... I probably would have added in this little nugget: evidence is building that there will be another "skyscraper" added to the skyline.

Ah crap - why do you do this to us?

Let the speculation begin!I Love it!

Ah crap - why do you do this to us?

Well either you want me to tell you as much as I can tell you, or not. Seriously, if I had more I could confidently share, I would!

From January 14 2012

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Skyline/2012/January/IMG_3402.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Skyline/2012/January/IMG_3403.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Skyline/2012/January/IMG_3404.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Skyline/2012/January/IMG_3406.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/Skyline/2012/January/IMG_3407.jpg

Thanks Will!

Cropped one of those photos to show 1) Dowell starting work on the improvement of their eastern facade and 2) the demolition of the old Globe Life building has begun:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/globe11412.jpg

Great summation article from Steve and with Pete's additions, it's a good look at what 2012 will bring us downtown.

Somebody said they didn't think aloft would be ready by 2012. What's the thinking there?

Will, you provide some wonderful pictures for us here on OKCTalk. For that, a big thanks!

Will's last photo is desktop-worthy.

Somebody said they didn't think aloft would be ready by 2012. What's the thinking there?

On their website, it has said for awhile opening 2013. http://www.starwoodhotels.com/alofthotels/directory/new-hotels/all/list.html?sortType=region

Mind you, I think it will be early 2013, as I've read that elsewhere.

Ah crap - why do you do this to us?


I'm thinking maybe it's the print media equivalent of Film at 11.

Keep sharing Steve. We can take it (most of us anyhows)

That was while I was headed back to the car after doing video from 7:30 with the sunrise until around Noon. Walking around with a tripod and camera and snapped that. Still don't feel comfortable around SandRidge. It was almost an afterthought to take the pictures. That was with an iPhone. I could do more with a real camera.

And if I had thought it through, I probably would have added in this little nugget: evidence is building that there will be another "skyscraper" added to the skyline.

Just to be clear, this is in addition to a possible new Sandridge building, correct?

I think it's pretty obvious that the downtown market needs a sizable chunk of Class A space and that a developer or two is going to seize this opportunity.

It shouldn't be that hard to find an anchor tenant to take about 1/3 of a new structure and then lease the rest on spec.

Even if someone is already working on plans, it would take about 2-3 years to bring space on-line. By that time you'd think they'd have a line of people wanting space given the momentum downtown and the pace at which the area's largest employers are projected to grow.

Just to be clear, this is in addition to a possible new Sandridge building, correct?

Very much. Yep. The SandRidge building, while still not clearly lined out to the public, has been officially confirmed. And this isn't the potential convention hotel either.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/Petroleum%20Building/petroleumbuilding1960-2.jpg

Very much. Yep. The SandRidge building, while still not clearly lined out to the public, has been officially confirmed. And this isn't the potential convention hotel either.

do you know when we will find out more about this new building? Maybe a hint on how big it will be????you tossed out a treat, but now I want the whole box :)

I promise, when I get this story nailed down, I'll quickly share it.

Sandridge is going to have it's hands full in 2012 with the Braniff Building and amenities complex, plus their part in re-doing Kerr Park.

I bet it will take them most the year to have any sort of handle of their future needs so I bet they don't even know the scale of a future companion tower.

Based on what I've been told, we're probably looking at 2014/2015.

Steve, you're making my weekend.

Based on what I've been told, we're probably looking at 2014/2015.

Completion or construction?

On their website, it has said for awhile opening 2013. http://www.starwoodhotels.com/alofthotels/directory/new-hotels/all/list.html?sortType=region

Mind you, I think it will be early 2013, as I've read that elsewhere.

I knew I read that somewhere. Also by looking at the site, there is still a TON of work to be done. They have hardly started.

Very much. Yep. The SandRidge building, while still not clearly lined out to the public, has been officially confirmed. And this isn't the potential convention hotel either.

Cue the dramatic music...

