http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-13188-lockout-lookout.html

GREEDY PLAYERS! They need to realize that the economy is not what it was five years ago!

The owners need to stop paying players so much!

They are both at fault!

GREEDY PLAYERS! They need to realize that the economy is not what it was five years ago!

The owners need to stop paying players so much!

They are both at fault!

I don't think its the players. I think its the unions.

Yeah, unions suck! I don't understand why they even have them really? They get paid millions or a few hundred thousand a year..... How unsafe of a working environment can a basketball court be? They almost all have agents to negotiate their deals. What use is a union, but to make the owners and fans frustrated!

The players can opt of out of the unions! There is so much competition internationally for players now, they don't have to worry about not having a job.

ITS A GAME! REALLY!

Because, I think the unions get a percentage of the money.

Read more: http://newsok.com/canceled-nba-season-would-be-blow-to-oklahoma-city-budget-businesses/article/3609615#ixzz1ZxrXIks6

Good to see both balanced articles on the subject and surprising that the Chamber guy would admit this:

Roy Williams, president of the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber, noted that most spending by local residents on the Thunder is discretionary, so people would likely find other ways to entertain themselves and much of the money would remain in the area.
The argument usually falls on two sides. Either pro sports teams have a near zero economic impact or they have multi-millions worth. Depending on what they want depends on the argument used. For example the Sonic's owners claimed the team had all sorts of economic impact when they were trying to get a new $300MM to $500MM arena built by the taxpayers, yet did a 180 when they were trying to get out of their lease early. To be fair, Seattle did the same flip-flop.

The headline makes it sound like it will be rather devasting "blow" to the City coffers but if you read the article, the City says not so much, just a "bump in the road"...


From the Gazette article starting this thread:

“It would be difficult to replace,” he said. “If you have a major concert, that’s great, and it’s good to have a solid programming mix with the arena, but it’s pretty tough to come up with 41-plus concerts that’s going to have that direct spending impact.”
While this may be true to replace those essentially at the last minute, it was concerts that kept the Arena running at an operational profit before the Thunder came.


“Saying losing games has no negative economic impact assumes that every dollar spent on the Thunder is local, which is simply not true,” Williams said. “People travel from surrounding communities to watch the Thunder, eat at our restaurants and shop at our stores. That would be money lost if there are no games.”
Partially true. They travel for the other events as well. The tricky part is replacing those 41 days on such short notice. There should have been a clause in the lease that says at least the City would get paid for any canceled games...

I don't think its the players. I think its the unions.

It's not the players or the unions. It's the owners who have picked this fight -- and unlike the players union, they have been unwilling to offer any compromise. This has been very one-sided.

The owners have moved away from the hard cap. The problem is, and it could end up being a problem for OKC at some point in time, that 30% of the teams operate in the red. Most of those are small market teams and/or teams that don't make the playoffs, as a playoff run adds a fair amount of cash to a team's coffers. The NBA doesn't have the massive television contract that the NFL does and so league profit sharing isn't enough to keep a team afloat if they're in the cellar and attendance is poor. Teams in bigger cities like NY, Chicago, LA have the extra revenue from their television contracts and have many more sponsors, so they can afford to go over the luxury cap to sign the better players. Which means, if you're not a team with a poor GM like the Knicks under Isaiah Thomas, the teams from the bigger cities are more likely to end up in the playoffs, again, pulling in even more revenue.

Personally, I thought the hard cap was fairer for the small market teams, since the bigger market teams don't share any of their local revenue, but barring that, a better split percentage-wise would be helpful for the owners. I realize that ownership of a team should basically be considered a hobby, but it's a lot less fun when you're a small market owner and you can't compete against other members of your league for the better players and you have to watch your team lose on a regular basis.

Oklahoma City got lucky in the draft and they have a smart GM. If Kevin Durant is lured away by one of those bigger markets with a lot of money and/or Sam Presti is, we could easily end up a small market hurting for wins, fans and cash.

Yeah, unions suck! I don't understand why they even have them really? They get paid millions or a few hundred thousand a year..... How unsafe of a working environment can a basketball court be? They almost all have agents to negotiate their deals. What use is a union, but to make the owners and fans frustrated!

