Check out the Mesonet data for Oklahoma County and tell me why OKC would issue a burn ban.

http://www.mesonet.org/index.php/weather/map/2-inch_fractional_water_index/soil_moisture

OMG, with this wind we've been having? Need you even ask? Not only has rain been way down, (especially depending where you live in the area - that could be block to block), the wind dries things out almost immediately if we get a drop. And the heat is evaporating what remains near the surface even on a relatively still day (not that we've seen one, recently). I have rarely seen it this dry and brittle this early in the season and I'm old. In far SW OKC, we've managed to skip even smidgens of rain that have danced around us. With this dryness and wind, it is a haystack waiting to go up. And a fire started half a mile away is liable to run through here like a freight train. Actual precipitation is just part of the equation.

Interesting stats:

http://climate.ok.gov/index.php/drought/last_30_days/drought_wildfire

Penny, did you even look at the soil moisture link from Mesonet? If the wind is drying up the moisture as you claim, that is not reflected in the Mesonet data. You dont issue a City-Wide burn ban because 20 square miles of 650 is a little dry.

Penny, did you even look at the soil moisture link from Mesonet? If the wind is drying up the moisture as you claim, that is not reflected in the Mesonet data. You dont issue a City-Wide burn ban because 20 square miles of 650 is a little dry.

I sure did read it, and apparently they do issue bans. I sat and looked at it for several minutes, going back and forth between other sites to see how it stacked up. Did you even read my post? I didn't refute the moisture totals - just pointed out that there is more to it than that. Moreover, that was soil moisture taken at 2 inches below the sod. Fire is going to blow right on top where the evaporation and wind will hit it.

Are you a fireman? I'm not so maybe I shouldn't speak up. Any firemen out there with insight into this? Educate us because this is interesting.

Maybe because of the holiday coming up? It could be hot and dry enough for something to get started, especially if the wind is up.

With every dumb idiot blowing off fireworks this weekend its probably a good move. Check those soil stats in about 48 hours and they'll be back to the rest of the state. Plus, the vegetation will be dry within hours even after the rain.

Last I checked, soil doesn't generally burn... just the water-starved vegetation on top. A little rain doesn't help vegetation just pop back up fully hydrated and unable to burn.

I bet there's greater risk of fire from people tossing cigarettes out their car windows. I mean, who actually builds a fire out in the open? Only the folks who have to burn their trash I think, and they should know how to do it safely.

Last time I checked fires don't burn the soil... they burn the dry foliage.

Why would you have a problem with a burn ban?

Check out the Mesonet data for Oklahoma County and tell me why OKC would issue a burn ban.

http://www.mesonet.org/index.php/weather/map/2-inch_fractional_water_index/soil_moisture

I would recommend looking at the information at OK-FIRE instead: http://okfire.mesonet.org/public/?cat=fire

Why would you have a problem with a burn ban?

I have a problem with the logic of them issuing a city-wide burn ban the same morning it was raining city-wide. I want them to explain the details of their decision and not simply get a response of becuase we said so.

The genuine risk of any fires breaking out this weekend will be from cigarettes and fireworks, not from somebody burning a bushpile. Lets focus on the legitimate sources of fires and not simply a feel good emotion from issuing a burn ban.

Considering a controlled burn got out of control yesterday just north of OKC, I don't think it's just a knee-jerk, feel-good, based-on-faulty-reasoning decision.

Considering a controlled burn got out of control yesterday just north of OKC, I don't think it's just a knee-jerk, feel-good, based-on-faulty-reasoning decision.

Was that fire inside the limits of OKC? I'm specifically addressing the OKC Burn Ban, not any fire that occurs statewide. There are areas in the state that a burn ban is legitimate.

As someone who lives in a semi-rural part of OKC, I recognize the occasional need to burn brush to get rid of debris. But, as someone who has to fight these fires, I have to agree with the current burn ban. The little bit of rain we've had makes very little difference when coupled with 20-25 mph winds and 100 degree temps. These conditions will dry the vegetation out very quickly even with the rain.
As far as burning in the OKC limits, we haven't had more than a couple of burn days in a long time. The wind has consistently been above the 15 mph threshold for more days than I can remember. Also, how many of you know you need a burn permit in the city limits to burn brush? Just curious because we meet people all the time who had no clue.

