Here are Steve's articles regarding the Downtown Housing Study set to be accepted today by the City Council:

Survey shows demand is strong for downtown rental housing in Oklahoma City (http://newsok.com/survey-shows-demand-is-strong-for-downtown-rental-housing-in-oklahoma-city/article/3607894#ixzz1Z9z31oTF)

What will study say about downtown Oklahoma City housing in 10 years? (http://newsok.com/what-will-study-say-about-downtown-oklahoma-city-housing-in-10-years/article/3607880#ixzz1Z9zCNpbP)

And here is material related to the housing study (http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/agdocs.aspx?doctype=agenda&itemid=53877) to be submitted at today's Council meeting (note: not sure how long this link will remain in effect.)

Finally, for comparison, here is the OKCTalk thread (http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=3672) (now closed) regarding the 2005 Downtown Housing study.

Interestingly, the 2011 full report does not seem to be attached to today's Council Agenda, only a notation that there is a "file to be submitted." If anyone should find a link to the full report, please feel free to post it -- thanks.

There's a strong demand for rental everywhere because it's difficult to qualify for housing for purchase. As younger people live downtown and grow to appreciate what it offers, as we develop better mass transit and have a school built, we'll probably find more demand for "for sale" housing as that age group matures and is able to save the downpayment required to purchase nowadays. Luckily, we have a lot of land available for development north of the Triangle/Deep Deuce, along Broadway between 13th and 23rd, in the Core to Shore area and along the river. Hopefully we'll have a nice mix of higher density housing both for sale and for rent.

Real Estate development is always a lagging industry, as developers and lenders trend towards what has recently happened in the market (strong recent demand for downtown rental units, for example) instead of what the market will be once their project comes on-line and the years immediately afterward.

You have all these people that make their livings by building and lending and they all tend to pile into the same segment at the same time and when the new projects are finished, that segment is over built and something else is trending.

We already had that happen with downtown for sale units, which is why it is taking years for many of them to sell. I think we may see this happen with downtown apartments as well if we aren't careful.

Real Estate development is always a lagging industry, as developers and lenders trend towards what has recently happened in the market (strong recent demand for downtown rental units, for example) instead of what the market will be once their project comes on-line and the years immediately afterward.

You have all these people that make their livings by building and lending and they all tend to pile into the same segment at the same time and when the new projects are finished, that segment is over built and something else is trending.

We already had that happen with downtown for sale units, which is why it is taking years for many of them to sell. I think we may see this happen with downtown apartments as well if we aren't careful.

I agree completely. The one good option, though, is to sell units that were once rentals. That's happened in other cities, but it's one reason I think we have to be hope that quality over quantity is emphasized. We all know of rentals that look great on day one and ten years later have not aged well. That's my concern. As said in the article I quoted yesterday, it's greenest to build buildings with the quality to endure, and wasteful to build quick and cheap, only to tear down 10 to 20 years later.

I do, however, think the reason we've got for sale housing languishing on the market is more because of the economic downturn and the initial skepticism of Oklahomans as a group towards downtown living. 20% downpayment is a difficult amount to accumulate for a lot of people. The fact that sales seem to be picking up is probably due primarily to change in attitude, rather than any change in lending practices.

Interestingly, the 2011 full report does not seem to be attached to today's Council Agenda, only a notation that there is a "file to be submitted." If anyone should find a link to the full report, please feel free to post it -- thanks.

991

Thanks for the pdf, U.P. -- however, this looks perhaps like a report summary rather than the full report.

Thanks for the pdf, U.P. -- however, this looks perhaps like a report summary rather than the full report.

This part is a little more detailed.

http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/cache/2/msz0te45esiis555evuedoru/134285809272011114452310.PDF

Real Estate development is always a lagging industry, as developers and lenders trend towards what has recently happened in the market (strong recent demand for downtown rental units, for example) instead of what the market will be once their project comes on-line and the years immediately afterward.

You have all these people that make their livings by building and lending and they all tend to pile into the same segment at the same time and when the new projects are finished, that segment is over built and something else is trending.

We already had that happen with downtown for sale units, which is why it is taking years for many of them to sell. I think we may see this happen with downtown apartments as well if we aren't careful.

This.

Well the housing study was supposed to be presented at council today, but it got bumped to the next meeting because they ran out of time.

Well the housing study was supposed to be presented at council today, but it got bumped to the next meeting because they ran out of time.

They gave the same presentation at the Economic Development Trust meeting on Monday. You can watch the video online and look at all the documents.

http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=1514&doctype=AGENDA
(http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=1514&doctype=AGENDA)

I wrote a story about the study too:
http://journalrecord.com/2011/09/26/study-demand-up-for-downtown-okc-housing-real-estate/

They gave the same presentation at the Economic Development Trust meeting on Monday. You can watch the video online and look at all the documents.

