is in some unpopulated town far from OKC.

metro
05-22-2012, 01:12 PM
http://newsok.com/multiple-people-shot-downtown-after-oklahoma-city-thunder-game/article/3677634?custom_click=masthead_topten

Shootings and fights last night.

catch22
05-22-2012, 01:15 PM
Bricktown is starting to attract the wrong crowd. I was in Bricktown a few weeks ago after midnight and about got in the middle of a thug brawl as I was walking to my car. As I was driving out of Bricktown, a large group of cop cars were racing down the streets to where I was about 5 minutes prior.