I'm curious for some ideas or strategies on how people think South OKC should regain its retail, since that is primarily exactly where OKC is loosing sales tax collections. Some people are clinging to Crossroads or I-240 but I think that is just a BAD idea personally. There are better ideas...

What are the options you guys like best?

Along I-240 corridor
A big lifestyle center far south
Big retail area by WRWA
Redevelopment in Capitol Hill area
Something else?

74th & Penn could use a makeover.

Lifestyle center near I-44 and 134th

Are there new lifestyle centers being built anywhere?

I think the I-240 corridor is almost where you have to start out of necessity. It has the interstate access, there is established retail in the area, and trying to start too much farther east or south will (IMHO, of course) just push people to the new retail in Moore.

My personal opinion is that S. OKC leaders have really dropped the ball in letting the I-240 corridor essentially stagnate. Just one idea for me would be to plow down and rebuild/replan just about everything east of Hobby Lobby @ 74th and Penn.

Odom has had "Phase II" of the 240 Penn Park on hold ever since the economy collapsed, but I hold out hope something new may emerge there eventually. Best Buy moving into the old Circuit City location may help, but I'm not sure about it. We're obviously way past the window of opportunity for a nice, large-scale bookstore with most of the brick-and-mortar chains shriveling before our very eyes.

About the only other place I could see as a possible development opportunity would be the I-44 corridor south of the WRWA area. There was talk here on this board a couple of years ago that a "major announcement" about retail in the area being developed, but it obviously never happened. I want to say that was in the 119th/134th area, but I'm not sure about that. The biggest rumor was that Target was going to locate there, which turned out to be bogus. The biggest retail development I can think of in that general vicinity (and I admit its a stretch) is the Crestmarket at SW 104th and May. Would think there's quite a bit of sales tax revenue being lost to Moore and the Tri-City area...

Is the new Outlet Mall that is being built at Council Road and I-40 considered "South OKC"?

Is the new Outlet Mall that is being built at Council Road and I-40 considered "South OKC"?

While technically south of Reno, I don't think it's remotely considered "south OKC" in that context.

Are there new lifestyle centers being built anywhere?

In the suburban pre-2008 context, not really. (If you're asking about the national trends that is)

But that's mostly because suburban retail in general isn't being built anywhere right now.

Going to be devil's advocate here....

The question shouldn't be how can South OKC lure back retail but why did it lose it in the first place. That can be pointed to several facts like changing tastes in retail, growth in MWC and Moore, etc. But the real issue is that the demographics in that part of the world are just not there like they used to be. Yes, I know that south of 89th is one of the biggest concentrations of wealth in the city. But that ship may have sailed given the fact that Moore/19th street retail has pretty much established itself and there is plenty of available space in the many shopping centers randomly scattered about that area. North of 240, the demographics have changed wildy as most people are aware. Compare this to another 70s/80s era retail corridor, Northwest Expressway. While there are definitely shopping centers that are really showing their age, the area in general has stayed intact and will do so as long as the area remains somewhat middle class.

So what should the city do? To be perfectly honest, I don't know. Not that its hopeless, but given this economy and lending enviornment no retailer is going to just plop down somewhere and in this case, the city really has its back against the wall. If OKC really wants to lure retailers back, its going to have to bring some stuff to the table (read: TIF) to make up for any sort of comparative disadvantage with other facts. In the long term, the city really needs to get proactive with revitalizing that area as it has done with areas north of Reno as middle class flight from the inner southside will only increase. Only then when the entire neighborhood is on better footing will the area be a better sell for retail.

To be perfectly honest, its really a shame that the laws in the state regarding revenue collection and dependence on sales tax are so restrictive that a move by Wal Mart across the street can mean the death of important city services. The issue with the southside shows this. I have a feeling in 20 years, folks in Moore will be debating how to revitalize their retail sector because Blanchard and Newcastle are stealing all of their business.

I've got to wonder if the way to go is to follow Midwest City's example - clear out a few blocks along Interstate 35 or Interstate 40, create a TIF and draw up a new master plan for the area.

The Will Rogers site is the only location with an actual implementation plan. The Portland Ave. relocation (the spine for this retail center) is about to start construction very soon. The airport will probably begin trying to market it around as soon as Portland is finished or close to being finished.

Are there new lifestyle centers being built anywhere?
I know that Phase 3 of The Domain here in Austin is starting to move forward, they are building a new phase at Southpark Meadows and a new development is starting just south of Southpark Meadows, we have worked on some expansion schemes at The Hill Country Galleria in Bee Cave (far west side of Austin).