The players can opt of out of the unions! There is so much competition internationally for players now, they don't have to worry about not having a job.

ITS A GAME! REALLY!

Why would players opt out of unions? The owners have a monopoly on bargaining power if that happens. Right now, there are two indispensable things which make the NBA work--owners and players. Neither exists without the other. How dumb would it be for the players to go to the owners (mostly billionaires) and just say "pay me whatever you want to, structure my pay structure however you want to, I trust you." Think that'll turn out well?

Why would players opt out of unions?

Not sure..... but I keep reading that they may 'de-certify', not to sure why they would want this ?

Anyone know of any advantage for this ?

Without Thunder

http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-13194-without-thunder.html

It's not the players or the unions. It's the owners who have picked this fight -- and unlike the players union, they have been unwilling to offer any compromise. This has been very one-sided.

Well, it's pretty clear you haven't followed this situation at all--or at least more than glancing at a Yahoo! Sports headline.

Both sides have offered compromises, but both are being extremely stubborn right now as they think they can get more.

As an update for those that have not followed closely - both sides are making concessions, just not there yet.

from ESPN-

Stern said a small group of owners and players had broached a 50-50 split of basketball-related income Tuesday, but were told by the players that would not be acceptable.

But sources said the league really offered 49 percent, with the expectation the share would grow to 51 percent based on incentives -- and the players offered a counterpropsal of 51 percent, likely to grow to 53 percent, which the owners turned down.

In a letter to the union membership Wednesday, Hunter and Fisher explained why they believed the idea of a 50-50 split was not acceptable.

Anytiime any person (player, owner, union) that makes what all of these guys do, start complaining about their salaries or income, i get totally turned off. Players make millions in a year...already more than they should. The owners are losing money in a lot of places because of that. They can't charge more for tickets because everyone else is down on their income. They are stuck in leases that they got themselves in to in all the new arenas they "had" to have. So there is plenty blame on both sides, so both sides need to make consessions. A salary cap is stop #1...make it happen and level the playing field between the cities as well. Moneyball anyone?

As in all other enterprises, the forces of the ownership class, those sacred job creators sitting on piles of cash, are using the man made global economic calamity as an excuse to cripple workers, the actual producers. Clay, Aubrey all on board here for sure. Notice Aubery duked himself another nasty bonus this year for sheperding the company to a net 50% loss in stock value. He's rightfully being sued by shareholders.Is this what they're going on about with merit pay for teachers? Pretty sure the unions will be on board.

Anytiime any person (player, owner, union) that makes what all of these guys do, start complaining about their salaries or income, i get totally turned off. Players make millions in a year...already more than they should. The owners are losing money in a lot of places because of that. They can't charge more for tickets because everyone else is down on their income. They are stuck in leases that they got themselves in to in all the new arenas they "had" to have. So there is plenty blame on both sides, so both sides need to make consessions. A salary cap is stop #1...make it happen and level the playing field between the cities as well. Moneyball anyone? You're thin king of Kobe and KD. The majoirity of player aren't Kobe and KD and need worker organization to maximize their worth. When did the rule go into effect that when smart bidness men make bad loans and deals, the working class has to bail them out.

I don't think the owners need a bailout, but I also don't think it's unfair for them to ask to break even. The problem is, given the way revenue sharing is done in the NBA, some of the owners are making a fair amount of money and some are losing millions every year. It's also possible for players like Kobe and KD to restructure the player contract so they make less and their teammates make a bit more. I don't really consider people making $850,000 a year minimum the working class. There are very few people without a college degree who make that kind of money, even for if only for a few years. There should be a way to restructure the contract so no one loses money and the players make a decent wage.

If you're talking about fans as the working class, you can vote with your pocketbook by not going to games or watching the team on television. Personally, I'm willing to pay what I do to see world class basketball live.

Professional sports careers on ave quite short so get it while you can. NBA a microcosm of what's infected the country, the workers being forced to bail out bad business by the sacred job creators.

'Professional sports careers on ave quite short so get it while you can.'