Brianna, thanks for the links. The "Housing Strategy Presentation" is interesting and written from what might be considered the city's point of view. (btw, sorry I didn't link to your article in the top post. I should have known you'd be covering this.)

Brianna, thanks for the links. The "Housing Strategy Presentation" is interesting and written from what might be considered the city's point of view. (btw, sorry I didn't link to your article in the top post. I should have known you'd be covering this.)

You're welcome!

They gave the same presentation at the Economic Development Trust meeting on Monday. You can watch the video online and look at all the documents.

http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=1514&doctype=AGENDA
(http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=1514&doctype=AGENDA)

I wrote a story about the study too:
http://journalrecord.com/2011/09/26/study-demand-up-for-downtown-okc-housing-real-estate/

It's nice that you wrote a story about the study but posting the link here does little for those who aren't Journal Record subsribers. We can't access the story.

No presentation today at city council meeting... and no mention of when they might reschedule.

I wonder if accepting a new housing study should include a review/discussion of the old one. You would think that would logically be involved, but either way, they need to go back and assess our progress since the last housing study. They might come away underwhelmed.

The problem with any study is that the facts upon which the study is based change. When the prior study was made, money for housing purchases was easy to obtain and people were paying through the roof prices for homes thinking they'd appreciate. Very few people foresaw what would happen to the housing industry. The real reason for-sale housing isn't selling very fast is not because of the price, as there are actually enough people in Oklahoma City who want to live downtown who could afford to buy the few for-sale homes that exist at 2006 loan requirements. I believe it's primarily because loans are so difficult to get and people are afraid of anything new nowadays. To buy an $800,000 house, you have to have $160,000 in cash and not a lot of people have that much saved. To buy a $200,000 house you have to come up with $40,000. Now everyone is all excited about rentals, and eventually the rental market will be overbuilt, because that's how builders do things - they develop based on past demand. So, at some point, the current study will look like it's in error too, and all the armchair quarterbacks will be sagely nodding their heads and saying they knew we should have done things differently. And then, maybe some of the nicer apartment buildings will go condo and sell well, and all the developers and builders will jump on a different bandwagon.

ULI Oklahoma is in the process of coordinating a program on the recent Downtown Housing Study. This event should take place in early November. Specifics to follow.

ULI Oklahoma & Downtown OKC present:
Downtown Oklahoma City Housing Development Strategies and Implementation Plan

Date: Tues., Nov. 8
Time: 5:00 - 6:30PM
Location: Joey's Pizzeria
Film Row
700 West Sheridan Avenue
Oklahoma City, OK 73102

Cost: Free for ULI members; $10 guests of ULI Oklahoma

The 2011 Downtown Housing Study goes beyond an update of the market demand to create a plan that is ready for implementation. The study was designed to evaluate housing market potential, identify target areas for housing development, quantify the financial gap for development, and recommend strategies to facilitate housing development downtown. The final plan, the Downtown Oklahoma City Housing Development Strategies and Implementation Plan, is designed to maximize housing development over the next five years and provides a roadmap for implementation.

Development Concepts, Inc. (DCI) is an Indianapolis, Indiana based firm that provides redevelopment, revitalization, and economic development strategies for public, private, and not-for-profit clients. DCI was selected because their experience, both as planners and real estate developers, gives them a unique real-world perspective on the viability of development and redevelopment opportunities. Past clients have reported success in implementing housing development plans created with assistance from DCI.

Ian Colgan, AICP oversees DCI's consulting services and is also an associate with DC Development Group, an Indianapolis based real estate development firm. His experience includes downtown, neighborhood, and corridor revitalization; commercial and housing development; urban redevelopment; local and regional economic development; and land use and transportation planning. Ian specializes in addressing the relationship of local market and economic conditions and their impacts on land use, development and transportation patterns. In addition to being a certified planner, Ian is an experienced market and economic analyst having conducted numerous studies examining development trends in the housing, retail, retail, commercial, industrial, and hospitality markets.

Click here for more information and to register. (https://netforum.uli.org/eweb/DynamicPage.aspx?site=ULIMC&webcode=DCouncilEventInfo&Reg_evt_key=73e63f6f-fdcf-463d-9c1a-ebcf1f8fb1ac&RegPath=EventRegFees)

So more rentals is the solution to our woes? I say it comes back to what I've been saying all along--that the $200+ per square foot price is higher than this market will bear. Especially when selling used inventory. Do we think that rentals next door will make ownership more attractive? I can't say I've ever heard of that being the case. If anything that would seem to damage the value of existing homes. Someone might love their home from the standpoint that it's downtown, close to everything (except a grocer), etc., but that probably doesn't make it a really wise investment.

So more rentals is the solution to our woes? I say it comes back to what I've been saying all along--that the $200+ per square foot price is higher than this market will bear. Especially when selling used inventory. Do we think that rentals next door will make ownership more attractive? I can't say I've ever heard of that being the case. If anything that would seem to damage the value of existing homes. Someone might love their home from the standpoint that it's downtown, close to everything (except a grocer), etc., but that probably doesn't make it a really wise investment.

