View Full Version : Next Boom Town



circuitboard
07-08-2011, 09:04 PM
Were #20, behind Denver.

http://www.newgeography.com/content/002322-the-next-future-boom-towns-in-the-us

Larry OKC
07-08-2011, 09:13 PM
Oh no! That means Trammel will never stop calling the Thunder the Boomers.

circuitboard
07-08-2011, 11:02 PM
oh no! That means trammel will never stop calling the thunder the boomers.

lol

dmoor82
07-08-2011, 11:04 PM
All theses other cities started there boom before the recession,wait until the economy comes back and OKC will thrive!

UnclePete
07-09-2011, 12:58 AM
Drove through Downtown yesterday mainly to drive over the Walker Avenue bridge. Downtown from SW 7th to NW 6th looks like a warzone. Just how good of an idea is replacing traffic lights with stop signs? I am glad I didn't have out-of-town guests with me to see that mess.

ljbab728
07-09-2011, 01:09 AM
Drove through Downtown yesterday mainly to drive over the Walker Avenue bridge. Downtown from SW 7th to NW 6th looks like a warzone. Just how good of an idea is replacing traffic lights with stop signs? I am glad I didn't have out-of-town guests with me to see that mess.

UnclePete, is any construction area ever pretty?

UnclePete
07-09-2011, 05:01 AM
UnclePete, is any construction area ever pretty?

No they aren't, but why try to do so many at once? I have no reason to go downtown, but it would be nice to go through downtown on occasion. Reno Avenue used to be a good way to go through, but not any more.

dcsooner
07-09-2011, 05:13 AM
All theses other cities started there boom before the recession,wait until the economy comes back and OKC will thrive!

I agree, I think OKC will move significantly up that list! The city is poised to make a large leap in growth the next 10-20 years. Very Exciting

Reno and Walker
07-09-2011, 05:39 AM
Man why is Austin #1, Yuck!!!

kevinpate
07-09-2011, 06:53 AM
Drove through Downtown yesterday mainly to drive over the Walker Avenue bridge. Downtown from SW 7th to NW 6th looks like a warzone. Just how good of an idea is replacing traffic lights with stop signs? I am glad I didn't have out-of-town guests with me to see that mess.

Short term pain for long term gain. It's a pill presently, but it would be a bigger nastier horse pill if it was stretched out to do only a street or two at a time until it was finished. It would feel like it was never going to end.

ljbab728
07-09-2011, 11:56 PM
Short term pain for long term gain. It's a pill presently, but it would be a bigger nastier horse pill if it was stretched out to do only a street or two at a time until it was finished. It would feel like it was never going to end.

Agreed. In a couple of years the pain will be gone and we'll wonder why there was ever any concern. Downtown is still navigable in any case.

Spartan
07-17-2011, 04:47 AM
A lot of these make sense. It's good company to be in, the point is that there are a LOT of boom towns and OKC is not the only one.

1 Austin, TX
2 Raleigh, NC
3 Nashville, TN
4 San Antonio, TX
5 Houston, TX
6 Washington, DC-VA-MD-WV
7 Dallas-Fort Worth, TX
8 Charlotte, NC-SC
8 Phoenix, AZ
10 Orlando, FL
11 Indianapolis, IN
12 Salt Lake City, UT
13 Columbus, OH
14 Jacksonville, FL
15 Atlanta, GA
16 Las Vegas, NV
16 Riverside, CA
18 Portland, OR-WA
19 Denver, CO
20 Oklahoma City, OK
21 Baltimore, MD
22 Louisville, KY-IN
22 Richmond, VA
24 Seattle, WA
25 Kansas City, MO-KS

Look at some of the cities we're right ahead of. I think the question is whether these Sun Belt cities will go back and recreate a REAL city or whether they will just fade away as quickly as they appeared.

My initial reactions are..San Antonio ahead of Houston?? Phoenix?? Riverside, CA?? But whatever, it's just another dumb list.

lasomeday
07-17-2011, 07:49 AM
Spartan I agree on the San Antonio over Houston. Houston is growing like crazy, but you haven't been to Cali or Phoenix lately. It is depressing. Empty stores and homeless everywhere. I think Phoenix will benefit from being close to Cali, but Cali is falling apart. I was just there and development is virtually at a standstill.

Spartan
07-17-2011, 08:17 AM
Spartan I agree on the San Antonio over Houston. Houston is growing like crazy, but you haven't been to Cali or Phoenix lately. It is depressing. Empty stores and homeless everywhere. I think Phoenix will benefit from being close to Cali, but Cali is falling apart. I was just there and development is virtually at a standstill.