I hope we are able to do this without tearing anything down like the construction of the Devon Tower

ugh

I hope we are able to do this without tearing anything down like the construction of the Devon Tower

huh?Didn't they tear down one parking garage and added 5 floors to the other?I'm all in favor of tearing down a parking structure if it adds an 844'ft skyscraper!I think most of us can agree that the building of the Devon Tower has helped the surrounding area alot!

The possible new skyscraper will probably be built by Boeing, or American Fidelity

I hope we are able to do this without tearing anything down like the construction of the Devon Tower

As in they build on a current surface lot, like Devon did or maybe a grassy field like Level. My ideal place would be the grassy field across from the AT&T building. Then Deep Duce and Downtown would be nicely linked.

I'd like to see that too,but this is OKC!

huh?Didn't they tear down one parking garage and added 5 floors to the other?I'm all in favor of tearing down a parking structure if it adds an 844'ft skyscraper!I think most of us can agree that the building of the Devon Tower has helped the surrounding area alot!

I do agree, I do not think I was clear. The Devon Tower would have had a lesser impact if they would have torn down The Skirvin and put it there for example. I am simply hoping for a net gain in buildings downtown instead of tear something out and replace it.

Depends on what they might need to tear down. I've no issue with the Ford place disappearing for the CC or some other grand development for example. If someone wants to tear down something dilapidated to put up a 20+ story structure, no harm, no foul.

The amount of dilapidated buildings downtown is approaching zero.

The amount of dilapidated buildings downtown is approaching zero.

The ONLY boarded up building I'm aware of is the one owned by Avis Scaramucci - the Rock Island Plow building at Reno and Oklahoma in Bricktown (I'm fully aware I just threw out some red meat for Spartan..)

So why don't you agree with me?!?

Not counting the Nick Preftakes block of course.

The ONLY boarded up building I'm aware of is the one owned by Avis Scaramucci - the Rock Island Plow building at Reno and Oklahoma in Bricktown (I'm fully aware I just threw out some red meat for Spartan..)

Woof.

So why don't you agree with me?!?

Not counting the Nick Preftakes block of course.

Those are buildings that are anything but dilapidated. If any of those buildings are to come down... that block has the potential to be the best block in all of OKC, as long as all the existing urban character is retained.

I did not say there were dilapidated. I do think that Pizza Town or whatever it is called is in fact dilapidated. I was pointing out that if something is torn down to make way for a new building, something will be lost as well as gained. Instead of building where nothing currently stands and then we only stand to gain from the new construction.

There's a lot of space in the spectrum between dilapidated and immaculate. I hate that there's this perception that in order for a new business to be viable in an old building, you have to completely renovate it to the tune of millions of dollars (and make it look whitewashed and shiny on the inside like Joey's in Film Row, an example of a bldg with a ton of history).

Anything that is built on the site of that block, over the Stage Center, etc., is going to seem corporatized and bland by comparison. One thing that OKC doesn't yet understand is that it is possible to move backward. You can spend a kajillion dollars on something that represents a net loss from what was already there in terms of the cityscape. Progress isn't infallible, sometimes a "progression" is actually a huge "regression," just ask Robert Moses and I.M. Pei.

There are so many obvious history lessons that people never take heed.

^^Taller than Chase but shorter than Devon,right?My next door neighbor is crane operator from Texas,He was told to be on standby if He wanted the work.I hope He is correct,but We'll see!

I personally believe this, dmoor82 has been going on and on about what his neighbor told him who operates the Devon Tower crane and it actually sounds pretty credible, especially the part where he was told to stay on stand by if he wanted the work. He might of made that up but I don't see why he would waste the time to play mind games unless he's really that bored.

I personally believe this, dmoor82 has been going on and on about what his neighbor told him who operates the Devon Tower crane and it actually sounds pretty credible, especially the part where he was told to stay on stand by if he wanted the work. He might of made that up but I don't see why he would waste the time to play mind games unless he's really that bored.

