View Full Version : Fallin Asking For Fix To Crumbling Capitol ($130 Million)



UnFrSaKn
12-22-2011, 04:21 PM
Repairs Could Cost $130 Million

Video

http://www.koco.com/video/30057308/detail.html

What does this say about the state of historic preservation in this city?

bucktalk
12-22-2011, 04:38 PM
Yeah...uhmm. Maybe someone at the state level could have done a thorough building assessment study before so much money was spent adding the dome to the capitol. I'm never shocked at how our priorities can so out of line on a state level....

MikeOKC
12-22-2011, 04:41 PM
Yeah...uhmm. Maybe someone at the state level could have done a thorough building assessment study before so much money was spent adding the dome to the capitol. I'm never shocked at how our priorities can so out of line on a state level....

The dome was a privately funded project.

bucktalk
12-22-2011, 04:48 PM
The dome was a privately funded project.

Yes, I realize that. My point is before adding the dome surely an engineering assessment would have been done on the building before adding all the structural weight. If an thorough assessment would have been done then the repairs would have not been a surprise now. The report would revealed major building issues years ago.

kevinpate
12-22-2011, 04:51 PM
The dome was a privately funded project.

Actually, it was supposed to be, but if memory serves, the state ended up paying in a fair chunk of change at the end of the project as well.

kevinpate
12-22-2011, 04:53 PM
Also, the need for work elsewhere in the capitol is only a surprise to those who feign surprise. There have been obvious issues for quite some time, dating back well before the dome project. They simply were not a priority to the various leadership, in either party.

Pete
12-22-2011, 05:03 PM
Repairs aren't sexy and they are always put off as long as possible, as there never seems to be a good time.

The state just spent $47 million on the new Judicial Center very nearby.

kevinpate
12-22-2011, 05:16 PM
Over the past couple of decades, the state has revamped lots of the interior and quite some bit of the mechanical. Making public spaces nicer, changing dead and storage space into functioning office space where none have been before, and then reworking some of that as well. The plazas, the tunnels, the legislative chambers, areas outside the gov and lt gov offices, redoing the interior of the courtrooms and judicial offices in the main building, much of this before the dome went up and some of it as the dome went up.
We're talking under several Gov. terms from both parties. Money kept getting found for sexy, as Pete notes, but only rarely for the non-sexy. Much of it, though sexy sort of work, was needed, but other work was needed as well, and known to be needed. But there was no large group advocating for it and so, like so many areas where there is no large clamor for something necessary, it was put off to the side. I suspect large parts will continue to be set aside rather than a concerted effort being made.

NickFiggins
12-22-2011, 09:20 PM
Actually, it was supposed to be, but if memory serves, the state ended up paying in a fair chunk of change at the end of the project as well. Yes it actually came out of the rainy day fund. Truly a move in fiscal incompetence by Frank Keating.

MikeOKC
12-22-2011, 09:51 PM
Yes it actually came out of the rainy day fund. Truly a move in fiscal incompetence by Frank Keating.

I had actually forgotten that - but you're exactly right.

bombermwc
12-23-2011, 06:30 AM
Well it was always Keating's pet project to get the dome up. Remember the dome was originally planned in the design of the building and it wasn't added because the state ran out of money back in the 20's or whenever it was. So keep that in mind, because that means the building is strucurally capable of holding much more than it does now. The dome is built out of a lighter weight conrete that is far lighter than the limestone of the rest of the building. They actually tinted the conrete as well so it would match the color of the rest of the building and not looke like a bright white cap on a dingy body.

Listening to the end of the video, if the state only has a 150 million shortfall, then they did pretty good. Especially considering that equates to what, a few miles of 4 lane highway. As Fallin said, a bond issue is probably the best way to go to do this, but the problem will be what will get worse in the meantime? You could end up with a 200 million project by the time the bond money is colleceted at a high enough level to do anything.

kevinpate
12-23-2011, 08:09 AM
Other than it would require Republicans to suck it up to put it into place, what would be wrong with a MAPs type temporary state sales tax instead of the more expensive and costly bond route? A 1 year to 18 month state-wide 1/4 penny would raise enough to do the capitol, and get a few other potential bond sort of projects as well (provided they kept their hands outta the new til.)

RadicalModerate
12-23-2011, 08:15 AM
I think the dome looks great. I am glad they put the dome on the building. I'm probably wrong, but I would imagine that when the dome addition was done, it was done in such a way that you could probably remove the entire original building and it would still be up there on something resembling stilts. If not, I hope that the architects' and engineers' insurance is paid up . . . I'd hate to see the entire structure ringed with "Caution" tape and everybody having to work out in the parking lot. Although that would lend an element of transparency to government . . .