They can make a deal, stay in the NBA and play for a bit less, or they can go overseas and play for a bit less.

Also, China will not accept players unless the player is a free agent or unsigned rookie.

What's the problem ?

Ed -

You ever own a business ?

Ed -

You ever own a business ?

Ever own a business that the taxpayers paid for the physical plant?

Yes, I drive every day on the streets.

JB - you think they possibly might have a lease ?

OKC-Sonics agree to form Ford Center lease
Posted by Darnell Mayberry on March 14, 2008M at 6:52 pm
Oklahoma City officials today announced an agreement with the Seattle SuperSonics on a letter of intent to enter into a lease for the use of the Ford Center. The lease, which is expected to be finalized before the NBA Board of Governors vote on the Sonics relocation application next month, will have an initial term of 15 years and will begin no sooner than the 2008-09 season and no later than the 2010-11 season.
The letter of intent is here. A couple of key points…..
* At the end of the initial 15-year lease, the team will have the option to extend the lease for five additional three-year periods.
* The team must pay the city $28,000 in game day expenses and additional rent of $12,000 per game
* The team will have priority to the Ford Center’s schedule for all preseason, regular season and postseason NBA games as well as priority for up to 10 non-game day events.
* The team will receive 40% of the first $2.5 million in concessions; 42.5% of next $2.5 million and 45% of the balance. The team will receive 25% of first $1.25 million in suite revenue; 27.5% of next $500,000 and 30% of the balance. The team will receive 10% of clubs and restaurants revenue and 15% of bar revenue.
* The team will have the right to negotiate a new naming rights deal, but the team must pay the city the $409,000 annually that it currently receives under existing deal with the Oklahoma Ford Dealers.
* The team must pay the city $100,000 per year for use of the practice facility. The city must pay for all capital repairs and replacements at the practice facility.
* The team can opt out of the arena lease, the food and beverage agreement and the practice facility lease at the end of six years and at one or more other undetermined point in time during the initial 15-year lease if the average of team ticket revenue for the preceding two years fall below 85% of a benchmark of average ticket revenues in the first two full seasons following completion of arena renovations.
We will have much more coverage on NewsOK.com and in Saturday’s editions of The Oklahoman.

Congrats, Chamberbots. You failed OKC miserably. Way to go, pat yourself on the back for throwing all that tax payer money away.

Congrats, Chamberbots. You failed OKC miserably. Way to go, pat yourself on the back for throwing all that tax payer money away.

Note to myself. Keep patting on my back. I love it. LOL

I went by the arena last night and it looks great all lit up. I could see just a hint of the blue band around the top from my house, but up close it really looks good. It does kind of remind me of the blue flame associated with CNG, and I wondered if that was behind their color choice when they bought the team. It's sad to think of no basketball this month and maybe next month. It sounds like the players and owners were a lot closer to an agreement at the close of the day yesterday, so I'm hoping they'll "get er done" by today. At this point in time, going to holday and, especially, the New Years Eve, games is starting to feel like a family tradition.

I went by the arena last night and it looks great all lit up. I could see just a hint of the blue band around the top from my house, but up close it really looks good. It does kind of remind me of the blue flame associated with CNG, and I wondered if that was behind their color choice when they bought the team. It's sad to think of no basketball this month and maybe next month. It sounds like the players and owners were a lot closer to an agreement at the close of the day yesterday, so I'm hoping they'll "get er done" by today. At this point in time, going to holday and, especially, the New Years Eve, games is starting to feel like a family tradition.

It's sounding worse now, Betts. And I hearing much more serious speculation that the entire season might go.

Personally, i'm tired of them pissing and moaning. They're arguing about their millions while millions don't have anything. It's just a farce. It might do both sides good to go without for a year and see what happens.

Owners and players aren't the biggest losers of the NBA lockout, an OCU economics professor says. It's the fans and Oklahomans, particularly those taxpayers who couldn't care less.

Commentary: Fans lose in lockout

http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-13506-fans-lose-in-lockout.html

So if the entire season is lost does that mean the players lose 1 year of their contract? For example, this year would be Nate Robinson's last year in Oklahoma City but if there isn't a season does that mean he can come back next year and play his last year here?