It certainly is sounding very possible. I just wonder who would build it?

At this point, it doesn't have to be owner-occupied. That was the economics of a non-boom downtown. Don't blink now, but suddenly we're looking at an all around real estate crunch downtown.

It wouldn't take much of a building to be the largest speculative office building currenty in development across the country. The title now goes to 2 - 10 story buildings in Charlotte.

http://www.wcnc.com/news/neighborhood-news/Ballantyne-developer-says-boom-is-response-to-demand-137204808.html


The 10-story, 275,000-square-foot Gragg Building and its mirror building, the Woodward Building, together comprise the largest speculative office project in the nation slated for completion in 2012

I believe the new mid-rise in Tulsa (which I think is taller than 10 floors) is spec? There's an oil company involved, but I believe they just signed a lease with Eggleston?

I could be way off on that though..

The possible new skyscraper will probably be built by Boeing, or American Fidelity

Could also be MidFirst bank or just a spec tower.

I would personally expect a spec tower more than anything. Consider that Devon's former tower will be occupied by Continental (who will also be expanding), and that Oklahoma Tower will be Devon overflow in 4-5 years. That's about how long it will take for a new spec office tower, ideally replacing Oklahoma Tower (which would make the spec tower not very speculative afterall), to be completed if first announced in 2012.

I would personally expect a spec tower more than anything. Consider that Devon's former tower will be occupied by Continental (who will also be expanding), and that Oklahoma Tower will be Devon overflow in 4-5 years. That's about how long it will take for a new spec office tower, ideally replacing Oklahoma Tower (which would make the spec tower not very speculative afterall), to be completed if first announced in 2012.

Should've made the new skyscraper taller than 850...

It wouldn't take much of a building to be the largest speculative office building currenty in development across the country. The title now goes to 2 - 10 story buildings in Charlotte.

http://www.wcnc.com/news/neighborhood-news/Ballantyne-developer-says-boom-is-response-to-demand-137204808.html

Work beginning this year.

http://www.wilshiregrandredevelopment.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEJkbwHNdKI

Work beginning this year.

http://www.wilshiregrandredevelopment.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEJkbwHNdKI

They are tearing down a couple of substantional buildings to build these. Too bad they couldn't find a less developed piece of property to build on. However, they cite the locations proximity to rail transit as the reason for picking the location. It makes me wonder if OKC will need to have it's streetcar alignment nailed down before we see construction on a spec office tower.

I highly doubt it will be spec. The chamber has mentioned too many times of new jobs and companies relocating to OKC for the past few years, and it's prob just now coming to fruition. I give it a 99% chance that it will be owner occupant. I just hope it's an out of state company doing this, and not local, it will make our renaissance look that more attractive.

I believe the new mid-rise in Tulsa (which I think is taller than 10 floors) is spec? There's an oil company involved, but I believe they just signed a lease with Eggleston?

I could be way off on that though..

Yep. You are way off on that. The new building in Tulsa is not spec. Cimarex is taking most of the building. And the building would not be happening without that lease.

Ah, so it is a lease.

It wouldn't take much of a building to be the largest speculative office building currenty in development across the country. The title now goes to 2 - 10 story buildings in Charlotte.

http://www.wcnc.com/news/neighborhood-news/Ballantyne-developer-says-boom-is-response-to-demand-137204808.html

True that it would probably not take much to be the largest speculative office building. But the 10-story buildings in Charlotte do not take the title of the largest currently in development. As your quoted portion states, they are the largest speculative project slated for completion in 2012.

It is highly unlikely that any substantial new building would be built as a spec. Not many developers build with their own money and financing is not available without substantial pre-leasing.

They are tearing down a couple of substantional buildings to build these. Too bad they couldn't find a less developed piece of property to build on. However, they cite the locations proximity to rail transit as the reason for picking the location. It makes me wonder if OKC will need to have it's streetcar alignment nailed down before we see construction on a spec office tower.

