View Full Version : 2012 and trains still have to blow horns?



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RadicalModerate
09-16-2012, 05:59 PM
Speaking of geography . . . When trains cross directly into Missouri from Texas on the east and Louisana on the south they are required to blow their horns for a full metric minute. There was a segment about this on Fox News recently.

Interesting FRA Factoid: There is a Major FRA Office/Regional Headquarters in Kansas City. There is no major fra office in oklahoma city at all.

CaptDave
09-16-2012, 06:02 PM
Huh? Did you say that India is in Europe? Look at Germany, UK and France and then you can make make a summary for The European situation.

In India, trains even blown horns when they go over a bridge ... probable to want the passengers on to of the roofs, making sure they don't jump into the water.... Is this the ideal situation you want the trains in the USA to compare too ?? Good luck my friend, but first have some lessons in geography....

OK here you go:

Germany
Horn signals are regulated in the Zp category of the Eisenbahn-Bau- und Betriebsordnung. Their most common use today is when approaching a level crossing that lacks barriers, and for warning purposes.

France
Train horns are sounded where a whistle post (marked with the letter "S" for "siffler") is present. If the whistle post is labelled "J" (meaning "jour"), the horn is only to be sounded between 0700 and 2000. Horns must also be sounded when passing an oncoming train, and shortly before reaching the last car of the train.
(I bet you will find "S" signs on the approaches to grade crossings.)

United Kingdom
UK diesel and electric locomotives are usually fitted with two-tone horns and, in the past, both tones were routinely used. However, because of noise complaints, new rules were introduced in 2007.
(Nothing about NOT blowing the horn at a grade crossing.)

All this from YOUR source. Will you please stop this foolishness now?

Roadhawg
09-16-2012, 07:11 PM
I'm sorry, I forgot India:

India moves to ban passengers travelling on top of trains - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/7260838/India-moves-to-ban-passengers-travelling-on-top-of-trains.html)

This country is as you can see above in full development and I'm sure you don't want to compare the train rules in the USA with the current rules in India


Huh? Did you say that India is in Europe? Look at Germany, UK and France and then you can make make a summary for The European situation.

In India, trains even blown horns when they go over a bridge ... probable to want the passengers on to of the roofs, making sure they don't jump into the water.... Is this the ideal situation you want the trains in the USA to compare too ?? Good luck my friend, but first have some lessons in geography....


You brought up India and where did I say India was in Europe? You also said trains in Europe only use their horns in case of emergency and that too was wrong. Here's a link that will help you Reading Is Fundamental (http://www.rif.org/)

Roadhawg
09-16-2012, 07:12 PM
All this from YOUR source. Will you please stop this foolishness now?

He won't ... he's just a troll

torea
09-16-2012, 09:05 PM
wrote about and correctly summarized the honking rules in:

Germany ....
France ...
The United Kingdom ...


Well Capt Dave, I agree, you copied correctly the train rules in a few larger developed countries in the EU.
And you only prove that in the USA we have the most noisy, honking disturbing and polluting trains in the world:

- The FRA forces trains to honk 4 times (this is unseen in the rest of the world)
- Trains in the US have to honk day and night (again.... only in America)
- Trains in the USA have to honk day and night, 4 times EVEN when there are barriers, bells and red lights --- just to make sure a maximum number of people have to be disturbed (only in America again).
- Please have a look at these new rules introduces in the UK (after noise complaints) and you will agree we are the champions in loud and frequently honking in the USA.

Congratulations fellow Americans, once again we are the best, the greatest, the loudest and of course superior to the rest of the world (at least for train honking pollution)!

ljbab728
09-16-2012, 09:08 PM
Oh, the horror of it all.

CaptDave
09-16-2012, 11:58 PM
:doh: SMH....this thread cracks me up....I wonder what is really behind this obsession?

HewenttoJared
09-17-2012, 06:09 AM
Well Capt Dave, I agree, you copied correctly the train rules in a few larger developed countries in the EU.
And you only prove that in the USA we have the most noisy, honking disturbing and polluting trains in the world:

- The FRA forces trains to honk 4 times (this is unseen in the rest of the world)
- Trains in the US have to honk day and night (again.... only in America)
- Trains in the USA have to honk day and night, 4 times EVEN when there are barriers, bells and red lights --- just to make sure a maximum number of people have to be disturbed (only in America again).
- Please have a look at these new rules introduces in the UK (after noise complaints) and you will agree we are the champions in loud and frequently honking in the USA.

