View Full Version : Lake Overholser and Hefner



ranbunctious
10-02-2011, 10:17 AM
Anybody seen the city lakes? OMG Whoever manages the lakes is absolutely worthless. I wish they'd let me manage the lakes. The first thing I'd do is dredge them about 10 feet deeper while the water's gone. They could sell the bottom dirt (silt) to offset the cost. That dirt is the richest and most fertile dirt around. Maybe even let people go out and dig their own. I couldn't believe Overholser is only about 2 feet deep in the deepest part. Boats are on the dirt at Hefner. The fishing docks are over shallow water and are not baited or have proper underwater structure. If they don't dig Overholser deeper, it will always be a worthless mud hole.

Snowman
10-02-2011, 11:49 AM
While they will preferably have enough water for recreation and look pretty, their first priority is managing quantity and quality the water supply. They will prioritize the drinking supply over recreation every time.

The following has been discuses in a few other threads about this but to summarize. Overholser was dry before the drought due to construction on the old 66 bridge and a temporary dam built for that. As far as digging/dredging they do not like to do that because it releases a lot of heavy minerals that have settled over time which then has to be pulled out before the water is suitable to drink.

ranbunctious
10-02-2011, 12:06 PM
I didn't think Overholser water was pumped and purified into the system. I thought it was just a backup to Hefner. If that's the case, it would be wonderful to have that lake about 8 feet deeper. It would be much better fish habitat too. The thousands of fish there now are condemned to about a foot of water. No doubt there is a massive die-off happening. I just don't get why this lake absolutely must be so shallow??? It's absolutely useless as it is. How long does it take for the minerals to settle and the water to become non-toxic?

OKCTalker
10-02-2011, 12:34 PM
Ran - Get up to speed. The most recent water release from Canton has been delayed until it rains. It they release water towards Hefner & Overholser into a dry riverbed, much of it will be lost to absorption.

That's GOOD water management.

Snowman
10-02-2011, 01:12 PM
I didn't think Overholser water was pumped and purified into the system. I thought it was just a backup to Hefner. If that's the case, it would be wonderful to have that lake about 8 feet deeper. It would be much better fish habitat too. The thousands of fish there now are condemned to about a foot of water. No doubt there is a massive die-off happening. I just don't get why this lake absolutely must be so shallow??? It's absolutely useless as it is. How long does it take for the minerals to settle and the water to become non-toxic?

It was not a backup, it was the original OKC reservoir, it is nearing 100 years old, something around 40 years older than both Canton and Hefner. The city started planning another one shortly after it was finished I think even before the dust bowl, but it was a step up from not having any water practically every year when wells were going dry in the summer. It started out at a much more uniform depth but over time it has become half filled. While their is an operating water treatment plant station at it I think it only operates at peak summer months, it will probably affect several nearby cities downstream as well.

bluedogok
10-02-2011, 02:15 PM
Silt is a big problem with Overholser since it sit on an active river, they have dredged it in the past but not very often. As previously stated, re-dredging it creates other water quality problems that has to be dealt with.

Stanley Draper Lake is another water source for OKC as well.

oneforone
10-02-2011, 02:42 PM
I could be wrong but... I thought the city had plans to develop another lake to the east of Draper.

ck76
10-02-2011, 04:36 PM
The Oklahoma River gets all of Overholsers water....

Snowman
10-02-2011, 04:49 PM
I could be wrong but... I thought the city had plans to develop another lake to the east of Draper.

I know they were working on getting rights to store/use a large volume of water at an existing lake southwest of the city but I had expected from how close it is to Lake Atoka it seems like they would just be making an extension of the 60 inch pipe between Lake Atoka & Draper so would not need another local reservoir. We might be thinking of different projects though.

rcjunkie
10-02-2011, 05:41 PM
Anybody seen the city lakes? OMG Whoever manages the lakes is absolutely worthless. I wish they'd let me manage the lakes. The first thing I'd do is dredge them about 10 feet deeper while the water's gone. They could sell the bottom dirt (silt) to offset the cost. That dirt is the richest and most fertile dirt around. Maybe even let people go out and dig their own. I couldn't believe Overholser is only about 2 feet deep in the deepest part. Boats are on the dirt at Hefner. The fishing docks are over shallow water and are not baited or have proper underwater structure. If they don't dig Overholser deeper, it will always be a worthless mud hole.