Yeah, I just never go to Cali for some reason. Is that indicative of the whole state, and including urban areas like LA, SF, SD proper, or just the insane sprawl mania places like Riverside?

Ooooh now I get it, yeah I was separately questioning San Antonio over Houston, and then questioning the inclusion of Phoenix and Riverside ahead of....anyone.

bluedogok
07-17-2011, 09:13 AM
It all comes down to the criteria used, I think the rate at which San Antonio is growing (growth percentage wise to existing metro) in relation to Houston is "higher", because Houston is established and has so much more than SA that Houston's growth in comparison to its existing metro is lower. There are a lot of things going on in SA, we are doing many more speculative proposals and some have turned into actual projects in San Antonio than in Austin.

Bunty
07-17-2011, 11:14 AM
Man why is Austin #1, Yuck!!!

Because a hell of a lot of people want to go live there and work. So, make no doubt about it, Austin is the opposite of Yuck. Besides, some people who work for Dell in OKC, end up promoted to better paying jobs for Dell in Austin.

dmoor82
07-17-2011, 11:37 AM
I dont get how this list is supposed to be America's NEXT boom town but some of these cities have allready "Boomed" clear back into last decade and beyond,cities like OKC just in the past few years have started to boom and make these lists',so if OKC is just starting to "boom" then we will be much higher on lists' like these in years to come.OKC is allready #20 and just getting started!

Spartan
07-17-2011, 01:49 PM
I dont get how this list is supposed to be America's NEXT boom town but some of these cities have allready "Boomed" clear back into last decade and beyond,cities like OKC just in the past few years have started to boom and make these lists',so if OKC is just starting to "boom" then we will be much higher on lists' like these in years to come.OKC is allready #20 and just getting started!

It's harder, perhaps even impossible, to make a more genuine list like that, however. But much more fun! Feel free to make predictions, other than just OKC..

Bluedog, that makes sense, and I'm aware that SA has a lot of construction of course. The canal extension seemed interesting, although it didn't seem like so much a catalyst for development as I've seen in other cities that might qualify as upcoming boom towns. I always get the sense that SA is kinda stuck in the 90s and early 00s, at least in terms of trends.

dmoor82
07-17-2011, 01:59 PM
OKC,Richmond, Lousiville all have about the same Metro population and I think OKC has the lowest GDP on this list,I would like to see where OKC would be ranked among'st peer cities and not lumped together with the likes of DC,Dallas,ATL,Houston,PHX!

dmoor82
07-17-2011, 02:05 PM
Forbes had OKC as the 5th fastest growing Metro and this list has OKC #20 on America's next boom town,so which is more accurate?I think it differs from source to source so I wouldnt read to much into rankings,though nice to be on!

adaniel
07-17-2011, 02:45 PM
I know I shouldn't complain when OKC is on a "good list" but some of the cities on this list are a little suspect.

I know the conventional wisdom that Atlanta is booming i,e. "Hotlana". But from everything I've heard from family out there--I have quite a few relatives in Gwinnett and Cobb Counties on the northern outskirts of town--the ATL is really hurting these days. Lots of foreclosures, "ghost subdivisions", and a troubling number of bank failures. There's also been a lot of structual shifts in the economy (closure of two very large military bases, loss of tech industry to NC). Yet there are still a ton of people moving there from NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. I guess being warm and unemployed is better than being cold with a job??

Don't discount San Antonio. With the decline of FL as a popular retirement destination, I can totally see San Antonio rising up to takes its place with the hill country nearby and the great health care facitilies in SA. In a lot of ways its becoming a cheaper alternative to Austin.

Spartan
07-17-2011, 02:58 PM
Atlanta is interesting because of the recent surge in growth inside of its tiny corporal limits.

Architect2010
07-17-2011, 04:35 PM
Yet there are still a ton of people moving there from NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. I guess being warm and unemployed is better than being cold with a job??

I've heard a lot of these transplants, from those northern cities in particular, are of African American heritage; a majority of them being posterity of the large demographic shift of the Great Migration[s]. Now that racial tension is more drama from the past than it is a current issue, a large number of blacks are moving from the northern cities and BACK to Southern USA. Or their "homeland" as the article put it. Lol. In fact, the percentage of blacks living in Southern USA is at 57%, the highest it's been since 1960. Atlanta being the African American magnet it is, naturally captures a certain percentage of those transplants.

lasomeday
07-17-2011, 04:58 PM
Good point Arc,

Houston and Dallas are also drawing a lot from that percent of the population. One of my friends shot a music video in Houston and she said that most of them moved there from other places.