They say pioneers take the arrows - and in some cases they die. The reality is some of the early buyers of for-sale housing paid way too much for their homes (they can get in line with everyone else across the country that bought a home between 2005 and 2008), but that doesn't mean Oklahoma City should stop development to protect the home price of the people who paid north of $500,000 for their homes. I have a hard time believe you are the same person who speaks well of Occupy Wall Street but also wants the middle and lower class to hold off on moving to downtown to protect the property value of 40 or 50 people.

Recent purchasers at the Hill are paying $200+ for their properties even now. And I realize that pioneers take the arrows, but the extra $30,000+ a year we're saving in upkeep, utilities, taxes and insurance is allowing us to take some very nice vacations. We're almost up to $100,000 in savings already. In addition, we're living where we want to live, and I don't have to worry about calling a supervisor to fix things if/when they break, a raise in my rent, etc. Quality of life is worth something as well. If we can't sell our house for what we paid for it, that doesn't mean we'll have to pay relatively more for the next place we purchase. What people don't ever realize is that it's not such a good thing to sell your property when the market is high if you have to buy another home, especially if you're moving up. If you're buying another property where prices are comparable, then you're actually better off or no worse off selling in a worse housing market, because you'll pay less for the next house you buy.

Recent purchasers at the Hill are paying $200+ for their properties even now. And I realize that pioneers take the arrows, but the extra $30,000+ a year we're saving in upkeep, utilities, taxes and insurance is allowing us to take some very nice vacations. We're almost up to $100,000 in savings already. In addition, we're living where we want to live, and I don't have to worry about calling a supervisor to fix things if/when they break, a raise in my rent, etc. Quality of life is worth something as well. If we can't sell our house for what we paid for it, that doesn't mean we'll have to pay relatively more for the next place we purchase. What people don't ever realize is that it's not such a good thing to sell your property when the market is high if you have to buy another home, especially if you're moving up. If you're buying another property where prices are comparable, then you're actually better off or no worse off selling in a worse housing market, because you'll pay less for the next house you buy.

No doubt about it Betts, if you are going to over-pay you picked the best place to do it, because at the end of the day you still save tons of money in 'other' expenses and you have one heck of a location. Plus, as the land fills up around you with rental properties that are above average quality and price, you will have one of the few owner-occupied properties. In the long run that will work out well for you. If Midtowner wants to feel sorry for someone, fell sorry for people that live out the suburban fringe with 30 vacant homesites around them that won't make the cost of their house back in 40 years - and still have to drive 10 miles to the nearest grocery store and has HOA dues out the ying-yang becasue they have to pay for club houses, pools and parks that was supposed to be paid for by 500 homes and not the 30 there were built before the housing collapse. Those are the people who are screwed.

ULI Oklahoma & Downtown OKC present:
Downtown Oklahoma City Housing Development Strategies and Implementation Plan

Date: Tues., Nov. 8
Time: 5:00 - 6:30PM
Location: Joey's Pizzeria
Film Row
700 West Sheridan Avenue
Oklahoma City, OK 73102

Cost: Free for ULI members; $10 guests of ULI Oklahoma

The 2011 Downtown Housing Study goes beyond an update of the market demand to create a plan that is ready for implementation. The study was designed to evaluate housing market potential, identify target areas for housing development, quantify the financial gap for development, and recommend strategies to facilitate housing development downtown. The final plan, the Downtown Oklahoma City Housing Development Strategies and Implementation Plan, is designed to maximize housing development over the next five years and provides a roadmap for implementation.

Development Concepts, Inc. (DCI) is an Indianapolis, Indiana based firm that provides redevelopment, revitalization, and economic development strategies for public, private, and not-for-profit clients. DCI was selected because their experience, both as planners and real estate developers, gives them a unique real-world perspective on the viability of development and redevelopment opportunities. Past clients have reported success in implementing housing development plans created with assistance from DCI.

Ian Colgan, AICP oversees DCI's consulting services and is also an associate with DC Development Group, an Indianapolis based real estate development firm. His experience includes downtown, neighborhood, and corridor revitalization; commercial and housing development; urban redevelopment; local and regional economic development; and land use and transportation planning. Ian specializes in addressing the relationship of local market and economic conditions and their impacts on land use, development and transportation patterns. In addition to being a certified planner, Ian is an experienced market and economic analyst having conducted numerous studies examining development trends in the housing, retail, retail, commercial, industrial, and hospitality markets.

Reminder: This event is this evening...

Click here for more information and to register. (https://netforum.uli.org/eweb/DynamicPage.aspx?site=ULIMC&webcode=DCouncilEventInfo&Reg_evt_key=73e63f6f-fdcf-463d-9c1a-ebcf1f8fb1ac&RegPath=EventRegFees)

Pretty fascinating presentation before Council right now on this.

Sigh.