Did you look at when that mesonet reading was taken? Wednesday morning after having a bit of rain two mornings this week. So, the soil moisture is up, but the plant material above ground is dry with this heat and wind. I'd say it was very prudent to issue a burn ban at this time.

I have a problem with the logic of them issuing a city-wide burn ban the same morning it was raining city-wide. I want them to explain the details of their decision and not simply get a response of becuase we said so.

The genuine risk of any fires breaking out this weekend will be from cigarettes and fireworks, not from somebody burning a bushpile. Lets focus on the legitimate sources of fires and not simply a feel good emotion from issuing a burn ban.

I don't think it's legal to burn a "bushpile" in the OKC city limits anyway.

I don't think it's legal to burn a "bushpile" in the OKC city limits anyway.

actually it is (in a way), but you have to apply for a burn permit with the State Fire Marshal

I have a problem with the logic of them issuing a city-wide burn ban the same morning it was raining city-wide. I want them to explain the details of their decision and not simply get a response of becuase we said so. ...

That was a small amount of rain in a series of over 100 degree weather, it did not really saturate the soil to a meaningful extent. With more hot days ahead before the 4th it could be proactive to get the word out about a burn ban being in effect, so the people who will follow it will not be upset about wasting their money on fireworks they can not use.

actually it is (in a way), but you have to apply for a burn permit with the State Fire Marshal

Oh, OK. Thanks. I would think the provisions of a burn permit would be pretty strict. I have a Texas Fire Alarm Planning Superintendent's license as well as a NICET Level IV in FA Systems so I'm curious as to what they would be...anyone?

Was that fire inside the limits of OKC? I'm specifically addressing the OKC Burn Ban, not any fire that occurs statewide. There are areas in the state that a burn ban is legitimate.

Keep in mind that much land within the OKC city limits is rural with much timber and brush. They aren't going to designate burn bans just in certain areas of the city limits.

This better not affect Bricktown on the 4th or there will be hell to pay. >_<

Mustang says no fireworks for citizens to shoot off in their park this weekend. BOOOOOOOOOOOO! I know, I know...but I was looking forward to this cause I've never experienced it. It's my girlfriend's favorite holiday and I had to notify her of the decision while she's driving back from the east coast...

One of my neighbors thinks it's a God-given right to shoot off fireworks on the 4th and New Year's Eve. Kinda odd since my neighbor is a she and also claims to have enuf to shoof off lasting 2 hours. I told her about the ban but she said it's dumb since we've had rain. My poor dog will be hiding in the closet praying, "please great Canine in the Sky, make it stop!"

I'm giving your neighbor props. Good for her! Just hope she doesn't get ticketed.

I'm giving your neighbor props. Good for her! Just hope she doesn't get ticketed.

The ban for Cleveland county will be roundly ignored by me, I'm heading up to the fireworks store on Sooner to stock up. Burn bans on Independence Day? Really?

Stupid law, tailor made for ignoring.

Overheard a cop saying he was shooting off fire works this weekend

Just be careful when shooting fireworks. Be prepared. Ultimately, get out there and SCREW THE BURN BAN! lol

As dry as the vegatation is and the severe drought in most of Oklahoma, you would have to be an idiot to even consider using fireworks at this time. Please, use a little common sense and forgo the fireworks.

As dry as the vegatation is and the severe drought in most of Oklahoma, you would have to be an idiot to even consider using fireworks at this time. Please, use a little common sense and forgo the fireworks.

I do see your point, but it's not Independence Day without fireworks. Take those out and it's just another summer cookout. There are always risks associated with everything worth doing. And those city sponsored events are just not the same as hands-on blowing stuff up.

Sometimes you just have to ignore that still small voice in your head that says "this *probably* isn't a good idea."