Personally, i'm tired of them pissing and moaning. They're arguing about their millions while millions don't have anything. It's just a farce. It might do both sides good to go without for a year and see what happens.

I predict an influx of extra tall people at the Occupy Events.
(Perhaps with signs reading: "Will Sign Autographs for Cash")

Well, the NBA players association has about 4 more hours to do a complete 360 accept David Stern's ultimatum. (They already announced yesterday they wouldn't). So yeah, chances of having a season this year are slim. The chances of decertification and lawsuits are, however, not slim at all.

Now they say it'll all be resolved in the next couple of days.....both sides are coming together. First paychecks missed, by both sides, is Nov 16.......

I think it was NBC Dateline, the one that comes on at 5:30, showed a story about how the lockout is affecting the people and cities in an extreme harmful way. A lady working at an arena was making $17+ an hour taking care of the players' clothes. Since the lockout, the paychecks stopped for her. Now she is having a hard time, especially during the holidays season and it appears that she was having to move out of her home. The story was also showing the estimated revenue losses for the cities including $60 million dollars lost for OKC with laid off workers, etc.

I recorded the DVR and plan to post the story along with a message on YouTube. Its sad that all of the greedy players, including our OKC Thunder, don't care about the cities and people working for a living. These selfish players only care about themselves. They bring home millions while having fun and enjoying the fame. Well, its not enough for them losers.

Even though I do not watch basketball and not considered a fan of a team, I just want to say to all the fans that we should no longer support our local team and all other teams. They don't deserve it. Kevin Durant's response in a news interview recently showed that he don't care about anything but himself. I will be back with the video as soon I access my own comp for editing.

I think it was NBC Dateline, the one that comes on at 5:30, showed a story about how the lockout is affecting the people and cities in an extreme harmful way. A lady working at an arena was making $17+ an hour taking care of the players' clothes. Since the lockout, the paychecks stopped for her. Now she is having a hard time, especially during the holidays season and it appears that she was having to move out of her home. The story was also showing the estimated revenue losses for the cities including $60 million dollars lost for OKC with laid off workers, etc.

I recorded the DVR and plan to post the story along with a message on YouTube. Its sad that all of the greedy players, including our OKC Thunder, don't care about the cities and people working for a living. These selfish players only care about themselves. They bring home millions while having fun and enjoying the fame. Well, its not enough for them losers.

Even though I do not watch basketball and not considered a fan of a team, I just want to say to all the fans that we should no longer support our local team and all other teams. They don't deserve it. Kevin Durant's response in a news interview recently showed that he don't care about anything but himself. I will be back with the video as soon I access my own comp for editing.

So I guess you feel the owners are on our side? You have to keep in mind were hurting the merchants too if we boycott the team.

So I guess you feel the owners are on our side? You have to keep in mind were hurting the merchants too if we boycotted the team.

The owners pay a lot of money and investments. The players need to shut up and play. They are already making way too much money. Hell, they make millions when they lose games, too! I'm not sure why NBA officals get free money...maybe to pay the referees and other important things. The players don't understand that and don't care sh!t about it. Do we see Obama protesting because he makes less than Kevin Durant? No! These players are setting a very bad example to the children and will never be an ideal hero to them. This is hurting the people and cities the most in a severe way. Combining all the cities and workers together, this is the most expensive financial disaster compared to any natural disasters caused by mother nature.

The owners pay a lot of money and investments. The players need to shut up and play. They are already making way too much money. Hell, they make millions when they lose games, too! I'm not sure why NBA officals get free money...maybe to pay the referees and other important things. The players don't understand that and don't carWe sh!t about it. Do we see Obama protesting because he makes less than Kevin Durant? No! These players are setting a very bad example to the children and will never be an ideal hero to them. This is hurting the people and cities the most in a severe way. Combining all the cities and workers together, this is the most expensive financial disaster compared to any natural disasters caused by mother nature.

Well the truth is both sides are 'greedy'. Saying NBA players are critical to economy is just helping their cause. Their not public servants, at the end of the day its still a business. When the demand for them is high their salary goes up and vice versa.