I still feel 240 is the best opportunity for a large scale retail development, to Capitol Hill should be developed along the lines of South Congress in Austin or like a smaller scale South Broadway in Denver.

I'm curious for some ideas or strategies on how people think South OKC should regain its retail, since that is primarily exactly where OKC is loosing sales tax collections. Some people are clinging to Crossroads or I-240 but I think that is just a BAD idea personally. There are better ideas...

What are the options you guys like best?

Along I-240 corridor
A big lifestyle center far south
Big retail area by WRWA
Redevelopment in Capitol Hill area
Something else?

may have to be careful with that one. In Tuesday's Council meeting there was some discussion by Mr. White about what is Capitol Hill. it was his contention that it isn't an area defined on a map but a state of mind or "community". This was in context of Capital Hill Baptist Church wanting to put up a sign at there new location that is far removed from the Capital Hill area. The reason the pastor gave for keeping the name after the church moved from Commerce was the history and connection. While all for that type of thing, it does lead to confusing people. There are examples of that all over town where a business started at a particular location (with the name as part of it), moved elsewhere and kept the geographic name. Then there are those places that purposefully will coop a name such as Bricktown to make people who are unaware that they are located somewhere that they aren't.

I've got to wonder if the way to go is to follow Midwest City's example - clear out a few blocks along Interstate 35 or Interstate 40, create a TIF and draw up a new master plan for the area.

Steve, I think that would be a winner. I also think that they could do that anywhere along Western or 44th which have extremely high traffic counts. During the afternoon rush hour, people would be amazed at how often Western ends up being a stand-still all the way from 25th to 59th. I think that they should put some economic development teeth into the 44th Street masterplan that they still have on file, which called for lots of mixed-use development around the vital intersection of 44th and Western.

There are many decent neighborhoods in that immediate area also. Demographically, crime is dropping in the area (it was pretty bad in 2000 and has been falling since), neighborhoods are improving, and the residential density is the highest in the city. On the other side of I-240 is a large high-income area where a lot of the people still have strong family ties to the inner south side. To that extent, I agree that "Capitol Hill" is a state of mind, but it's a state of mind based on the inner south side, which is kind of cool.

Moore has given Warren Theaters and retailers like Target millions in sales tax rebate incentives. Maybe Oklahoma City should consider a similar program.

About the only other place I could see as a possible development opportunity would be the I-44 corridor south of the WRWA area. There was talk here on this board a couple of years ago that a "major announcement" about retail in the area being developed, but it obviously never happened.
They talked like this was a plan to develop over the next several decades.

Moore has given Warren Theaters and retailers like Target millions in sales tax rebate incentives. Maybe Oklahoma City should consider a similar program.

I think the point with that though is that OKC doesn't need another strip mall, but it needs an area similar to Memorial Rd or 19th Street in Moore for the south half of the city.

I think the point with that though is that OKC doesn't need another strip mall, but it needs an area similar to Memorial Rd or 19th Street in Moore for the south half of the city.

This is already in the works... The planned development along the west side of I-44 will reach from S.W 59th to S.W. 104th... Think 19th Street in Moore on a larger scale. According to Councilman Greenwell it will be the largest development of its kind in the state...utilities are being laid now, developers are lining up and we can expect to see ground breaking in about two years...

This is in no small part being driven by the the loss of sales tax dollars by the city to the success of the retail corridors along I-35 in Moore and Norman...

http://www.okctalk.com/suburban-development-buildings/24497-will-rogers-world-airport-eastside-commercial-development.html

This is already in the works... The planned development along the west side of I-44 will reach from S.W 59th to S.W. 104th... Think 19th Street in Moore on a larger scale. According to Councilman Greenwell it will be the largest development of its kind in the state...utilities are being laid now, developers are lining up and we can expect to see ground breaking in about two years...

This is in no small part being driven by the the loss of sales tax dollars by the city to the success of the retail corridors along I-35 in Moore and Norman...

http://www.okctalk.com/suburban-development-buildings/24497-will-rogers-world-airport-eastside-commercial-development.html

Hopefully this ends up being the kind of development OKC has needed to land much-wanted retailers. I won't hold my breath until it happens though. One good thing is being on I-44, it will be fairly easy accessible from north OKC as well. I-240 or anything in Moore/Norman is kind of a pain to get to if you live in NW OKC.