I do see your point, but it's not Independence Day without fireworks. Take those out and it's just another summer cookout. There are always risks associated with everything worth doing. And those city sponsored events are just not the same as hands-on blowing stuff up.

Sometimes you just have to ignore that still small voice in your head that says "this *probably* isn't a good idea."

Well, city sponsored might be one thing. I for one wouldn't consider risking my neighbor's property and safety to entertain myself and I don't care what holiday it is. I expect the neighbors will be shooting off fireworks and terrifying the dogs the way they always do but we don't generally let it get under our skin. But it is has been sooo dry. They set fire to the property and burn the place down and I am going to be furious. We'll have the hoses hooked up, just in case.

Well, city sponsored might be one thing. I for one wouldn't consider risking my neighbor's property and safety to entertain myself and I don't care what holiday it is. I expect the neighbors will be shooting off fireworks and terrifying the dogs the way they always do but we don't generally let it get under our skin. But it is has been sooo dry. They set fire to the property and burn the place down and I am going to be furious. We'll have the hoses hooked up, just in case.

Good idea, PQ. As you know, I lived in Mustang for many years. One year we were setting off fireworks with my kids in my back yard. There was a vacant lot next door and the grass in that lot caught on fire. Luckily I had a hose ready and got it put out before anything got out of control.

The headline on the Oklahoman yesterday indicated that Fireworks Seller's sales were "fizzling" and they--these merchants of possible injury, property damage and FUN!--were apparently hurting due to the burn ban, due to the dry weather.

So . . .
Can we expect the Obama Administration to come to their rescue?
Maybe by Semi-Nationalizing Local Fireworks Retailing?
After handing out some nice, low interest, loans?

The headline on the Oklahoman yesterday indicated that Fireworks Seller's sales were "fizzling" and they--these merchants of possible injury, property damage and FUN!--were apparently hurting due to the burn ban, due to the dry weather.

So . . .
Can we expect the Obama Administration to come to their rescue?
Maybe by Semi-Nationalizing Local Fireworks Retailing?
After handing out some nice, low interest, loans?


Please leave your political comments for the politics section.

The headline on the Oklahoman yesterday indicated that Fireworks Seller's sales were "fizzling" and they--these merchants of possible injury, property damage and FUN!--were apparently hurting due to the burn ban, due to the dry weather.

So . . .
Can we expect the Obama Administration to come to their rescue?
Maybe by Semi-Nationalizing Local Fireworks Retailing?
After handing out some nice, low interest, loans?

Maybe if they'd just lower the prices and not put "profits first"....then they'll be making awesome sales.

Maybe if they'd just lower the prices and not put "profits first"....then they'll be making awesome sales.

Are you serious, poor advice coming from a new business owner.
The whole idea behind opening/owning a business is to turn a profit.

What would really get the fireworks stands back in business is for all these "nervous Nellie" laws banning fireworks to be taken off the books. Stuff burns down. It happens. My ex burned the kitchen down when she forgot to turn a burner off to take the dog outside, but you don't see bans on indoor french fry cooking or owning dogs.

Can't get good bottle rockets anymore, due to the nervous Nellies...and every damned municipality has the same theme on their webpage: "leave the fireworks to the professionals."

Screw that. Oklahoma is hot and dry in July, you say?? OMG, who'd a thunk it? It almost *never* gets that way, whatever shall we do?

I've apparently flouted the law for four years...had no idea fireworks were illegal in Norman, and wouldn't have cared if I had known, and I have shot off entire artillery barrages of them from my backyard within full view of the major thoroughfare. Never even been challenged on it, and I use the big aerial bombs too, so I'm sure it's been noticed, as well as smaller stuff in the front yard and street.

I always clean up the debris and have never had a single incident get out of hand. Hell's bells, there's a neighborhood up on north Flood where it looks like they're re-enacting Gettysburg every year, and from what I can tell, there's not a pro in the bunch (as evidenced by the number of people lighting fireworks *and* carrying beer bottles, etc.)

To each their own, enjoy those big displays from afar, I'll be having a much more hands-on celebration, illegally or not.