I don't think the draw is as big as Hotlanta, but it is happening in Texas too.

Architect2010
07-17-2011, 05:03 PM
Agreed, Atlanta is definitely not the only drawing piece. Those Texan cities are definitely on the top lists of transplants from anywhere in the US, not only blacks.

bluedogok
07-17-2011, 05:27 PM
Bluedog, that makes sense, and I'm aware that SA has a lot of construction of course. The canal extension seemed interesting, although it didn't seem like so much a catalyst for development as I've seen in other cities that might qualify as upcoming boom towns. I always get the sense that SA is kinda stuck in the 90s and early 00s, at least in terms of trends.
There is no doubt "design wise" that San Antonio isn't Austin, DFW or Houston and they are still much more conservative, I think a bunch of that is because the military roots of what grew San Antonio to begin with. We are redoing a vacant multi-story building in Downtown San Antonio and have had to "tone it down" in the lobby from what we would have liked to do, which would have been fine here.


Don't discount San Antonio. With the decline of FL as a popular retirement destination, I can totally see San Antonio rising up to takes its place with the hill country nearby and the great health care facitilies in SA. In a lot of ways its becoming a cheaper alternative to Austin.
It already is with military retirees because of all the facilities there for them.


Houston and Dallas are also drawing a lot from that percent of the population. One of my friends shot a music video in Houston and she said that most of them moved there from other places.
Houston and Dallas have always been tht way, the majority of the people that lived in my apartments in 91-93 were from a radius from Chicago to DC to the Northeast. There were a few from smaller Texas towns, Oklahoma, Arkansas or Louisiana but the overall majority were from Chicago, NYC, Pittsburgh, Detroit, etc.

ZYX2
07-17-2011, 09:53 PM
Spartan I agree on the San Antonio over Houston. Houston is growing like crazy, but you haven't been to Cali or Phoenix lately. It is depressing. Empty stores and homeless everywhere. I think Phoenix will benefit from being close to Cali, but Cali is falling apart. I was just there and development is virtually at a standstill.

Last time I was in San Diego (two years ago) there were several condo towers going up downtown, the downtown was busy, and development was certainly not at a standstill, but, that was two years ago and things might have changed.

Regarding OKC being a "boom town," I don't necessarily disagree, but there always seems to be a bust soon thereafter, just look back a little ways in history, or at other cities, to know this is true. I would much rather see steady growth of about 10-15% every decade than a "boom" of sorts.

ljbab728
07-17-2011, 11:08 PM
Yeah, I just never go to Cali for some reason. Is that indicative of the whole state, and including urban areas like LA, SF, SD proper, or just the insane sprawl mania places like Riverside?

Ooooh now I get it, yeah I was separately questioning San Antonio over Houston, and then questioning the inclusion of Phoenix and Riverside ahead of....anyone.

I go to California at least once or twice a year to visit my brother in LA. I love visiting there and there are countless great attractions. I just wouldn't want to live there.

BG918
07-17-2011, 11:24 PM
Salt Lake City is one of the most booming cities in the country right now. I was there recently and was astounded by all the development. Lots of new jobs are being created there and it's a beautiful city next to snow-capped mountains.

Like Austin it is also home to the state govt and a large public research university. Those are also benefits that OKC has with Norman in the metro.

Spartan
07-18-2011, 12:59 AM
Agreed, Atlanta is definitely not the only drawing piece. Those Texan cities are definitely on the top lists of transplants from anywhere in the US, not only blacks.

Apparently in the last 10 years, 45% of the jobs created in the U.S. were created in Texas. Rick Perry would like people to believe over half.

dcsooner
07-18-2011, 05:18 AM
I've heard a lot of these transplants, from those northern cities in particular, are of African American heritage; a majority of them being posterity of the large demographic shift of the Great Migration[s]. Now that racial tension is more drama from the past than it is a current issue, a large number of blacks are moving from the northern cities and BACK to Southern USA. Or their "homeland" as the article put it. Lol. In fact, the percentage of blacks living in Southern USA is at 57%, the highest it's been since 1960. Atlanta being the African American magnet it is, naturally captures a certain percentage of those transplants.


Why is OKC and Oklahomas African American population 'relatively" stagnant? and why do so many of that demographic (incl myself) leave for other cities? Is OKC not African American friendly?