Congratulations fellow Americans, once again we are the best, the greatest, the loudest and of course superior to the rest of the world (at least for train honking pollution)!

We're also the only ones who have published a study demonstrating the number of lives saved from our rules. I understand from your comments that you claim to not really care about these dead kids, but we, as a society, tend to care a bit when needless death occurs. You have directly cited these studies, with no other studies to contradict them. Until you find some actual information that refutes the information we all have so far nobody is going to take you seriously.

Roadhawg
09-17-2012, 06:45 AM
:doh: SMH....this thread cracks me up....I wonder what is really behind this obsession?

Mental illness?

torea
09-17-2012, 07:44 AM
We're also the only ones who have published a study demonstrating the number of lives saved from our rules. I understand from your comments that you claim to not really care about these dead kids, but we, as a society, tend to care a bit when needless death occurs. You have directly cited these studies, with no other studies to contradict them. Until you find some actual information that refutes the information we all have so far nobody is going to take you seriously.

Did you ever see a study about the noise pollution disturbing millions of mainly older people living in the (mostly cheaper) houses nearby railroads?
How many years of their lives are lost by waking up 25 times per night by your loud honking trains?

Compared to this health damage I don't care about these stupid kids who choose themselves to slalom between the closes barriers and burn the red lights right in front of the trains.
Do you consider these kids as the real American Heroes?

Roadhawg
09-17-2012, 07:52 AM
Did you ever see a study about the noise pollution disturbing millions of mainly older people living in the (mostly cheaper) houses nearby railroads?
How many years of their lives are lost by waking up 25 times per night by your loud honking trains?

Compared to this health damage I don't care about these stupid kids who choose themselves to slalom between the closes barriers and burn the red lights right in front of the trains.
Do you consider these kids as the real American Heroes?

Hopefully this is my last post to you on this subject but I used to live near railroad tracks and for the first week or two it bothered me but after that I slept right through it. It's the same for people in places like NYC or Chicago who live near the mass transit trains and don't even notice them after a bit. Enjoy your inane rants and trolling but I'm done.

torea
09-17-2012, 07:57 AM
If I was able to find other countries doing the same thing would you suddenly take honking seriously? Because I can..

I didn't see any country yet you announced to be as noise polluting as the USA.

Except maybe India but there the trains have even to blow on top of the bridges ... probably to warn their "passengers" sitting on the train-roof not to jump off into the water....

torea
09-17-2012, 08:08 AM
Hopefully this is my last post to you on this subject but I used to live near railroad tracks and for the first week or two it bothered me but after that I slept right through it. It's the same for people in places like NYC or Chicago who live near the mass transit trains and don't even notice them after a bit. Enjoy your inane rants and trolling but I'm done.

Well, maybe you are just one of these nice guys accepting anything from everyone even disturbing and health damaging train horn noise pollution.

But I bet it's not difficult to find thousands of people to start a class action against these honking noises allover the USA.

Why do you think trains in France can't honk between 10pm and 7am?

HewenttoJared
09-17-2012, 08:10 AM
Did you ever see a study about the noise pollution disturbing millions of mainly older people living in the (mostly cheaper) houses nearby railroads?
How many years of their lives are lost by waking up 25 times per night by your loud honking trains?

Compared to this health damage I don't care about these stupid kids who choose themselves to slalom between the closes barriers and burn the red lights right in front of the trains.
Do you consider these kids as the real American Heroes?

Do you have any data about these health problems? If you do we can side-by-side and see if the rule does more harm than good. I'm betting you don't. Widespread, sub-damage noise pollution is a tricky thing to link to any health effects. I'm sure that the trains really, really bother you. I'm also sure that some of your neighbors are less bothered.

RadicalModerate
09-17-2012, 08:12 AM
Why do you think trains in France can't honk between 10pm and 7am?

Ennui? (yawn)

Roadhawg
09-17-2012, 08:16 AM
2625

CaptDave
09-17-2012, 08:34 AM
Classic NIMBYism on display here folks.

torea
09-17-2012, 08:55 AM
I guess y'all kids are ready to open a playground nearby a railroad and enjoy the day and nightly honking noise pollution ....

here are some effects on your health (later of course when you will be adult):

Noise pollution effects both health and behavior. Unwanted sound (noise) can damage physiological and psychological health. Noise pollution can cause annoyance and aggression, hypertension, high stress levels, tinnitus, hearing loss, sleep disturbances, and other harmful effects. Furthermore, stress and hypertension are the leading causes to health problems.