Well, the gist is that right now our city leaders and especially the planning department, do not understand the importance of the streetcar. The streetcar wasn't planning's idea, so it's definitely not very high up Klaus' list, for a number of reasons. As it stands, they see a lot of development happening without it.

What they don't understand, because most of them strive to be a caretaker planning department, is the game-changing aspect of the streetcar. So it's hard to say in that retrospect, of whether it will take that to do towers on spec. What I can say is that right now we're just seeing "boom OKC," whereas streetcar will completely reinvent development patterns in OKC. Whole new city.

I am personally aware of a considerable amount of development that is just in limbo right now, mostly because of the streetcar, but also somewhat because of the convention center. I hate to think about how much Lackmeyer is personally aware of that's in limbo...

Not sure I follow on this Spartan....

Work beginning this year.

http://www.wilshiregrandredevelopment.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEJkbwHNdKI

The office tower in the Wilshire Grand redev is (a) not likely to start this year and (b) is not being built as a spec.

Not sure I follow on this Spartan....

Well in terms of large developments in limbo right now, just think of hotels for example... under normal circumstances obviously we'd see a lot more happening on that front right now (esp given the tightness of the downtown hotel market) than just the Aloft and Pitman projects.

I don't think it will be spec based upon the square footage being vacated in Chase, Corporate and Oklahoma Tower by July. My money is on Continental building a new tower. I posted this on another thread, but here is my reasoning:

My memory is that CLR is moving about 250 employees into the current Devon building (MidAmerica Tower). CLR also has plans to triple their size over the next five years (750 employees). MAT has 19 floors. I believe the top 4 floors are under a long term lease to the law firm of Crowe and Dunleavy. That would leave 15 available floors. Each floor has around 35 offices, with room for 15 cublicles in the interior. 50 employees x 15 floors = 750 employees.

So by my calculations, CLR would completely fill the entire space available in MAT in 5 years. To me, it makes sense that CLR's MAT move is more of a temporary transition than a long term move. CLR could choose to fill available space in neighboring towers as they outgrow MAT (like Devon), but that is not a good long term plan. 5 years seems like a good amount of time to pick plans and complete construction on a new tower. Just my thoughts.

I would look for CLR to build a new building in the new future if their Bakken assets are what people are projecting. I would think that a new headquarters/tower would be a perfect anchor for the new Core to Shore development, especially given the timing of the new development.

And those developments, in your mind, are just waiting on the street cars? Amusing to say the least.

Streetcars will change the pattern of development. What we don't know is if it really will bring more net investment and jobs into the METRO. But it will change where those investments will be made and therefore specific areas will prosper. No reason to believe that won't happen.

Well in terms of large developments in limbo right now, just think of hotels for example... under normal circumstances obviously we'd see a lot more happening on that front right now (esp given the tightness of the downtown hotel market) than just the Aloft and Pitman projects.

Can't really agree with this. Truth is, financing for hotels is excruciatingly difficult - still - due to the 2008 economic crash. That's why a slam dunk like the Bricktown Hilton Garden Inn is going slow, and it's why other sure things that were proposed - Holiday Inn Express and Candlewood Inn (both also proposed for Bricktown) stayed dead. It's just a brutal lending environment. There's nothing I know of being delayed due to the streetcar system, MAPS 3 or Project 180.

I bet there are people and investors on the sidelines though.... That don't have any firm plans to the public or in any of the downtown gossip circles right now because they are waiting for some more firm details to emerge regarding a ton of variables downtown right now.

Convention Center Layout.
Boulevard.
Streetcar.
Downtown Central Park.
New parking garage.

etc...

I bet some more proposals will come off the sidelines and work their way into the outlets and circles of people Steve communicates with, once some of these civic projects start to move forward and plans become more apparent.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I am looking at it.