I worked for the City for almost 30 years, and I never knew the Mayor, City Manager or Council had Mother Natures Phone Number, get me the number and i'll call and ask for what 5--6 inch's

FritterGirl
10-03-2011, 09:38 AM
Ran - Get up to speed. The most recent water release from Canton has been delayed until it rains. It they release water towards Hefner & Overholser into a dry riverbed, much of it will be lost to absorption.

That's GOOD water management.

It's not my department, but this is absolutely correct. The City is just as reliant upon Mother Nature right now as homeowners are. Simply put, the irrigation channels that transport the water to Overholser and/or Hefner are just as dried up as the Lakes themselves, moreso. Releasing water into them means that any water released is wasted when it is quickly absorbed into the dry ground. They have to wait until there is enough water already in the irrigation channels so they don't waste water by losing it to absorption.

As OKCTalker said, it is GOOD water management.

It's unfortunate that it has come to this, but this is what can occur after months and months of high temperatures and little rainfall.

OKCTalker
10-03-2011, 11:29 AM
I read recently that "Lake Overholser is almost empty," so I paid a visit on Saturday. The south shoreline appears to be almost dam-like, so the water's edge is horizontally near where it would have been in wetter times, although it is vertically lower by 6-8 feet. However, when looking onto the lake from the north shore, it is dramatic! The lake bottom is shallow there, so the water's edge has receded hundreds of yards from where it usually is. If you simply looked south from the north shore, you might be deceived into thinking that this was the situation all the way around. To paraphrase Will Rogers, "You need to see it from all sides."

It's grim to be sure, but some liberties are being taken in describing the conditions.

Bill Robertson
10-03-2011, 01:47 PM
Anybody seen the city lakes? OMG Whoever manages the lakes is absolutely worthless. I wish they'd let me manage the lakes. The first thing I'd do is dredge them about 10 feet deeper while the water's gone. They could sell the bottom dirt (silt) to offset the cost. That dirt is the richest and most fertile dirt around. Maybe even let people go out and dig their own. I couldn't believe Overholser is only about 3 feet deep in the deepest part. Boats are on the dirt at Hefner. The fishing docks are over shallow water and are not baited or have proper underwater structure. If they don't dig Overholser deeper, it will always be a worthless mud hole.Actually Overholser is about 4 feet deep at the most shallow north end when full. The deepest part by the dam is over 20 feet. I have a vested interest in lake levels. My boat normally is in Hefner and would be on dry land if I had not pulled it out before the ramps became unusable. It's not good but as powerful as OKC is they cannot make it rain. Even if it rains enough to release water from Canton I understand Canton is about 5 feet low and if so they won't take enough to make a whole lot of difference in Hefner and Overholser. Also, it's my understanding from those who fish that the docks at Hefner are very good fishing under normal conditions.

bluedogok
10-03-2011, 08:38 PM
Lake Travis is 60 feet below full and about 38 feet below average right now, all public boat ramps are closed. The Highland Lakes that all feed into Travis are all at historical lows. Wasn't large parts of Lake Texoma closed this summer? It is just a bad summer for lakes all over the area.

Martin
10-04-2011, 06:27 AM
Wasn't large parts of Lake Texoma closed this summer?

yep... due to low water levels and algae. -M

Double Edge
10-04-2011, 06:42 AM
I'm somewhat surprised we haven't had water rationing. I guess the managers think they have it all under control.

kevinpate
10-04-2011, 07:22 AM
Speaking of lakes, is the work still on-going at Draper, or has it been completed? I was shocked at how low it was earlier until someone here clued me in on the missed by me announcement that the water level was deliberately lowered due to some work underway there.

OKCTalker
10-04-2011, 08:17 AM
I'm somewhat surprised we haven't had water rationing. I guess the managers think they have it all under control.

If no one ran out of water during this drought, obviously they do.

Mikemarsh51
10-10-2011, 11:10 PM
The pump upgrades for Draper are complete. The city is still upgrading the lake in other areas while the water is down, they built a huge breakwater at the main ramp and repaired the ramp. The city was pumping approx. 120 million gallons a day from Atoka and using about 110 million a day. Draper has no rivers running through it, all water comes from Atoka. It could take up to 5 years to fill it back to normal. OKC owns Atoka, Sardis and McGee Creek. Water may be pumped from Sardis and McGee to Atoka, not yet though. The proposed lake next to Draper is called West Elm Creek reservoir. There is a West Elm Creek that runs south, west of Draper.