There shall be wanton, shameless public displays of fireworks, *and* cooking burgers, dogs, and brisket over open flames. Come get me, I *dare* ya, lol.

Happy Independence Day to you all and happy birthday, USA.

Don't know why anyone is shocked/surprised about a burn ban. The Oklahoman had a map in the past couple of days showing Oklahoma county as being one of the severe drought counties (or whichever one it was).

The following notice was put on every apt in my complex:


NO FIREWORKS!!!!!!

Due to the severe drought...There is a $1,000 fine from the City if you are caught...Any and all fireworks will be considered an enimant threat of harm...if caught...will be served a 48 hr notice to vacate. There will be zero tolerance...

For the property owners of the COUNTLESS acres of property and dozens of homes that have been lost in fires I have fought that were started by people like this during burn bans, please forgive him. Let's hope that one day his life isn't shattered by a neighbor's carelessness.

Of course it is hot in July. But is not only unusually hot, it has been extremely dry. You haven't had anything get out of hand and that is fortunate. Are you suggesting that the fire danger is exactly the same as it always has been so therefore the outcome will be the same. Really?

If anyone so much as dares to start any kind of fire near my place and I see it, I will be more than happy than to take it all the way to court.

Go for it, Sid. I can't imagine someone just saying I'm going to do whatever I want no matter what the law says.

Oh, OK. Thanks. I would think the provisions of a burn permit would be pretty strict. I have a Texas Fire Alarm Planning Superintendent's license as well as a NICET Level IV in FA Systems so I'm curious as to what they would be...anyone?
I'll try to answer, but first to clear up some bad info. Burn Permits are issued by the municipality in which you reside, not the State Fire Marshall. For OKC the permits are issued to homeowners by the FF's at the station whose district they live in. There is a standard set of requirements that have to be met no matter where in the city limits you live. These are set by the OCFD Fire Marshall. Some or the ones that preclude people from qualifying are; the burn pile has to be vegetative material only(no trash or sawn lumber), it has to be at least 150' from any structure on your property and 500' from any structures on neighboring property, you have to have either earth moving equipment or a water hose on hand to contain it, it has to be out by dark(piles small enough to burn in one day), and finally, you have to call every morning to the FM office to see if it's a burn day(forecast to have winds below 15 mph all day). Those are the most common requirements that keep people from qualifying but not all of them. The permits are good for 30 days and are free for the asking as long as you qualify. Hope that answers what you were asking.

I'll try to answer, but first to clear up some bad info. Burn Permits are issued by the municipality in which you reside, not the State Fire Marshall. For OKC the permits are issued to homeowners by the FF's at the station whose district they live in. There is a standard set of requirements that have to be met no matter where in the city limits you live. These are set by the OCFD Fire Marshall. Some or the ones that preclude people from qualifying are; the burn pile has to be vegetative material only(no trash or sawn lumber), it has to be at least 150' from any structure on your property and 500' from any structures on neighboring property, you have to have either earth moving equipment or a water hose on hand to contain it, it has to be out by dark(piles small enough to burn in one day), and finally, you have to call every morning to the FM office to see if it's a burn day(forecast to have winds below 15 mph all day). Those are the most common requirements that keep people from qualifying but not all of them. The permits are good for 30 days and are free for the asking as long as you qualify. Hope that answers what you were asking.

Thanks for the correction Wambo, not sure why i thought is was through the State Fire Marshal.

Does anyone have an official definition for the "Burn Ban"?

People can argue that they're not burning anything.... They're just simply popping fireworks.

What would really get the fireworks stands back in business is for all these "nervous Nellie" laws banning fireworks to be taken off the books. Stuff burns down. It happens. My ex burned the kitchen down when she forgot to turn a burner off to take the dog outside, but you don't see bans on indoor french fry cooking or owning dogs.

Its hard to ban "stupid."

The rest of your comments put you in the same category as the punks in our neighborhood who fire off fireworks at all hours of the night with no regard to their neighbors, the pets or their property. My neighbors and myself give no pause when we call police and even sigh the ticket against the turds if need be.