Thunder
12-23-2011, 08:27 AM
They can include the Capitol White House in the next MAPS project. The building is just old age and naturally falling apart. Its not the dome or anything else. I don't think the problem was as serious as it is now when they started the dome project. Now we are dealing with more earthquakes and constant politicians screaming/stomping in the building that is now requiring urgent repairs and improvements to the building. I don't think its anything of dire urgency, so just wait it out and include it in the next MAPS project whenever we all go to vote for approval. Are we at MAPS 3 or 4 now?

rcjunkie
12-23-2011, 10:42 AM
They can include the Capitol White House in the next MAPS project. The building is just old age and naturally falling apart. Its not the dome or anything else. I don't think the problem was as serious as it is now when they started the dome project. Now we are dealing with more earthquakes and constant politicians screaming/stomping in the building that is now requiring urgent repairs and improvements to the building. I don't think its anything of dire urgency, so just wait it out and include it in the next MAPS project whenever we all go to vote for approval. Are we at MAPS 3 or 4 now?

The MAPS program is for City Buildings, projects, etc;, the Capitol is a State building.

Thunder
12-23-2011, 11:09 AM
The MAPS program is for City Buildings, projects, etc;, the Capitol is a State building.

Okay, they can include the state building.

RadicalModerate
12-23-2011, 01:21 PM
No they can't . . .
It's against The Law.

Perhaps a makeshift Dome over Kerr Park while The Legislators do "the peoples' business" in public would be a nice Christmas Present?
Along with a few little kiosks for The Washington D.C. Crew?
Replete with State O' The Art Internet Connections . . . =)

BTW, Thunder: RCJ beat me to the practical punch on the different levels of law 'n politics 'n funding 'n so forth etc.
I think the primary problem is overuse of the pronoun "they" . . . =)

Thunder
12-23-2011, 01:39 PM
I disagree that its against the law. The white house is within OKC and the people can freely vote to approve a tax hike within the next MAPS to do emergency repairs along with more glamorous cosmetic upgrades.

rcjunkie
12-23-2011, 01:41 PM
I disagree that its against the law. The white house is within OKC and the people can freely vote to approve a tax hike within the next MAPS to do emergency repairs along with more glamorous cosmetic upgrades.

Tax hike for Capitol repairs--yes, but the CITY can not include it in a MAPS proposal. This is something the STATE would have to do, not the CITY.

RadicalModerate
12-23-2011, 01:48 PM
Read that post again, Thunder.
RC's post.
Then read it again.
It's The Law.

Then go to Law School and become a legislator.
After having served effectively in the capacity of . . . oh . . . i dunno . . .
A CityCouncil Person....? =)

But be prepared to take tests about stuff regarding Spelunkian Cave Explorers.
(Like the caves in the basement of The Capitol Building containing The Secret Archives . . .)

Spartan
12-23-2011, 11:12 PM
Well maybe they won't fund the repairs and our state capitol will fall down. Hopefully, with all the legislators inside of it...

Larry OKC
12-24-2011, 12:04 AM
From what I recall, the Dome was to be 100% private donations and I don't recall the final percentage, but believe the vast majority was achieved that way (there is the list of major donors names/corporate entities inscribed in a ring or something)

The State stepped in and approved a bond issue (which was later challenged in court and successfully overturned because of logrolling). But because the bonds had already been sold for the Dome, they were left "as is" and the unsold bonds/projects thrown out (courts don't like to "unstir the pot"). With a stern admonition by the State Supreme Court not to let it happen again, but they continue to ignore that directive.

Don't recall any Rainy Day funds being used for the Dome, but maybe they were???

RadicalModerate
12-24-2011, 11:35 PM
I have a feeling that either The Round Barn in Arcadia or the Temple Addition to the Original Statehouse in Guthrie might be available as temporary meeting places while the Legislature Suffers under the weight of The Dome . . . (and worrying about it and stuff like that there) . . .

Is Kerr Park presently unoccupied?

Snowman
12-25-2011, 06:54 AM
I have a feeling that either The Round Barn in Arcadia or the Temple Addition to the Original Statehouse in Guthrie might be available as temporary meeting places while the Legislature Suffers under the weight of The Dome . . . (and worrying about it and stuff like that there) . . .

Is Kerr Park presently unoccupied?

not 24/7 but they had plans to meet periodically

Larry OKC
12-25-2011, 08:10 PM
LOL, that describes our Legislature pretty well too...Feb thru May session....rarely meet before Noon on Monday and usually adjourn before Noon on Thurs (4 day work week)...about a third of the time they are there, they meet for 20 minutes or less (just enough time to take roll and get their coffee & donuts)

Thunder
12-25-2011, 08:35 PM
Yeah, I don't appreciate state leaders and national leaders working so few hours and making thousands, if not millions, of money. Like you said, only a few months of the year. What the hell do they do the rest of the year? Party?! I'm very disappointed and don't think none of them (current and future) deserve my vote, because its one hella promotion to gain such status, work way less, and become instant rich. If I was to be elected for whatever office, I'll for sure keep on working all year round and constantly call on everyone to show up and get things done. I would even listen to my fellow friends on here regarding what they want to see for this grand ole state.

bombermwc
12-26-2011, 09:21 AM
I think that's probably a feeling that a lot of people across the U.S. have. The federal government is as disfunctional as i've ever seen it. What we can say, is that at least our state government isn't a screwed up. And in fact have been able to clean some things up lately. If we can maintain some fiscal responsibility, it would help greatly.