Spartan
07-18-2011, 07:15 AM
No, it just doesn't have the big city mentality and entertainment that they might want. Lacking in those areas hasn't kept the Latino community from burgeoning however, and OKC is still one of the more diverse major U.S. cities for sure. I get what you are saying though. OKC is just kinda white bread, nothing more than that really.

G.Walker
07-18-2011, 07:38 AM
The biggest thing that is hurting OKC's growth is that Dallas is just 2 & half hours south. When major corporations, big box retailers, or residential developers look at our region, we are considered in the Dallas region. So developers always look at Dallas first, as they have the 4th largest metro in the U.S. behind the big three of New York, L.A., and Chicago. Dallas is always going to be Dallas, it is considered one of the fastest growing metros is the U.S., we just won't be able to compete. Therefore, OKC just has to grow from within, as they have been for the last few decades, and not rely out out of state developers or corporations.

G.Walker
07-18-2011, 07:45 AM
Salt Lake City is one of the most booming cities in the country right now. I was there recently and was astounded by all the development. Lots of new jobs are being created there and it's a beautiful city next to snow-capped mountains.

Like Austin it is also home to the state govt and a large public research university. Those are also benefits that OKC has with Norman in the metro.

Salt Lake City's growth was very stagnant in the 80's and 90's, they just recently started to boom in the 2000's. Hosting the 2002 Winter Olympics really pushed economic development is Salt Lake City, and really put it in the national spotlight, after that, developers and retailers came out of the woodwork.

I was actually born and raised in Utah, and I can assure you that most of Salt Lake City's metro growth is contributed from residents migrating from California, seeking a slower pace and fresh start.

RadicalModerate
07-18-2011, 08:06 AM
Just a quick question:
Does the phrase "Boom Town" actually have positive connotations?

As the previous poster noted:
I was actually born and raised in Utah, and I can assure you that most of Salt Lake City's metro growth is contributed from residents migrating from California, seeking a slower pace and fresh start.

Is the grand, long-term vision for Oklahoma City to be Denver without the mountains or Los Angeles without the ocean?

There used to be a "joke"--back in Colorado--about OKC (and Oklahoma) being "ten years behind" in everything. Being "ten years behind" some of the already sprawled-out, nearly unlivable cities mentioned, as examples for emmulation or envy, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

(I'll step back and wait for the beating now....)

G.Walker
07-18-2011, 08:20 AM
Just a quick question:
Does the phrase "Boom Town" actually have positive connotations?

As the previous poster noted:
I was actually born and raised in Utah, and I can assure you that most of Salt Lake City's metro growth is contributed from residents migrating from California, seeking a slower pace and fresh start.

Is the grand, long-term vision for Oklahoma City to be Denver without the mountains or Los Angeles without the ocean?

There used to be a "joke"--back in Colorado--about OKC (and Oklahoma) being "ten years behind" in everything. Being "ten years behind" some of the already sprawled-out, nearly unlivable cities mentioned, as examples for emmulation or envy, isn't necessarily a bad thing.

(I'll step back and wait for the beating now....)

Oklahoma City is slow, they are behind 10-20 years in development from major cities like Denver, L.A. However, I have a theory, history repeats itself. In the 20's, 30's, 40's downtown areas were the life of the city, then after WWII you had the suburban sprawl, and the automobile industry take flight. Now due to high gas prices, and this "go green" initiatives, and LEED certified construction, people now are wanting to live, work, and play in downtown, as they did in the 20's and 30's. My theory is what I like to call desurbanization. Where Oklahoma City comes in is that their downtown cores are not overdeveloped like LA, Denver, Houston, Dallas, etc...so basically OKC has prime land area in downtown core to develop and expand, has other major cities don't.

G.Walker
07-18-2011, 08:29 AM
Moreover, if you look at development is major cities, like L.A., Dallas, Denver etc....most of their recent high-rise development is residential condominium or hotels. L.A. hasn't seen a major corporation skyscraper built in the downtown core in over 20 years. Dallas is just now building a major skyscraper in their downtown core in over 25 years, and its a residential condo, Museum Tower. Dallas most recent major development is just north of downtown, in Uptown in what is called Victory Park, where the majority of development is residential high rises. Austin is another great example, a majority of their development is residential condominium high-rises.

dcsooner
07-18-2011, 08:48 AM
No, it just doesn't have the big city mentality and entertainment that they might want. Lacking in those areas hasn't kept the Latino community from burgeoning however, and OKC is still one of the more diverse major U.S. cities for sure. I get what you are saying though. OKC is just kinda white bread, nothing more than that really.