I'll try to answer, but first to clear up some bad info. Burn Permits are issued by the municipality in which you reside, not the State Fire Marshall. For OKC the permits are issued to homeowners by the FF's at the station whose district they live in. There is a standard set of requirements that have to be met no matter where in the city limits you live. These are set by the OCFD Fire Marshall. Some or the ones that preclude people from qualifying are; the burn pile has to be vegetative material only(no trash or sawn lumber), it has to be at least 150' from any structure on your property and 500' from any structures on neighboring property, you have to have either earth moving equipment or a water hose on hand to contain it, it has to be out by dark(piles small enough to burn in one day), and finally, you have to call every morning to the FM office to see if it's a burn day(forecast to have winds below 15 mph all day). Those are the most common requirements that keep people from qualifying but not all of them. The permits are good for 30 days and are free for the asking as long as you qualify. Hope that answers what you were asking.

Yes, thank you very much.

... myself give no pause when we call police and even sigh the ticket against the turds if need be.

Since you make your bread and butter by being the metro's (repeated, ad nauseam) answer to a question no one is asking, I'm sure no one is surprised at that revelation.

You'd have probably called in that pesky Paul Revere and William Dawes for making too much noise, then turned your video over to the British...there are laws, after all. (Not equating discharging fireworks in defiance of a burn ban with a true act of patriotism, of course, just making fun of your exaggerated pious self-righteousness.)

I'm crushed.

I love it - You thumb your nose at a law put in place to protect life and property and I'm the self-righteous one because I have no problem standing up to your turd antics.

Since no one can provide the details of a Burn Ban, it is safe to conclude that a Burn Ban was never designed and intended for prevention of fireworks. It was simply to stop the burning of trash, etc. So... Go on, everyone, go pop them fireworks!!!

Kinda off topic here but what year were fireworks banned in the metro area? I remember popping them in Edmond as a kid in the later 70s.

Thunder, the burn bans are a county thing. You would have to contact them for details. If you live in a city, contact the local FD about fireworks. It has never been legal to set off fireworks in OKC, at least not in the time I have worked for the OCFD (over 20 years). That hasn't stopped people from doing it but, this year with the conditions we have, enforcement will likely be stepped up and that $1000 fine might get your attention. That being said, some cities have already said the ban doesn't include fireworks. I'd check first just to be sure.

Thanks for the correction Wambo, not sure why i thought is was through the State Fire Marshal.
No problem. The State FM does have to issue burn permits in some instances in unincorporated ares, I just don't know all the parameters involved. As far as OCFD, at a station level we can only issue to home or land owners and not developers. Those have to go through the OCFD FM and there is a fee for them.

Kinda off topic here but what year were fireworks banned in the metro area? I remember popping them in Edmond as a kid in the later 70s.
It's all up to the municipality. I remember shooting bottle rockets out of pipes at each other in the early 70's before they were banned due to setting too many roofs on fire. Pretty stupid, looking back.
My brother lives in Choctaw and they have never banned them. We lived in MWC and I don't recall when they banned them. They might have been illegal when I was growing up but we didn't know it.

Does anyone have an official definition for the "Burn Ban"?

People can argue that they're not burning anything.... They're just simply popping fireworks.

Maybe this will help, from the front page of OKC website (right at the top so its hard to miss) at http://www.okc.gov/

Fireworks prohibited in city limits
Independence Day is around the corner we want to remind you that it is illegal to buy, own and set off fireworks in the City limits without a permit. Violators can be fined up to $302, not including court fees.


So you don't have to get caught up in a definition of what is "burning". It is illegal to:
Buy
Own (presume this also means having them in your possession)
Set off (which would be in the "burn" category.

Since no one can provide the details of a Burn Ban, it is safe to conclude that a Burn Ban was never designed and intended for prevention of fireworks. It was simply to stop the burning of trash, etc. So... Go on, everyone, go pop them fireworks!!!

Fireworks are illegal, so rather they are listed specifically in the burn ban or not, they should not be used, period.