Bunty
12-27-2011, 08:02 PM
Other than it would require Republicans to suck it up to put it into place, what would be wrong with a MAPs type temporary state sales tax instead of the more expensive and costly bond route? A 1 year to 18 month state-wide 1/4 penny would raise enough to do the capitol, and get a few other potential bond sort of projects as well (provided they kept their hands outta the new til.)

Forget raising any state taxes. Years ago voters made it difficult for legislators to raise a state tax. Perhaps, if a limestone fell on a legislator's head and killed him or her, they could get enough votes to make up the required 75% majority required to pass a tax increase to repair the capitol. Instead, tax cuts should be put off until the Capitol repairs are paid and, secondly, stop giving out tax deductions to businesses until they have actually produced jobs. No wonder getting a bond is tempting since bond rates are still low.

Maybe a state wide vote to approve temporarily raising the state sales tax to pay for Capitol repairs could be tried, especially if the economy further improves.

Just the facts
12-30-2011, 08:51 AM
The State spends $8 billion every year. Revenue is not the problem, priorities are the problem.

SoonerDave
12-31-2011, 03:34 PM
Is there not some sort of repair and maintenance budget for state-owned facilities?

kevinpate
12-31-2011, 04:01 PM
Is there not some sort of repair and maintenance budget for state-owned facilities?

yeah. something gets too danged bad, then something else gets shorted to cover it. Sort of like bridge upkeep when you think about it, except we care way more about bridges than state buildings.

RadicalModerate
01-02-2012, 10:26 AM
Did you know that the State Capitol Building (that is, the base for The Dome) was constructed at a cost of 17-cents per square foot?
(No wonder it's crumbling!)

bluedogok
01-02-2012, 10:42 AM
The dome pretty much has its own support structure. There is no way a structural engineer would have sealed the drawings on a design that relied on the structure of an 80 year old building. For one thing even though the original capitol building was designed with a dome in mind it would never meet the structural codes in effect around 2000 when the dome was designed and constructed.

Snowman
01-02-2012, 11:30 AM
Did you know that the State Capitol Building (that is, the base for The Dome) was constructed at a cost of 17-cents per square foot?
(No wonder it's crumbling!)

Trying to compare today's construction dollars to 1919-ish construction dollars is almost a joke with how inflation, labor cost, material procurement & standards have changed drastically over the last ninety years and it was near the end of the era for that built style. Most buildings today would be in far worse shape after ninety years.

Bunty
01-02-2012, 12:59 PM
The State spends $8 billion every year. Revenue is not the problem, priorities are the problem.

Then what areas are the state of Oklahoma misplacing priorities by spending too much? Does any conservative know?

Just the facts
01-02-2012, 01:01 PM
Then where is the state of Oklahoma spending too much? Does any conservative know?

Provide me with a copy of the State budget and I will give it a going through.

RadicalModerate
01-02-2012, 02:15 PM
The dome pretty much has its own support structure. There is no way a structural engineer would have sealed the drawings on a design that relied on the structure of an 80 year old building. For one thing even though the original capitol building was designed with a dome in mind it would never meet the structural codes in effect around 2000 when the dome was designed and constructed.

Ref. Post #13 (this thread) . . .

"Trying to compare today's construction dollars to 1919-ish construction dollars is almost a joke with how inflation, labor cost, material procurement & standards have changed drastically over the last ninety years and it was near the end of the era for that built style. Most buildings today would be in far worse shape after ninety years."

". . . almost a joke?
dang.

Okay . . . So, how about OSHA mandates that everyone entering/doing business in the Capitol Building has to wear a hardhat--to protect from the falling limestones--and approved breathing apparatus on account of all the stray asbestos floating around in there? Lobbyists have to wear those "moon suits" . . .

Snowman
01-02-2012, 08:42 PM
Okay . . . So, how about OSHA mandates that everyone entering/doing business in the Capitol Building has to wear a hardhat--to protect from the falling limestones--and approved breathing apparatus on account of all the stray asbestos floating around in there? Lobbyists have to wear those "moon suits" . . .

We may not want to go to far with that idea, the lobbyists would probably enjoy the additional anonymity if they can tint the visor.

RadicalModerate
01-02-2012, 09:41 PM
Come to think of it, they could probably hide a lot of cash in those moon suits . . .
But at least you'd be able to spot them easily.