Midtowner
10-11-2011, 09:41 AM
Are they going to go ahead and release from Canton now? Rode around Hefner last night and it was amazingly low.

Double Edge
10-11-2011, 09:48 AM
I don't know if it was from the rain or a release from Canton but Stinchcomb, the Canadian through Stinchcomb and the canal alongside Overholser are full. The Canadian at Highway 4 north of Yukon is still a trickle so whatever happened, isn't happening this morning. I suspect it's runoff from the recent rain.

Double Edge
10-11-2011, 10:35 AM
What's the story with the Chickasaw/Neal McCaleb commercial where he talks about water? Does the Chickasaw Nation have some important control of water in Oklahoma?

Midtowner
10-11-2011, 11:09 AM
Totally separate issue, could take its own thread. Basically, old case law (early 20th century) said that certain tribes in the Western U.S. had water rights implied in their treaties. There's also a legal theory that when the tribes moved to their reservations, they conveyed away their right to occupy their land but they never conveyed away the water or mineral rights in many cases and therefore retained them. The Chickasaw issue centers around Sardis lake. The Tribe waited around until the lake was built and paid for by OKC as had been planned, then they asserted that they owned some of that water and wanted to sell it to Texas. Their theory is probably centered on Winters vs. U.S. in which the Court held that when the feds put natives on their land, they planned for them to be an agrarian people. Thus, an implied grant of water rights--enough to irrigate all of the irrigable land was part of the deal. Now we know Eastern OK doesn't really need extra water for irrigation, so the indians' argument is probably a non-starter, but if they have ANY measure of success, the implications for U.S. water policy could be severe.

Bellaboo
10-11-2011, 11:29 AM
I read an article where the Caddo Nation is now claiming aboriginal water rights from Southeastern Oklahoma, superceeding the Chickasaw and Choctaw tribes - here's a snippet...



The Caddo Nation of Oklahoma is asserting aboriginal water rights in southeast Oklahoma.


Responding to questions from CapitolBeatOK, Brenda Shemayme Edwards, chairman of the Caddo, said, “While the Choctaw and Chickasaw are exerting their treaty rights, we will exert our aboriginal rights.” Aboriginal rights pre-date treaties and other laws, and are viewed by some legal analysts as dispositive.

Midtowner
10-11-2011, 12:27 PM
Some legal analysts don't even buy the notion of aboriginal water rights.

Bellaboo
10-11-2011, 12:52 PM
I have no idea where the rights would lay, but thought it interesting how these tribes are all staking their claim.

Snowman
10-11-2011, 11:15 PM
I don't know if it was from the rain or a release from Canton but Stinchcomb, the Canadian through Stinchcomb and the canal alongside Overholser are full. The Canadian at Highway 4 north of Yukon is still a trickle so whatever happened, isn't happening this morning. I suspect it's runoff from the recent rain.

It takes about a week for the water to get here from Canton and they had a much improved level the day after the rain at Stinchcomb & the river basin their, and over the weekend Canton's Conservation percentage only went up. It looks like they did a release from Canton either last night or today.

kevinpate
10-12-2011, 04:56 AM
They said on News 9 last night the release would raise Hefner and Overholser by 5 and 7 feet, but I don't recall which number goes to which lake. Something like 33,000 acre feet of water will be arriving in 4-5 days.

Bellaboo
10-12-2011, 06:54 AM
I believe they said Hefner would get 7, Overholser 5 and Canton would be lower by 5.5 feet.

betts
10-12-2011, 08:33 AM
Of course most people have their sailboats out of the water already, and I suspect not many will take the time and/or money to put their boats back in for a very short season.

gomer_pile
10-12-2011, 07:32 PM
i work for the city at one of the plants.
overholser for the most part these past couple of months has been offline due to poor water quality. the antiquated systems while viable when the lake is full is not capable of treating the water when it is as low as it was just too much mud and silt (main reason they do not dredge). however it is being brought back on line sometime this week or next. on paper it produces something like 16 mgd but in reality can produce 20 mgd. this is just a drop compared to the other 2 plants and will be even smaller when hefner is finished with the expansion. one thing that most people forget about is that overholser also feeds the power plant that supplies most if not all of the power for the city. they require a decent amount of water per day.

this year was extremely hard for ALL aspects of utility work. everything from meter readers to line maintenance to the plant mechanics. 115 degrees is ungodly hot. walking 10 miles while reading meters as well as fixing some 700 line breaks in 2 months is just crazy.