It amazes me how selfish people can be. Fireworks are illegal within city limits. The county has a burn ban. Go somewhere and watch the pros do it this year. It's not like the 4th of July doesn't happen every year. There are plenty of other fun activities you can enjoy that don't involve possibly burning down people's homes, businesses, or starting a major grassfire.

(says the person who watched two young teens set the grass across from her childhood home on fire one 3rd of July in the 80s, during a drought, and had to run out with hoses, buckets, and glasses of water with her father and sister to put out the idiots' fire before it jumped the gravel road to our yard.)

As there seems to be a clear divergence of opinions--(vis-a-vis/spec.ref.: government regulations on fireworks)--regarding The Limits of Liberty, here, on the cusp of The Celebration of Independence Day, said dirvergences pointing both up and to the actual dependence of all of US on Common Sense . . .

What say we all go down by the river--next to the new boathouse--and toss in some tea bags in celebration of "INTERdependence Day" . . . ?

The EPA may raise some lame objections but--as Kurt Vonnegut once said: "So it goes . . ."
(Plus they are way too busy making sure everyone is picking up lead paint chips and dust)

[The preceeding PSA is Non-Political, and any apologies for whatever misconstrument of intentions that may have occured during the reading of the above words are accepted, in advance. Not to mention any reminders of what responses belong on which threads . . . Thank you.]

Hardy har har!

It amazes me how selfish people can be. Fireworks are illegal within city limits. The county has a burn ban. Go somewhere and watch the pros do it this year. It's not like the 4th of July doesn't happen every year. There are plenty of other fun activities you can enjoy that don't involve possibly burning down people's homes, businesses, or starting a major grassfire.

(says the person who watched two young teens set the grass across from her childhood home on fire one 3rd of July in the 80s, during a drought, and had to run out with hoses, buckets, and glasses of water with her father and sister to put out the idiots' fire before it jumped the gravel road to our yard.)

If you've never had the experience of your home threatened by fire you probably don't "get" how awful it is. It is an experience like no other.

As there seems to be a clear divergence of opinions--(vis-a-vis/spec.ref.: government regulations on fireworks)--regarding The Limits of Liberty, here, on the cusp of The Celebration of Independence Day, said dirvergences pointing both up and to the actual dependence of all of US on Common Sense . . .

What say we all go down by the river--next to the new boathouse--and toss in some tea bags in celebration of "INTERdependence Day" . . . ?

The EPA may raise some lame objections but--as Kurt Vonnegut once said: "So it goes . . ."
(Plus they are way too busy making sure everyone is picking up lead paint chips and dust)

[The preceeding PSA is Non-Political, and any apologies for whatever misconstrument of intentions that may have occured during the reading of the above words are accepted, in advance. Not to mention any reminders of what responses belong on which threads . . . Thank you.]

I'm not big on government over regulating but I am BIG on being responsible. Even if they didn't have a burn ban anyone who is risking their neighbor's property knowing how bad conditions are is being an ass. This is so obvious that there shouldn't even have to be a ban. I'm not worried that the government will step on anyone's rights by imposing a fine since only a self centered idiot thinks he/she has the right to risk setting their neighbor's property on fire and costing the city and the rest of us a ton of grief and money. This isn't like just any other year and as grownups, we can get over our profound disappointment that our annual celebration is lacking individual fireworks. The more people behave irresponsibily, the more the government ends up imposing regulations. If everyone did the right thing, we would put a stop to much of that. I am not holding out much hope. If we could count on Darwin taking care of the problem that would be one thing, but fires, once started, are hard to contain and that often involves people Darwin generally avoids.

That being said, they just had some really lovely fireworks, next door. In fact, the whole neighborhood was shooting them off until the police and fire department went roaring down Council towards the south and things went mysteriously quiet...

Re: Post 2:
Isn't that pretty much what I just said?

Re: Post 1:
True. But having your home threatened by a tornado is pretty close.
(Not counting lightning, I guess the difference is that tornadoes aren't started by incompetent thrill-seekers with wind machines.)