Chronic exposure to noise may cause noise-induced hearing loss. Older males exposed to significant occupational noise demonstrate significantly reduced hearing sensitivity than their non-exposed peers, though differences in hearing sensitivity decrease with time and the two groups are indistinguishable by age 79. A comparison of Maaban tribesmen, who were insignificantly exposed to transportation or industrial noise, to a typical U.S. population showed that chronic exposure to moderately high levels of environmental noise contributes to hearing loss.

High noise levels can contribute to cardiovascular effects and exposure to moderately high levels during a single eight hour period causes a statistical rise in blood pressure of five to ten points and an increase in stress and vasoconstriction leading to the increased blood pressure noted above as well as to increased incidence of coronary artery disease.

Noise pollution is also a cause of annoyance. A 2005 study by Spanish researchers found that in urban areas households are willing to pay approximately four Euros per decibel per year for noise reduction.

venture
09-17-2012, 09:08 AM
Okay so your main target is noise pollution. So then why aren't you going after airports, highways, factories, outdoor sporting venues, etc. I would think they contribute more noise pollution than a train whistle.

I admire anyone that is pushing their cause to raise awareness, but this is bordering on ridiculous at this point. Not to mention referring to anyone that disagrees with them as a "kid" because it is easier for them to belittle the opposition in order to feel superior to keep going on and on.

At some point you need to realize, after 2-3 threads, 9 pages on this one alone, that frankly people here don't give a damn. You presented whatever "facts" you have to back up your side of the case and others have countered (only to get belittled in the process). At some point you need to regroup and find a target audience that is going to be more receptive. Either on a health forum, activist forum, or a website for your home (Kansas) where this is apparently a bigger issue. Anyone who Googles can find your rants on the Topix thread where you posted the same thing and would come back with a canned FRA slamming message to revive a dead thread. You had more support there on a bigger forum...but what I counted was about 3 people.

Enough is enough. You are starting to rank up there with the more obnoxious people that have already been given a life sentence by Pete. Unless that is your goal to keep going and going until the site owner bans you and then you move on to another forum to troll for a year.

RadicalModerate
09-17-2012, 09:08 AM
Miniature Portait of The NIMBY Train With Muted Horn
2626

Portrait of The Complainer as a Young Troll
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7vNdIdheK3w/R6ZHUm_j1KI/AAAAAAAAA5E/QS3uU7ib_Ww/s200/Anonymous+NIMBY.jpg
Noise? What Noise? I Can't Hear a Thing!

Reminder: A Regional FRA Headquarters is in Kansas City.
It's not even a long distance phone call. Heck, you could probably ride the bus--or your bicycle--over and knock on their front door. Hopefully they will hear the knock above the bleating (train horns).

It might help if you show up dressed like this . . .
http://thomascostume.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/baby-thomas-train-costume.jpg

Or even this . . .
http://www.trainparty.com/product_images/g/624/ADULT-TRAIN-ENGINEER-COSTUME__21722_zoom.JPG

Just be sure that you are wearing a smile . . .

torea
09-17-2012, 09:40 AM
This thread is ridiculous and useless.

Dear Mr. Venture79: If you come with childish remarks, I will treat you as you wish...

I wrote you already that nobody is talking here about the noise of plane, truck, car or train engines.

We are discussing the complete useless noise pollution created by these loud and repetitive train horns blowing day and night.

That's exactly what this topic about. If you don't like the title "2012 and trains still have to blow horns? ", feel free to stay away and do something else and useful.

venture
09-17-2012, 09:54 AM
Dear Mr. Venture79: If you come with childish remarks, I will treat you as you wish...

Yet you disregard many of the other comments in my posts, and others...so this is the visual I get...

http://www.themahoganyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/noise-fingers-in-ears-001.jpg


I wrote you already that nobody is talking here about the noise of plane, truck, car or train engines.

We are discussing the complete useless noise pollution created by these loud and repetitive train horns blowing day and night.

That's exactly what this topic about. If you don't like the title "2012 and trains still have to blow horns? ", feel free to stay away and do something else and useful.

Honestly...you are the only one really discussing it at any length. Everyone else has countered your points, you've ignored them, and kept on yakking about it. In the grand scheme noise pollution is going to mainly come from truck/car traffic...so why aren't you focusing your energies on better sound ordinances to reduce that noise? Or how about airplane noise? I'm in the approach pattern for Tinker, we should do something to silence them there planes! (Okay not really, I love plane noise.)