OKCTalker
10-14-2011, 10:01 AM
Nothing coming through Lake Hefner's canal as of as of this morning.

Patrick
10-15-2011, 04:18 AM
Horsheshoe is actually a much larger plant than Mustang. Mustang actually served as a back up generating plant for OG&E up until just a few years back when it was brought back online.

Double Edge
10-15-2011, 05:31 PM
It looks like the beginning of the Canton release just reached Yukon...


http://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?site_no=07239700

cattleman
10-21-2011, 03:05 PM
Horsheshoe is actually a much larger plant than Mustang. Mustang actually served as a back up generating plant for OG&E up until just a few years back when it was brought back online.

This is false. Mustang has continuously been in operation since 1948.

Snowman
01-25-2012, 04:18 AM
A resolution went to city Council yesterday to allow Dolese to do soil samples at Overholser for sand quality, it indicates the city would like it to be dredged, if the samples indicate quality is good enough to be used in their production activities they will begin negotiations to dredge the lake. The maximum it can now hold is 60% of the original capacity.

oneforone
01-25-2012, 04:37 AM
Hopefully the rain will help fill the lakes. It's good to see it.

Snowman
01-25-2012, 04:46 AM
Hopefully the rain will help fill the lakes. It's good to see it.

Sorry, I was meaning that it's maximum it could hold has been decreased by 40% not that the water level was at 60%.

Architect2010
01-25-2012, 06:03 PM
Why though?

jn1780
01-25-2012, 06:54 PM
Why though?

Erosion and sediment from upstream?

bluedogok
01-25-2012, 07:35 PM
Erosion and sediment from upstream?
Yes, Overholser has to be dredged ever so often. That was the case long before there was much development further upstream of the North Canadian River. We used to ride motorcycles at what is now Stinchcomb Wildlife Refuge and we could ride in the river because the water (back then) was always pretty low, the river bed in that area is mostly sand/silt.

ranbunctious
08-20-2012, 07:05 PM
Yes, Overholser has to be dredged ever so often. That was the case long before there was much development further upstream of the North Canadian River. We used to ride motorcycles at what is now Stinchcomb Wildlife Refuge and we could ride in the river because the water (back then) was always pretty low, the river bed in that area is mostly sand/silt.

THANK YOUR SNOWMAN AND BLUEDOG!!! There IS someone in this city with some common sense. Dredging solves half the problem. Now, if we could get some more and better fishing dock management. It's painfully obvious that nobody in city government cares about fishing and recreation. If we stop building arenas and funding millions of dollars into MAPS and bricktown, we could have a decent city with beautiful lakes where people could go fishing and boating and actually enjoy these lakes. There used to be baitshops and cafes around the lakes. In the old days, there was even boat rides at Overholser. How about some REAL development and creative ideas for these lakes, and please don't make it another 'money pit' for the city or chamber of commerce.

OKCisOK4me
08-20-2012, 07:45 PM
REAL? puuuuh-leees. Your fishing plan would not benefit me.

MDot
08-20-2012, 08:19 PM
There's this really nice lake about 100 miles east of Oklahoma City that is famous for fishing and recreation; lake Eufaula is the name of it. I wouldn't have a problem with your suggestion if you weren't also wishing to halt urban development of the city so you can enjoy a top notch fishing and boating experience. And this is a decent city even without a fishing heaven in the center of it.

Bellaboo
08-21-2012, 09:14 AM
If a lake in the middle of the city was a fishing heaven, it wouldn't be for long.

bradh
08-23-2012, 08:49 PM
THANK YOUR SNOWMAN AND BLUEDOG!!! There IS someone in this city with some common sense. Dredging solves half the problem. Now, if we could get some more and better fishing dock management. It's painfully obvious that nobody in city government cares about fishing and recreation. If we stop building arenas and funding millions of dollars into MAPS and bricktown, we could have a decent city with beautiful lakes where people could go fishing and boating and actually enjoy these lakes. There used to be baitshops and cafes around the lakes. In the old days, there was even boat rides at Overholser. How about some REAL development and creative ideas for these lakes, and please don't make it another 'money pit' for the city or chamber of commerce.

sounds like you need to move and live on a real lake. i'm not willing to pinch development in more important core areas in exchange for some better fishing at some inner city lake

bombermwc
08-24-2012, 06:49 AM
deleted.