Spartan,
Agree with you as well. OKC needs to develop a more diverse cultural identity that has entertainment and employment options for people of color. Unitl that happens many African Americans who obtain the education and have the drive to improve the community will not stay long enough to do so.

G.Walker
07-18-2011, 09:04 AM
Spartan,
Agree with you as well. OKC needs to develop a more diverse cultural identity that has entertainment and employment options for people of color. Unitl that happens many African Americans who obtain the education and have the drive to improve the community will not stay long enough to do so.

I am an African American male who went to OU for my undergrad and graduate degree, and this is what I observed. The majority of blacks who went to OU when I started in 99' were from Texas, moreover, they were recruited from what is now defunct MEP or Minority Engineering Program, as it was cheaper, for them to go to school at OU, then it was for them to go to school at UT, Baylor, Rice, etc...But this is what happened, all of them graduated and went back to Dallas, Houston to live and work, the OKC metro didn't retain their educated black population. Even black friends of mine from Oklahoma, who graduated from OU, moved to Dallas for work, as their was no adequate white collar jobs in the OKC metro. You would be astonished to know how many blacks from Texas who graduated from OU, had jobs waiting for them in Houston, Irving, working for Exxon Mobil, making $50,000 to $60,000 which was pretty good back in 03'.

RadicalModerate
07-18-2011, 09:05 AM
Thanks for the well-reasoned response, G. Walker.
Especially for: "My theory is what I like to call desurbanization."


"OKC needs to develop a more diverse cultural identity that has entertainment and employment options for people of color. Unitl that happens many African Americans who obtain the education and have the drive to improve the community will not stay long enough to do so."

Wouldn't the development of that cultural identity--along with entertainment/employment opportunities--be enough of a good reason for qualified individuals (education/drive) to stay around? Or is someone else (e.g. a "person of color, somewhat lighter") supposed to do it for them. Then sell it to them at inflated prices? (As in the old, so-called, "nobless oblige" system of the past . . ?) I can't imagine a better opportunity for qualified "people of color" . . .

[Crossed Posts, Mr. Walker]

dcsooner
07-18-2011, 09:08 AM
I am an African American male who went to OU for my undergrad and graduate degree, and this is what I observed. The majority of blacks who went to OU when I started in 99' were from Texas, moreover, they were recruited from what is now defunct MEP or Minority Engineering Program, as it was cheaper, for them to go to school at OU, then it was for them to go to school at UT, Baylor, Rice, etc...But this is what happened, all of them graduated and went back to Dallas, Houston to live and work, the OKC metro didn't retain their educated black population. Even black friends of mine from Oklahoma, who graduated from OU, moved to Dallas for work, as their was no adequate white collar jobs.

GWalker,
OU grad as well. I have no less than 5 friends (African American) who I grew up with in Lawton now living in DC metro area. All college graduates

G.Walker
07-18-2011, 09:28 AM
OU recruited most of their black population back in 99' from the Minority Engineering Program, which offered scholarships to people of color majoring in anything in engineering. Most of black students from Dallas and Houston majored in Petroleum or Chemical Engineering. So they used Oklahoma to get a cheap education, and took their educated minds back to Dallas and Houston to work for major energy companies. But things are looking up here, back then Devon, Sandridge, Chesapeake, Continental Resources weren't major energy companies in 2000, now they are, however OU no longer offers that Minority Engineering Program, go figure. When OU got rid of that program in 04-05, the black population at OU dropped dramatically.

bluedogok
07-18-2011, 07:54 PM
There was a series of articles in the Austin paper about six months ago about the African-American population in Austin and how relatively small it is in comparison to the other larger cities in Texas. Most of those interviewed went to school at UT but headed off to Dallas, Houston or Atlanta upon graduation. It isn't just an issue in OKC or at OU, most of the "medium sized" cities face the same issues.

BG918
07-18-2011, 08:33 PM
OKC and Tulsa both still have sizable African American populations. OKC is at 14% and Tulsa is at 16%. The problem is that neither are attracting large numbers of young and educated blacks, unlike the larger cities in the South.

Bunty
07-19-2011, 01:04 PM
Salt Lake City is one of the most booming cities in the country right now. I was there recently and was astounded by all the development. Lots of new jobs are being created there and it's a beautiful city next to snow-capped mountains.

Like Austin it is also home to the state govt and a large public research university. Those are also benefits that OKC has with Norman in the metro.And Stillwater with OSU is just a twice as far drive away.