This thread was effectively dead, finally, for 2 months yet you decide to resurrect it? Why? If a thread is dead that usually means its been discussed to death and we are only going around in circles. At some point mature people will have to agree to disagree and move on instead of continuing the madness. Right now you are a one man band who is trumpeting his position and there are several others which disagree with you that have already countered your points. You've then failed to counter theirs and instead chosen to ignore and keep ranting on.

I suppose the easiest thing to do would be to just add you to ignore and let you realize that no one wants to play with you anymore. Though I would hope you would come around to see reason and move on from this discussion as it is going no where right now.

Roadhawg
09-17-2012, 10:02 AM
"I suppose the easiest thing to do would be to just add you to ignore and let you realize that no one wants to play with you anymore." best suggestion on this thread

RadicalModerate
09-17-2012, 10:03 AM
I know . . . I know . . . A Re-Run.
(Like just about every OP comment on this thread.)
PskoqCtRFD4

Let this be a lesson in what happens when trains are equipped with annoying, shrill and wimpy, "Made in Japan" train whistles.
Nes pas?

(note the sub-par spelling of "bridge" in the vidclip title)

FRA: Regional HQ: KC.

Dubya61
09-17-2012, 10:04 AM
Did you ever see a study about the noise pollution disturbing millions of mainly older people living in the (mostly cheaper) houses nearby railroads?
How many years of their lives are lost by waking up 25 times per night by your loud honking trains?

Compared to this health damage I don't care about these stupid kids who choose themselves to slalom between the closes barriers and burn the red lights right in front of the trains.
Do you consider these kids as the real American Heroes?

I have a good friend from childhood who, when she moved away from home (right by the tracks and near a crossing), she had trouble sleeping without the comforting sound of the train and the whistle.

RadicalModerate
09-17-2012, 10:18 AM
A Conundrum Wrapped in An Enigma with a dash of Paradox:
Which came first . . . The Railroad or The Houses?
(subliminal plug for that show about railroads that isn't available on Dish Network)

FRA/HQ/KC

HewenttoJared
09-17-2012, 11:24 AM
I guess y'all kids are ready to open a playground nearby a railroad and enjoy the day and nightly honking noise pollution ....

here are some effects on your health (later of course when you will be adult):

Noise pollution effects both health and behavior. Unwanted sound (noise) can damage physiological and psychological health. Noise pollution can cause annoyance and aggression, hypertension, high stress levels, tinnitus, hearing loss, sleep disturbances, and other harmful effects. Furthermore, stress and hypertension are the leading causes to health problems.

Chronic exposure to noise may cause noise-induced hearing loss. Older males exposed to significant occupational noise demonstrate significantly reduced hearing sensitivity than their non-exposed peers, though differences in hearing sensitivity decrease with time and the two groups are indistinguishable by age 79. A comparison of Maaban tribesmen, who were insignificantly exposed to transportation or industrial noise, to a typical U.S. population showed that chronic exposure to moderately high levels of environmental noise contributes to hearing loss.

High noise levels can contribute to cardiovascular effects and exposure to moderately high levels during a single eight hour period causes a statistical rise in blood pressure of five to ten points and an increase in stress and vasoconstriction leading to the increased blood pressure noted above as well as to increased incidence of coronary artery disease.

Noise pollution is also a cause of annoyance. A 2005 study by Spanish researchers found that in urban areas households are willing to pay approximately four Euros per decibel per year for noise reduction.
None of that gives an economic or life cost to link to train horns. The FRA has that data for the lives saved. You have to find data that counters it with numbers attached specifically to train horns.

torea
09-17-2012, 11:31 AM
I guess you guys are somehow linked to the interest of railroads and/or FRA.

That must be the reason you fill up this topic with idiot and childish messages such as the river Kwai movie and pictures of nasty looking kids. (etc... etc...)

You probably try to avoid people with serious comments to read and publish on this place and I understand why you try to avoid any reasonable discussion:

This is a clear case for a huge class action lawsuit.
.Keep on sabotaging guys, its a good (but childish) try to shut up reasonable people to talk to each other but you won't escape the reality, and the legal consequences of the useless and polluting train horn honking (day and night) allover the USA.

torea
09-17-2012, 12:43 PM
Originally Posted by HewenttoJared:
"If I was able to find other countries doing the same thing would you suddenly take honking seriously? Because I can.."

I'm still waiting for your example, Mr. HewenttoJared.
I can understand its a kind of difficult to find some (developed) countries doing the same .... but you said you can?

Roadhawg
09-17-2012, 01:35 PM
2627